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    Agriculture and Industry killing us

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:14 pm

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_btU99fsX5o


    The average height of humans , pre agriculture was two meters . Their diet consisted mainly of wild fruit and vegetables with a small amount of meat . Post agricultural revolution , the average height of humans were reduced to 1.7 meters . And their diet was replaced by farmed seeds . In the post Industrial period , we have been told to eat three square meals , containing from two to two and half thousand calories a day . This now consists of agricultural products . Processed and high calorie foods .

    Progressive dieticians now tell us that we need no more than 1500 calories per day . And to avoid disease we need to get these from slow metabolising foods such as vegetables and a little bit of meat . With very little daily intake of processed carbohydrates such as bread or rice . Cutting out all raw sugar .

    Of course your doctor or dietician may tell you otherwise . They believe in industrial medicine . And want to keep the profits of farmers and industrialists . Like a few years ago , smoking was not related to any cancers ! This problem affects all . But those who get a bit older , and are inactive suffer more . Health is 80 percent diet and 20 percent exercise . You don't have to eat three meals a day . You eat when you feel hungry . And you avoid agriculture .
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:30 pm

    Oh Jesus Christ... Rolling Eyes
    Is this a parody topic? Laughing

    1. Human height did decrease after introduction of agriculture but by 15 cm not 30. That initial shock was needed if humanity was ever to create civilization (productivity increasing technologies are unfeasible for hunter gatherer societies).

    2. 1500 kcal is an absolute mininum for someone not doing physical labor... and very short. Test such diet on a 2m tall lumberjack in Siberia.

    3. Link between smoking and cancer is known since 1930s, well known since 1960s. A study after study proved that.

    Is medicine really so bad? Life expectancy at birth increased from 30 to 80 years, child mortality decreased from 50% to under 1%, multiple diseases that previosly had devastated entire societies have been eradicated... is that not enough?
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:54 am

    ......"Walther von Oldenburg".......Oh Jesus Christ... :roll:
    Is this a parody topic? :lol:

    1. Human height did decrease after introduction of agriculture but by 15 cm not 30. That initial shock was needed if humanity was ever to create civilization (productivity increasing technologies are unfeasible for hunter gatherer societies).

    2. 1500 kcal is an absolute mininum for someone not doing physical labor... and very short. Test such diet on a 2m tall lumberjack in Siberia.

    3. Link between smoking and cancer is known since 1930s, well known since 1960s. A study after study proved that.

    Is medicine really so bad? Life expectancy at birth increased from 30 to 80 years, child mortality decreased from 50% to under 1%, multiple diseases that previosly had devastated entire societies have been eradicated... is that not enough? .........."


    I am serious about food . I have seen some very fat generals . Doing a lot of sitting work ! But also under sanctions , food is short in middle East . Even Iran . So new diet can help . With health and economy . Right so you agree that human height decreased . If we interpolate then in a few years we shall all be turned to slugs , crawling on the grass . But I am not talking about advances by medicine . That is good . But human lifespan is starting to decrease too . Despite medical advances . In USA for example with obesity and heart disease . Look at all these new Rock stars all dying young .

    My ancestors living in the cacaus mountains , lived an average of 90 to 100 years old . That was over seventy years ago . In region with no modern medicine . They had treatments for their illness . All local knowledge . Recently I talk to my doctor about a problem And she said " your illness is genetic ! " . But I know that is rubbish . It is environmental and occupational and dietary .

    I agree that an active person needs more than 1500 calories . But most of us do not have active lives . If I am right about a height correlation with agriculture . Then we should find the shortest people in earliest agricultural areas . And the tallest people in newly settled areas with recent agriculture . ( past two to three thousand years ) .

    I am going to eat some low calorie cabbage today......

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:00 am

    Eat what you like.

    IF you like fatty foods that is OK... but just be aware that if you have 5,000 Kalories a day you also need to run 500km a day too...

    The real problem is that money talks... the dairy industry will pay for studies that end up showing milk and cheese and butter are good for you, and the meat industry will fund studies that show meat is good for you too.

    I have heard all sorts of bullshit about eating meat... I remember one stupid bitch told me that red meat takes 3 years to digest in my stomach... to which I obviously replied that if it takes 3 years for red meat to digest then I must be shitting raw meat because the amount of red meat I have eaten in the last three years would fill a room in a house and sure as hell would not fit in my stomach... even though it is not as small as I would like it to be...

    Eggs are good for you, and then they are bad... I don't fucking care... you have to die of something... I realise as you get older then age is relative... when I was a teenager the people I knew who were 30 seemed really old... now they obviously seem very very young.

