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    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 17, 2018 10:33 am

    Pretty obvious... the T-14M is the upgraded T-14 armata tank...


    Obviously all the new vehicles they are about to introduce are fatally flawed and so after they consult an expert like you they will realise their many many mistakes and take your input into consideration... and make the T-14M super tank.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu May 17, 2018 10:48 am

    If that is the case then why did you say it "has only 1 ERA block in that location" that makes no sense.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 pm

    What's the science behind making the relikt plates so much larger than the kontakt 5 when its an advantage that a small part of the ERA cover is blown up?
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 22, 2018 6:53 am

    If that is the case then why did you say it "has only 1 ERA block in that location" that makes no sense.

    If enemy tanks are able to hit so accurately they can hit one part of the tank repeatedly... then only that part of the tank needs to have an ERA block on it...

    What's the science behind making the relikt plates so much larger than the kontakt 5 when its an advantage that a small part of the ERA cover is blown up?

    My understanding was that the newer ERA blocks actually act like NERA and use much reduced HE charges that are very much localised to the impact point... which should mean each block is not blown off with an impact and could work against subsequent hits even with reduced effectiveness as long as they don't hit the hole created by the previous hit.

    On paper making them as small as possible would be best as that would improve the coverage, but then a hit on the joint between two cells might not actually work properly so larger cells make more sense because the bigger the cells the fewer the unprotected joins there are... who knows....
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue May 22, 2018 4:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:My understanding was that the newer ERA blocks actually act like NERA and use much reduced HE charges that are very much localised to the impact point... which should mean each block is not blown off with an impact and could work against subsequent hits even with reduced effectiveness as long as they don't hit the hole created by the previous hit.

    On paper making them as small as possible would be best as that would improve the coverage, but then a hit on the joint between two cells might not actually work properly so larger cells make more sense because the bigger the cells the fewer the unprotected joins there are... who knows....

    Then why not just use NERA it will work perfecly unless the enemy can somehow hit the same few square centermeters consistently.

    And there is nothing saying that you can't use NERA moduels wjich are easy to replace.

    Actually the bloody ukrops just don,t seem to get ERA is supposed to be a cheap way of temporarilty increasing survivability on the battlefield the moment ERA gets too heavy you may aswell use composite armor.

    Thier duplet ERA package increases the weight of the oplot to over 50 tons. Its a new production tank just make the armor thicker you retards.

    Anyway when will the T-90 recieve a hardkill APS? Russia has had them since the bloody 1980s.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed May 23, 2018 1:58 am

    GarryB wrote:
    If that is the case then why did you say it "has only 1 ERA block in that location" that makes no sense.

    If enemy tanks are able to hit so accurately they can hit one part of the tank repeatedly... then only that part of the tank needs to have an ERA block on it...

    What's the science behind making the relikt plates so much larger than the kontakt 5 when its an advantage that a small part of the ERA cover is blown up?

    My understanding was that the newer ERA blocks actually act like NERA and use much reduced HE charges that are very much localised to the impact point... which should mean each block is not blown off with an impact and could work against subsequent hits even with reduced effectiveness as long as they don't hit the hole created by the previous hit.

    On paper making them as small as possible would be best as that would improve the coverage, but then a hit on the joint between two cells might not actually work properly so larger cells make more sense because the bigger the cells the fewer the unprotected joins there are... who knows....

    Thanks for the answer. I didnt think about the block boundaries before. So does this mean that a relikt block has hundreds of tiny explosive charges and penetrator "scissors" that do the job of one whole K5 block?
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 23, 2018 3:52 pm

    Then why not just use NERA it will work perfecly unless the enemy can somehow hit the same few square centermeters consistently.

    Over the years the Soviets and Russians have worked to improve ERA. The first models tended to explode violently and often took out nearby blocks simply because of sympathetic detonations.

    The real skill has be improving the design over time using less explosive for the same or better effect, and making the explosive less sensitive so that it wont explode unless it needs to... ie 50 cal AP rounds wont set it off, but 120mm AP rounds will...

