Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Share
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2163
    Points : 2157
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Isos on Thu May 03, 2018 11:01 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    To be honest, new weapons with scramjet propulsion look to have rather more growth potential... but we will see.

    What it does suggest is that the UKSK.... or universal launcher... is becoming more universal...

    Remember not every ship needs 2,500km range cruise missiles, and for some short range tactical missiles with 400kg+ warheads moving at very high speeds can be just the ticket...


    They said Iskander. My interpretation was Iskander rocket nor cruise missile (otherwise why to specify calibers and iskanders apart? ) . Me wonders why ballistic rocket on ship? kind of stealth sub Dongfeng-21 ?


    The thing thet worries me is diameter 0,95 /iskander  vs. 0,7 Onix


    It's unlikely they put iskander in a sub with new lunch systems while they try to uniformize the missiles for UKSK lunchers. The source is not reliable too. Just fan conception.
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 836
    Points : 836
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Hole on Thu May 03, 2018 11:28 am

    The could convert a few Kilos to carry Iskanders. Would be useful in the Baltic Sea.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7082
    Points : 7178
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 03, 2018 1:34 pm


    There won't be any Iskanders on subs, that thing is a fanart and source is BS

    They just meshed together Yasen and Akula

    That poster photo from Malakhit is way more realistic than this
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 836
    Points : 836
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Hole on Thu May 03, 2018 4:48 pm

    They will not put it on a large nuclear sub for sure. It would have to come to close to the shore to be effective. Why put an expensive sub in danger? But a modified Kilo with 4 or 8 Iskanders would be a very effective weapon in the Baltic or Black Sea.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18107
    Points : 18667
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 6:51 am

    They said Iskander. My interpretation was Iskander rocket nor cruise missile (otherwise why to specify calibers and iskanders apart? ) . Me wonders why ballistic rocket on ship? kind of stealth sub Dongfeng-21 ?

    A couple of things... first of all a naval Iskander is not limited in range or payload by the INF treaty, so while the Iskander that we know is limited to 500km range, any naval or air launched model is not.

    Second... the new Kinzhal has a body shape very similar to Iskander... perhaps they have made air and ship/sub launched models with greatly boosted range and speed performance... so that if or when the INF treaty is folded... Mk41 launch tubes in eastern europe already violate that agreement anyway so if the US refuses to stop violating the INF agreement and remove its land based AEGIS system then Russia could deploy a land based solid fuelled rocket with much better performance than Iskander... say Iskander II... all the development could be done via a naval version so when the agreement no longer applies they can deploy new missiles immediately?

    On a ship, the semi ballistic Iskander without range restrictions could be useful... it manouvers to evade interception, has very high speed and excellent terminal accuracy.

    The thing thet worries me is diameter 0,95 /iskander vs. 0,7 Onix

    Would be a bit of an issue... maybe make the naval version narrower and much longer to fit the available space...

    They will not put it on a large nuclear sub for sure. It would have to come to close to the shore to be effective. Why put an expensive sub in danger? But a modified Kilo with 4 or 8 Iskanders would be a very effective weapon in the Baltic or Black Sea.

    A naval model with perhaps 1,500km range and perhaps a really big solid rocket booster to get it to high altitude and moving fast... the way the MiG-31 gets the  Kinzhal moving before release... I mean, 2,000km range and mach 10 flight speed is impressive... having it available on the end of a MiG-31 or a Tu-22M3M is impressive performance enough, but having it pop up anywhere on the planet from a new SSGN would be very interesting too.... and making it compatible with the UKSK launcher means even corvettes could carry it... as will pretty much every new Russian armed ship.

    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3153
    Points : 3195
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 05, 2018 10:30 am

    GarryB wrote:

    A couple of things... first of all a naval Iskander is not limited in range or payload by the INF treaty, so while the Iskander that we know is limited to 500km range, any naval or air launched model is not.

    Second... the new Kinzhal has a body shape very similar to Iskander... perhaps they have made air and ship/sub launched models with greatly boosted range and speed performance... so that if or when the INF treaty is folded... Mk41 launch tubes in eastern europe already violate that agreement anyway so if the US refuses to stop violating the INF agreement and remove its land based AEGIS system then Russia could deploy a land based solid fuelled rocket with much better performance than Iskander... say Iskander II... all the development could be done via a naval version so when the agreement no longer applies they can deploy new missiles immediately?

