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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:49 am

    Su-57 ? In syria ? Really ? Is it a new build or one of the prototypes ?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:03 am

    Isos wrote:Su-57 ? In syria ? Really ? Is it a new build or one of the prototypes ?

    Probably just a rumor...
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:08 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:Su-57 ? In syria ? Really ? Is it a new build or one of the prototypes ?

    Probably just a rumor...

    Yeah but it would be so nice to see a video of a su-57 intercepting a raptor
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    Post  calm on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:17 am

    video of landing not interception Very Happy
    https://twitter.com/WaelAlHussaini/status/966456661308248065
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:40 am

    calm wrote:video of landing not interception Very Happy
    https://twitter.com/WaelAlHussaini/status/966456661308248065

    OMG !!!!!!! But can you confirm it is in syria ? Can also be in maks airshow...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:12 am

    Isos wrote:.....
    Yeah but it would be so nice to see a video of a su-57 intercepting a raptor

    Okay, things are getting bizarre but if PAK-YES (lol) really is there it probably means that those internal bomb bays and various new ordinance developed for them will be getting field test over Ghouta.

    We saw bombs with foldable winglets being used by Su-34s as early as beginning of 2016, now might be full test run.

    But definitely no Raptor (or any other) interceptions, no need to give away more cards than you have to.

    Those fresh Su-35​ are most likely extra watchdogs if 57s really are there for test run.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:09 am

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    Post  BKP on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:54 am

    Very surprising development. I assume that they must be already pretty confident in the 57s to do this, which is interesting since they're still prototypes. I was expecting to see the arrival of more AD systems, but this move didn't even enter my mind. Hmm... well, it's still not 100% confirmed.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:03 am

    Very surprising I thought we would have seen mig-35 being tested before Su-57. I would also imagine that the two Su-25 will be SM3 due to the latest events involving su-25. If deployment of Su-57 is true that means only aircraft left to test in the field and in combat would be mig-35 and yak -130 both could easily be deployed this year. The Yak -130 could be tested by either Syrian airforce or Russian airforce and doesn't have to get close could fire off a variety of weapons outside manpad range or in areas where they know there is no threat of manpads. Remember that Syrian airforce is still operating L-39 with fairly good results so a yak -130 wouldn't have problems. Both aircraft can be tested and showcased good potential for export
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:14 pm

    JohninMK wrote:All in that earlier post bar the Su-57 may be now confirmed. Not sure where the top two photos came from. The last link below, to a video of the A-50, appears to be from the same poster as the Su-57 claim.

    Su-25 SM3 with anit-manpad's EW?
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:23 pm

    BKP wrote:Very surprising development. I assume that they must be already pretty confident in the 57s to do this, which is interesting since they're still prototypes. I was expecting to see the arrival of more AD systems, but this move didn't even enter my mind. Hmm... well, it's still not 100% confirmed.

    I never saw an article saying they tried weapons from internal weapon bays. Actually we are not sure that new weapons supposed to fit internaly are ready and we don't know if the old weapons can fit inside the bay.

    Unless an official report, I wouldn't trust this twiter post. Maybe it's only psychologic warefare before a big offensive.
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    Post  calm on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:17 pm

    Video is already geolocated south of Airbase in Latakia. But maybe it is a montare.

    One on the left is T-50-5/6
    https://russianplanes.net/id189834
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    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:30 pm

    A lot of people are scratching their head around the reason(s) for deployment of a couple of pre-production Su-57s in Syria.

    The answer(s) may be very simple:

    Answer 1
    Su-57 is undergoing tests, including air-ground weapons delivery.
    Let's send a couple of Su-57s to test them on terrorist's head rather than on a target range.

    Answer 2
    Su-57 production will start soon and reach squadron service. Pilots and ground crews need to be trained for this plane's arrival. But where are some of the best people? In Syria. Let's send a couple of planes to them so that they can get some training and familiarization before the planes reach squadron service.

    Answer 3
    The Su-57 may carry weapons/systems/capabilities that are unique. Some of those may be beneficial for the kind of war that is happening there. Let's send a couple of Su-57s to give helping hand to the guys in Hmeyyim.

