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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:57 pm

    medo wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    medo wrote:
    par far wrote:Do you guys think that Russia will do air strikes inside Syria using Russian air force fighter jet?

    I doubt, if they send some pilots, they will fly Syrian Su-24M and MiG-29 planes. I think, they are expanding Latakia airport to provide more supplies through the air, or when Syria will fall, to evacuate as much Syrian soldiers as possible I think Syria will fall to ISIS and NATO next year and even Russian and Iranian help could not prevent it. Syrian army is running out of everything, specially troops and on the other side is a whole NATO and gulf monarchies. As Vanga said, Syria will fall at the feet of the winner, but this will not be the winner. After the fall of Syria, big war between east and west will start. Anyway, fall of Syria will bring destruction to Europe and this will start next year. Those refugees are not all refugees.

    Do you have exact numbers?  Last I checked, Assad still controls 1/3 of the country and has all access to the med.  You cannot block the Bosphorus due to agreements and if Turkey decides to break those agreements, expect a shitstorm you wouldn't believe.

    I have a different theory.  My theory is that Russia will help Assad build a new Syria, separate from the other Syria.  A Syria where he still controls and has power.  That Syria would eventually grow with the number of secular people moving there.  But all in all, he isn't running out of weapons as Russia and Iran have both been sending weapons.  Hezbollah fighters are still in Syria fighting as well.  I suspect their numbers are still quite high.

    Few months ago Assad himself said, that Syrian army already lost half of its soldiers and they control less and less territory, where they could mobilize more reserves. Even if Turkey will not close Bosphor, NATO could install naval blockade, that russian ships could not enter to Syrian port. NATO also control Iraqi air space under the disguise of attacks on ISIS. US decided to stop russian help to Syria and they could do this, because all neighbor states are US allies and many are NATO members on the route. Against Syria is not only ISIS, but whole NATO. Syria simply doesn't have resources to last for another year. Hezbollah is too small and will not be enough, Russia and Iran are too far away and have no border contact with Syria, what means ISIS on the ground and NATO in the air could prevent their supplies through Iraq.

    This is difficult to say, but Syria will fall in coming months. They fight bravely for four years for their country and supplies comming to the last day possible only show, that Iran and Russia didn't turn their backs to Syria and betray them. Syria is encircled by the enemies and Assad will soon have to leave Syria or he will face the same destiny as Gadafi. Syrian army will have to leave Damask as soon as possible and move to Latakia, that they will not bu cut from Mediteranean coast. From there Russian and maybe even Chinese ships could evacuate remains of Syrian army, which will be later able to return to Syria. Question now is only, how much of Syrian army could be saved for war after the fall of Syria.

    What blockade? You think NATO would try to stop Russian ships going somewhere in international or Syrian waters?

    I doubt Syria will fall soon, they're holding the line after all, even if they don't have the resources to take all their territory back.

    It probably won't be necessary to rely on supply via the Mediterranean either; as mentioned here already, Iraq is completely in debt to Iran and is subject to its influence, moreover, American demands or not - but blocking Russian transports to Syria would go against its interests in every single way; not only in fostering strong ties with Russia, but even more importantly for the sake of its own survival - Russian support to Assad goes to fight against the very same enemy that Iraq itself is fighting; only from the other side. If Assad falls, ISIS can quickly absorb/conquer the smaller groups in Syria and would then be able to turn its full attention and jihadist horde East against Iraq - plunging the later into a desperate situation.

    I hardly think that Iraq would go against its very own survival interests in such a fundamental way, no matter what US demands are put forth.

    Hence the Mozdok-Iran-Iraq-Syria air corridor ought to be fine for the purpose.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  Militarov on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:05 am

    "Russia's Defense Ministry publishes pics of humanitarian aid it delivered on An-124 to Syria yesterday."

    Source, tweet by Yury Barmin (Analyst on Russia | Russia's strategy in the Middle East | Ex-USSR | CIS | Interested in the Gulf | Previously Cambridge University):

    https://twitter.com/yurybarmin/status/642702499451940864

    "Interestingly, MoD's statement says they also sent equipment to set up a tent camp for 1,000 refugees in Latakia."

