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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #2

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    Vann7

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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:04 pm

    Solncepek wrote:

    US officials tell Fox News Russian fighter jets closely approached U.S. predator drones over Syria at least three times in the past week.

    Russian fighter jets shadowed U.S. predator drones on at least three separate occasions high above Syria since the start of Russia’s air campaign last week, according to two U.S. officials briefed on this latest intelligence from the region.

    “The first time it happened, we thought the Russians got lucky. Then it happened two more times,” said one official.

    Both officials said that the incidents took place over ISIS-controlled Syria, including its de facto headquarters in Raqqa, as well as along the Turkish-Syrian border near Korbani. Another occurred in the northwest, near the highly contested city of Aleppo.

    The U.S. military's MQ-1 Predator drone is not a stealth aircraft.

    "It is easy to see a predator on radar," said one official.


    The Russians have not attempted to shoot down any of the U.S. drones, but instead have flown "intercept tracks," a doctrinal term meaning the Russians flew close enough to make their presence felt, according to one official.

    One other official said, “the Russians flew very close, but did not impede the drone flight.”

       “The first time it happened, we thought the Russians got lucky. Then it happened two more times."

       - U.S. official briefed on intelligence


    They also forgot to mention how their best stealth drone was also easy to see
    for IRAN.. and they even captured it.. Laughing So they talk as if Russia did not have the capabilities to intercept their drones
    and that doing that was a matter of "luck" .  Wink
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:06 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Twisted Evil Navy in da house y'all!!! russia

    ''Russian Warships in Caspian Sea Launch Rockets on ISIL in Syria''

    http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151007/1028149460/russian-navy-attack-syria.html

    Caspian, nice!

    did they have that range..??

    Buyan M corvettes are the only ships with cruise missiles in Caspitan fleet... and they use 3M54 Club. Land attack variant 3M14T should have quite significant range, by some reports even around 1500km. But each Buyan can carry only 8 of them and only 3 Club capable ships exist in Caspian fleet... Grad Sviyazhsk, Uglich and Veliki Ustyug carry them to my knowledge.

    'Klub' is the export variant of the missile family that has to meet MTCR standards, the domestic version of the missile family is named 'Kalibr', and the land attack variant has a reported 2,600 km range.
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    Post  Guest on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:25 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Twisted Evil Navy in da house y'all!!! russia

    ''Russian Warships in Caspian Sea Launch Rockets on ISIL in Syria''

    http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151007/1028149460/russian-navy-attack-syria.html

    Caspian, nice!

    did they have that range..??

    Buyan M corvettes are the only ships with cruise missiles in Caspitan fleet... and they use 3M54 Club. Land attack variant 3M14T should have quite significant range, by some reports even around 1500km. But each Buyan can carry only 8 of them and only 3 Club capable ships exist in Caspian fleet... Grad Sviyazhsk, Uglich and Veliki Ustyug carry them to my knowledge.

    'Klub' is the export variant of the missile family that has to meet MTCR standards, the domestic version of the missile family is named 'Kalibr', and the land attack variant has a reported 2,600 km range.

    Its same platform so Club or Kalibr makes no difference its just internal designation, and i clearly stated 3M14T which is domestic version. And 2600km range is basically stated only on Wikipedia, we do not know real range of it whatsoever especially knowing how much it depends on launch platform and payload carried in warhead, there are however documented claims of it being tested on up to 1.500km ranges, to me at this point that means 1.500km range. Only source we have for this 2.600km range which i am abit skeptic about is word of контр-адмирал Сергей Алекминский who claimed so in some interview back in 2012.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/255530.html

    I am not saying it MIGHT not have range of 2.600km, i am however saying sources supporting such number are very shady. We have exact figures released by producer only for export variants, domestic ones we just get random whispers from around.
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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:27 pm

    auslander wrote:
    par far wrote:
    medo wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    zg18 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Buyan M corvettes are the only ships with cruise missiles in Caspitan fleet... and they use 3M54 Club. Land attack variant 3M14T should have quite significant range, by some reports even around 1500km. But each Buyan can carry only 8 of them and only 3 Club capable ships exist in Caspian fleet... Grad Sviyazhsk, Uglich and Veliki Ustyug carry them to my knowledge.

    Nyet tovarisch , two Gepard class frigates "Dagestan" and "Tatarstan" have Kalibr also

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepard-class_frigate

    only Dagestan i think, 1 from 2
    Any ideas why from the Caspian not the Med?

    Because missiles fly over Iran and Iraq to their targets instead over Turkey or other NATO members.


