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    5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:50 pm

    The different layers of salinity and temperature of the water have impact on sound propagation. Russian subs can hide under those layers but that has the same impact on their own sonars so if no one can detect them they also can't detect anyone.

    Subs are not so stealth during engagement. The loading of torpedo or even opening of torpedo tubes makes noise and could be spoted by trained crew.

    Russia has followed the newest western subs like UK ssbn or even SSK in the mediteranean.

    There was also an argetinian diesel sub of german construction that launched some torpedo against an UK ship but the torpedo didn't work. I think they detected the launch but were not sure and didn't track the torpedo.
    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:28 pm

    kumbor wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:Don't forget the Proj 954 & 954A Sierra/Barracuda-Condor.  Their maximum depth was at least 600m.  

    So is for Yasen

    Just buld more of those in the 5 year gap until they switch to Husky

    For increase in diving depth you need new hull materials, e.g. Titanium. Russians gave up building of new subs with Ti hulls, as the increase in cost was immense. However, Ti hulls are not prone to corrosion, so they have practically unlimited lifespan.
    Newest AS torpedoes have increased depth of action, down to 1000m, but depth affects speed and manoeuvrability.

    Russian subs are well known for their increased diving depth, compared to western subs. But, you must know how to use benefits of deep diving and hydroacoustic parameters of the layers of seawater.
    Also, we must know the difference between maximum working depth, maximum permissible depth in war and crushing depth. These are different things! Security factor should be no less than 1,5 between maximum operational depth and crushing depth.

    Why?
    The cheapest steel has a strength of 140 N/mm^2, it translate to 14000 meter deep.

    Means only the wall thickness is the upper limit.

    But that is the reason why the CCCP/RuN use double hull construction.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:23 am

    kumbor wrote:
    Newest AS torpedoes have increased depth of action, down to 1000m, but depth affects speed and manoeuvrability.

    All torpedos that use combustive-propulsion technologies have performances that are inversely proportional with operating depth. Raising the pressure at which the combustion-gases are rejected (ie due to the hydrostatic ambient at depth) reduces the available work output from an engine. Electric torpedos don't suffer this performance degradation, but they are limited by battery technologies and still don't pack the energy density of liquid fuels/mono-propellants.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:38 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    kumbor wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:Don't forget the Proj 954 & 954A Sierra/Barracuda-Condor.  Their maximum depth was at least 600m.  

    So is for Yasen

    Just buld more of those in the 5 year gap until they switch to Husky

    For increase in diving depth you need new hull materials, e.g. Titanium. Russians gave up building of new subs with Ti hulls, as the increase in cost was immense. However, Ti hulls are not prone to corrosion, so they have practically unlimited lifespan.
    Newest AS torpedoes have increased depth of action, down to 1000m, but depth affects speed and manoeuvrability.

    Russian subs are well known for their increased diving depth, compared to western subs. But, you must know how to use benefits of deep diving and hydroacoustic parameters of the layers of seawater.
    Also, we must know the difference between maximum working depth, maximum permissible depth in war and crushing depth. These are different things! Security factor should be no less than 1,5 between maximum operational depth and crushing depth.

    Why?
    The cheapest steel has a strength of 140 N/mm^2, it translate to 14000 meter deep.

    Means only the wall thickness is the upper limit.

    But that is the reason why the CCCP/RuN use double hull construction.

    There is more involved in making a submarine able to operate in deep water than simply hull thickness. All wetted systems need to be operable at such pressures, all piping systems need to be up-rated, all inter-compartmental transits for electrical, piping, air, instruments, services need to be fully rated for max working depth, ballast systems need sufficient air pressure to be able to operate against worst case hydrostatic ambient (you cannot push water from your ballast tanks if your air receiver pressure is less than the environment).

    All things considered, the building of large subs capable of operating at 600m+ depths is VERY difficult and expensive, and that's why so few nations attempt it.
    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:49 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    There is more involved in making a submarine able to operate in deep water than simply hull thickness. All wetted systems need to be operable at such pressures, all piping systems need to be up-rated, all inter-compartmental  transits for electrical, piping, air, instruments, services need to be fully rated for max working depth, ballast systems need sufficient air pressure to be able to operate against worst case hydrostatic ambient (you cannot push water from your ballast tanks if your air receiver pressure is less than the environment).  

    All things considered, the building of large subs capable of operating at 600m+ depths is VERY difficult and expensive, and that's why so few nations attempt it.

    It is about hull thickness, and about the material strenght per kg unit.

    Everything else is just minor cost item, the main cost driver of the submarine is the hull thickness.

    And this is a complicated story, the specific strenght of the material gives the hull mass, and that give an upper limit to the mass of the equipment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength

    So, if the hull lighter, then there is more mass for internal equipment, means higher mass of machines


    But of course the harder materials are dificult to form and weld, and the submarine hull has very strict geometrical requirements.

    The small diameter internal pipework / holes and so on not so chalanging to design.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:53 pm

    Vladimir Dorofeev, General Director of the Malachite St. Petersburg Marine Engineering Bureau. about husky:

    We do not comment on this. But the work to determine the appearance of a promising multi-purpose submarine of the next generation has been carried out and, as I have already said, presented to the customer in the person of the Ministry of Defense. Now it would be wrong to reveal all the directions and features of the promising submarine, so I’ll say this: fifth-generation submarines will meet all the promising requirements of the Navy and will be able to effectively fend off emerging threats.

    (Later on the interview)

    A modular approach, a universal platform - how relevant and applicable are these concepts to what you are talking about and what you are doing?