    "Earlier Western intel said that Russia assembled prefab buildings for 1,000 military specialists in Latakia?Did they mean this refugee camp?"

    https://twitter.com/yurybarmin/status/642703223875350528

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:10 am


    I believe that Russian involvement is about improving Syrian Army's training/tech levels and adding some very large amount of firepower to the mix in the form of either RU Air Force (unlikely IMO) or by facilitating and supporting Syrian AF operations via improved infrastructure and organization.  

    I think that we will soon see Syrians fielding stuff like TOS-1 MRLS, thermobharic bombs and similar goodies.

    But like Python said, this will be about holding the line and maybe clearing out terrorist holdouts in government zone, not about retaking lost territory.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  max steel on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:14 am

    U.S. and Russian Forces in Syria Aren’t Talking To Each Other  



    http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2015/09/us-and-russian-forces-syria/120860/



    Seeing how they mentioned the placement of an SA-22 I would not be surprised if the Russians are putting them there for the purposes of testing out their hardware on U.S. and coalition aircraft. By testing I do not mean shooting down aircraft, but measuring signatures of aircraft to improve weaponry.


    I disapprove all the theories suggesting Syria will get divided. No chance at all , it'll create a vaccum rather .
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    Max Italy

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  Max Italy on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:50 am


    http://italian.irib.ir/notizie-in-breve/item/198964-siria,-atterrati-2-aerei-russi-con-aiuti-umanitari

    two AN from Russia finally landed in Latakia... does this mean Iraq airspace is definively open to Russian cargos? Cool
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:05 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    But like Python said, this will be about holding the line and maybe clearing out terrorist holdouts in government zone, not about retaking lost territory.

    I didn't say that Razz

    mutantsushi

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  mutantsushi on Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:43 am

    medo wrote:NATO could install naval blockade, that russian ships could not enter to Syrian port. NATO also control Iraqi air space under the disguise of attacks on ISIS. US decided to stop russian help to Syria and they could do this, because all neighbor states are US allies and many are NATO members on the route. Against Syria is not only ISIS, but whole NATO.
    NATO does not "control" Iraqi airspace, although they operate in it and coordinate to enable that.
    Point of evidence:
    US called on Iraq to stop Iranian flights to Syria.  If they controlled the airspace, they would not need to ask.  In the event, Iraq did not comply and the flights continued.  US/NATO have sanctions against Iran including individuals such as IRGC Gen. Soleimani, who visits Iraq and flies thru it with no problem.
    The "whole NATO" is not dead-set against Assad, as evidenced by NATO members Spain, Germany, I believe Italy all specifically calling for cooperation with Assad and Syrian government against terrorists.  Greece allowed Russian flights to Syria thru it's airspace, directly against US request.  I saw a flight tracker indicating that Russia even sent a flight over Poland and Hungary and Greece on to Syria.  
    So I get it, you don't like NATO.  But as it happens, reality is a bit more complicated than cartoon scenarios...
    And it happens, less confortable to the US/NATO agressors you would be opposed to, which policy is not even backed by all NATO allies.


    Last edited by mutantsushi on Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:33 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    But like Python said, this will be about holding the line and maybe clearing out terrorist holdouts in government zone, not about retaking lost territory.

    I didn't say that Razz

    In that case, me so sorry cry

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:35 am

    medo wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    medo wrote:
    par far wrote:Do you guys think that Russia will do air strikes inside Syria using Russian air force fighter jet?

    I doubt, if they send some pilots, they will fly Syrian Su-24M and MiG-29 planes. I think, they are expanding Latakia airport to provide more supplies through the air, or when Syria will fall, to evacuate as much Syrian soldiers as possible I think Syria will fall to ISIS and NATO next year and even Russian and Iranian help could not prevent it. Syrian army is running out of everything, specially troops and on the other side is a whole NATO and gulf monarchies. As Vanga said, Syria will fall at the feet of the winner, but this will not be the winner. After the fall of Syria, big war between east and west will start. Anyway, fall of Syria will bring destruction to Europe and this will start next year. Those refugees are not all refugees.