    Could the Russian navy not launch the missiles from the coast of Latakia(just wondering)?


    I think the purpose of these missile launch is to show Iraq(and the world for that matter) that Russia does not need only fighter jets and military helicopters to attack the terrorists, it sends the message that Russia has other options as well.

    In my opinion the launches were from the Caspian for more than one reason. First, every Black Sea Flot ship in the Med has more than one NATO shadow and launching a flight of cruise missiles in the Med would generate huge angst and worry from NATO. Two, launching from the Caspian in essence brought the missiles in from a vastly different angle than would have been expected although I doubt the terrorists in Syria expected a missile attack, especially such a large and diverse attack that hurt them rather muchly.

    Russia is playing this operation by the book as far as politics are concerned and Russia is almost bending over backward to keep things on a relatively even keel and to prevent an accidental altercation between RuAF and NATO air assets.


    Russia have zero need to use Cruise missiles.. You only use them when there is
    an area of denial you can't enter.. or strong anti air defenses.. but Russia airforce can enter in all Syria and terrorist do not have any effective air defenses that can stop Russian Airforce.. The Russian attack from Caspian sea was purely a message to show US and its Coalition that Russia can retaliate the nations attacking Syria (through Terrorist armies) with cruise missiles with lethal precision in any part they coalition are or have a military base .You never use million dollar missile to hit cheap infrastructure. that can be defeated with cheap bombs. that will be like using Iskanders missiles to bomb a terrorist ,when already your airforce can do the same.
    in Short you are wrong. It was a message from Russia to NATO and its middle east coalition
    that Russia can fight back. They could have done the same from land ,that is land launchers of kalibr missiles using the same IRAN-IRAK-Syria route and hit any part of syria or its neighbor countries. So any Invasion of Turkey or Israel or NATO in Syria will need to deal with Kalibr missiles over their heads.  Cool



    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:45 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  mack8 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:28 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    As mentioned earlier, the Russian ships in the Med do not carry these missiles, so no.

    Indeed out of curiousity i looked for details, Moskva and the 3 frigates are old ships, Moskva is armed for anti-air (with the S-300) or anti-ship warfare, while the frigates presumably escort her (they provide ASW primarily and some anti-ship capability), but none have land-attack capability.

    To the more knowledgeable folks, are there any modern ships or subs fitted with land-attack cruise missiles in the BSF or Baltic than can be sent in the Med to possibly attack the rats from that side too?

    PS: I can only find BSF submarine B-261 that could carry Kalibr.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:41 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    How old are you, 15?

    Apparently you are a troll .. if you think Russia is not sending a Big warning to the Zionist friends of ISIS coalition that is illegally attacking Syria in a proxy war ,then you have to be an idiot or suffer a brain dysfunction.

    The Syrian conflict is caused by your "freedom loving" factions ,US,Israel ,Saudis and Turkey that are using ISIS and other terrorist groups to attack Syria and overthrow the Assad Government..

    Dude, WTF??!!?!? No

    Cool it...
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    Post  Guest on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:43 pm

    mack8 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    As mentioned earlier, the Russian ships in the Med do not carry these missiles, so no.

    Indeed out of curiousity i looked for details, Moskva and the 3 frigates are old ships, Moskva is armed for anti-air (with the S-300) or anti-ship warfare, while the frigates presumably escort her (they provide ASW primarily and some anti-ship capability), but none have land-attack capability.

    To the more knowledgeable folks, are there any modern ships or subs fitted with land-attack cruise missiles in the BSF or Baltic than can be sent in the Med to possibly attack the rats from that side too?

    PS: I can only find  BSF submarine B-261 that could carry Kalibr.

    Yasen class with Kalibrs/3M-51 Alfa and Project 636 Varshavyanka also called sometimes "Improved Kilo".
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    Post  JacquesdeMolay on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:47 pm

    Guys, what about american Aegis system?
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    Post  Guest on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:48 pm

    JacquesdeMolay wrote:Guys, what about american Aegis system?

    What about it exacly Smile?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:50 pm


    Kalibr missile overflight russia



    Rumor says it's over Kurdish zone...
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    Post  Guest on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:57 pm

    Smart journalists decided that wreckage of cruise missiles is actually KH59 (X59) coz you know, one of the connectors on the wreckage has X59 written on it. Like it has any connection whatsoever.

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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:58 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Using the Caspian Fleet was mostly due to the element of surprise IMHO. Suppose someone is monitoring flights 24/7 and tips someone off about an incoming strike. No one is going to report an incoming cruise missile on time.