    Answer 4
    Russian and Western aircraft development processes are not identical. The prototype that is still considered in testing under the Russian process may be called combat ready under the Western process. If so, let's send a couple of Su-57s to Syria so that we can paint some of those little red stars on them.

    Oh, and by the way, there is at least one precedent. One of the Su-34 prototypes in 2008 acquired a couple of those small red stars during the 5 day war with Georgia.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:03 pm

    Any news about a Electronic warefare plane send there ? Nati radars will turn on at the moment the su-57 goes in the air, they could analyze the signal. Maybe they will use real capacities of the radars to see how capable is the stealth technology on the su-57.
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    Post  lycantrop on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:21 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:A lot of people are scratching their head around the reason(s) for deployment of a couple of pre-production Su-57s in Syria.

    The answer(s) may be very simple:

    Answer 1
    Su-57 is undergoing tests, including air-ground weapons delivery.
    Let's send a couple of Su-57s to test them on terrorist's head rather than on a target range.

    Answer 2
    Su-57 production will start soon and reach squadron service. Pilots and ground crews need to be trained for this plane's arrival. But where are some of the best people? In Syria. Let's send a couple of planes to them so that they can get some training and familiarization before the planes reach squadron service.

    Answer 3
    The Su-57 may carry weapons/systems/capabilities that are unique. Some of those may be beneficial for the kind of war that is happening there. Let's send a couple of Su-57s to give helping hand to the guys in Hmeyyim.

    Answer 4
    Russian and Western aircraft development processes are not identical. The prototype that is still considered in testing under the Russian process may be called combat ready under the Western process. If so, let's send a couple of Su-57s to Syria so that we can paint some of those little red stars on them.

    Oh, and by the way, there is at least one precedent. One of the Su-34 prototypes in 2008 acquired a couple of those small red stars during the 5 day war with Georgia.

    But isnt it a bit worrying that if something happens with the plane (Manpad/problems with engines) and it crash, unique technologies can get to US hands?
    Im sure they are very curious about the plane
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    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:33 pm

    But isnt it a bit worrying that if something happens with the plane (Manpad/problems with engines) and it crash, unique technologies can get to US hands? wrote:

    If you worry too much and are cautious too much and want to keep your shiny toys safe back home.... then there is not much you can do.

    There is saying: "WHO DARES, WINS"
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:49 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:

    If you worry too much and are cautious too much and want to keep your shiny toys safe back home.... then there is not much you can do.

    There is saying: "WHO DARES, WINS"

    If it crashes the plane will be destroyed everything will burn. You can have access to any technology. Only tye material it is composed. They don't care about their stealth technology going to US as US have already the best stealth technology. All the hardwares and softwares will be burned.
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    Post  Manov on Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:20 pm

    Although a bold move, i think it is not as wild as much people sees it.
    The Israelis have the brand new F-35I, and allegedly, made some missions in Syria. In that theather, it can face and analyse sensors of the advanced flankers, air defense and others, the very best of Russia. Even the US has not deployed them in the theather.
    For the other hand, the Su-57 has passed all kinds of test in Russia against indigenous sensors. I guess the RU mod, thinks it is time to test it in the most covered war scene in the planet, and check how it fares against US, NATO and Israelis systems. Maybe it will drop some bombs here and there, but its main mission will be ELINT and devolpment of advanced tactics. IMHO by the way.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:18 pm


    According to rumors, Su-57 in question are hulls T-50-9 and T-50-11

    These two (old pics):

    Spoiler:

    T-50-9
    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12 - Page 22 215725

    T-50-11
    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12 - Page 22 217663
    They seem to be closest to final product (engines notwithstanding but they are not there to test the engines)
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    Post  franco on Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:05 pm

    Grandmaster does not play a giveaway

    Moscow's decision to send the latest combat aircraft to Syria completely refutes speculations about the allegedly pre-election motivations of the current Russian policy in the Middle East

    "Morning mail" brought sensational news from Syria. "Russia has deployed the fifth generation of Su-57 fighters at its Syrian airbase Khemeymim!" The report was confirmed by sources in the RF Ministry of Defense, accompanied by a video landing of two aircraft, which, in their outlines, fully correspond to this fighter model.