    Do you have exact numbers?  Last I checked, Assad still controls 1/3 of the country and has all access to the med.  You cannot block the Bosphorus due to agreements and if Turkey decides to break those agreements, expect a shitstorm you wouldn't believe.

    I have a different theory.  My theory is that Russia will help Assad build a new Syria, separate from the other Syria.  A Syria where he still controls and has power.  That Syria would eventually grow with the number of secular people moving there.  But all in all, he isn't running out of weapons as Russia and Iran have both been sending weapons.  Hezbollah fighters are still in Syria fighting as well.  I suspect their numbers are still quite high.

    Few months ago Assad himself said, that Syrian army already lost half of its soldiers and they control less and less territory, where they could mobilize more reserves. Even if Turkey will not close Bosphor, NATO could install naval blockade, that russian ships could not enter to Syrian port. NATO also control Iraqi air space under the disguise of attacks on ISIS. US decided to stop russian help to Syria and they could do this, because all neighbor states are US allies and many are NATO members on the route. Against Syria is not only ISIS, but whole NATO. Syria simply doesn't have resources to last for another year. Hezbollah is too small and will not be enough, Russia and Iran are too far away and have no border contact with Syria, what means ISIS on the ground and NATO in the air could prevent their supplies through Iraq.

    This is difficult to say, but Syria will fall in coming months. They fight bravely for four years for their country and supplies comming to the last day possible only show, that Iran and Russia didn't turn their backs to Syria and betray them. Syria is encircled by the enemies and Assad will soon have to leave Syria or he will face the same destiny as Gadafi. Syrian army will have to leave Damask as soon as possible and move to Latakia, that they will not bu cut from Mediteranean coast. From there Russian and maybe even Chinese ships could evacuate remains of Syrian army, which will be later able to return to Syria. Question now is only, how much of Syrian army could be saved for war after the fall of Syria.

    It is true they lost a lot of territory, but do not forget that they also gained back some territory and holding their positions. Doesn't help when Israel and US bombs their soldiers positions. But they still have Hezbollah and Iranian servicemen also providing assistance. As long as the supplies come in, as well as training, they will be fine. Something I heard was that it took Russia a while to setup all of these supplies for Syria because Syria wanted to go the Iranian route rather. After it proved to have failed, they decided to go Russia's route. At least this is what I have read on Syrian observer (or whatever it is called). There is still a chance. Especially with a possibility of splitting Syria up to an Assad area and the rest a chaotic hellhole.

    mutantsushi

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  mutantsushi on Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:11 am

    Also, even according to "rebel" friendly SOHR, ~2/3 of "rebel" deaths in last year are FOREIGN FIGHTERS.
    That means that the local base of armed rebels has dried up more than for SAA.
    (albeit the category of civilian deaths is somewhat questionable, when it is like 3/4 males, those likely are not all civilians)

    There is also the split in jihadi/rebel forces, ISIS, Nusra, Ahrar, and they can kill plenty of each other on their own.
    ISIS is the strongest at the moment, but their Iraqi front seems to be slowly being rolled back.
    At some point it is likely that Iraqi forces (army or Hashd) will enter Syria to engage ISIS at that front.
    But even in current scenario, ISIS is not able to confront Kurds bordering their "core areas" around Raqqa.

    SAA has demonstrated skill in tactical withdrawals, killing much more enemy than it's own deaths.
    Hezbollah (Leb) is still all in, in fact recently indicated their availability in all fronts, i.e. beyond the Leb. frontier area.
    Their operations in the frontier area are largely wrapping up now, which will free troops for other fronts.
    They have been training Aoun affiliated Christian militia in Lebanon, who likewise may join fight in Syria.

    And not only are significant sectors of NATO openly calling for allying with Assad against jihadis,
    (also note the withdrawal of SAM units from southern Turkey by many NATO countries)
    but it seems within the Southern Front, following recent failures, they are now speaking of political solution.
    Again, Assad has been very adept in amnesties which take tired and disillusioned local rebels out of the fight.