    Any nayo defense equipment ijln Turkey which can intercept russoan cruise missile ?

    Remember that the earth is round and every ~40km distance the earth curves..


    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #2 - Page 22 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6GZkxxKVTODF6vzG3_o1R_YYBm-XA1EyWpcSBlMqp2KAVvgZz

    Radars cannot see across mountains.. what is behind it.. neither under water deep inside.
    So cruise missiles can fly under the radar and hide behind earth surface ,and flying between mountains to cover itself .If you pick a right flight path for the missile and it remain flying low.. it will not be detected by competent radars until the last 40km to 50km distance under ideal conditions that the radars are good and are pointing in that direction. If the one monitoring the missiles are terrorist.. they will not see the missile until half a second of impact.

    So for sure any missile can be intercepted..cruise missiles are more difficult however to intercept for flying low..and its ability to fly inside shadow zones of radars..If Russia wanted to target a NATO military base it will need a few dozens to make sure at least half of them will pass.  With electronic defenses it can be tricky.. if the missiles is jammed ,then it will never hit anything.



    Terrorists have been totally focused on the west and had every scout and spotter looking in that direction. When missiles came from the east they did not even have time to blink before being sent into the upper atmosphere


    ISIS and Alqaeda are using encrypted satellite communications.. such things you cannot create
    them in the caves.. NATO supply that to them.. So they have NATO supplying information of
    Russian airforce movements.. about Cruise missiles ,look above..they can hide under radars
    field of view until they close to the target to bomb. BUt don't expect Russia to use hundreds of those missiles.. because of the cost. i will be surprised in they launch more than 50 in the entire conflict.



    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:19 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:01 pm

    Militarov wrote:Smart journalists decided that wreckage of cruise missiles is actually KH59 (X59) coz you know, one of the connectors on the wreckage has X59 written on it. Like it has any connection whatsoever.

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #2 - Page 22 CQunYnLXAAAY4Rh

    Good God..... very "smart" indeed...
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    Post  Godric on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:17 pm

    I nearly pissed myself laughing at seeing this report ... Washington is really hurting lol!


    CNN InternationalVerified account ‏@cnni
    https://twitter.com/cnni/status/651789090984210433

    Russia could face prosecution for backing Assad, says a former top U.S. war crime official.

    War crimes ambassador: Russia, al-Assad regime vulnerable to prosecution

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/06/world/rapp-syria-amanpour/index.html?sr=tw100715rapp-syria-amanpour0400PMVODtop&linkId=17767559
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:18 pm


    Over 1,000 Militants Surrender To Syrian Army In Last 24 Hours

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/over-1000-militants-surrender-to-syrian-army-in-last-24-hours/210151/

    Never heard about this source before TBH...
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    Post  Godric on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:25 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Over 1,000 Militants Surrender To Syrian Army In Last 24 Hours

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/over-1000-militants-surrender-to-syrian-army-in-last-24-hours/210151/

    Never heard about this source before TBH...

    they are a independent media they reported that the gas attacks in Syria were carried out by Saudi backed Al-Nusra and the missiles (grad rockets) were brought into Syria via a Saudi prince (they mentioned his name) high up in the government
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    Post  Erk on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:39 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Over 1,000 Militants Surrender To Syrian Army In Last 24 Hours

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/over-1000-militants-surrender-to-syrian-army-in-last-24-hours/210151/

    Never heard about this source before TBH...

    At the bottom of the page it says Fars News Agency which is Iran.





    South front update


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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:42 pm

    JacquesdeMolay wrote:Guys, what about american Aegis system?

    Unless a radar can see through stone mountains or deep under water , no system in the world
    will detect a cruise missile flying low ,beyond 50km distance.  So if the question is..can aegis be defeated? yes all defenses system from any nation can be , including NATO and Russia air defenses.. If a warship have 100 anti air missiles.. and the enemy launch 101 missiles.. the last one will enter.. in the best case for the defender.

    However counter electronics can be a game changing thing.. if it can interrupt the guidance of missiles and blind it ,it will not hit ever any intended target.  All this means that nobody knows
    for sure how any defense/offense will work until it actually happen.. Air defenses can be overwhelmed and missiles fly low to hide from radars and missiles can be jammed or fooled by decoys. The surprise factor is probably the best weapon to defeat any system in the world.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:55 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:Using the Caspian Fleet was mostly due to the element of surprise IMHO. Suppose someone is monitoring flights 24/7 and tips someone off about an incoming strike. No one is going to report an incoming cruise missile on time.


