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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:20 am

    I don't know about you guys, but SAA needs to start setting up brigades (not battalions) from scratch. And by that I mean kit, training and start getting their men organized (clean, shaved and motivated). Right now they're pretty much a zombie of an Army. So it's possible this ceasefire (on those few fronts) will allow them to do that. I also noticed some videos showing enhanced training of their Police, which in my view is another step in the right direction. It would be best if NDF can be slowly converted to a more professional Gendarmerie/Police force rather than a summer camp collection of amateurs.

    If they can add a couple of such Army and/or Interior Army Brigades into the fight this summer, this would dramatically alter the course of the war. Fronts that can benefit from this are Palmyra (vs. ISIS) and Homs pocket (vs. "moderates") which basically cuts gov-controlled Syria in two parts.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:29 am

    KiloGolf wrote:I don't know about you guys, but SAA needs to start setting up brigades from scratch. And by that I mean kit and training. Right now they're pretty much a zombie of an Army. So it's possible this ceasefire (on those few fronts) will allow them to do that. I also noticed some videos showing enhanced training of their Police, which in my view is another step in the right direction. It would be best if NDF can be slowly converted to a more professional Gendarmerie/Police force rather than a summer camp collection of amateurs.

    If they can add a couple of such Army and/or Interior Army Brigades into the fight this summer, this would dramatically alter the course of the war. Fronts that can benefit from this are Palmyra (vs. ISIS) and Homs pocket (vs. "moderates") which basically cuts gov-controlled Syria in two parts.

    Right now they're a mass militia indeed.
    The police stunts aren't exactly encouraging. Because basically there's not what they're supposed to do. What they should do is to start from battalion level training. Also the CF isn't going to last more than a fortnight so there's no time to do that. What is needed is a battalion-level reformation. But this needs to happen elsewhere, because right now, there's no room for that in Syria.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:32 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Right now they're a mass militia indeed.
    The police stunts aren't exactly encouraging. Because basically there's not what they're supposed to do. What they should do is to start from battalion level training. Also the CF isn't going to last more than a fortnight so there's no time to do that. What is needed is a battalion-level reformation. But this needs to happen elsewhere, because right now, there's no room for that in Syria.

    Start battalion-level training sure, but the scope of this re-armament/re-training needs to add effective, efficient Brigade-sized formations on the field. I feel the lack of size/sophistication on deployed SAA units leads to this super slow pace of war. Artillery companies spread and shared all over, scout platoons non-existant, comms units in shambles, EW/jamming is an unknown word, etc. Of course I don't expect them to run armored Divisions like Zhukov, but solid Brigade formations here and there is a happy medium.

    Also reforming their Support/logistics command and with associated units is key in "running the war as a proper Army" with no last-minute hired trucks and buses being put into harms way (see Aleppo-Ithiriya supply line).

    PS. the CF is only applied in 1 or 2 "moderate" locations, I think Homs/Hama maybe one more in Damascus. Nowhere else.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:46 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Right now they're a mass militia indeed.
    The police stunts aren't exactly encouraging. Because basically there's not what they're supposed to do. What they should do is to start from battalion level training. Also the CF isn't going to last more than a fortnight so there's no time to do that. What is needed is a battalion-level reformation. But this needs to happen elsewhere, because right now, there's no room for that in Syria.

    Start battalion-level training sure, but the scope of this re-armament/re-training needs to add effective, efficient Brigade-sized formations on the field. I feel the lack of size/sophistication on deployed SAA units leads to this super slow pace of war. Artillery companies spread and shared all over, scout platoons non-existant, comms units in shambles, EW/jamming is an unknown word, etc. Of course I don't expect them to run armored Divisions like Zhukov, but solid Brigade formations here and there is a happy medium.

    Also reforming their Support/logistics command and with associated units is key in "running the war as a proper Army" with no last-minute hired trucks and buses being put into harms way (see Aleppo-Ithiriya supply line).

    PS. the CF is only applied in 1 or 2 "moderate" locations, I think Homs/Hama maybe one more in Damascus. Nowhere else.

