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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:48 am

    medo wrote:Don't forget, it was over Hasakah in north east Syria, which is out of the range of S-400 in Hmeimim and also out of the range of Syrian radar positions in western part of Syria.

    Yup,also VKS planes don't fly over that part since it over ''US zone''
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:57 am

    medo wrote:Don't forget, it was over Hasakah in north east Syria, which is out of the range of S-400 in Hmeimim and also out of the range of Syrian radar positions in western part of Syria.
    Agreed, which is why I left 'other radars' fairly open. We have no knowledge of what, if any, radars are operating over that area or the height of the supposed interception incident. I would have thought that, given the distance to the target and the potentially very hostile airspace and chance of MANPAD/SAM, that some kind of mission monitoring would have been requested by the SyAF from the RuAF, maybe a couple of watching Su-35s.

    We will never know but we can be pretty sure that Russia has deployed serious assets there specifically watching out for the F-22s. It is too good a data gathering opportunity to miss. I would be tracking them from take-off if I was them. We know of some RuAF aircraft using Iran's airspace, there may be others, why not an A-50U for example? More training for a different part of the RuAF!
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:02 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    medo wrote:Don't forget, it was over Hasakah in north east Syria, which is out of the range of S-400 in Hmeimim and also out of the range of Syrian radar positions in western part of Syria.

    Yup,also VKS planes don't fly over that part since it over ''US zone''
    Not true, those Tu-22M3s from Iran did and I seem to remember a strike on Raqqa.

    My understanding is that they do overfly each others 'zones' but they share flight plans.

    par far

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  par far on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:11 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Apparently F-22s flew circles around around SU-24s and possible SU-3Xs and they weren't even aware of it, looks like all that anti-stealth talk was just talk.

    .............................

    Also possible UFO and Godzilla sighting.

    There is no mention of anything other than Su-24 in that article. Getting a bit creative or just bored?
    Its a US comment so don't forget Bigfoot.

    We know the Su-24 in RuAF hands is vulnerable so presumably a same spec plane in SyAF will also be, hence the Su-30/35 escorts. It didn't need an F-22 just a F-16 to down one. By the sound of it those SyAF Su-24s didn't have an escort.

    Sometimes some Americans can be a bit full of themselves. If this invisibly (from the S-400 and other radars as well?) were indeed true it would surely be highly classified by the USAF?


    Do you think the Su 30 and Su 35, would have noticed, if they were being shadowed by a F 22? Would it have come on the Su 30 and Su 35, radars, that they are being trailed by a F 22?
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:24 am

    If they were using their IRST, then yes, they would have noticed those F-22's.  If the F-22's radar would be on, then the sensors on Su-30 and 35 would have noticed them too.  If the plane was flying behind them then maybe not.

    The interception was Su-24's from Syria.  Nothing to do with Russia or Su-30-35 which Alfa is full of shit about.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:56 am

    sepheronx wrote:If they were using their IRST, then yes, they would have noticed those F-22's.  If the F-22's radar would be on, then the sensors on Su-30 and 35 would have noticed them too.  If the plane was flying behind them then maybe not.

    The interception was Su-24's from Syria.  Nothing to do with Russia or Su-30-35 which Alfa is full of shit about.


    Hehe, only mentioned it to see the reaction. Razz

    Also, i didn't know S-400 coverage didn't reach there.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:11 am

    S-400 can only detect possibly around 600km, and that is ideal. Chances are, against something like F-22, will be lot less. People claim the RCS figure of F-22 as being the 0.0001sqm but I call bullshit on that. And if they opened up their bay to fire a weapon, it would light up.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:22 am

    par far wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Apparently F-22s flew circles around around SU-24s and possible SU-3Xs and they weren't even aware of it, looks like all that anti-stealth talk was just talk.

    .............................

    Also possible UFO and Godzilla sighting.

    There is no mention of anything other than Su-24 in that article. Getting a bit creative or just bored?
    Its a US comment so don't forget Bigfoot.

    We know the Su-24 in RuAF hands is vulnerable so presumably a same spec plane in SyAF will also be, hence the Su-30/35 escorts. It didn't need an F-22 just a F-16 to down one. By the sound of it those SyAF Su-24s didn't have an escort.

