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    Syrian War: News #18

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    Vann7

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 16, 2018 7:02 am

    Mindless_drone wrote:

    1a) US/NATO cabal isn’t being outplayed and Russia is just weak. NATO doesn’t want to put boots on the ground.
         

    1b) Russia is hopelessly outgunned and outnumbered in Syria.
    2) A 500 cruise missiles strike can wipe out both of Russia’s major bases in Syria.
    3) Do people on this forum seriously think that a 20-30 aircraft deployment with some SAMS can challenge American supremacy in the area?
    S400 isn’t even a completed system. The 400km missile isn’t ready.
    Flankers in Syria have no BVR weapons.
    4) Russia knows its weak and playing its hand accordingly by focusing on winning the civil war.
    5) That’s why Russia hasn’t tried to close of Syrian airspace or let Syria strike any NATO positions.


    Lets see.. lets pick one by one some of your wrong arguments..
    1a) Russia military is not weak dude.. Russia have the capabilities to wipe American military easily , in all middle east and europe.. If Russia was Ruled by a Crazy leader that had no patience.. he can order a preventive strike that will defeat Americans ,blow the hell of all their military bases in Middle east and Europe ,Russia can do it.. But Russia is not interested yet to start a world war 3 , at least not for Syria.. so will prefer to avoid it.
    If for Russia Syria territorial integrity was extremely important for Russia existence, Russia government could have sent in 2011 a full scale army invasion in Syria and conquer 100% of Syria territory in just a few months. before NATO backed terrorist take control of too much territory.. But Russia did not wanted it.. for ECONOMICAL REASONS..and hoped for Syrian army to counter it alone.. So don't confuse strategy with weakness.. Russia saw that the war could cost a A lot of Money and simply tried to minimize the damages by a limited help.
    1b) quote " Russia is hopelessly outgunned and outnumbered in Syria "
    and thats the way Russia wanted it... it was a choice... Russia understand well ,the US war on Syria ,
    was designed to bleed Russia economy.. not to over run or defeat the Russian army.  So is not a limitation of
    Russia military capabilities.. but a Policy decision to send a small military force , to minimize the damages
    on Russia economy ,while at same time a force strong enough to help Syria reverse terrorist gains.. and this is
    exactly what Russia achieved.. it worked quite well.
    2) Russia military defense capabilities in Syria are limited..  Is not the same force capabilities they have in Crimea or in Kalingrad or even less Moscow.. So you don't see the difference between Russia policy in Syria vs Russia nation defense capabilities.  Russia have on its main land the capability to defeat easily a 500 cruise missile attack from NATO
    specially when those missiles are very slow and linear trajectory.  But all this air defense system cost a lot of money..
    understand? is not Russia goals to seal completely Syrian airspace.. who is going to pay for that? You ?
    because that will be EXPENSIVE $$$. understand? not mentioning revealing to NATO everything about Russia
    air defenses capabilities.. Russia simply have chosen a Policy that can help Russia defeat ISIS in Syria without
    spending a fortune ,which is what NATO really wants.. to bankrupt Russia economy.
    3)--quote--
    Do people on this forum seriously think that a 20-30 aircraft deployment with some SAMS can challenge American supremacy in the area?  .. ans.. Again this was a Choice of Russia.. deploying a hundred of COmbat planes in
    Syria will be very expensive!!! wars are not only about military power.. a nation can be defeated ,even if you win
    all the battles.. ask Americans in the vietnam war..  Wars also need to take into account the economics parts of it.
    If your nation economy collapse.. then who is going to pay the soldiers?  If Russia economy collapse then all the gains of Russia will be reversed by Americans if Russia military is forced to retreat for not having more money to fight.
    4)Russia is not weak.. Actually Russia military is way stronger than the Americans one... and can even push NATO away from Ukraine.. the combinations of Russia missile forces ,artillery with tanks can overwhelm NATO positions in Ukraine in no time.  but Syria is in the middle east.. not near Russia.. and Americans picked the syrian battlefield
    to fight by proxy Russia ,precisely because Syria is surrounded by powerful enemies there.. But if things were Reversed.??? What if americans had to defend Georgia ,the country in the southern border of Russia ? and All Nations in Black Sea were Pro Russia? then US military will have no way to properly defend Georgia.. because will be encircled
    completely from All sides.. If Turkey was allied with Russia.. then Turkey can shoot from behind at Americans and Russia from the front.. and lock Americans navy in the black sea.. it will be a massacre of American warships there.
    Or another more real life example.. Why You think Americans did not send ,2000 soldiers ,just like they did in Syria..
    to help Kiev recapture Donetsk and Lugansk ? Because they will have no way to fight Russia ,near its own territory.
    when endless unlimited resources for them..