    On a ship, the semi ballistic Iskander without range restrictions could be useful... it manouvers to evade interception, has very high speed and excellent terminal accuracy.


    all makes sense technically. But if navalized Iskander is real then I bet on anti ship application (LHDs, CVNs beyond escort interception range) not to bomb shores.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7082
    Points : 7178
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 26, 2018 9:39 pm


    According to this article construction of first Husky is to start this year by I am suspicions about it...

    New Russian Submarine to Merge With Ocean

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201805261064843122-russian-nuclear-husky-submarine/

    The concept of the submarine has already been accepted and its construction is set to start in 2018, with the last unit of the first batch slated for completion by 2025...........
    avatar
    Eduardo

    Posts : 1
    Points : 1
    Join date : 2018-05-26

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Eduardo on Sat May 26, 2018 9:59 pm

    Very bad article!
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7082
    Points : 7178
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 26, 2018 10:19 pm

    Eduardo wrote:Very bad article!

    I know, hence disclaimer
    avatar
    dino00

    Posts : 228
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Location : portugal

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  dino00 on Sat May 26, 2018 10:47 pm

    I have read minutes before in Sputnik, and tought what a mess... But thanks for posting
    I am Eduardo, was a mistake to post with That account Rolling Eyes
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3153
    Points : 3195
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun May 27, 2018 1:00 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Eduardo wrote:Very bad article!

    I know, hence disclaimer



    This article is poorly translated RIA fan article which is extract form an interview for Izvestia. The interview was with Aleksey Rakhmanov, head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC).

    https://iz.ru/743521/nikolai-surkov/khaski-s-sekretom

    Thats about Husky, is sounds better huh?

    - When can we expect the appearance of the fifth generation nuclear submarines?

    - We have already completed the conceptual design of the prospective fifth generation "Husky" submarine, as well as the definition of its appearance. Several variants have been proposed, now they have to choose the optimal one. Now the tactical and technical characteristics of the new boat are being developed. The rest about the "Husky" - while the military secret.

    this below is not about Husky but also interesting Smile

    The USA is now actively developing autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicles. What domestic shipbuilders can offer the Navy?

    - We are also developing autonomous combat complexes - today this is one of the key trends in the development of the armed forces of any country in the world. SPBMM Malakhit and CDB MT Rubin are working on the design of systems provided with their own autonomous power plant, with an integrated system of orientation and, of course, management.

    I can not talk about this in detail, for obvious reasons, but I assure you: we have something to offer. And, by the way, civil projects in this field are developing at least as actively.

    For example, we agreed with the Foundation for Advanced Studies to develop robots for solving research problems: it is mapping the bottom, inspecting bottom objects, studying the soil and water column and so on. The development of autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicles is underway, which will be engaged in the exploration of the continental shelf in the Arctic Ocean - to search for oil and gas deposits, draw up bottom maps necessary for the construction of engineering structures for the extraction and transportation of hydrocarbons. These devices can contactlessly exchange information and undergo recharging.

    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3153
    Points : 3195
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 31, 2018 4:07 pm

    Source: the first submarine of the fifth generation "Husky" will be built by 2027


    MOSCOW, May 31. / TASS /. The construction of the fifth generation nuclear submarine "Husky" armed with hypersonic missiles "Zircon" is planned to be completed by 2027. This was reported by a source in the Russian military-industrial complex.


    "Husky" is included in the state arms program for 2018-2027. Experimental design work on the construction of submarines of this class is planned to begin in 2023, and to hand over the main ship - until the end of 2027, "the source said.

    He also added that "the main armament of the new multipurpose submarine will be hypersonic anti-ship missiles" Zircon. "
    At the same time, according to the source, the results of research work already carried out on the design of this submarine are "considered unsatisfactory," since they "do not meet the customer's requirements."
    Representatives of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) did not comment on this information by TASS.

    "Husky" and "Zircon"

    In early 2014, the design bureau "Malachite" announced the design of a multi-purpose nuclear submarine of the fifth generation. In 2016 the code of the project "Husky" became known. Initially, the research work was carried out by the design bureau in an initiative order, in 2016 a contract was signed with the RF Ministry of Defense. At the end of April 2018, the head of USC Alexei Rakhmanov reported that the Husky project would be finalized in accordance with the remarks of the Russian Navy. Construction, as expected, will deal with the "Northern Machine Building Enterprise".