    Sometimes some Americans can be a bit full of themselves. If this invisibly (from the S-400 and other radars as well?) were indeed true it would surely be highly classified by the USAF?


    Do you think the Su 30 and Su 35, would have noticed, if they were being shadowed by a F 22? Would it have come on the Su 30 and Su 35, radars, that they are being trailed by a F 22?

    Yes. Big difference between a Syrian Su-24MK and the Su-30SM's Bars-R or 35's Irbis-E. Not to mention that the Su-24s would have been in nav mode, or ground scanning. Ideal for a fighter to sneak up on you. The moronic part of the story comes in when the Yanks claimed they circled the aircraft three times... Sure, and at what altitude would that be?

    JohninMK wrote:We know the Su-24 in RuAF hands is vulnerable so presumably a same spec plane in SyAF will also be
    There's actually nothing remarkable about this story. The same goes for the Turkish F-16 ambush. An AIM-9 from behind isn't easy to see for an MWR, and my understanding is that aside from SPO-15, which is the Su-24M's RWR, it doesn't possess a MAWS (or does it use LIP MAW?) against IR threats.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:39 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:If they were using their IRST, then yes, they would have noticed those F-22's.  If the F-22's radar would be on, then the sensors on Su-30 and 35 would have noticed them too.  If the plane was flying behind them then maybe not.

    The interception was Su-24's from Syria.  Nothing to do with Russia or Su-30-35 which Alfa is full of shit about.


    Hehe, only mentioned it to see the reaction. Razz

    Also, i didn't know S-400 coverage didn't reach there.


    First and foremost.. Russia shares Radar information with Syria.
    S-400 radars can detect anything 500km range. So it covers all Syria
    and parts of IRAQ too. all the way to Telaviv and ANkara. It also have setup radars in Aleppo.
    Syria also have pantsirs that can detect F-22. Aside IRAQ and IRAN which also have long range radars shares information with Russia and Syria about US planes.

    So the whole story is fake. there is no way Americans can send F-22
    to Syria without being noticed by any radar. or to Allow Russia capture its signal emissions ,aside of the risk of the plane crashing in Syria.. whether for technical malfunction or for the plane being shot down by a Syrian mig. the monumental scandal that will cause an F-22 being shot down. it will only serve to completely destroy Obama war in Syria and provoke the Exceptional Egos in America to demand either full scale war or leave syria.

    In any Military.. there is something called NATION IMAGE.
    that major powers specially US and Russia will always try to protect.
    This is the reason why Americans do not send B-2 bombers to Syria , an instead use many decades old bombers there. SAme reason why Germany sent the oldest planes they had in
    inventory ,so that if anything wrong happens ,they will not lose much.

    If anyone remembers the F-117 shotdown in Serbia , it provoked a major embarassament
    of Americans there and shortly after the plane was decommissioned. If Syria with Old migs
    with helps of Russian radars ,a happy trigger Syrian pilot shot down two F-22.. it not only will
    provoke the major laugh worldwide at American Military ,and major embarassment and defeat to Americans propaganda of their invincibility. And if that was not bad enough ..it will make it very hard for Pentagon to justify more funding for more F-22 planes if discovered they are not as stealthy as they though and very vulnerable in Russia defended Airspace.

    So it was a fake story. nothing more and nothing else. There are no F-22s anywhere near Syria in any place. This is why i said , 99% of the people in this forum understand absolutely nothing
    of American policy. They are masters of Propaganda. masters of deception. And trying to create a world empire.. and allowing or taking the risk , of their best planes to be shutdown ,is not the way American military will earn respect from its enemies.

    In Military you only earn respect with Force and cutting edge technology.. and nothing else.
    And giving the opportunity to its enemies to try and shutdown their best planes , will be risking
    a lot more than the plane technology being taken.. but also encourage other nations to disrespect American military too.. This will also destroy the potential sales of other American stealth planes.  

    The US gov and NATO will say.. Why spend so much in a F-35 or F-22 ,if Russian radars and combat jets can see them anyway and can be shot down easily?