    Again, I agree. But so far the problem stays with the nature of the conflict. Brigades can't actually do anything better than battalions under current circumstances. Most battles are really small and result in steady but low number of KIA/WIA. If there was a rear where to form the back bone of the new SAA, then I'd shut my yap. However the nature of this conflict is really hampering the effective refoundation of the SAA. Politically and militarily the Syrian State is indeed a shadow of itself. This needs to be addressed in the same time as the rearmament.

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:57 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Right now they're a mass militia indeed.
    The police stunts aren't exactly encouraging. Because basically there's not what they're supposed to do. What they should do is to start from battalion level training. Also the CF isn't going to last more than a fortnight so there's no time to do that. What is needed is a battalion-level reformation. But this needs to happen elsewhere, because right now, there's no room for that in Syria.

    Start battalion-level training sure, but the scope of this re-armament/re-training needs to add effective, efficient Brigade-sized formations on the field. I feel the lack of size/sophistication on deployed SAA units leads to this super slow pace of war. Artillery companies spread and shared all over, scout platoons non-existant, comms units in shambles, EW/jamming is an unknown word, etc. Of course I don't expect them to run armored Divisions like Zhukov, but solid Brigade formations here and there is a happy medium.

    Also reforming their Support/logistics command and with associated units is key in "running the war as a proper Army" with no last-minute hired trucks and buses being put into harms way (see Aleppo-Ithiriya supply line).

    PS. the CF is only applied in 1 or 2 "moderate" locations, I think Homs/Hama maybe one more in Damascus. Nowhere else.

    Again, I agree. But so far the problem stays with the nature of the conflict. Brigades can't actually do anything better than battalions under current circumstances. Most battles are really small and result in steady but low number of KIA/WIA. If there was a rear where to form the back bone of the new SAA, then I'd shut my yap. However the nature of this conflict is really hampering the effective refoundation of the SAA. Politically and militarily the Syrian State is indeed a shadow of itself. This needs to be addressed in the same time as the rearmament.


    And tough decisions as well. They will have to let the Kurds go (1st like KRG) and in a sense Assad did just that when he gave away Ahras to YPG yesterday. It's real politik and it's long overdue in Syria.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  franco on Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:46 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Right now they're a mass militia indeed.
    The police stunts aren't exactly encouraging. Because basically there's not what they're supposed to do. What they should do is to start from battalion level training. Also the CF isn't going to last more than a fortnight so there's no time to do that. What is needed is a battalion-level reformation. But this needs to happen elsewhere, because right now, there's no room for that in Syria.

    Start battalion-level training sure, but the scope of this re-armament/re-training needs to add effective, efficient Brigade-sized formations on the field. I feel the lack of size/sophistication on deployed SAA units leads to this super slow pace of war. Artillery companies spread and shared all over, scout platoons non-existant, comms units in shambles, EW/jamming is an unknown word, etc. Of course I don't expect them to run armored Divisions like Zhukov, but solid Brigade formations here and there is a happy medium.

    Also reforming their Support/logistics command and with associated units is key in "running the war as a proper Army" with no last-minute hired trucks and buses being put into harms way (see Aleppo-Ithiriya supply line).

    PS. the CF is only applied in 1 or 2 "moderate" locations, I think Homs/Hama maybe one more in Damascus. Nowhere else.

    I have actually seen a video outlining all your issues and how the Russians are handling them including a 3 month unit training program. I have been trying to get a clear picture of the present SAA and have identified 8 divisions plus 25 brigades / regiments in action. Suspect there maybe up to 10 divisions and 36 or so brigades / regiments. People forget that this army was hanging on by it's teeth when the Russians stepped in.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-civil-war-state-of-the-art-technology-gives-president-assad-s-army-the-edge-a6898741.html

    NOTE: Actually believe the video is the Quiet Russian one at the top of the page.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:57 pm


    Another 4 Su-24M arrived to Hmeim air base according to this article:

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1762696.html



    Julian will need new tampon... lol1
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:11 pm


    ''Strange Syrian Bedfellows: US, Russia Coordinate Attack Against Militants From Turkey''

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/nato-bombs-itself-syria-us-airstrikes-target-isis-militants-coming-turkey/ri13093
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    Dima

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  Dima on Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:27 pm

    franco wrote:I have actually seen a video outlining all your issues and how the Russians are handling them including a 3 month unit training program. I have been trying to get a clear picture of the present SAA and have identified 8 divisions plus 25 brigades / regiments in action. Suspect there maybe up to 10 divisions and 36 or so brigades / regiments. People forget that this army was hanging on by it's teeth when the Russians stepped in.
    An earlier posted report posted here had mentioned that over the years about 3,60,000 terrorists entering Syria/fighting the SAA...and that is a heavy manpower compared to total manpower of SAA.
    Syria still standing as a single nation with its Govt structures intact is due to (other than the majority Syrians supporting their Govt & armed forces) the SAA (& SAAF) fighting against all odds these 4+ years without any direct/full military support from allies.