    So if Russia and Iran are increasing support (possibly including Iran spending it's windfall in released funds, post sanctions)
    to include UAVs, strike aircraft, artillery and rockets, direct fire armored vehicles, as well as intelligence support...
    Rather than defeat, I would rather be talking about victory in 2 years time span.
    Certainly the idea that Assad will "fall" in "the coming months" seems absurdly far fetched.
    I mean, NATO/Israeli fanatacists have been talking that way for years now, but even they have shut up.
    Their last gasp seems to be one more half-hearted push for NATO attack against regime, as if they can do it now when they couldn't before.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:51 am

    medo wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    medo wrote:
    par far wrote:Do you guys think that Russia will do air strikes inside Syria using Russian air force fighter jet?

    I doubt, if they send some pilots, they will fly Syrian Su-24M and MiG-29 planes. I think, they are expanding Latakia airport to provide more supplies through the air, or when Syria will fall, to evacuate as much Syrian soldiers as possible I think Syria will fall to ISIS and NATO next year and even Russian and Iranian help could not prevent it. Syrian army is running out of everything, specially troops and on the other side is a whole NATO and gulf monarchies. As Vanga said, Syria will fall at the feet of the winner, but this will not be the winner. After the fall of Syria, big war between east and west will start. Anyway, fall of Syria will bring destruction to Europe and this will start next year. Those refugees are not all refugees.

    Do you have exact numbers?  Last I checked, Assad still controls 1/3 of the country and has all access to the med.  You cannot block the Bosphorus due to agreements and if Turkey decides to break those agreements, expect a shitstorm you wouldn't believe.

    I have a different theory.  My theory is that Russia will help Assad build a new Syria, separate from the other Syria.  A Syria where he still controls and has power.  That Syria would eventually grow with the number of secular people moving there.  But all in all, he isn't running out of weapons as Russia and Iran have both been sending weapons.  Hezbollah fighters are still in Syria fighting as well.  I suspect their numbers are still quite high.

    Few months ago Assad himself said, that Syrian army already lost half of its soldiers and they control less and less territory, where they could mobilize more reserves. Even if Turkey will not close Bosphor, NATO could install naval blockade, that russian ships could not enter to Syrian port. NATO also control Iraqi air space under the disguise of attacks on ISIS. US decided to stop russian help to Syria and they could do this, because all neighbor states are US allies and many are NATO members on the route. Against Syria is not only ISIS, but whole NATO. Syria simply doesn't have resources to last for another year. Hezbollah is too small and will not be enough, Russia and Iran are too far away and have no border contact with Syria, what means ISIS on the ground and NATO in the air could prevent their supplies through Iraq.

    This is difficult to say, but Syria will fall in coming months. They fight bravely for four years for their country and supplies comming to the last day possible only show, that Iran and Russia didn't turn their backs to Syria and betray them. Syria is encircled by the enemies and Assad will soon have to leave Syria or he will face the same destiny as Gadafi. Syrian army will have to leave Damask as soon as possible and move to Latakia, that they will not bu cut from Mediteranean coast. From there Russian and maybe even Chinese ships could evacuate remains of Syrian army, which will be later able to return to Syria. Question now is only, how much of Syrian army could be saved for war after the fall of Syria.

    You are reading too much western media and forums.

    Assad holds the major cities and population centers (Damascus, Latakia, Homs, Hama, Tartus etc.) and part of Aleppo.
    The areas under control of the various rebels and ISIS are mostly rural (smaller towns and villages) and large swaps of desert.
    All the minorities, Alawite, Shiite, Druze, Christian, Armenian etc are with the government.
    Kurds are not with the government but are against ISIS.
    A large portion of the Sunnis are also with the government.

    A lot of the jihadi/rebel manpower is foreign.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  medo on Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:49 am

    I would like to share your optimism, but fact is, that Syria is encircled by enemies and that supplies from Iran and Russia could only come by the air and by the sea. Last pushes from the US to prevent those supplies show, how vulnerable they are. The only solution for Syria is strong offensive against ISIS in Iraqi front. Shia part of Iraq have a long border with Iran, so no problem to send there troops and equipment. Iraq should mobilize large shia army units, together with Iranian volunteers, Russia and Iran should send some squadrons of fighter bombers for air support and the main strike must be in direction of Syrian border and further to reach Syrian army. Ground connection from Iran to Syria will save Syria. But as you know, such bridge will be vulnerable to attacks from north (ISIS and Turkey) and south (KSA).
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    Solncepek

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  Solncepek on Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:43 pm

    Moscow is sending an advanced anti-aircraft missile system to Syria, two Western officials and a Russian source said, as part of what the West believes is stepped-up military support for embattled President Bashar al-Assad.