    I have never smoked... I remember friends who did say... yeah it might take 10 years off my life but they are 10 years off the end when I am like 90 and going blind and deaf and full of arthritis so it will be a good thing.

    Of course I thought in addition to shortening your lifespan it also is very very expensive here, and also that it does not just kill you it makes you sick and can ruin the quality of life too... starting only a few years after you start smoking... morning coughs anyone?

    The real problem is that there is no independent studies... they all get money from somewhere, which introduces bias.

    For every study saying smoking is bad, there are studies funded by companies that make cigarettes that show there is no direct link and cigarettes are not addictive. Of course it is known nicotine is addictive but smoking company studies show that is not really proven beyond doubt..

    BTW a persons height has nothing to do with their health... in the Savannah's of Africa then a long tall body maximises surface area to allow maximum heat loss during the heat of the day, while in other places being very short leads to pygmies being predominant... Eskimos tend to be shorter as that minimises heat loss in cold climates... but there is always going to be variation in heights even within a population.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:41 pm

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet



    Agree about everyone lying about correct diet . There are economic reasons for these lies . Like meat producers telling you there is nothing wrong with eating fatty sausages . Or grain farmers telling you that you need to eat cereal for breakfast . Or your doctor telling you to eat three square meals a day . This is industrial agriculture and industrial medicine .

    There are religious and cultural reasons . For example many people in India worship cows as being holy . And therefore not to be eaten . Since they had been more useful to pull carts or farm the land . Or Muslims avoidance of pork . Has to do with agricultural diseases in primitive pig farming . Now no more . With farmed chicken proving to be more of a health hazard . But they are still eaten by Muslims and others .

    The idea of health is more complicated and extended in definition . Than mere longevity . It is also related to reproductive health . This translates in humans as symmetry and proportion in body form , as well as height . That is why we find taller people more attractive . And they make good long distance runners . The modern equivalent of ancient hunters .

    If we want to stay healthy . Then we are wise to remember that our evolution led to following a special diet . This diet was available to ancient humans . And our digestive system works best with it . This is called the paeliolitic diet . As well as this our lifestyle has become sedentary . So two things need to be done :

    ( 1 ) Activity level . You can measure how many calories you need in a day . This can be done using modern gadgets .

    ( 2 ) Food intake . You need to eat the calories you measure .

    However the source of calories should be from foods that metabolise slowly . These are by and large non processed and none agricultural foods . Or foods that resemble largely their non agricultural/ Industrial ancestors . Sugar for example should be avoided , as it is highly processed food , quick metabolising , bearing no resemblance to natural sugars available in fruits . Carbohydrates should be minimal in processed form such as bread and rice . As these are collected by machines , in quantities never before available to man . Processed fatty meats and burgers again bear no resemblance to meat available to man in earlier times . Meat should not contain fat other than what is already part of the animal . This can be eaten and is slow metabolising . Veg and fruit should be eaten liberally .

    Also people should eat when they feel hungry . Not at religious set times . This regimented eating is to serve interests of industry . People then feeling hungry , tend to overeat as a result . You plate of food should contain no added sugar but only what is present naturally .....( manufacturer of food lie about sugar content ) , carbohydrates should not contribute more than 30 percent of total calories . Good quality meat and fish contribute fifty percent . Veg and fruit twenty percent . But remember twenty percent calorie from veg means you plate is half loaded with veg . Like cabbage or cooked spinach .

    PS . You do not need excessive exercise to stay healthy . Health is eighty percent food and twenty percent exercise . You can get as much exercise with a twenty minute walk as you can with a twenty minute run . Remember calorie burnt is work done . Or force times distance . You use same force to move same load .


    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:24 am

    PS . You do not need excessive exercise to stay healthy . Health is eighty percent food and twenty percent exercise . You can get as much exercise with a twenty minute walk as you can with a twenty minute run . Remember calorie burnt is work done . Or force times distance . You use same force to move same load .

    Really?

    So that enormous fuel tank on the US space shuttle is just for decoration because its 500km trip out of the atmosphere should use the same amount of fuel as a Cessna subsonic aircraft flying 500km horizontally?

    The faster you go the more energy you burn... this is magnified in water... try to walk the length of a 100m swimming pool and I guarantee you will burn more energy than if you walked the same distance beside the pool. Try to run in the water and you will burn even more energy.

    You said yourself... work done is force times distance... if you run you increase the force so even if it is over the same distance if you run you burn do more work than if you walk... or ride a bike.