    So there is a LOT in place in Syria. Is not only a war , but Politics and Business too ,what is in place . If two F-22 are shot down in Syria , people will demand Obama to resign. how about that?  It never happened. No F-22 ever in Syria. Any major humiliation in Syria for American
    military could spell the end of Obama war in Syria. So they are not going to take those risk ,and will instead use their oldest technology instead.


    This is why Ameicans using a Boeing: B-52 bomber in Syria and Not their B2..
    Americans simply don't use their best weapons ,allowing Russia spy on them.
    Wake up.. to have logic is not that hard. Americans are simply Masters of Propaganda
    and Deception and when i say this , people really not remotely close to understand how
    an understatement this is. They recruit an entire team of people to advice of how to deceive
    better the world in their illegal war in Syria and justify their actions. Is by manipulating the truth and manipulating people emotions ,how they do it. They call terrorist moderates.. and if their oil trucks not bombed.. is because there are civilians near..  Rolling Eyes   And they no longer supporting Moderates.. but the "new Syrian army" and "Syrian democratic forces".

    In wars , the truth is the first victim. and this one is not different. Americans simply trying to prepare Public Opinion for when the time comes and they shoot down a Syrian plane. they will claim later it was in "Self defense". So Syria and Russia better be ready for that.. Americans are giving signals of preparing its society for increasing their hostilities against the Syrian Government and start trying to impose a no fly zone there "to protect their soldiers".

    Kerry was 10 HOURS!!! in a meeting with Lavrov..  This is how serious they are in brainwashing tactics. Smiles , Shakes of hands.. Blinks , jokes here and there.. and Im ready ,you are ready , lets do it.. wink. Wink   I tell you this. .Americans are masters of Deception and Propaganda ,and believe it , is not a joke. They hire professionals to be more effective in manipulating people to do what they want.  Basically Kerry asked the same thing in a many different ways to LAvrov and he said no. Assad will not go without elections and Alqaeda and ISIS will continue to be bombed.

    More deception tactics..
    This was the meeting (Jul 14 2016) that was supposed to put an end the war in Syria.

    'I'm ready, you’re ready, let's go!' Kerry sits down for Syria talks with Putin in Moscow

    https://www.rt.com/news/351081-kerry-putin-russia-meeting/

    But what really happened? NOTHING!!!  they agreed on Nothing.
    Kerry simply was trying to influence Putin , with politeness ,good manners to soften its stance in Syria and allow them to peacefully dismember Syria and kick assad, but failed. So Putin is not a traitor , like many claims.. his only crime , and it is a crime..is a major lack of leadership he have ,outside of Russia. Do not understand how to influence americans Government or its society ,neither Europe to become an ally of Russia and not its enemy.

    Russia will do good to hire American Proffessors of Universities of Business schools.
    So Russian government understand better more about leadership. More about Influence.
    That is nothing more than the ability to make people do the things you want. This is Russia
    major problem. Its Government do not understand how to convince AMericans and Europeans
    to be their allies. This is very important ,because is what will make the difference between Sanctions or not. Ending the cold war or not. and avoiding any major conflict with the west.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:26 am; edited 3 times in total

    Resistance

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:54 am

    Kerry is the most evil looking fag on the face of the planet. Just look at his fucked up face.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:43 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Everything Turkey did until now with Syria has been without the support of Iran.

    The people still seems to realize not about the whole ecuation in the area Iraq-Syria-Turkey war. They are three wars, but in fact is only one war:

    Lebanon Shiis+Syria gov+Kurds+Iraq shiis+Iran+Russia

    vs

    Turkey+ISIS+Syrian US backed grups+Arab monarchies+US+NATO (with most of the NATO countries wishing to retire)

    There are evidences of the support to the Kurds. They have been supported by the US since the invasion of Iraq, but the Kurds only begin to succeed in Iraq and Syria, and only begin to be able to fight the Turks in Turkey when Iran has been involved against the ISIS in Iraq. And the Kurds know it. Also, it is obvious where come the supplies to the Western pocket of the Kurds in Syria. Their supplies only can com from the territory controled by the Syrian government.

