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    T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:40 pm

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:20 pm

    franco wrote:I'm dubious of any mention of putting old T-90's back into service. They have been in storage for 25 years after a short unsuccessful service life. Another article I have read indicated plans to put a total of 400 T-90M and T-90AM (A's upgraded to M standard) into operation.

    Why not? Make use of their current systems in reserve to make them suitable for modern and future combat. I would suggest making a similar upgrade for T-72's as well so it streamlines it all.
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    Post  Isos on Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:55 am

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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:48 pm

    franco wrote:I'm dubious of any mention of putting old T-90's back into service. They have been in storage for 25 years after a short unsuccessful service life. Another article I have read indicated plans to put a total of 400 T-90M and T-90AM (A's upgraded to M standard) into operation.

    There's some talk (not official) that the plan is to upgrade existing in service T-90/T-90A as well as produce 30-40 new T-90M per year.....the 200 odd T-90's in storage might be either scrapped or possibly upgraded at a later stage
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    Post  Isos on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:07 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    franco wrote:I'm dubious of any mention of putting old T-90's back into service. They have been in storage for 25 years after a short unsuccessful service life. Another article I have read indicated plans to put a total of 400 T-90M and T-90AM (A's upgraded to M standard) into operation.

    There's some talk (not official) that the plan is to upgrade existing in service T-90/T-90A as well as produce 30-40 new T-90M per year.....the 200 odd T-90's in storage might be either scrapped or possibly upgraded at a later stage

    That reduces the money they can spend on t-14. They should remember that t-90 are not cheap at all (neither is the modernization). It's not really smart to buy new build t-90M which is an old design trying to be as good as the t-14 and almost for the same price.

    Upgrading existant tanks and buying only the new t-14 is much better.

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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:02 am

    Isos wrote:That reduces the money they can spend on t-14. They should remember that t-90 are not cheap at all (neither is the modernization). It's not really smart to buy new build t-90M which is an old design trying to be as good as the t-14 and almost for the same price.

    Upgrading existant tanks and buying only the new t-14 is much better.


    Apparently they're planning only a limited production run for a few years...they want about 400-500 T-90M's...so roughly about 200 new ones
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:29 am

    Well with Iraqi units declaring they prefer the T-90 to the Abrams, and Egypt basically doing the same, it is not really a shock to think that in a lot of cases the T-90 might often be good enough.

    I rather suspect Egypt and Iraq probably don't want to foot the fuel bill for a gas turbine powered tank too of course... Smile
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    Post  nero on Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:20 pm

    [quote="Isos"]
    Cyberspec wrote:
    franco wrote:I'm dubious of any mention of putting old T-90's back into service. They have been in storage for 25 years after a short unsuccessful service life. Another article I have read indicated plans to put a total of 400 T-90M and T-90AM (A's upgraded to M standard) into operation.
    Upgrading existant tanks and buying only the new t-14 is much better.
    Not really.

    The T-14 is part of the Armata platform, it's release will coincide with the entire platforms release as if there needs to be meaningful modifications to the platform it will affect the T-14 too. Until they work around all of the kinks it will stay in small production numbers.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:26 pm


    The T-14 is part of the Armata platform, it's release will coincide with the entire platforms release as if there needs to be meaningful modifications to the platform it will affect the T-14 too. Until they work around all of the kinks it will stay in small production numbers.

    The thing is that every vehicle of the aramata family costs a couple of million of dollars. If they want meaningful numbers they will need 20 years or more to have it. Spending more on t-90 increases the timeline of armata.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:40 am

    Spending more on Armata wont get it into meaningful service faster... they have to develop a whole range of upgraded vehicle types before Armata can enter service properly... they will likely start with Armata brigades first.

    Directing more money to new T-90s and BMP-3 upgrades means less pressure to get the new vehicle families into service.

    There is a lot of focus on the Armata but I suspect the lighter vehicles will be mass produced faster and developed quicker, and should be ready earlier.

    They of course might decide that to save a bit of money that they could make the tank, the IFV, the APC, and the BMPT vehicles from Armata tanks to protect the troops and the tank crews and have the rest of the vehicles in a heavy brigade or division being Kurganets.

    Having only two vehicle types in a force at least reduces the parts and support requirements of the logistics tail.

    Keep in mind that a current brigade like the one I mentioned above needs tracks and wheels and engine parts and transmission parts for T-90 tanks, T-80 tanks (for the MSTA artillery vehicles), for MTLB based vehicles, for BMP-1 and BMP-2 and BMP-3 based vehicles of all types, for BTR-80 based vehicles and BTR-60 based support vehicles, and BRDM-2 vehicles, and of course Grad trucks, TOR and SA-13 and 2S6M vehicles as well as any trucks and prime movers for the towed weapons as well... you can see why having three or four vehicle families can simplify logistics and support, while also making mobility and fire power and protection levels much more even and equivalent.

    From a design point of view you make the base vehicles flexible and standardised so to develop an IFV you don't need to design four different ones... you just design one turret... the T-14 turret and you put it on the Boomerang and the Kurganets and perhaps even the Typhoon and maybe later on even the Sprut. Hell, they could even use it in fixed positions on land bases and on river boats. And it works for every role... IFV will get high velocity 57mm gun plus Bulat light ATGMs and Kornet or Krisantema heavy ATGMs, APC can have either low velocity 57mm grenade launcher gun or 30mm cannon and light and heavy missiles... and those turrets can be designed to be fitted to any vehicle family.
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    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:33 pm

    The number of Abrams & Leopards lost in Iraq & Yemen in last few years has shown that the 'Soviet pop-top' meme was largely because modern Western tanks simply hadn't been exposed to powerful modern ATGMs yet.

    On top of preference for T-90 from Iraq which has operated both, its pretty interesting that Egypt is now looking at obtaining T-90s when they already have a full & recent Abrams production line.

    At least part of that is because US uses threat/action of blocking supply of parts as leverage for policy gains -> diversification of supplier becomes important for countries seeking some independence.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:03 am

    I also suspect the costs of supplying fuel for useful numbers of Abrams tanks is probably a convincing argument for the military too.

    Does anyone know if the models used by Iraq and Egypt have APUs?

    It was a critical addition to the T-80 because when sitting doing nothing running the main engine to keep the heater or AC on as well as all the systems like optics and comms burns an enormous amount of fuel, whereas having a small APU using a tiny fraction of the fuel can keep all the systems running and preheat the engine so starting up to move can be much much quicker.

    In the arctic the T-80 makes a lot of sense, but everywhere else issues with dust and fuel consumption make it expensive and fussy.

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