    For use on lighter vehicles like APCs and IFVs the lower explosive amounts made them more effective and useful as they become more like NERA.

    The problem of course is that the mechanism they use to reduce penetration means they can't be matchbox size munitions, but look at any tank hit in combat or target hit on any tank range and it is rather rare for stationary targets to have multiple hits in the same place... even less so for a moving tank target, so the risk of an enemy hitting a target ERA panel twice is actually rather low.

    The newer panels don't blow off and apart from a small hole might look intact after a hit... meaning working out where to hit it again would be a problem even if you could.

    Whether the new ERA blocks can actually function after being hit once... I have no idea... I would doubt it.

    And there is nothing saying that you can't use NERA moduels wjich are easy to replace.

    Which raises the question... if the outside of the ERA and NERA blocks don't deform and don't "blow off" then why not stack them?

    Would ERA on top of NERA still work?

    Many tanks have main armour that is NERA, so it should, but an external NERA plate... would that do even more?

    And of course APS before any of it... protection levels look pretty high to me.

    Thier duplet ERA package increases the weight of the oplot to over 50 tons. Its a new production tank just make the armor thicker you retards.

    They have the luxury of most of the more powerful diesel engines from the Soviet period being made in the Ukraine... if it adds 5 tons weight but greatly increases protection then it might be worth it... especially if it is available and easily replaceable...

    Anyway when will the T-90 recieve a hardkill APS? Russia has had them since the bloody 1980s.

    When it enters a conflict zone where the enemy might have anti armour weapons that warrant its use...

    So does this mean that a relikt block has hundreds of tiny explosive charges and penetrator "scissors" that do the job of one whole K5 block?

    My understanding is that it acts a bit like NERA because it has a lot less explosive and it is less sensitive, not that the charges are separated, or that it can take multiple hits.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu May 24, 2018 4:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    The newer panels don't blow off and apart from a small hole might look intact after a hit... meaning working out where to hit it again would be a problem even if you could.


    Well NERA and other composite armors don't explode so they will work even after a hit.

    That is unless the enmy can fire 2 rounds through the same hole but if they could then they could just shoot you down the gun barrel.


    GarryB wrote:Which raises the question... if the outside of the ERA and NERA blocks don't deform and don't "blow off" then why not stack them?

    Would ERA on top of NERA still work?

    Many tanks have main armour that is NERA, so it should, but an external NERA plate... would that do even more?


    Seriously have you never heard of the T-72B3? or the T-90 or any other tank with both?

    I just hope the next thing you say isn't about replacing armor with multiple layers of ERA like thoes retards from azov.

    Thoes idiots even mixed 2 difforent types of ERA having duplet ontop of nozh.

    GarryB wrote:And of course APS before any of it... protection levels look pretty high to me.


    The APS is something that has been ready for instilation since the 1980s. And with newer and more advanced models ready where the bloody hell is it?


    GarryB wrote:They have the luxury of most of the more powerful diesel engines from the Soviet period being made in the Ukraine... if it adds 5 tons weight but greatly increases protection then it might be worth it... especially if it is available and easily replaceable...

    You are seriously defending ukropi retards disasterous oplot. (where the bloody hell is the facepalm thing)

    GarryB wrote:When it enters a conflict zone where the enemy might have anti armour weapons that warrant its use...

    OH so they just have complet Afganit systems lying around why not just fit them on now and be done with it.

    The T-14 Armata is an exelent example of how to protect a tank.

    It has 3 deffensive layers while not compromising the base armor having over 900mm RHAE measured in Russian standards which gives it better base armor other tank on the planet is hardy relying on ERA for protection.

    On the other hand the ukropi tanks rely on thier overweight ERA for protection as thier base armor cannot possibly withsand modern APFSDS rounds.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri May 25, 2018 12:36 am

    Apparently the americsns are claiming the m829a4 can defeat the relikt. I highly doubt this because In order to defeat it you have to know its internal structure(the only way they managed to defeat k5 was by acquiring it) and theres few to now ways the americans can get the relikt.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 25, 2018 8:40 am

    Well NERA and other composite armors don't explode so they will work even after a hit.