    The whole Point of the Syrian War ,that Began in 2011.. was a war ,that americans ,British and israel designed
    this conflict to exploit Russia lack of allies in the zone..  If Americans had to defend for example MOngolia
    a land locked nation by China and Russia.. then how Weak Americans are going to defend them? they can't...
    Is landlocked and the will have to invade Russia or China to enter there..  This means that Geography IS SUPER IMPORTANT... in wars..  The size of Russia territory helped Russia win wars.. even when their army was weaker ,than Napoleon Army..or Hitler army.. So Russia is a very strong nation , Americans can't defeat Russia near its borders.. in a conventional force today. so this is why they provoke conflicts far from Russia..  It will be similar ,to a Shark picking a fight with a lion , in the water..who will win in the water? A shark ? or a lion ? you need to know your zone ,where you are stronger.. American military weakness is their Land COmbat forces..having issues in taking territory away from Talibans  in afganistan ,imagine that.. their strategy depends on the Navy .. and Airforce exclusively..

    Russia knows it is in an alliance major disadvantage in Syria , and is virtually alone fighting there.. and US have a major alliance of many dozens of nations..and so Russia designed a policy to help Syria fight ISIS in the cheapest way possible.. but what will have happen if things were reversed.. that US allies were Russian allies.. Turkey ,Israel ,Jordan and IRAQ,lebanon.. were all allied with Russia ? and none of them allowed Americans bases there ? Can Americans capture any territory in Syria without neighbors support? NO.. For deploying military bases.. all by air.. is a doomed policy.. they will have no way to maintain any position in Syria ,if they had no allies at all.. and instead all Syrian neighbors were hostile to americans..  Moral of the story is Geography and Politics matters in war..  is not only about
    the side of your army.. alliances ,free movement through territory and geography matter .IF americans had no support from Turkey ,ISRAEL and Jordan.. the Syrian war will have not even started at all.. the sectarian muslim will had no guns.. at all.. and Russia is called weak.. for not creating a no fly zone for NATO in Syria.. but To enforce a no fly zone..in all Syria  airspace , when Syria only controlled 30% of its territory ,and was too busy for saving Syria existence.. will have been very expensive.. and will have put at risk the entire Syria operation. which is what
    Americans wanted.. to distract Syria and Russia from the fights against terrorist..  But Russia did not fall ,in that..
    and instead focused in fighting ISIS first.. and it worked..

    So the only weak ones are Americans and NOT RUssia..
    Russia sent its military to a very dangerous zone ,that NATO had ALL the advantages in the world..
    a regional support ,almost all Syria neighbor were safe zones for ISIS and Alqaeda.. sending jihadist across border to fight Russia and Syria. and still Russia managed to kick in the ass American backed terrorist in Aleppo ,And Damascus and Homs.. and do i need to continue? In the other hand.. Russia imposed its will in Georgia and in Ukraine..
    and what Americans did? NOTHING.. sanctions.. lol1 So who is the weak one? Americans will never send its military to a zone ,until all conditions are close to perfect for them.. and they have a place to retreat in case things
    goes bad.. Russia in the other hand , had no place to retreat in Syria..other that their military swim ,if their base is Over Run by Turkey.Isreal or the entire middle east. or ISIS.. Russia shows far more courage than Americans
    in Battlefields.. Just look how even in Serbia , Russia military sent a hundred of special forces ,to help Serbia counter US and UK bombings.
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    nomadski

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  nomadski on Wed May 16, 2018 10:32 am

    Russia and Iran do not need massive forces to confront yank and Co . As long as they have the people on their side . The enemy does not . They only look after own immediate interests . At expense of people . They install dictators and absolute rulers . Or minorities they control or bribe . To rule over the people . Rob them and exploit them .