    Even, despite the Turk invasion, the Kurds in the area have been advancing in the South part of their territory to the West of the Euphrates, and the alone goal of it is to find a contact between their territory and the territory of the Syrian government, to allow supplies from the East (Iraq and Iran), and tu cut the supply lines of the islamists from the north (Turkey).

    The kurds are an important factor in the first coalition. They are just the game changer factor in the area, they are poor, the have not military power by their own, but they are 32 millions of people in the area (as many as the entire population of Saudi Arabia, and about a half of the non Kurd population of Turkey) and their are ready to fight for their freedom. The entry of Turkey in the Syrian scenario only will lead to a reinforcement of the Kurds by their allies, and to the US withdrawn of their support to the Kurds.

    Iran specially is interested in the success of the Kurds outside Iran, because it means good relations with the Kurds in Iran, and because it means the frontline of this war moving appart of their borders. If you take this into account, you will see how the frontilne of this overall conflict today only reachs the borders of Iran in some parts of Turkey, when years ago they had hundreds of thousands of NATO soldiers in their borders, both with Iraq and with Turkey. Iran will help the Kurds in these countries like they are helping to the Iraq shiis. When the Kurds of Iraq reached their territorial goals, Iran will continue supporting the territorial goals of the Kurds in Turkey, and will help to the Kurds in Syria to advance until to have a land link between the territory controled by Syrian government and friendly areas of the East.

    Everyone in this coalition have something to win:

    - Russia wins friendly governments in the area and to reduce the inestability in the Caucasus thanks to the weaknes of Turkey, and as consequence of Georgia.
    - Iran wins friendly governments in the area, including the Kurds, and wins to move the frontline away of its borders.
    - Iraqi shiis win the territory of the Iraqi sunnies (ISIS).
    - Kurds win control of an important part of their territory, and maybe the independence.
    - Syria avoids a certain defeat, and in the long term the control of their territory (except maybe some Kurd land).
    - Lebanon shiis win to be not isolated, and to avoid future attacks by radical sunnies in their own territory.

    The most favourable situation for this coalition is in Iraq, where the Iraq shiis have been able to close the borders with Saudi Arabia, which means all the help to the Syrian sunni opposition, including ISIS must come from Jordan an small and low populated country. Syria will be more difficult and Turkey more difficult still. This war is for long time.

    Whilst agreeing with most of what you say you have left out two things that I think are crucial.

    The first is what does the Iraqi military do once they have secured the Syrian border? Go and help their buddies the SAA?

    Second, you fail to mention the country that arguably has the most powerful/effective military in the area along with by far the biggest and multiple interests in keeping Syria divided and weak and Hezbollah without a land supply route to Iran, Israel. So far they seem to have their activities well below the radar, apart from the occasional air strike which are hard to hide. What do they do if it looks like Assad's Government looks like securing as a minimum the populous west and the south past Jordan to Iraq? Sit back and just watch a nightmare unfold?

    I tend to think that Iraq shiis can help to Syria when they have their territory under control. It is necessary to take into account that in this war there are big movements of population, and it is likely that many Iraqi sunnies move to Syria while the ISIS is losing territory in Iraq. It means more pressure vs the Syrian government. And if later they have to retire from Syria they will move to the Gulf by Jordan.

    Israel is banned from the other coalition, only 2 of the countries of the Arab League recognize Israel, then it is not possible to have them in the coalition. Despite it, Israel is happy.


    Last edited by eehnie on Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total

    Resistance

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:33 am

    Russia army is a joke. Can't locate rebels in Syria. Useless airstrikes in Syria. Russia army is worse than Turkey army.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:50 am

    Wow... and an F-22 can sneak up on an Su-24 then we are seriously underestimating it... it really is a super jet because the su-24 is a state of the art super jet that has full 360 degree radar coverage... does this mean the US will reverse its decision to run away with their tails between their legs when the Russians put S-400s there?
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    Shadåw

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Shadåw on Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:00 am

    My lord, what a kiddie play-ground this forum has become.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:45 am

    282 posts from "Resistance" and he still isn't banned?  This is why cousins shouldn't marry...
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:58 am

    Apparently the Su-24M possesses a MAWS in the form of MAK-UL, seen here, top-center of the fuselage. I am not sure what sort of coverage it offers exactly though, and if there are any extra sensors on the underside or closer to the tail. (I realise this is the recon variant, but other pictures seem to suggest it is aboard the M standard as well).