    They don't use explosives, but deform internally to attempt to shear or disrupt the penetrator... whether they work on multiple hits or not is another question.

    Early ceramic plates shattered on impact so the first round is defeated by the second round hits fragments and goes right through.

    Improved ceramic plates can take multiple hits... but not overlapping hits.


    The APS is something that has been ready for instilation since the 1980s. And with newer and more advanced models ready where the bloody hell is it?

    In Chechnia part one they lost a lot of tanks that didn't even have their ERA blocks loaded with explosives and you want expensive APS systems?

    In Chechnia part two they lost very few tanks... so why is APS needed again?


    You are seriously defending ukropi retards disasterous oplot. (where the bloody hell is the facepalm thing)

    So you are a fanboy... all Ukrainians are bad and you can learn nothing from them, and everything they do is stupid...


    OH so they just have complet Afganit systems lying around why not just fit them on now and be done with it.

    They have about 6,000 tanks in service and in reserve in Europe... Afghan will not be cheap and putting it on 6,000 tanks will be expensive and totally unjustified for the 4,000 in storage...

    On the other hand the ukropi tanks rely on thier overweight ERA for protection as thier base armor cannot possibly withsand modern APFSDS rounds.

    But they only have little buttplug Soviet penetrators to worry about don't they?

    No Abrams or Leopards firing at them any time soon is there?

    It couldn't possibly be true that not having a super armour penetrating main round in your main tanks gun means you automatically lose...

    I mean if Konkurs can still kill Abrams tanks then there is no risk of them dominating the battlefield is there?

    BTW the Armata tank might have great armour, but what about Kurganets or Boomerang or Typhoon?
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    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:29 pm

    Russia’s upgraded T-90 tank outshines its predecessor in combat efficiency

    This year, the Russian troops are expected to receive a battalion set of T-90M tanks

    KUBINKA /Moscow Region/, August 22. /TASS/. Russia’s upgraded T-90M main battle tank considerably surpassed its T-90A predecessor by its combat efficiency at the Zapad-2017 strategic drills, the press office of Uralvagonzavod defense contractor told TASS at the Army-2018 forum on Wednesday.

    "By its combat efficiency, the T-90M tank considerably excels its predecessor, the T-90A. The participation of T-90M tanks in the Zapad-2017 drills fully confirmed the armored vehicle’s performance characteristics required by the Defense Ministry of Russia," the press office said, replying to the corresponding question.

    A contract on the delivery of the T-90M heavily modernized tank to the troops was signed between the Defense Ministry and Uralvagonzavod at the Army-2017 international military and technical forum.

    The T-90M tank was furnished with the new engine and equipment and with the latest version of the Relikt explosive reactive armor. As was reported earlier, this year, the Russian troops are expected to receive a battalion set of T-90M tanks.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1018144
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    Post  franco on Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:09 am

    A new contract of the Russian Defense Ministry for T-90M tanks

    It was reported that on August 21, 2018, at the International Military Technical Forum "Army-2018" opened in Kubinka, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed with the Scientific Production Corporation "Uralvagonzavod" the second contract for the purchase of T-90M tanks, deliveries will be made in 2019 year.

    Recall that the first contract for the supply of T-90M tanks ("Object 188M") was signed by the Russian Ministry of Defense with the Uralvagonzavod NPK at the previous International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" on August 24, 2017. According to the published data , the first contract was concluded for the delivery of 30 T-90M tanks in 2018-2019. Of the 30 T-90M tanks, only ten should be new-built machines, and the remaining 20 will be converted during the overhaul and modernization of the T-90 tanks (apparently to assess the level of costs to upgrade to T-90M of the existing fleet of T-90 tanks). According to unofficial information, a new contract at the forum "Army-2018" is concluded for one battalion of T-90M tanks of new construction (apparently, about 30 tanks).



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    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:17 pm

    The first T-90S for Vietnam

    SVERDLOVSK REGION, RUSSIA - OCTOBER 18, 2018: Hydrostatic testing of a T-90 tank at the UVZ Uralvagonzavod factory in the city of Nizhny Tagil; Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation develops and manufactures military hardware including battle tanks, and rail tank wagons.