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-civil-war-state-of-the-art-technology-gives-president-assad-s-army-the-edge-a6898741.html

    NOTE: Actually believe the video is the Quiet Russian one at the top of the page.
    Another good article by Robert Fisk....let me quote few para from that article.

    But what of the Kurds, whose advance southwards has also endangered those rebel supply routes to Aleppo?  The Syrians are grateful for any Kurdish help they can get. But few in the military have forgotten the chilling events of 2013, when retreating Syrians sought refuge with Kurdish forces after the battle for the Mineq airbase. The Kurds demanded a vast tranche of weapons from the Syrian army in return for their men – soldiers for ammunition – in which millions of rounds of AK-47 and machine-gun ammunition and thousands of rounds of rocket-propelled grenades were sought in return for the release of the soldiers.

    But the Kurds wanted to persuade Nusra to return Kurdish prisoners, and offered the senior Syrian officers from Mineq to Nusra in return for the captives. Nusra agreed, but once the Kurds handed over the Syrian officers, the Islamist rebels – who had lost around 300 of their own men in the Mineq battle – at once killed all the Syrian officers the Kurds had given them, shooting them in the head.

    Among them was the acting Syrian commander at Mineq, Colonel Naji Abu Shaar of the Syrian army’s 17th Division. Events like these will not endear the Kurds to the Syrian army in future years.


    Meanwhile, the Syrians continue to lose high-ranking officers in battle. At least six generals have been killed in combat during the Syrian war, allowing the army to proclaim that their top men lead from the front.

    The commander of Syria’s Special Forces was killed in Idlib, and the commander of Syrian military intelligence in the east of the country was killed in Deir al-Zour. Major-General Mohsen Mahlouf died in battle near Palmyra. General Saleh, a close friend and colleague of Colonel “Tiger” Hassan, took on the suicide bombers of al-Qaeda in the Sheikh Najjar Industrial City outside Aleppo a year ago.

    He told me that suicide bombers killed 23 of his men in one vast explosion there. I met him afterwards, and thought at the time that he had adopted a blithe – almost foolhardy – disregard of death.  Just a month ago, he drove over an IED bomb which blew off the lower half of his right leg. These are hard men, many of whom trained in a Syrian military college whose front gate legend reads: “Welcome to the school of heroism, where the gods of war are made.” Chilling stuff.
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    Dima

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  Dima on Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:21 pm

    BM-21 GRAD ‏@bm21_grad Feb 25
    Deir-ez-Zor aid drop by WFP Il-76, escorted by RuAF Su-35 Flankers yesterday

    https://twitter.com/bm21_grad/status/702907772808077312

    Anyone got the full version of this news report/video?
    This is probably that airdrop which went waste due to drifting and cases of failed to open parachutes.

    short_fuze

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  short_fuze on Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:30 pm

    Dima wrote:BM-21 GRAD ‏@bm21_grad Feb 25
    Deir-ez-Zor aid drop by WFP Il-76, escorted by RuAF Su-35 Flankers yesterday

    https://twitter.com/bm21_grad/status/702907772808077312

    Anyone got the full version of this news report/video?
    This is probably that airdrop which went waste due to drifting and cases of failed to open parachutes.