    If you are talking about aerobic fitness, you are trying to say that raising your heart rate for 1 hour improves health... whether it is running or walking, but even then I would suggest there is a difference.

    That is why we find taller people more attractive .

    Thank you, but you wouldn't say that if you actually saw me in person...
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:22 pm

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cG_S_5sO-98

    NOTICE HE IS MUCH MUCH TALLER !!



    @GarryB

    We burn the same amount of calorie , for moving the same load . If we move the load faster , say if we run , then we are not increasing the work done , but decreasing the time during which this work was done . We increase the power . And yes power can be an indication of health . But you ask ten people , if they find the body of a body builder attractive . They will mostly say no. And they will also reject as ugly the body of a long distance runner . Being almost like Auchwitz victim . But the body of a middle distance runner , with modest power , they will find most attractive .

    Now , I will not be too worried about your looks ! A person's attractiveness has many sides . There is emotional health . And social health . As well as spiritual health ..........everything else being equal , the taller person is more attractive .

    Since protein sources are becoming scarce . Especially in these difficult times . Does anyone know if vegetable protein like soya have any adverse effects ? Can they replace meat ? And feed the people ?

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 01, 2018 2:33 am

    They will mostly say no. And they will also reject as ugly the body of a long distance runner . Being almost like Auchwitz victim . But the body of a middle distance runner , with modest power , they will find most attractive .

    Most westerners are over weight... does that mean only attractive healthy women reproduce?

    In my experience it is the larger girls that put out more children... especially if they can get money from the state for doing so... passing on your genes if a gamble anyway there is no control and diet can ruin any good genes you get...

    There is emotional health . And social health . As well as spiritual health ..........everything else being equal , the taller person is more attractive .

    The problem is that inner beauty is hidden and all we have to go on is outer beauty... physically attractive people get talked to and hit on, while less attractive people who might be much better people are left sitting drinking... most guys would prefer Jessica Simpson on their arm.... as long as she kept her mouth shut... just because she is beautiful and fit, but when you went home and had to talk to her... a bit like living with a teenager...

    I have not found my height to make me more attractive... in fact I have found my height has attracted a lot of insecure short guys who think they can impress their mates by knocking over a tall guy... it is a no win for me... either big guy too afraid to fight the little guy or big guy beats up little guy... what a bastard...

    Since protein sources are becoming scarce . Especially in these difficult times . Does anyone know if vegetable protein like soya have any adverse effects ? Can they replace meat ? And feed the people ?

    New Zealand has a huge meat industry... we wont run out of meat any time soon.

    PS . You do not need excessive exercise to stay healthy . Health is eighty percent food and twenty percent exercise . You can get as much exercise with a twenty minute walk as you can with a twenty minute run . Remember calorie burnt is work done . Or force times distance . You use same force to move same load .

    You didn't understand what I was saying... you can eat "unhealthy" food... high energy food... if you use that energy... If you sit on your arse all day at a keyboard in an office then chocolate bars might taste nice but they give you a lot of energy that you are not using up so you will start to gain weight as your body stores the excess energy.
    If you are climbing mountains or walking across the continent of Antarctica then a chocolate bar is healthy and will help you maintain energy and body warmth for the journey. In fact a few expeditions would have succeeded if they had more high energy food for the people to eat on their way...

    NOTICE HE IS MUCH MUCH TALLER !!

    He is a cartoon character... if she is 1.2m he might only be 1.8m foot tall... which is not that tall at all.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:57 pm

    In nature , if an organism spends more effort ( calories ) than it obtains ( calories ) from food . Then the organism starves and dies . I have thought about the value of work and how it could be measured in calories .

    This is straightforward for workers producing agricultural goods . Since their products all have a calorific value . But what about industrial goods ? A brick does not have a calorific value , or does it ?

    It has calorific equivalence . That is , a person living in a house , will need fewer calories as food to keep warm and stay alive than someone living in a tent . The savings in calories , taking into account the calories spent  in building the house , determine the calorific value of the house .

    This I think , is the most objective way of measuring the value of goods or work . And can form basis of a scientific and tangible currency .

    So for the working public , it becomes a simpler matter to understand if they are being short changed or not . So we should discard little furry animals or bit coin or dollars as valid units of currency .

    In nature , if biological interactions led to a net flow of calories from one species to another . Resulting in increase in number of one predator against prey . Then the prey species would die out . And predator will also die out . Therefore biological relationships must at least operate on equal exchange of calories .

    @ GarryB

    My concern was for countries like Iran . With poor rainfall . And difficulty in growing sheep and cattle for meat for people to eat . If New Zealand can break sanctions and export meat , then I love New Zealand !

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