    Any nayo defense equipment ijln Turkey which can intercept russoan cruise missile ?

    Remember that the earth is round and every ~40km distance the earth curves..


    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #2 - Page 22 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6GZkxxKVTODF6vzG3_o1R_YYBm-XA1EyWpcSBlMqp2KAVvgZz

    Radars cannot see across mountains.. what is behind it.. neither under water deep inside.
    So cruise missiles can fly under the radar and hide behind earth surface ,and flying between mountains to cover itself .If you pick a right flight path for the missile and it remain flying low.. it will not be detected by competent radars until the last 40km to 50km distance under ideal conditions that the radars are good and are pointing in that direction. If the one monitoring the missiles are terrorist.. they will not see the missile until half a second of impact.

    So for sure any missile can be intercepted..cruise missiles are more difficult however to intercept for flying low..and its ability to fly inside shadow zones of radars..If Russia wanted to target a NATO military base it will need a few dozens to make sure at least half of them will pass.  With electronic defenses it can be tricky.. if the missiles is jammed ,then it will never hit anything.



    Terrorists have been totally focused on the west and had every scout and spotter looking in that direction. When missiles came from the east they did not even have time to blink before being sent into the upper atmosphere


    ISIS and Alqaeda are using encrypted satellite communications.. such things you cannot create
    them in the caves.. NATO supply that to them.. So they have NATO supplying information of
    Russian airforce movements..  about Cruise missiles ,look above..they can hide under radars
    field of view until they close to the target to bomb. BUt don't expect Russia to use hundreds of those missiles.. because of the cost. i will be surprised in they launch more than 50 in the entire conflict.


    Given that the US has satellites whose sole function is spotting missile launches in Russian controlled areas, there are long range NATO radars in eastern Turkey and an AWACS over northern Iraq, there must be a pretty good chance that US/NATO was tracking them most of the way, especially as there was 26 of them with a flight time of well over an hour.

    Plus we have no idea what is actually happening in reality between CENTCOM and the RuAF in terms of interchange of information like flight plans. To think that the Russians would launch such a barrage without warning the US is I think, naive. On the other hand it is probably highly likely that all they told them was that they were launching them and that they were expected to cross the Syrian border at a particular time.

    I agree with your assessment that this is a warning shot plus sales demo. What would be really impressive is if the exercise was repeated in a couple of days, showing that the RuN had reloads ready to go.
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:18 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    Seven decades and four big fleets...and in the end it is little Caspian flotilla that has taken the first scalp...  love

    Life is strange indeed. thumbsup
    I was also thinking that. Caspian Flotilla the least likely to ever see any action, and now.....

    Still rather surprised this did not come from the ships in the Mediterranean

    This reminds me back in Ukraine shindig when auslander kept saying that we should "ignore shiny object in one hand and focus on what other hand is doing... " or something like that.

    Also:

    Both Su-34 and Buyan-M will be hot items this Christmas shopping season... thumbsup russia

    Auslander was spot on with that, only we all focused on ukraine, not giving a moments thought to the fact that this applies to russia just as much. We all thought we knew what russia was up to with ukraine, and completely missed what they were planning with their other hand behind their back.

    Kudos to putin for pulling such a huge move completely unexpectedly again, we thought the crimea stunt was slick, but this is much bigger yet its gone so much smoother.

    The west have painted themselves into a corner much like the ukraine regime has with regards to russia, and afe already looking incredibly stupid because of it. Maybe im getting carried away, but this feels to me like a huge moment in geopolitics. Many dont realise it yet, but this is the start of a new era, and its up to the west how it wants to engage witht he new reality. One things for wure however, is that the old rules dont apply anymore.





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    Post  JacquesdeMolay on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:31 pm

    And i think Russians just answer to Zbigniew Brzezinski which said that US should attempt to disarm Russians in Syria.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:38 pm

    JacquesdeMolay wrote:And i think Russians just answer to Zbigniew Brzezinski which said that US should attempt to disarm Russians in Syria.
    Hi and welcome, have you put a post in the introduction thread yet?
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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:39 pm

    A video of Lebanon prisons and their  reforms program to former ISIS terrorist pirat


    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=001_1439590594


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Guest on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:40 pm

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #2 - Page 22 CQvdGsQWEAQO0Fh

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    Source: https://twitter.com/NathanPatin/status/651859206350467073
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    Post  OminousSpudd on Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:00 pm

    The guy's hat, it fits perfectly! Cool

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