    Our power is not in military power alone . But in people power . To bring peace and form national democratic governments . This is our assymetric power . It is not about simply selling guns . Or a military base . The people and their children will remember us . Property and money will not last . But memory will . Our children will play with their children in peace . So don't worry . The people of the world are on our side .

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    calm

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  calm on Wed May 16, 2018 4:01 pm

    calm wrote:Future of Syria?
    https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/995083149695733760



    today #Turkey set up the 12th & last observation point in Greater #Idlib, ending process that began 7 months ago. Main aim is to prevent any ground offensive.


    possible SAA atack on west Aleppo
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    eehnie

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  eehnie on Wed May 16, 2018 4:25 pm

    Retaliation 1: Syria in full control of Homs.

    Map posters not interested in to show the fall of the pocket.
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    calm

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  calm on Wed May 16, 2018 4:58 pm

    It will be interesting to see where will SAA go next in upcoming weeks/months. Now after Damascus / Homs / Hama road is completely secured after Ghouta, Qalamoun and Rastan rebels are defeated and removed.

    SAA already rehabilitated M5 highway around Ghouta.
    13km so far


    https://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/status/996691822050234368
    Harasta highway in 3 pictures after kicking Saudi-backed jihadists out #Damascus
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  flamming_python on Wed May 16, 2018 8:55 pm

    LMFS wrote:Relevant to the whole discussion about recent developments of the Russian stance on the Syria-Israel-Iran triangle and the S-300 issue:

    https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/995637860282916864

    To me Elijah Magnier is easily the best ME analyst out there, cannot recommend enough to read him.


    I don't see what good Russia gets from close relations with Israel; apart from maybe having to avoid militarily confronting the US and Israel both.. but all Russia really needs to do is avoid confronting both at the same time - and smart diplomacy and political maneuvering is enough to accomplish that.

    Fact is Russia gains nothing in terms of the Muslim world's respect by pursuing relations with a country that yesterday alone killed dozens of unarmed Palestinians; including children, aid workers and journalists. Influence in Israel is worth squat - it's hated by its neighbours and now will be all the more so, it's population is not particularly positively disposed towards Russia, it's a small country and economy in the scheme of things that affects little outside its borders. It has some nice technologies but nothing Russia can't develop itself or get elsewhere. Besides that it's always been the eyes and ears of the US in the Middle East and will remain so.. our leaders are harboring some ridiculous delusions.

    Russia also gains nothing by facilitating Israeli interests in Syria at the expense of the Syrians and Iranians; while the Israelis keep trying to send their little 'messages' anyway. Syria cannot be secured until Israeli military presence from it is expelled. Syria is effectively Russia's military ally and while the danger of confrontation with the US persists, Iran is effectively too. They will have our back, not the Israelis.

    And the backing off from supplying the S-300 is a betrayal and made Russia lose prestige.. again all for the sake of Israel. Syrians deserve a safe & secure sky as much as any other country in the world does.

    Oh but Putin was sure pleased to have a Western leader like Netanyahu come to attend the Victory Day parade though. Russia 'not isolated', and all that. Talk about priorities.
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    Isos

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  Isos on Wed May 16, 2018 9:27 pm

    And the backing off from supplying the S-300 is a betrayal and made Russia lose prestige.. again all for the sake of Israel. Syrians deserve a safe & secure sky as much as any other country in the world does.

    I think rosoboronexport is not that much happy to see S-300 in Syrian hands. First because they don't have the money to pay it so it would be a gift from russia and second they totally suck at operating advanced systems so Israel will destroy the few systems Syria could receive and it would impact S-300 image. The pantsir story just proves it.

    par far

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  par far on Wed May 16, 2018 9:32 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Relevant to the whole discussion about recent developments of the Russian stance on the Syria-Israel-Iran triangle and the S-300 issue:

    https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/995637860282916864

    To me Elijah Magnier is easily the best ME analyst out there, cannot recommend enough to read him.


    I don't see what good Russia gets from close relations with Israel; apart from maybe having to avoid militarily confronting the US and Israel both.. but all Russia really needs to do is avoid confronting both at the same time - and smart diplomacy and political maneuvering is enough to accomplish that.