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    Post  xeno on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:08 am

    After reading the debate on otvaga2004, I realise I made a mistake. Russia did catch up with the latest thermal imager technology.

    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1989&p=18#p1175567
    In (CATHERINE–)XP the actual resolution of the matrix is only 384*288, MR 640*512. And what is written French, is achieved by microcannulae.
    В ХР реальное разрешение матрицы всего лишь 384*288, в МР 640*512. А то, что пишут французы, достигается микросканированием.

    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1989&p=18#p1175569
    CATHERINE–FC is a matrix 288х4 plus scanner. So 754x576.
    TPK-K "promemoria" matrix ФЭМ18М-03 resolution 640х512.
    This is a different generation of thermal imagers. If, for example, to add to ФЭМ18М-03 MicroScan then get 1280x1024.

    CATHERINE–FC - это линейчатая матрица 288х4 плюс сканер. Так получается 754x576.
    В ТПК-К "прямосмотрящая" матрица ФЭМ18М-03 с разрешением 640х512.
    Это разные поколения тепловизоров. Если, например, добавить к ФЭМ18М-03 микросканирование то получиться 1280х1024.

    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1989&p=18#p1175608
    ФЭМ18М-03 is an analogue of the Catherine MP )))))) and not FS )))
    ФЭМ18М-03 это аналог Катрин МП )))))) а не ФС )))

    Reading the whole thread page is hightly recommended. Very informative.
    Russia is now producing the best thermal imagers for the tanks.

    So happy.

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:20 am

    Would make sense since Rostec/Schwab put in ridiculous amount of money into Orion company to produce the matrix needed to make the thermal imagers.

    Much like their production of GaN. Lots of money pumped in. And while the thermal imagers holds great prospect for national protection, it is also dual purpose and can be sold to civilian market as well.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:31 am

    One of the videos about the Armata tank shows them working with thermal imagers and they display long, medium, and short wave thermal devices... what is interesting is that each wavelength has advantages and disadvantages, so using all three means with a bit of processing you can get a much better view than if you had selected one or other type.

    Note the short wavelength IR model can actually see through glass...

    The advantage of thermal imagers along with MMW radar, and indeed sophisticated optical systems is that combined they really can improve awareness day or night.

    In their image intensification systems they had an image processing system that could identify natural light and non natural light... in other words the reflected colour of a plant, compared with the reflected light of painted or dyed fabric of the same apparent colour...

    Digital video systems with image processing can be rather impressive and still relatively cheap.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:45 am

    GarryB wrote:In their image intensification systems they had an image processing system that could identify natural light and non natural light... in other words the reflected colour of a plant, compared with the reflected light of painted or dyed fabric of the same apparent colour...

    Off Topic Allow me to elaborate this a bit, healthy chlorophyll photosysntheis system has a distinctive reflection of near-infrared wavelengths and people can inspect the occurence and intensity of that emission to detect whether that green is from a living plant, and how well the plant is living.

    The idea is actually quite old, if my memory is correct it was used in WW2 to detect camouflage and in the 195x-6x to inspect the status of croplands. Today that technique have developed into quite a complicated formula and algorithm to determine the health status of the vegetations and woodlands, basically plants belongs to different species and in different health status reflect different kinds of wavelengths; and now a supercomputer has to assist ecologists and conservationists to do all the braindamaging jobs...

    I wonder what kind of formulas and algorithms are used in the military versions, since as far as I know the conservationists have to fix their formula many many times to consider all factors that can twisted the light signal and to encompass all kinds of different plants and today there are still some sorts of debate about which formula should be use or what should be fixed. Off Topic Off Topic
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:03 am

    The Russian Armed Forces expected to get a modernized version of the modern T-90 main battle tanks by 2020.

    Russian military expert Alexey Khlopotov reported that the first batch of T-90M main battle tanks, known popularly as “Proryv-3” will take delivery to Russian Army by the end of 2019 and will be ready for warfare by 2020.