    Still, an ambush is an ambush, the pilots had very little time to react.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:25 pm

    With all this talk about Syrian jets be intercepted, not once did those F-22 pilots explain what would happen if they shot those planes down....


    ....Yeah that's right those Raptors will go extinct, getting flak jackets, jackets actually made out of flak!!!
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:28 pm

    If the detection range of the S-400 is of 600 Km, Al-Hasakah would be covered not only by the radars in Latakia, also by the radars in Armenia.

    Maybe the true history to be just the inverse? The American planes just being observed with them just being not aware?
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

    eehnie wrote:If the detection range of the S-400 is of 600 Km, Al-Hasakah would be covered not only by the radars in Latakia, also by the radars in Armenia.

    Maybe the true history to be just the inverse? The American planes just being observed with them just being not aware?
    That is a possibility. It would be interesting to hear what these air jocks were expecting the SyAAF -24s to do exactly... Actually the whole article is confusing and has the sense of a story being made out of nothing. The F-22 will of course be able to observe an Su-24 at distance. Were the Americans meaning they followed them within VR? scratch
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:13 pm

    The whole "The max detection range is 600km" is a red herring, did everyone forget that Russia has a OTH radar assets in Armenia? Russia has a CSTO agreed upon unified IAD with Armenia......Are there actually people who think the S-400 complexes based in Syria wouldn't share data with the radar assets based in Armenia lol? Embarassed lol1
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:36 pm


    Just saying it magnum )

    Also interesting to remember this article from february:

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/putin-warns-turkssaudis-russian-tactical-nuclear-response-ground-invasion/#D4DSCswboKOQGC7U.99
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:04 pm

    Also important to remember three facts (the first two succeed against Syria but the last failed) to see who are the allies of Syria in the Arab world:

    Lebanon: Voted against to suspend Syria in the Arab League (2011). Voted against to give the seat of Syria to the Syrian islamic forces (2013 and 2014).
    Iraq: Abstained to suspend Syria in the Arab League (2011). Voted against to give the seat of Syria to the Syrian islamic forces (2013 and 2014).

    (We should add Lebanon to the coalition of Russia, and not only the shiis of Lebanon).

    Who are in the middle:

    Algeria: Voted in favor of suspend Syria in the Arab League (2011). Voted against to give the seat of Syria to the Syrian islamic forces (2013 and 2014).
    Egypt: Voted in favor of suspend Syria in the Arab League (2011). Voted in favor to give the seat of Syria to the Syrian islamic forces (2013). Voted against to give the seat of Syria to the Syrian islamic forces (2014). Change of government in 2013.

    Who was an ally but fall to the Gulf states influence:

    Yemen: Voted against to suspend Syria in the Arab League (2011). Voted to give the seat of Syria to the Syrian islamic forces (2013 and 2014). Change of government in 2012.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/12/syria-suspended-arab-league

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/26/syrian-opposition-appeals-nato-support

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/03/opposition-fail-get-syria-arab-league-seat-2014326144447997621.html

    Resistance

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:34 pm

    LMFAO @ the US Turkey fake coup that fooled Russia AGAIN. Turkey is marching into Aleppo city and taking it over and not a peep from Russia. Had Turkey not did that fake apology and fake coup, Russia would have never allowed Turkey to waltz into Syria.

    Turkey is a NATO country and hostile to Russia.

    Putin is going to bury Russia with his stupidity, I swear to god. Not only will he lose Crimea, he will also lose Syria and Russia and end up like Saddam and Gaddafi.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:47 pm

    Ther first Turkish casualties come fast.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=06d_1472345583

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8c3_1472358507

    Which armoured vehicles are these?

    NATO standards.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #10

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:02 pm

    Media reported on Friday in the forthcoming visit of the Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation to Turkey

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