    Fact is Russia gains nothing in terms of the Muslim world's respect by pursuing relations with a country that yesterday alone killed dozens of unarmed Palestinians; including children, aid workers and journalists. Influence in Israel is worth squat - it's hated by its neighbours and now will be all the more so, it's population is not particularly positively disposed towards Russia, it's a small country and economy in the scheme of things that affects little outside its borders. It has some nice technologies but nothing Russia can't develop itself or get elsewhere. Besides that it's always been the eyes and ears of the US in the Middle East and will remain so.. our leaders are harboring some ridiculous delusions.

    Russia also gains nothing by facilitating Israeli interests in Syria at the expense of the Syrians and Iranians; while the Israelis keep trying to send their little 'messages' anyway. Syria cannot be secured until Israeli military presence from it is expelled. Syria is effectively Russia's military ally and while the danger of confrontation with the US persists, Iran is effectively too. They will have our back, not the Israelis.

    And the backing off from supplying the S-300 is a betrayal and made Russia lose prestige.. again all for the sake of Israel. Syrians deserve a safe & secure sky as much as any other country in the world does.

    Oh but Putin was sure pleased to have a Western leader like Netanyahu come to attend the Victory Day parade though. Russia 'not isolated', and all that. Talk about priorities.


    No really, this is politics and this is how politics work. Russia probably got something in return for doing this.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 16, 2018 9:35 pm

    flamming_python wrote:.........
    Fact is Russia gains nothing in terms of the Muslim world's respect by pursuing relations with a country that yesterday alone killed dozens of unarmed Palestinians; including children, aid workers and journalists....

    So how about that same Muslim world get off their asses and do something about it if killing of unarmed Palestinians bothers them so much?

    You probably missed it due to George1 dropping the hammer but we posted nice little article on that:

    ....When following the 1967 Six Days War the Russians did commit themselves wholeheartedly to one side in the Arab-Israeli conflict – backing the Arabs diplomatically, arming the Arabs intensively, sending a strong military force to defend Egypt in 1970 from Israeli air attacks, and breaking off diplomatic relations with Israel – the result for Moscow was a catastrophe.

    The USSR’s large Jewish community became alienated, the USSR found that by making an enemy of Israel it had further poisoned its relations with the Western powers at precisely the time when it was seeking detente with them, and the USSR quickly discovered that its Arab ‘allies’ in whom it had invested so much were both ungrateful and treacherous, so that by 1980 the USSR’s entire position in the Middle East had completely collapsed.

    The final straw came after the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in 1979, when volunteers from across the Arab world rushed to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, in a way that they had never shown the slightest indication of wanting to do against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians.

    https://russia-insider.com/en/putin-didnt-help-out-syria-against-israel-so-what/ri23448



    flamming_python wrote:.........And the backing off from supplying the S-300 is a betrayal and made Russia lose prestige.. again all for the sake of Israel. Syrians deserve a safe & secure sky as much as any other country in the world does....

    They would lose even more prestige if that same S-300 was left parked in the middle of the runway by incompetent morons to be blown up by el-cheapo disposable Israeli drone like that Pantsir did.



    flamming_python wrote:.........Oh but Putin was sure pleased to have a Western leader like Netanyahu come to attend the Victory Day parade though. Russia 'not isolated', and all that. Talk about priorities.

    BB is about as western leader as that other guy who stopped over for Victory Day. You probably missed him though since there were bigger dudes there so it's understandable. Wink

    par far

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  par far on Wed May 16, 2018 9:37 pm

    Isos wrote:
    And the backing off from supplying the S-300 is a betrayal and made Russia lose prestige.. again all for the sake of Israel. Syrians deserve a safe & secure sky as much as any other country in the world does.

    I think rosoboronexport is not that much happy to see S-300 in Syrian hands. First because they don't have the money to pay it so it would be a gift from russia and second they totally suck at operating advanced systems so Israel will destroy the few systems Syria could receive and it would impact S-300 image.  The pantsir story just proves it.


    I think the Russian government would pay(I don't know how it works) for the S-300 and if Russia had given the SAA, the S-300, it would been Russian Service men or Russian PMC(I don't know if Russia does these kinds of things but in the US, they had PMC's operating drones, the PMC's totally fucked it up but what else is new with US army), that operated the S-300 because it is a very complex system.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed May 16, 2018 9:40 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I don't see what good Russia gets from close relations with Israel

    Israel is the dominant power in that region. If Russia wants to succeed with their Syria project, they need to be in good terms with Israel.