    The Western officials said the SA-22 system would be operated by Russian troops, rather than Syrians. The system was on its way to Syria but had not yet arrived.

    "This system is the advanced version used by Russia and it's meant to be operated by Russians in Syria," said one of the sources, a Western diplomat who is regularly briefed on U.S., Israeli and other intelligence assessments.

    Two U.S. officials separately confirmed the information. The second U.S. official said the United States had indications that, although the entire system had not arrived, some control system components for the SA-22 had been positioned at an airfield near Latakia, an Assad stronghold.

    The second U.S. official said the system may be part of a Russian effort to bolster defenses at the airfield.

    The Russian source, who is close to the Russian navy, said the delivery would not be the first time Moscow had sent the SA-22 system, known as Pantsir-S1 in Russian, to Syria. It had been sent in 2013, the source said.

    "There are plans now to send a new set," the source said, without detailing how far along the process was.

    However, the Western diplomat said the version of the SA-22 on its way to Syria was newer than previous missile systems deployed there.

    Syrian officials could not be reached for comment.

    The United States has been leading a campaign of air strikes in Syrian air space for a year, joined by aircraft from European and regional allies including Britain, France, Jordan and Turkey. U.S. forces operating in the area are concerned about the potential introduction of the weapon, the diplomat said.

    U.S. officials say they believe Moscow has been sending troops and equipment to Syria, although they say Russia's intentions are not clear.

    Lebanese sources have told Reuters that Russian troops have begun participating in combat operations on behalf of the Assad government. Moscow has not commented on those reports.

    Speaking at a news conference in Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Russia was sending military equipment to Syria to help the Assad government combat Islamic State fighters, and had sent experts to help train the Syrian army to use it.

    However, the dispatch of advanced anti-aircraft missiles would appear to undermine that justification, since neither Islamic State nor any other Syrian rebel group possesses any aircraft.

    Lavrov also said coordination was needed between Russia's military and the Pentagon to avoid "unintended incidents" around Syria. Russia was conducting pre-planned naval drills in the eastern Mediterranean, he said.

    This year has seen momentum shift against Assad's government in Syria's 4-year-old civil war, which has killed 250,000 people and driven around half of Syria's 23 million people from their homes.

    An ally of Damascus since the Cold War, Moscow maintains its only Mediterranean naval base at Tartous on the Syrian coast, and protecting it would be a strategic objective.

    Recent months have also seen talk of a new role for outside forces in Syria, with NATO-member Turkey proposing the creation of a "safe zone" free from both Islamic State and government forces near its Syrian border.

    Even if Russians operated the missiles and kept them out of the hands of the Syrian army, the arrival of such an advanced anti-aircraft system could also unsettle Israel, which in the past has bombed sophisticated arms it suspected were being handed to Assad's Lebanese guerrilla allies, Hezbollah.

    "In the Middle East you never know what will happen. If the Russians end up handing it (SA-22) over to the Syrian military I don't think the Israelis would intervene but they would go bananas if they see it heading towards Hezbollah in Lebanon," the diplomatic source said.

    An Israeli military spokesman declined to comment on the missile system. A senior Israeli defense official briefing reporters on Thursday said Israel was in contact with Moscow and would continue its policy of stopping advanced weapons reaching Hezbollah.

    "We have open relations with the Russians who have come to save Assad in the civil war. Along with this, we will not allow our sovereignty to be compromised or the transfer of advanced or chemical weapons (to Hezbollah). We are following the developments and keeping open channels with Moscow."
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:19 pm

    Bit of a quandary now in Washington. This is a couple of paras from the article

    Russian and American strategists are openly divided when it comes to ideas on how to crush ISIL once and for all. In its regular press briefing Friday, the Pentagon noted that while the US would "welcome constructive anti-ISIL efforts by Russia…it can't start with, and it can't be a function of, continued support to the Assad regime."