    In addition, it is noted that at the same time, the air force group of the Russian Federation Air Force on the same base was reinforced by four more Su-35 fighters, four Su-25 attack aircraft and, most importantly, an A-50U long-range radar detector, which was recently withdrawn from Syria.

    This news will undoubtedly give all sorts of Internet interpreters a smart excuse to once again pop over the "inconsistency of Putin," who then announces the victorious end of the war in Syria, then again builds up the military grouping there.

    But if you dismiss aside this childish prattle, designed to embarrass the weak brains on the eve of the presidential election, and try to assess the situation in an adult way, it is quite obvious that:

    First: If this message is true, then, in my opinion, it completely fits the logic of the development of the operational military-political situation in Syria and the Middle East as a whole.

    Second: Such a responsible decision - on sending the newest, secret aircraft that barely passed the main stage of state tests, into the combat area, could only be taken at the highest level. That is - directly by the President of Russia.

    Third: This decision of Vladimir Putin, of course, carries a certain, natural for any military situation, risk elements - the newest aircraft can be attacked if not in the air, then on the ground. The same base Khmeimim most recently was attacked by militants.

    Fourth: Given the degree of real risk, it is quite obvious that this decision was made without any consideration of the current political conjuncture associated with the upcoming presidential elections in the Russian Federation. Since the consideration of such considerations would completely eliminate such a solution in principle. Say - why risk at such a crucial moment?

    Fifth: This in turn means that the motivation for such a decision is connected with a completely different, much more thorough military and political logic and long-term goals of Russia as a state. In a sense, this is the most obvious and convincing illustration of the well-known truth, which reads: "The politician thinks about the next elections, the state husband - about the next generations".

    Sixth: Putin was absolutely right when he announced recently the victorious end of the military campaign against IGIL. This grouping is really completely crushed, right up to the time when there were reports that the Americans urgently retrain the surviving "bad terrorists" into "good", to replenish the now-armed armed opponents of the legitimate Syrian authorities.

    Seventh: The recent decision of the President of the Russian Federation to partially withdraw from Syria the Russian military contingent was misinterpreted by many as inside the country. and in the West - as a purely pre-election PR move. In fact, it was rather a clear signal to "American partners" that Russia is ready to close the military phase of the Syrian confrontation and sees the future behind a mutually acceptable political dialogue, both at the local and geopolitical levels.

    Eighth: This signal of Putin in Washington was not heard. Instead of shifting the center of gravity to a peaceful settlement of the situation in Syria, the Americans engaged in sabotage of Russian dialogue initiatives, in particular, as a complete disregard of the Syrian Constitutional Forum in Sochi. And then completely went over to direct seizure and consolidation of entire areas of Syria under the entirely fictitious pretext of helping "freedom-loving Kurds in their fight against terrorism."

    Ninth: The dangerous evolution of American policy in Syria was a direct text indicated a month ago - during a press conference of Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in New York:

    "The fact that the United States is seriously engaged in the formation of alternative authorities on a large part of the Syrian territory is a fact. And this, of course, is absolutely contrary to their own obligations, under which they have repeatedly signed. Including in the UN Security Council - about adherence to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria. It worries us. I have repeatedly discussed this with Rex Tillerson. Inconsistency and lack of principled adherence to what we are negotiating is quite typical for American diplomacy. Including the reasons for the stay of Americans in Syria and the reasons for the actions of the coalition, which they lead. Rex Tillerson told me repeatedly that the only reason (their stay there is Ed.), The only goal is to defeat IGIL. Now they have much more far-reaching plans. Still have to reckon with this. And look for ways that will not allow undermining the sovereignty of the Syrian state " S. Lavrov's press conference following his visit to New York

    The warning of the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs was made practically in plain text and in absolutely definite terms. Washington was given a clear understanding that Russia does not intend to retreat in Syria, that the US should not make wrong conclusions from the peaceful position of Vladimir Putin and that it is necessary to start seriously negotiating. But, as they say - "Ostap has suffered!". Over the past month, the US not only failed to slow down in Syria, but also completely crossed the "red line", inflicting a devastating blow from all weapons on Syrian formations and Russian soldiers from the PMC.