    PapaDragon wrote:BB is about as western leader as that other guy who stopped over for Victory Day. You probably missed him though since there were bigger dudes there so it's understandable.  Wink

    Yeah Serbian PM is a frickin NBA giant.

    par far

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  par far on Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:.........
    Fact is Russia gains nothing in terms of the Muslim world's respect by pursuing relations with a country that yesterday alone killed dozens of unarmed Palestinians; including children, aid workers and journalists....

    So how about that same Muslim world get off their asses and do something about it if killing of unarmed Palestinians bothers them so much?

    You probably missed it due to George1 dropping the hammer but we posted nice little article on that:

    ....When following the 1967 Six Days War the Russians did commit themselves wholeheartedly to one side in the Arab-Israeli conflict – backing the Arabs diplomatically, arming the Arabs intensively, sending a strong military force to defend Egypt in 1970 from Israeli air attacks, and breaking off diplomatic relations with Israel – the result for Moscow was a catastrophe.

    The USSR’s large Jewish community became alienated, the USSR found that by making an enemy of Israel it had further poisoned its relations with the Western powers at precisely the time when it was seeking detente with them, and the USSR quickly discovered that its Arab ‘allies’ in whom it had invested so much were both ungrateful and treacherous, so that by 1980 the USSR’s entire position in the Middle East had completely collapsed.

    The final straw came after the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in 1979, when volunteers from across the Arab world rushed to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, in a way that they had never shown the slightest indication of wanting to do against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians.

    https://russia-insider.com/en/putin-didnt-help-out-syria-against-israel-so-what/ri23448



    flamming_python wrote:.........And the backing off from supplying the S-300 is a betrayal and made Russia lose prestige.. again all for the sake of Israel. Syrians deserve a safe & secure sky as much as any other country in the world does....

    They would lose even more prestige if that same S-300 was left parked in the middle of the runway by incompetent morons to be blown up by el-cheapo disposable Israeli drone like that Pantsir did.



    flamming_python wrote:.........Oh but Putin was sure pleased to have a Western leader like Netanyahu come to attend the Victory Day parade though. Russia 'not isolated', and all that. Talk about priorities.

    BB is about as western leader as that other guy who stopped over for Victory Day. You probably missed him though since there were bigger dudes there so it's understandable.  Wink


    It is a very rare case, where I agree with you PapaDragon(most of people in Palestine are Sunnis but it is Shia Iran that does the most for them and these asshole Palestinians are not even grateful for that.) Even during the start of the "Arab Spring" Muslims from all around the world came to destroy Muslim countries(why don't they do the same against Israel.)

    Russia has been very careful not to fall in a trap and they have done a great job of doing what they came to do, I am very pro-Iranian but I don't think that Russia should help Iran militarily against Israel(it is Iran's war)  and I don't think that Iran should help Russia militarily in Ukraine, it is Russia's war(not that Russia needs helps but I hope you get the point.)

    par far

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  par far on Wed May 16, 2018 10:38 pm
















    I wonder where they will hit?







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    LMFS

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  LMFS on Wed May 16, 2018 11:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    I don't see what good Russia gets from close relations with Israel...
    Well, fact is Russia does not pursue the path of being an Iranian or Syrian ally but wants the role of a  big power, that is, the capacity to settle disputes in the region. To be a mediator you cannot take sides beyond your legit interests. They are not the White Knight fighting for world justice after all, and they better keep away from that.

    I was also very critical of last Moscow moves because I though they were only encouraging Israel to continue with their provocations, but fact is the escalation has been stopped. Maybe due to the not very successful Israeli attack (in fact some sources point to the counter-attack from Syria damaging valuable installations in Golan Heights) but IMHO also due to Russia's intervention behind closed doors. This de-escalation is the best solution I could think of. As for the S-300, this was a critical issue to Israel. If they managed to reassure them and keep the threat of a big scale intervention at bay for now while Syria keeps mopping up jihadists then that is a strategic victory.

    All in all, cool heads ended up prevailing as usually

    Vann7

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  Vann7 on Thu May 17, 2018 12:07 am



    You read it in this forums first..