    “The T-90M – a modernized version of the T-90A tank, also known as the “Object 188M”, created during the research and development (R&D) “Proryv-3,” a military expert explained, adding that production of upgraded tanks will be started by the end of the year.

    The Russian military will receive T-90M tanks which now has a new turret with a longer 125mm gun and advanced fire control system.

    Compared with T-90A, the improved version will feature a new all-welded turret design protected by the Relikt ERA (Explosive Reactive Armour) armour fitted at the front and on each side of the turret. Additionally, turret equipped with add-on armor kit to counter the threat of rocket propelled grenades.

    The new main battle tank is powered by a V-92S2 engine developing 1,000 hp, producing a top road speed of 60 km/h and a cruising range of 550 km.

    The main armament is complemented by a one 125 mm 2A46M-4 smoothbore gun able to fire standard ammunition but also Anti-Tank Guided Missiles (ATGM) Refleks NATO Code AT-11 Sniper-B.


    https://defence-blog.com/army/russian-army-to-get-newest-proryv-3-tanks-by-2020.html
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:11 pm

    Does this mean the T-90A with the 2a82 gun or is this just the domestic version of that crapy export version with new ERA.

    If it is the latter just don't bother with it and spend the money on the Armata program or the Navy/Airforce.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:16 pm

    It is T-90A with 2a82, new turret to accomodate longer shells, Afghanit and Relikt.

    Still not worth the money IMO. Better to redirect all resources towards T-14
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    Post  franco on Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:37 pm

    Present plans call for a combined total of 400 T-90M and T-90AM's (T-90A's upgraded to T-90M standard).
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:35 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:It is T-90A with 2a82, new turret to accomodate longer shells, Afghanit and Relikt.

    Still not worth the money IMO. Better to redirect all resources towards T-14

    You can upgrade entire fleet of T-90s for price of dozen T-14s at most s it's a drop in the bucket


    EDIT:


    I assume this would be the one:

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    Post  william.boutros on Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:31 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Does this mean the T-90A with the 2a82 gun or is this just the domestic version of that crapy export version with new ERA.

    If it is the latter just don't bother with it and spend the money on the Armata program or the Navy/Airforce.

    It is probably 1130 hp engine and an older gun
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:13 am

    Have to keep in mind that the armata MBT (T-14) is not supposed to replace the entire fleet of T-90/T-72/T-80 vehicles in Russian service...

    It will only replace the tanks in heavy brigades and units, the tank model of Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon will have Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon based tank vehicles to replace the T series tank vehicles...

    And there will be some rear area and reserve units that will have T series tanks too, so this sort of upgrade means they will be rather more capable than they ever have been before.

    Right now all the electronics and sensors and ammo is new and expensive, so expanding production to include some for T-90 units reduces costs and expands experience in use and maintainence which could lead to improvements even before it gets into service on other platforms... saving money and problems later on.

    Does this mean the T-90A with the 2a82 gun or is this just the domestic version of that crapy export version with new ERA.

    This will likely be an original T-90 tank with new gun and autoloader with more powerful ammo, with new fire control systems and new sensors and thermals, new ERA and NERA, new engine and transmission, new communications equipment, and other equipment developed for the T-14.

    It makes it an Su-35... and in many situations it could be more useful than the heavier and more expensive T-14... but either way it can be in service much faster and cheaper so the forces get capabilities much quicker and get more experience before the real vehicle enters service.
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    flamming_python

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    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 2 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:This will likely be an original T-90 tank with new gun and autoloader with more powerful ammo, with new fire control systems and new sensors and thermals, new ERA and NERA, new engine and transmission, new communications equipment, and other equipment developed for the T-14.

    It makes it an Su-35... and in many situations it could be more useful than the heavier and more expensive T-14... but either way it can be in service much faster and cheaper so the forces get capabilities much quicker and get more experience before the real vehicle enters service.

    It's not that it's a bad idea.. just an expensive one.
    Why not just stick to modernization of existing stock?

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    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2 - Page 2 Empty Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

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