    Lavrov offered a response Sunday, in an interview for Russian television. The foreign minister noted that the anti-ISIL coalition would be more efficient in its anti-ISIL campaign if it cooperated with Damascus, stating that air strikes will never suffice, and that if the coalition's "goal is to prevent the consolidation of Iraqi and Syrian territories as the heartland of an ISIL-promoted caliphate, they should focus on helping those who are fighting these rebels on the ground –the Iraqi army, the Iraqi Kurds, the Syrian army and Syrian Kurdish militias." He added that attempts to withdraw "the Syrian army from the fight against the Islamic State" would be "absurd."


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150913/1026947433/russia-us-syria-military.html#ixzz3ldzKfV9v

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:47 pm

    Germany (meaning EU will follow) wants to work with Russia on Germany, news reports.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:00 pm

    Lavrov pointing the finger, diplomatically of course

    "Lavrov: Russia has information that the US knows the position of the IS, but does not bomb them"

    Russia has information that the US know the specific location points of the "Islamic State" (extremist organization banned in Russia), but did not give an order to strike on the positions "of the IS," said Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

    In the program "Sunday times" on "Channel 1" Lavrov said that the US government "was not originally very careful in creating a coalition, or conspired towards goals that were not the declared ones." According to the foreign minister, the coalition was created spontaneously, "within just a few days it was announced that it includes a number of countries and then begun strikes."

    Lavrov said that the analysis of aviation operations in countries included in the coalition, "creates a strange impression," - as if in addition to fighting "the IS" "there is something else which is a concern of the coalition." The minister said: "I hope not to disappoint anyone in saying that some of our colleagues from the incoming coalition of countries have information on where exactly and on what positions are "IS" or other subdivisions, and the commander of the coalition (the United States ) does not give consent to striking them. "

    http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/lavrov-us-knows-isis-positions-refuses.html
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:46 pm

    medo wrote:I would like to share your optimism, but fact is, that Syria is encircled by enemies and that supplies from Iran and Russia could only come by the air and by the sea. Last pushes from the US to prevent those supplies show, how vulnerable they are. The only solution for Syria is strong offensive against ISIS in Iraqi front. Shia part of Iraq have a long border with Iran, so no problem to send there troops and equipment. Iraq should mobilize large shia army units, together with Iranian volunteers, Russia and Iran should send some squadrons of fighter bombers for air support and the main strike must be in direction of Syrian border and further to reach Syrian army. Ground connection from Iran to Syria will save Syria. But as you know, such bridge will be vulnerable to attacks from north (ISIS and Turkey) and south (KSA).

    There's a simple way to deal a blow to the US when it comes to supplies. Go through Iraq under a secret bargain from both, Iraqis say Russians can't overfly, Russians say they don't. Yet they will. There's a lot of other options, like arming the Kurds to the teeth and going in the open to Assad with a Kurdish deal. If the situation improves, you cut them some slack. I'm sure Assad will agree, especially if the Russians break the bank.

    So far the talk that sees Assad losing in the coming month is premature. For that the forces against Assad will have to really reveal themselves.

    On the Manpower issue, it actually plagues both sides. The more foreigners you see among the "Syrian Opposition" the less effective their grip on Syria will be on the long Run. The actual issue is Iraq. Because the "effort" to liberate Iraq is lead by the US. Like a Pyroman Firefighter.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  max steel on Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:13 am

    Can kornets pierce usa m1 abrams with uranium armor ?


    Israel recently conducted air strikes in Syria.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  Militarov on Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:22 am

    max steel wrote:Can kornets pierce usa m1 abrams with uranium armor ?


    Israel recently conducted air strikes in Syria.