    Tenth: As a result of these actions, the US and its mercenaries in Syria, Russia's attempt to "freeze" military operations in this country, unfortunately, was frustrated. And the response actions promised by Sergei Lavrov in January, have to be done already on the military-strategic "track." Within the framework of which, of course, we should consider the operation of the Syrian army to liberate the capital of the country - Damascus from an old splinter - the pro-American "good terrorists" entrenched in one of its suburbs. And also the arrival in this country of additional combat aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    Which event, in itself, has several meanings. First of all, this is an obvious physical strengthening of the Russian strike component in Syria, which is quite natural given the fact of a new intensification of hostilities. In addition, this is an important psychological deterrent for the same Americans who, after their exemplary meanness under Deir ez Zor, certainly felt a taste for such "exploits" and could try to repeat them. The appearance in Syria of completely unknown to them and therefore unpredictable Su-57 can cool some too hot Pentagon's heads. Especially in combination with a plane, which is clearly not designed to neutralize the primitive military capabilities of local "dushmans."

    And, needless to say, the newest Su-57, too, should not sit too "in the girls." And in this sense the stage of its verification in the real business looks absolutely logical and timely against the background of the completion of the main phase of the state tests and the forthcoming deliveries of the first batches of this aircraft to the troops. And Putin's strategic course to check any military equipment in real combat conditions, so that the army gets a really effective weapon, and not a "cat in a poke," can only be welcomed.

    These are, in brief, the main conclusions that arise in connection with reports of the arrival in Syria of the newest Russian combat aircraft.
    Author: Yuri Selivanov
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:05 am

    Not the first time... the Su-25 itself was tested and proven in the Afghan war too.

    This should be interesting....
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:46 am

    lycantrop wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:A lot of people are scratching their head around the reason(s) for deployment of a couple of pre-production Su-57s in Syria.

    The answer(s) may be very simple:

    Answer 1
    Su-57 is undergoing tests, including air-ground weapons delivery.
    Let's send a couple of Su-57s to test them on terrorist's head rather than on a target range.

    Answer 2
    Su-57 production will start soon and reach squadron service. Pilots and ground crews need to be trained for this plane's arrival. But where are some of the best people? In Syria. Let's send a couple of planes to them so that they can get some training and familiarization before the planes reach squadron service.

    Answer 3
    The Su-57 may carry weapons/systems/capabilities that are unique. Some of those may be beneficial for the kind of war that is happening there. Let's send a couple of Su-57s to give helping hand to the guys in Hmeyyim.

    Answer 4
    Russian and Western aircraft development processes are not identical. The prototype that is still considered in testing under the Russian process may be called combat ready under the Western process. If so, let's send a couple of Su-57s to Syria so that we can paint some of those little red stars on them.

    Oh, and by the way, there is at least one precedent. One of the Su-34 prototypes in 2008 acquired a couple of those small red stars during the 5 day war with Georgia.

    But isnt it a bit worrying that if something happens with the plane (Manpad/problems with engines) and it crash,  unique technologies can get to US hands?
    Im sure they are very curious about the plane

    I would imagine that if there sending the aircraft that their confident that it's working well and not likely to have faults such as engine problems. As for manpads it will be flying well above the range of manpads.

    And we all forget that it's likely leaked/spies have already handed info to usa and it's believed it's going to be offered for export one potential country was south Korea. And it's in joint cooperation with India so even if Russia eliminated risk of leaks at there end nothing to say India hasn't been infiltrated.

    At the end of the day it's not every day Russia gets to combat test weapon systems. I would imagine at least mig-35 will be tested before war is finished
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:04 pm

    Maybe the will use the SU-57 to clear Syria of Israeli and US drones, since it is stealth, they are much harder to track and can just use cannon to mow down the drones.
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    Post  eehnie on Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:10 pm

    Is this verified or is again fake news from Twitter "sources"?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:40 pm

    mnztr wrote:Maybe the will use the SU-57 to clear Syria of Israeli and US drones, since it is stealth, they are much harder to track and can just use cannon to mow down the drones.

    They still have placeholder engines so they are not stealth at this phase

    And there is no way anyone would use experiential aircraft to deal with drones


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