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    5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

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    Isos

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    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:50 pm

    The different layers of salinity and temperature of the water have impact on sound propagation. Russian subs can hide under those layers but that has the same impact on their own sonars so if no one can detect them they also can't detect anyone.

    Subs are not so stealth during engagement. The loading of torpedo or even opening of torpedo tubes makes noise and could be spoted by trained crew.

    Russia has followed the newest western subs like UK ssbn or even SSK in the mediteranean.

    There was also an argetinian diesel sub of german construction that launched some torpedo against an UK ship but the torpedo didn't work. I think they detected the launch but were not sure and didn't track the torpedo.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:28 pm

    kumbor wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:Don't forget the Proj 954 & 954A Sierra/Barracuda-Condor.  Their maximum depth was at least 600m.  

    So is for Yasen

    Just buld more of those in the 5 year gap until they switch to Husky

    For increase in diving depth you need new hull materials, e.g. Titanium. Russians gave up building of new subs with Ti hulls, as the increase in cost was immense. However, Ti hulls are not prone to corrosion, so they have practically unlimited lifespan.
    Newest AS torpedoes have increased depth of action, down to 1000m, but depth affects speed and manoeuvrability.

    Russian subs are well known for their increased diving depth, compared to western subs. But, you must know how to use benefits of deep diving and hydroacoustic parameters of the layers of seawater.
    Also, we must know the difference between maximum working depth, maximum permissible depth in war and crushing depth. These are different things! Security factor should be no less than 1,5 between maximum operational depth and crushing depth.

    Why?
    The cheapest steel has a strength of 140 N/mm^2, it translate to 14000 meter deep.

    Means only the wall thickness is the upper limit.

    But that is the reason why the CCCP/RuN use double hull construction.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:23 am

    kumbor wrote:
    Newest AS torpedoes have increased depth of action, down to 1000m, but depth affects speed and manoeuvrability.

    All torpedos that use combustive-propulsion technologies have performances that are inversely proportional with operating depth. Raising the pressure at which the combustion-gases are rejected (ie due to the hydrostatic ambient at depth) reduces the available work output from an engine. Electric torpedos don't suffer this performance degradation, but they are limited by battery technologies and still don't pack the energy density of liquid fuels/mono-propellants.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:38 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    kumbor wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:Don't forget the Proj 954 & 954A Sierra/Barracuda-Condor.  Their maximum depth was at least 600m.  

    So is for Yasen

    Just buld more of those in the 5 year gap until they switch to Husky

    For increase in diving depth you need new hull materials, e.g. Titanium. Russians gave up building of new subs with Ti hulls, as the increase in cost was immense. However, Ti hulls are not prone to corrosion, so they have practically unlimited lifespan.
    Newest AS torpedoes have increased depth of action, down to 1000m, but depth affects speed and manoeuvrability.

    Russian subs are well known for their increased diving depth, compared to western subs. But, you must know how to use benefits of deep diving and hydroacoustic parameters of the layers of seawater.
    Also, we must know the difference between maximum working depth, maximum permissible depth in war and crushing depth. These are different things! Security factor should be no less than 1,5 between maximum operational depth and crushing depth.

    Why?
    The cheapest steel has a strength of 140 N/mm^2, it translate to 14000 meter deep.

    Means only the wall thickness is the upper limit.

    But that is the reason why the CCCP/RuN use double hull construction.

    There is more involved in making a submarine able to operate in deep water than simply hull thickness. All wetted systems need to be operable at such pressures, all piping systems need to be up-rated, all inter-compartmental transits for electrical, piping, air, instruments, services need to be fully rated for max working depth, ballast systems need sufficient air pressure to be able to operate against worst case hydrostatic ambient (you cannot push water from your ballast tanks if your air receiver pressure is less than the environment).

    All things considered, the building of large subs capable of operating at 600m+ depths is VERY difficult and expensive, and that's why so few nations attempt it.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:49 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    There is more involved in making a submarine able to operate in deep water than simply hull thickness. All wetted systems need to be operable at such pressures, all piping systems need to be up-rated, all inter-compartmental  transits for electrical, piping, air, instruments, services need to be fully rated for max working depth, ballast systems need sufficient air pressure to be able to operate against worst case hydrostatic ambient (you cannot push water from your ballast tanks if your air receiver pressure is less than the environment).  

    All things considered, the building of large subs capable of operating at 600m+ depths is VERY difficult and expensive, and that's why so few nations attempt it.

    It is about hull thickness, and about the material strenght per kg unit.

    Everything else is just minor cost item, the main cost driver of the submarine is the hull thickness.

    And this is a complicated story, the specific strenght of the material gives the hull mass, and that give an upper limit to the mass of the equipment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength

    So, if the hull lighter, then there is more mass for internal equipment, means higher mass of machines


    But of course the harder materials are dificult to form and weld, and the submarine hull has very strict geometrical requirements.

    The small diameter internal pipework / holes and so on not so chalanging to design.

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    Re: 5th gen Husky-class nuclear submarine

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