    That video, and a few photos of with the RuAF escort are all I have seen up to today. I then came across this photo of the airdrop taken from the ground. Nice balloons Laughing



    The WDF should call in the professionals (aka RuAF) if (and that is a big if) they want the job done properly. The RuAF dropped 3 pallets with 7 tons each. The WDF appears to have dropped 21 pallets which would inevitably spread over a larger area.



    par far

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  par far on Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:35 pm

    RUSSIAN AIRGROUP AT HMEIMIM RECEIVES REINFORCEMENTS


    http://southfront.org/russian-airgroup-at-hmeimim-receives-reinforcements/



    par far

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  par far on Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:38 pm

    par far wrote:RUSSIAN AIRGROUP AT HMEIMIM RECEIVES REINFORCEMENTS


    http://southfront.org/russian-airgroup-at-hmeimim-receives-reinforcements/




    Four Su-24s, accompanied by an Il-78 aerial tanker, arrived at Hmeimim from the Taganka airbase near Astrakhan. Thus the Hmeimim airgroup now consists of the following:

    4 Su-35S

    4 Su-30SM

    4 Su-27SM

    12 Su-34

    32 Su-24

    12 Su-25

    15 Mi-8

    12 Mi-24

    1 Tu-214R

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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:47 pm

    par far wrote:
    par far wrote:RUSSIAN AIRGROUP AT HMEIMIM RECEIVES REINFORCEMENTS


    http://southfront.org/russian-airgroup-at-hmeimim-receives-reinforcements/




    Four Su-24s, accompanied by an Il-78 aerial tanker, arrived at Hmeimim from the Taganka airbase near Astrakhan. Thus the Hmeimim airgroup now consists of the following:

    4 Su-35S

    4 Su-30SM

    4 Su-27SM

    12 Su-34

    32 Su-24

    12 Su-25

    15 Mi-8

    12 Mi-24

    1 Tu-214R


    What the F***?

    Cease fire wink wink.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:05 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:What the F***?

    Cease fire wink wink.



    Dem Russian soulja bois didn get da memo  lol1

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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  Militarov on Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:09 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:What the F***?

    Cease fire wink wink.



    Dem Russian soulja bois didn get da memo  lol1



    I remember reading about this video, they were so severely punished i couldnt belive
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:17 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:What the F***?

    Cease fire wink wink.



    Dem Russian soulja bois didn get da memo  lol1



    I remember reading about this video, they were so severely punished i couldnt belive

    Israel is too PC when it comes to the image of their soldiers. Never understood it.
    Discipline is one thing, but ffs they are immature conscripts.

    short_fuze

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  short_fuze on Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:53 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:What the F***?

    Cease fire wink wink.



    Dem Russian soulja bois didn get da memo  lol1



    I remember reading about this video, they were so severely punished i couldnt belive

    Israel is too PC when it comes to the image of their soldiers. Never understood it.
    Discipline is one thing, but ffs they are immature conscripts.

    The real IDF



    dionis

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  dionis on Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:50 pm

    par far wrote:
    par far wrote:RUSSIAN AIRGROUP AT HMEIMIM RECEIVES REINFORCEMENTS


    http://southfront.org/russian-airgroup-at-hmeimim-receives-reinforcements/




    Four Su-24s, accompanied by an Il-78 aerial tanker, arrived at Hmeimim from the Taganka airbase near Astrakhan. Thus the Hmeimim airgroup now consists of the following:

    4 Su-35S

    4 Su-30SM

    4 Su-27SM

    12 Su-34

    32 Su-24

    12 Su-25

    15 Mi-8

    12 Mi-24

    1 Tu-214R


    Never heard anything about Su-27SMs in Syria. Any aerial or ground photos?
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:47 pm

    dionis wrote:Never heard anything about Su-27SMs in Syria. Any aerial or ground photos?

    Same here, I only noticed a few as bomber escorts (over Caspian/Iran), but that means they weren't deployed to Hmeimem.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:30 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    dionis wrote:Never heard anything about Su-27SMs in Syria. Any aerial or ground photos?

    Same here, I only noticed a few as bomber escorts (over Caspian/Iran), but that means they weren't deployed to Hmeimem.


    It was long time reported by TASS (and here by me Razz )


    Eight su-34s and a wing the su-27sm3 fighter jets reinforced the air group VC Russia in Syria
    http://vpk-news.ru/news/28123


    Eight bombers su-34 and a wing of fighter su-27sm3 fighter jets have strengthened aviation group VC Russia in Syria, reported today Russian President Vladimir Putin commander of the Russian air group at the airport Hamim Alexey Maksimtsev.
    "Aviation grouping was reinforced by eight bombers su-34 and a fighter wing of su-27sm3 fighter jets, which carried out tasks of defeat of objects in raqqa and Deir-ez-Zor," said the Maksimtsev.