    Domestic Abrams M1A1/M1A2 has DU armor layer (somewhat like a mesh) only on turret and front hull, the rest of the armor is as it was. Exact figures of that armor are not public but it should be equal to 600mm RHA value aganist APFSDS, probably somewhat less aganist HEAT. When you see Americans claiming its 1200+ or something similar just walk away. So generally speaking it would probably survive direct frontal turret hit, however rest of it is ready for the rape since armor figures on sides, glacis, lower front turret, back, top are far lower.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  iraqidabab on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:27 pm

    USA wants Iraqi gov to tell Russia not to use it's airspace. I like how the US insults Iraq every few months, their (air) support to the Iraqi army is a joke and now they want this gov to tell a world power not to use it's airspace and risk a lot of trouble.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/world/middleeast/russian-flights-over-iraq-and-iran-escalate-tension-with-us.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:42 pm

    Israeli-Made Weapons Seized by Hezbollah in Zabadani
    TEHRAN (FNA)- A large cache of Israeli-made weapons was seized in Zabadani region during the mop-up operations by the Lebanese Hezbollah Resistance Movement.
    After 10 days of the Syrian army and Hezbollah troops' massive operations to cleanse different districts in Southwestern Zabadani region, efforts still continue to discover the terrorists' linking tunnels and hideouts.

    Only on Monday morning, Hezbollah forces could purge the terrorists from nearly 15 residential blocks in the Eastern part of al-Jasr mosque.

    Also they arrested three members of Ahrar al-Sham terrorist group during their house to house searching in Zabadani.

    Hezbollah forces also discovered and seized a large cache of Israeli-made weapons and military equipment in areas near al-Rahmah mosque in the Central parts of Zabadani.

    The Syrian army and popular forces retook the city of Zabadani from terrorists on September 1.

    The Lebanese Hezbollah resistance forces almost completed their mop-up operations in the city of Zabadani that was seized back from the terrorists last Wednesday.

    "The resistance forces have purged terrorists from Zabadani in a two-day operation," an informed source told FNA.

    The source reiterated that the terrorists had dug tunnels underneath the buildings in Zabadani to get to other parts of the city.

    Then on Thursday, Israel attacked a position of the Syrian Army in Zabadani that was used by government and Hezbollah's joint troops to pound terrorists, according to a military source.

    The Israeli Air Force has carried out airstrikes against an artillery position of the Syrian Army near the town of Zabadani, around 45 km (28 miles) from Syria's capital Damascus, a military source told Sputnik on Thursday.

    "Israeli Air Force planes carried out airstrikes at an artillery position belonging to the Syrian Army," the source said. "The artillery was used by the army to repel attacks from militants in the eastern part of Zabadani."

    The source added that terrorists attacked Syrian army positions on the east side of Zabadani in the early hours of Thursday. The Syrian military, supported by the artillery shelling, managed to repel the attack after a three-hour battle.

    After the Israeli Air Force carried out the airstrike, militants reportedly launched a second assault attempt, also repelled by the government's forces, according to the source.
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    zg18

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  zg18 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:10 am



    Wink

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:01 pm



    This is more proof of Russian government incompetence.
    The Russian media RT is basically running the story of western media
    about the refugee crisis.. almost .. and does very little next to NOTHING
    to explain the world what is really happening..

    Videos like this for example.. if the Russian Government really had competent
    people on its media will be doing reports like this..

    #RefugeeCrisis: What The Media Is Hiding, Help



    and end copy/pasting what western media says.. Most of the refugees are not Syrians..
    but form countries that nato bombed and continue bombing.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:28 pm

    Right now, the west is pushing to try and rid of themselves of RT. So they have the spotlight on them. They are also probably racking in big money on any advertisement too. So they are going to play nice for the time being. They will indirectly state whos fault it is without outright saying it.

    Sputnik and the like are usually pretty good at outright saying it. So not everyone is tiptoeing around the issue.
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    Flyboy77

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

    Post  Flyboy77 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:52 pm

    Russia sends artillery and tanks to Syria as part of continued military buildup

    The source said the seven T-90s, Russia’s most modern service tank, arrived in Latakia in the past few days but had not been seen outside the airbase. The artillery was likely for airfield defence, the source said.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/14/russia-sends-artillery-and-tanks-to-syria-as-part-of-continued-military-buildup

    Heavy weapons been brought and set up to defend Latakia airbase.

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #1

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