    Vladimir Dorofeev: The modularity and unification of ships for different purposes for component equipment can significantly facilitate their operation - this is due to the possibility of group ordering of spare parts, as well as reducing the cost of the entire life cycle of ships. Unification has always been. Starting from the second generation, nuclear power plants were unified, the type range of pumping equipment was developed, the basic electronic weapons systems, on the basis of which modifications were created depending on the tasks to be performed for boats of various purposes.

    Prospective ship is not an exception. With regard to it, modularity as a principle and approach will not only develop, but increase in scale ...

    What do you mean?

    Vladimir Dorofeev: The fact that not only separate systems can be created in the form of standardized modules, but also functionally allocated rooms on submarines. Even parts of the ship. Relatively speaking, it can be divided into three zones: a unified nasal extremity, a unified aft extremity, and the middle part can be transformable and replaceable - for various types of combat load.

    All interview:
    https://rg.ru/2018/12/18/vladimir-dorofeev-perspektivnye-podlodki-stanut-modulnymi.html
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:42 am

    Source: Russia began development work on the creation of the fifth generation nuclear submarine

    The submarine will have a modular design and an integrated command and control system with artificial intelligence, as well as be equipped with Zircon hypersonic rockets, the TASS source said

    MOSCOW, April 17th. / Tass /. St. Petersburg Marine Engineering Bureau "Malachite" began development work (OCD) under the code "Laika" to create a fifth-generation multipurpose nuclear submarine. This was announced on Wednesday TASS source in the military-industrial complex.


    According to him, in the “end of 2018, Malachite completed research work under the Husky cipher with defining the appearance of the fifth-generation multipurpose nuclear submarine, the results of the work were approved by the military department.”

    "After" Malachite "proceeded to the next stage of the creation of the submarine - OCD under the code" Laika, "said the agency interlocutor.

    He did not disclose the estimated technical characteristics of the submarine under development, but noted that "one of its types of strike weapons will be Zircon hypersonic rockets. The source added that the Laika will have a modular design and a single integrated combat control system with artificial intelligence."

    In the United Shipbuilding Corporation did not comment TASS information about the beginning of the ROC "Laika".

    In June 2018, in the annual report "Malachite" it was reported that the ROC to create a promising multi-purpose nuclear submarine of the new generation should begin in 2019. The document noted that the work was envisaged in the draft state armament program for the period 2018-2027, the code of the work was not indicated.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6342094
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:45 pm

    dino00 wrote:Source: Russia began development work on the creation of the fifth generation nuclear submarine

    The submarine will have a modular design and an integrated command and control system with artificial intelligence, as well as be equipped with Zircon hypersonic rockets, the TASS source said

    MOSCOW, April 17th. / Tass /. St. Petersburg Marine Engineering Bureau "Malachite" began development work (OCD) under the code "Laika" to create a fifth-generation multipurpose nuclear submarine. This was announced on Wednesday TASS source in the military-industrial complex.


    According to him, in the “end of 2018, Malachite completed research work under the Husky cipher with defining the appearance of the fifth-generation multipurpose nuclear submarine, the results of the work were approved by the military department.”

    "After" Malachite "proceeded to the next stage of the creation of the submarine - OCD under the code" Laika, "said the agency interlocutor.

    He did not disclose the estimated technical characteristics of the submarine under development, but noted that "one of its types of strike weapons will be Zircon hypersonic rockets. The source added that the Laika will have a modular design and a single integrated combat control system with artificial intelligence."

    In the United Shipbuilding Corporation did not comment TASS information about the beginning of the ROC "Laika".

    In June 2018, in the annual report "Malachite" it was reported that the ROC to create a promising multi-purpose nuclear submarine of the new generation should begin in 2019. The document noted that the work was envisaged in the draft state armament program for the period 2018-2027, the code of the work was not indicated.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6342094

    so "Husky" was renamed to " "Laika""?
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:24 am

    George1 wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Source: Russia began development work on the creation of the fifth generation nuclear submarine

    The submarine will have a modular design and an integrated command and control system with artificial intelligence, as well as be equipped with Zircon hypersonic rockets, the TASS source said

    MOSCOW, April 17th. / Tass /. St. Petersburg Marine Engineering Bureau "Malachite" began development work (OCD) under the code "Laika" to create a fifth-generation multipurpose nuclear submarine. This was announced on Wednesday TASS source in the military-industrial complex.


    According to him, in the “end of 2018, Malachite completed research work under the Husky cipher with defining the appearance of the fifth-generation multipurpose nuclear submarine, the results of the work were approved by the military department.”

    "After" Malachite "proceeded to the next stage of the creation of the submarine - OCD under the code" Laika, "said the agency interlocutor.

    He did not disclose the estimated technical characteristics of the submarine under development, but noted that "one of its types of strike weapons will be Zircon hypersonic rockets. The source added that the Laika will have a modular design and a single integrated combat control system with artificial intelligence."

    In the United Shipbuilding Corporation did not comment TASS information about the beginning of the ROC "Laika".

    In June 2018, in the annual report "Malachite" it was reported that the ROC to create a promising multi-purpose nuclear submarine of the new generation should begin in 2019. The document noted that the work was envisaged in the draft state armament program for the period 2018-2027, the code of the work was not indicated.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6342094

    so "Husky" was renamed to " "Laika""?

    R&D Laika, submarine Husky. They wouldn't dare call a Russian Navy submarine Laika paratrooper
    Laika/Husky all related

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