    According to him, November 17 Russian air group has executed 394 sorties.

    Maksimtsev said that Syria is actively engaged in exploration of all kinds, guaranteed to accurately strike on targets of militants. "For the issuing of target designation, monitoring of air strikes and intelligence applied modern unmanned aerial vehicles", - quotes TASS of the commander.

    Commander viagrapromg said that during the massive air strikes destroyed the oil and gas infrastructure, control centres, ammunition depots, training camps of terrorists and factories for the manufacture of bombs and rockets.

    "It helped to disorganize management and significantly undermine the economic capabilities of the terrorist organizations," he said.

    According to Maksimtsev, the conduct of air operations has increased the occurrence of groups of government forces on all fronts, the most successful in the area of Aleppo and in the mountainous area of Latakia province.

    "Russian attack aviation continues the application of massive air strikes. Losses of personnel and equipment no. The morale of the personnel high", - concluded the commander.
    More: http://vpk-news.ru/news/28123
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:58 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    dionis wrote:Never heard anything about Su-27SMs in Syria. Any aerial or ground photos?

    Same here, I only noticed a few as bomber escorts (over Caspian/Iran), but that means they weren't deployed to Hmeimem.


    It was long time reported by TASS (and here by me Razz )

    Articles aside, haven't seen any pics/footage.
    Probably confused them with the Su-30 or -35?

    ult

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  ult on Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:56 pm

    par far wrote:

    Four Su-24s, accompanied by an Il-78 aerial tanker, arrived at Hmeimim from the Taganka airbase near Astrakhan. Thus the Hmeimim airgroup now consists of the following:

    4 Su-35S

    4 Su-30SM

    4 Su-27SM

    12 Su-34

    32 Su-24

    12 Su-25

    15 Mi-8

    12 Mi-24

    1 Tu-214R


    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Bullshit numbers are bullshit.

    4 Su-35S, 4 Su-30SM, 8 Su-34, 12 + 4 Su-24M (we don't know if that is rotation yet) and 12 Su-25SM. That's it. There are no more Russian combat jets in Syria.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:01 pm

    ult wrote:
    par far wrote:

    Four Su-24s, accompanied by an Il-78 aerial tanker, arrived at Hmeimim from the Taganka airbase near Astrakhan. Thus the Hmeimim airgroup now consists of the following:

    4 Su-35S

    4 Su-30SM

    4 Su-27SM

    12 Su-34

    32 Su-24

    12 Su-25

    15 Mi-8

    12 Mi-24

    1 Tu-214R


    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Bullshit numbers are bullshit.

    4 Su-35S, 4 Su-30SM, 8 Su-34, 12 + 4 Su-24M (we don't know if that is rotation yet) and 12 Su-25SM. That's it. There are no more Russian combat jets in Syria.

    Yeap, the Tu-214R is gone home today.
    They need to build more of them so one can be on deployment in Syria at all times.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:27 pm


    russia

    Russian Jets Bomb Nusra Front Near Aleppo to Stabilize Situation - MoD

    The Russian center on Syrian reconciliation said Monday that Russian combat jets have carried out airstrikes against the Nusra Front militant group, which is forbidden in Russia, north of the Syrian city of Aleppo to stabilize the situation.


    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160229/1035552009/russia-syria-nusra-jets.html

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Russian combat jets have carried out airstrikes against the Nusra Front militant group, which is forbidden in Russia, north of the Syrian city of Aleppo to stabilize the situation, the Russian center on Syrian reconciliation said Monday as quoted by the country’s Defense Ministry.

    According to the statement, the Nusra Front has been shelling the Syrian army positions from the Narb-Nafsa settlement.

    "In order to stabilize the situation, the Russian Aerospace Forces carried out missile and bomb attacks against the attacking units of the Nusra Front militants in regions north of Aleppo and attack positions of terrorists near the Narb-Nafsa settlement," the statement reads.

    The center reiterated that no attacks were being carried out against the opposition groups in Syria which had agreed to the ceasefire.

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