    The political environment around Syria ,is ideal for another MH17 style false flag
    incident.. with a similar script.. a civilian airliner fly by "mistake" near the combat zone , and so
    the Pro Russian forces shut it down , and Russia operators and Government blamed for it.
    this is getting old already
    the false flags.. Im actually surprised we haven't seen more civilian airliners targeted by the "democratic" "Free"
    west and their adopted child , the modern Israel ,that had nothing to do with the biblical one but is another story.

    Such incident could happen any time ,and start with an ISRAEL provocation and then Syria retaliate ,then Isreal blow up and old plane that was about to be decommissioned ,and later blame it all on "animal Assad" and "likely" was Russia. Civilians could be taken from Morgues and deployed inside the plane for more realism.. and media propaganda. The Donetsk Government told this about the malasyan plane.. when they visit the crash scene ,they noticed the bodies
    in a high state of decomposition ,as if they died a week earlier before the plane crash . so there was bad smell ,like the ones people get after days a dead body is in the sun. Such false flag provocation ,however could more likely be used when Syria try to recapture Daraa ,the most closed city to Israel positions in Golan heights ,that Israel wants to control it.. So be warned of the idiots that will blame Assad or Russian Government for any other civilian airliner crash incident. But if not with planes it could happen over water.. a civilian passenger boat attacked and blamed on Syria.
    or a school bombed in Israel by a missile and blamed of Syria. False Flags are real and they do happen a lot in wars.
    The baltics area is another zone false flags stage by NATO top powers ,could happen.. with Civilians killed and Russia blamed for it.

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    flamming_python

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  flamming_python on Thu May 17, 2018 12:10 am

    par far wrote:No really, this is politics and this is how politics work. Russia probably got something in return for doing this.

    It's called helping an ally.

    A foreign concept actually for Russia, that never does anything for its allies and that's why it has virtually none left.

    For Syria Russia actually has done a hell of a lot. But it will all be for nothing if the country is then crippled through bombing and territorial division by foreign powers. Those Russian soldiers would have died for nothing too.

    Isos wrote:
    And the backing off from supplying the S-300 is a betrayal and made Russia lose prestige.. again all for the sake of Israel. Syrians deserve a safe & secure sky as much as any other country in the world does.

    I think rosoboronexport is not that much happy to see S-300 in Syrian hands. First because they don't have the money to pay it so it would be a gift from russia and second they totally suck at operating advanced systems so Israel will destroy the few systems Syria could receive and it would impact S-300 image.  The pantsir story just proves it.

    It's a fair point, I can't deny it.

    I just think that geopolitical concerns Trump™️ commercial ones at this stage.

    And if the Syrians can't operate them properly then have Russians operate them. And tell everyone that anyone targeting said systems will be risking Russian military retaliation.

    The final straw came after the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in 1979, when volunteers from across the Arab world rushed to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, in a way that they had never shown the slightest indication of wanting to do against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians.

    The secular Arab nationalists and socialist parties (Soviet allies) were quite different to the volunteers from across the Arab world influenced by Wahhabist ideology from Saudi Arabia (not a Russian ally).

    Secular Arab regimes invaded Israel several times in any attempt to create Palestine.

    Seriously, what the hell is this article talking about.

    BB is about as western leader as that other guy who stopped over for Victory Day. You probably missed him though since there were bigger dudes there so it's understandable.  Wink

    Barzani?

    Well yeah, Putin just wanted to be seen movin' and shaking with Bibi; makes him honored to have foreign leaders arriving on May 9th and paying tribute, all kingmaker like.

    But the fact is that Putin is not going to decide anything in the Middle East if this carries on.

    KiloGolf wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I don't see what good Russia gets from close relations with Israel

    Israel is the dominant power in that region. If Russia wants to succeed with their Syria project, they need to be in good terms with Israel.

    No, it just needs to tell Israel that Russia's the new dominant power in the region and if Israel wants to fight its war with Iran it better do it without going anywhere near the SAA or Syrian territory for that matter; unless Iran actually attacks them first.. which so far they haven't.

    Trying to be 'in good terms with Israel' has only ensured that Israel tries to instead prove itself the great power in the region and the one that has the right to do anything it wants without provocation and at any time.. and all that it's beholden to do is inform Moscow a little in advance, or not even that sometimes.
    It has literally given Russia nothing, this relationship.