    The tactical and technical characteristics of the future submarine are classified. According to open sources, "Husky", traditionally for the domestic fleet, will be a two-hull, its displacement will not exceed 12 thousand tons. The submarine will be equipped with the latest combat information management system, a hydroacoustic complex and an integration system into the unified information space of the Russian Armed Forces.

    A universal missile system with a hypersonic missile "Zircon" was developed by the "NGO Mashinostroeniya" and is currently being tested. It is expected to be placed on air and sea carriers.

    Now a series of multipurpose submarines of the project 885 "Ash" is being built in Russia (the fourth generation - TASS comment). Of the seven such submarines, the construction of which was planned by the state armament program for 2011-2020, so far only one has been commissioned - K-560 Severodvinsk.


    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5251849





    dino00 wrote:
    I am Eduardo, was a mistake to post with That account Rolling Eyes

    no problemo mate thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup




    avatar
    dino00

    Posts : 228
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Location : portugal

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  dino00 on Thu May 31, 2018 6:03 pm

    I am portuguese thumbsup thumbsup

    Lets hope the Russian mod has very high standards for the husky, and the designer can metros them...in the future.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7082
    Points : 7178
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 31, 2018 7:29 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    Source: the first submarine of the fifth generation "Husky" will be built by 2027





    ............
    At the same time, according to the source, the results of research work already carried out on the design of this submarine are "considered unsatisfactory," since they "do not meet the customer's requirements.".....


    So basically they are trying to sucker MoD into dropping cash on unfinished product (again).

    Hopefully MoD will tell them to go have intercourse with their own mothers and order some more Yasens in the meantime. 2023 is long way of still, there is plenty of time to both build Yasens and fine-tune Husky.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2581
    Points : 2563
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 31, 2018 8:03 pm

    Exactly

    I prefer to just build more of a proven/ready design and then move to a new platform when all the upgrade options have been exhausted. Husky I think should go on shelf till they come up with a design that truly makes it more impressive than Yasens.

    Or come up with a nuclear submarine that would make a good SSBN or SSGN (multipurpose in design).
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2163
    Points : 2157
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Isos on Thu May 31, 2018 10:22 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Exactly

    I prefer to just build more of a proven/ready design and then move to a new platform when all the upgrade options have been exhausted.  Husky I think should go on shelf till they come up with a design that truly makes it more impressive than Yasens.

    Or come up with a nuclear submarine that would make a good SSBN or SSGN (multipurpose in design).

    They already released a design for husky. It looked too much futuristic. Yasen are very good and would be cheaper compare to futuristic design.

    They should propose to india some Yasen and then replace them with export Husky. It would be stupid to let indian market for nuclear subs to local or european/US industries. They already want it. Maybe build two for them and give them the first one that is the old version. That would be 3+2 akula SSN for indian navy and in ten or fifteen years sell them 5 husky. Billion dollars contract.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3153
    Points : 3195
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:40 am

    Hmm and what about cause some technologies do not exist yet? Look at timeline, they rejected something to only wait 5 years to start buliding "prototype" ? there must be very advanced solutions requested that require time to mature enough so they can be incorporated into ship...
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7082
    Points : 7178
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:18 am

    Isos wrote:......
    They should propose to india some Yasen and then replace them with export Husky. It would be stupid to let indian market for nuclear subs to local or european/US industries. They already want it. Maybe build two for them and give them the first one that is the old version. That would be 3+2 akula SSN for indian navy and in ten or fifteen years sell them 5 husky. Billion dollars contract.

    Far better approach would be to take the money that implementation of any contract with India would require, put it all on a big pile, pour gasoline on it and light it on fire.

    Much better use of funds.

    If India wants Yasens that's their problem because Russia needs those Yasens and letting Indians anywhere near them would be act of cosmic stupidity.

    What will Indians want next?

    Maybe Americans can loan them couple of Zumwalts and half a dozen B-2 bombers on discount? Throw in a Ford-class carrier with full complement of F-35s for free.

    Because that makes more sense than Russia giving them most advanced vessel that they ever created.

    Also, there is no such thing as market for nuclear subs, nobody sells those and if they do they are complete morons.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3153
    Points : 3195
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:22 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    If India wants Yasens that's their problem because Russia needs those Yasens and letting Indians anywhere near them would be act of cosmic stupidity.