    LMFS wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    I don't see what good Russia gets from close relations with Israel...
    Well, fact is Russia does not pursue the path of being an Iranian or Syrian ally but wants the role of a  big power, that is, the capacity to settle disputes in the region. To be a mediator you cannot take sides beyond your legit interests. They are not the White Knight fighting for world justice after all, and they better keep away from that.

    I was also very critical of last Moscow moves because I though they were only encouraging Israel to continue with their provocations, but fact is the escalation has been stopped. Maybe due to the not very successful Israeli attack (in fact some sources point to the counter-attack from Syria damaging valuable installations in Golan Heights) but IMHO also due to Russia's intervention behind closed doors. This de-escalation is the best solution I could think of. As for the S-300, this was a critical issue to Israel. If they managed to reassure them and keep the threat of a big scale intervention at bay for now while Syria keeps mopping up jihadists then that is a strategic victory.

    All in all, cool heads ended up prevailing as usually

    What bloody mediator?

    It's a battle for the control of the Middle East.

    Western alliance vs. all the regimes in its way. Only ones left are Iran and Syria.
    If the West wins it will be a disaster for Russia.
    Therefore it's logical to back Iran and Syria, is it not?

    And although Israel tries to be genuinely neutral vis-a-vis the Russia-West thing, ultimately it cannot be, it's part of the same Western agenda in the Middle East, it's interests cannot be facilitated because they will always have the same enemies that the Americans have - and the Americans will always have those enemies that are the same countries standing between them and Russia & China.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  eehnie on Thu May 17, 2018 12:26 am

    calm wrote:It will be interesting to see where will SAA go next in upcoming weeks/months. Now after Damascus / Homs / Hama road is completely secured after Ghouta, Qalamoun and Rastan rebels are defeated and removed.

    If the ISIS pocket to the West of the Euphrates would be real, Syrian troops should be going there. But I do not expect a fight. Time to see how real is this pocket. In the case of the ISIS pocket painted in Iraq near the border of Syria, the reality is proving that while Iraq is attacking the ISIS in Syria there are not attacks in the supposed pocket inside Iraq. These pockets only remain painted to cover the delay of the US coalition in the area of Syria to the East of the Euphrates.

    After the fall of the ISIS in Damascus, that seems matter of days...
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  JohninMK on Thu May 17, 2018 12:41 am

    eehnie wrote:Retaliation 1: Syria in full control of Homs.

    Map posters not interested in to show the fall of the pocket.






    Last edited by JohninMK on Thu May 17, 2018 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  JohninMK on Thu May 17, 2018 12:47 am

    Not sure of the status of this poster but map looks good.


    Hammurabi's Justice News
    ‏ @Hammurabi_News
    9h9 hours ago

    Map by pro-#SDF accounts, approved by the @CJTFOIR Generals shows that the SDF have secured the border with #Iraq in support of #ISF & #CJTFOIR, also the map confirmed our report this noon which mentioned "still ongoing clashes around AlBagoz Fowqani".


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    LMFS

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  LMFS on Thu May 17, 2018 12:48 am

    flamming_python wrote:What bloody mediator?

    It's a battle for the control of the Middle East.

    Western alliance vs. all the regimes in its way. Only ones left are Iran and Syria.
    If the West wins it will be a disaster for Russia.
    Therefore it's logical to back Iran and Syria, is it not?

    And although Israel tries to be genuinely neutral vis-a-vis the Russia-West thing, ultimately it cannot be, it's part of the same Western agenda in the Middle East, it's interests cannot be facilitated because they will always have the same enemies that the Americans have - and the Americans will always have those enemies that are the same countries standing between them and Russia & China.
    I understand what you mean and share it to a big extent, but consider for instance Turkey. They shot down a Su-24 practically yesterday and today Erdogan is buying the S-400... posture of the countries can change. Israel is an arm of the western empire, of course, but will have to ultimately behave accordingly to its geopolitical constraints. They are already engaging with SCO for instance, and you would not expect say Trump at the Victory Day Parade but Netanyahu was there. Russia works on the long run and until now results are proving them damn right I would say...
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    eehnie

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  eehnie on Thu May 17, 2018 1:31 am

    The reality is different to what some clear pro-Israel people is saying:

    1.- Russia and Syria created a Joint Air Defense System in Syria.