    If there are possibilities to build export what is the problem? Russian wont build them anymore anyway.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7082
    Points : 7178
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:50 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    If India wants Yasens that's their problem because Russia needs those Yasens and letting Indians anywhere near them would be act of cosmic stupidity.

    If there are possibilities to build export what is the problem? Russian wont build them anymore anyway.

    There is none, they are barely building submarines they need for themselves.

    If it turns out that they are building nuke subs for anyone but Russian Navy it will mean that somebody committed treason in order to line his pockets.

    And who is to say that they are done with Yasens? They were also done with Borei-As and look what happened with that.

    And who the hell builds new nuclear submarines for others​ anyway? Even USA doesn't do it for their allies, French and British have to design and build their own.
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 832
    Points : 832
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:03 am

    Russia to build 5th-generation nuclear sub with hypersonic missiles by 2027, source says
    The results of the R&D work that has been carried out by now to design this submarine "have been recognized as unsatisfactory" as "they fail to meet the customer’s requirements," the source added. The United Ship-Building Corporation did not comment on this information for TASS. http://tass.com/defense/1007427
    If so, how can they be sure that it'll even be ready "by 2027"?!
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7082
    Points : 7178
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:29 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia to build 5th-generation nuclear sub with hypersonic missiles by 2027, source says
    The results of the R&D work that has been carried out by now to design this submarine "have been recognized as unsatisfactory" as "they fail to meet the customer’s requirements," the source added. The United Ship-Building Corporation did not comment on this information for TASS. http://tass.com/defense/1007427
    If so, how can they be sure that it'll even be ready "by 2027"?!

    They can't
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3153
    Points : 3195
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 76
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:29 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia to build 5th-generation nuclear sub with hypersonic missiles by 2027, source says
    The results of the R&D work that has been carried out by now to design this submarine "have been recognized as unsatisfactory" as "they fail to meet the customer’s requirements," the source added. The United Ship-Building Corporation did not comment on this information for TASS. http://tass.com/defense/1007427
    If so, how can they be sure that it'll even be ready "by 2027"?!

    They can. Imagine situation:

    a) Prototype does not mean ready for service
    b) most of design work is already in place
    c) only some technological solutions are to be matured

    what about that?




    PapaDragon wrote: They can't
    because?
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2163
    Points : 2157
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:45 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Far better approach would be to take the money that implementation of any contract with India would require, put it all on a big pile, pour gasoline on it and light it on fire.

    Much better use of funds.

    If India wants Yasens that's their problem because Russia needs those Yasens and letting Indians anywhere near them would be act of cosmic stupidity.

    What will Indians want next?

    Maybe Americans can loan them couple of Zumwalts and half a dozen B-2 bombers on discount? Throw in a Ford-class carrier with full complement of F-35s for free.

    Because that makes more sense than Russia giving them most advanced vessel that they ever created.

    Also, there is no such thing as market for nuclear subs, nobody sells those and if they do they are complete morons.

    Selling 2 of them to India doesn't mean russia won't get 2. It only means they will produce two more. They already lease them the best available akula, so the market for nuclear subs exists.

    Russia won't give them domestic version but an export one. They already sell state of art s-400 to a nato country, why not nuclear subs to india ?
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 832
    Points : 832
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:15 pm

    The Indians r building their own SSNs & SSBNs; I doubt they'll be interested in Russian SSGNs even if they could afford them.
    https://defenceupdate.in/ssn-submarine-indias-next-generation-nuclear-attack-submarines/
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-kick-starts-mother-of-all-underwater-defence-deals/articleshow/59730200.cms
    https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/india-launches-second-ballistic-missile-sub/
    Leasing Russian SSNs is for training & isn't = buying.
    Besides, locally built subs will cost less & those $ won't be leaving the country. Plus they don't want to upset the US with whom they cultivate defense relations, esp. after ordering S-400s for $6B: https://www.google.com/search?biw=888&bih=516&tbm=nws&ei=2LMRW9a0HtTj9AOx1brgBA&q=+India+S-400&oq=+India+S-400&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0.39100.42109.0.43172.7.7.0.0.0.0.770.1445.5-1j1.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.1.674....0.TU7uQvtiS0M

    Sponsored content

    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:56 pm