    2.- Russia obviously leads the Joint Air Defense System in Syria.

    3.- As leaders of the Joint Air Defense System high rank Russian military personel worked on Air Defense while the Israeli attack of the last week.

    4.- The Russian Ministry of Defense offered data, internal data provided by their own personel, about the work and effectiveness of the Joint Air Defense System against the Israeli attack, that was high.

    Then yes, Russia helps to Syria actively against every air/missile attack from the US or Israel.

    And Russia has not problem leaving it clear. Only the zionists here try to hide it. Russia instead is taking international credit as high quality air defense systems designers, and as high quality air defense system operators.

    Also, if Israel is not showing the impact places of the rockets fired against them in the Golan, is because they did real damage.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu May 17, 2018 3:26 am

    flamming_python wrote:Secular Arab regimes invaded Israel several times in any attempt to create Palestine.

    Not true, simply.. not... true...

    At risk of going off topic again, people need to stop repeating BS Zionist talking points. The only hostilities initiated by Arab regimes was 1973, and that was an attempt to recover territory taken by Zionistan after their 1967 aggression. 1948 doesn't count, neither does 1967, for reasons previously posted.

    Don't pollute this forum with lies and BS...
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    LMFS

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  LMFS on Thu May 17, 2018 4:03 am

    New piece by Elijah Magnier on Russia's role in Syria. Very recommendable:

    https://ejmagnier.com/2018/05/16/russia-is-in-the-middle-east-to-halt-the-war-not-take-part-in-the-iran-israel-conflict/
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  flamming_python on Thu May 17, 2018 11:57 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Secular Arab regimes invaded Israel several times in any attempt to create Palestine.

    Not true, simply.. not... true...

    At risk of going off topic again, people need to stop repeating BS Zionist talking points.  The only hostilities initiated by Arab regimes was 1973, and that was an attempt to recover territory taken by Zionistan after their 1967 aggression.  1948 doesn't count, neither does 1967, for reasons previously posted.

    Don't pollute this forum with lies and BS...

    In 1948 Jordan, Syria and Egypt were invaded by Israel then?

    Listen I don't particularly know the history nor do I particularly care.

    All I was saying is that it's patently false to claim that Arabs never engaged Israel on the behalf of the Palestinians.
    It's still happening today, as you can see with Hezbollah.

    The only Arabs that didn't fight the Israelis were other US allies such as Saudi Arabia and the Emirates.
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    starman

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

    Post  starman on Thu May 17, 2018 12:23 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    I don't see what good Russia gets from close relations with Israel; apart from maybe having to avoid militarily confronting the US and Israel both.. but all Russia really needs to do is avoid confronting both at the same time - and smart diplomacy and political maneuvering is enough to accomplish that.

    Fact is Russia gains nothing in terms of the Muslim world's respect by pursuing relations with a country that yesterday alone killed dozens of unarmed Palestinians; including children, aid workers and journalists. Influence in Israel is worth squat - it's hated by its neighbours and now will be all the more so, it's population is not particularly positively disposed towards Russia, it's a small country and economy in the scheme of things that affects little outside its borders. It has some nice technologies but nothing Russia can't develop itself or get elsewhere. Besides that it's always been the eyes and ears of the US in the Middle East and will remain so.. our leaders are harboring some ridiculous delusions.

    Russia also gains nothing by facilitating Israeli interests in Syria at the expense of the Syrians and Iranians; while the Israelis keep trying to send their little 'messages' anyway. Syria cannot be secured until Israeli military presence from it is expelled. Syria is effectively Russia's military ally and while the danger of confrontation with the US persists, Iran is effectively too. They will have our back, not the Israelis.

    I agree and I already addressed, point by point that negative post about Russian relations with the arabs.
    The crux of the problem is that, for now, the emphasis has to be on the civil war, crushing the terrorists. To do that, Russia must keep relations with Israel peaceful. Like I said before, I think Russian policy will change when the civil war is finally wrapped up and attention refocuses on Israel (largely because of atrocities against the Palestinians). I know this is very difficult time because Israel has mercilessly exploited the civil war to strike Syria. But Russia and Syria will just have to grit their teeth until the internal mess is cleaned up.

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    Re: Syrian War: News #18

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