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    The Skripal poisoning thread

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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:00 am

    For some context: recall the case of Gerald Bull a Canadian engineer who worked for Iraq on its super gun project.
    He was assassinated in 1990 by most likely Mossad in Belgium.   I do not recall any hysteria against Israel or any other
    involved country.  

    Moral of the story: f*ck you bloody hypocrites, who give themselves the right to target people of interest for assassination,
    for doing your retarded anti-Russian war dance.   Russia has the right to defend its interests and to take out
    malicious agents.   Not that Skripal was such a target at all, but spare the ridiculous moral posturing.   You
    f*ckers are the ones engaged in mass assassinations with your drone program in the Middle East as we speak.

    I see that these NATO scumbags are now claiming to have pinpointed the "secret Russian lab that made the Novichok".
    Really?  Putin used a secret weapon (one he was hiding from OPCW, etc.) to engage in "here, world, I did this" posturing
    in the attack on Skripal?   WTF, so you think all Russians are total retards, do you?   Funny how retards think others are retards.
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    Godric

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Godric on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:50 pm

    this is looking mega embarrassing for the UK and Teresa May .... the phone call they ridiculed has now been verified as true and Skripal all of a sudden has made a miraculous recovery
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:09 pm

    Godric wrote:this is looking mega embarrassing for the UK and Teresa May .... the phone call they ridiculed has now been verified as true and Skripal all of a sudden has made a miraculous recovery

    I do wonder how does one make miraculous recovery from something 5 times worse than VX gas which is shitload of times worse than worse thing out there?

    People sometimes die of food poisoning but these two survive Armageddon-grade nerve gas? Suspect
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:01 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Godric wrote:this is looking mega embarrassing for the UK and Teresa May .... the phone call they ridiculed has now been verified as true and Skripal all of a sudden has made a miraculous recovery

    I do wonder how does one make miraculous recovery from something 5 times worse than VX gas which is shitload of times worse than worse thing out there?

    People sometimes die of food poisoning but these two survive Armageddon-grade nerve gas? Suspect
    Never underestimate the UK's health service. Laughing
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    Godric

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Godric on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:58 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Godric wrote:this is looking mega embarrassing for the UK and Teresa May .... the phone call they ridiculed has now been verified as true and Skripal all of a sudden has made a miraculous recovery

    I do wonder how does one make miraculous recovery from something 5 times worse than VX gas which is shitload of times worse than worse thing out there?

    People sometimes die of food poisoning but these two survive Armageddon-grade nerve gas? Suspect
    Never underestimate the UK's health service. Laughing

    i can testify with that .... i've been in hospital for half this past month including the easter weekend ... the morphine and antibiotics were superb

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  ATLASCUB on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:30 am

    It's not out of the question that Putin might have revived/started a Russian chemical weapons program "unofficially". The U.S has theirs up and running and Putin has clearly said, in warning, that there would be a response. It's not out of the realm of possibility that some labs have started to get to work on this "unofficially" and that M16/CIA know about it.

    Tying this case to such a lab is an easy ploy to pull off - and since it's off-the-grid, it will play perfectly into their hands. Don't set yourself up in arguments claiming, with 100% degree of certainty that such lab in Russia does not exist. It might very well exist. The game is dirty and knows no boundaries.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:33 am

    The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi. This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of food poisoning. They were OK when they arrived, OK when they left but passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction caused by shellfish poisoning.

    In fact the substance at work in a case of paralytic seafood poison is a neurotoxin called Saxitoxin (STX) which is among the most potent poisons found in nature. It works the same way as a nerve agent: It acts on the neurons, preventing normal cellular function and leading to paralysis and in worst case death. In fact Saxitoxin is so potent that it was weaponized by the U.S. and used as a chemical weapon - a nerve agent.

    This could be as simple as the UK thinking that they had an opportunity to bash the Russians presented to them on a plate and took it.

    More on this at http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/the-best-explanation-for-the-skripal-drama-is-food-poisoning.html#more
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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:50 am

    JohninMK wrote:The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi. This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of food poisoning. They were OK when they arrived, OK when they left but passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction caused by shellfish poisoning.

    In fact the substance at work in a case of paralytic seafood poison is a neurotoxin called Saxitoxin (STX) which is among the most potent poisons found in nature. It works the same way as a nerve agent: It acts on the neurons, preventing normal cellular function and leading to paralysis and in worst case death. In fact Saxitoxin is so potent that it was weaponized by the U.S. and used as a chemical weapon - a nerve agent.

    This could be as simple as the UK thinking that they had an opportunity to bash the Russians presented to them on a plate and took it.

    More on this at http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/the-best-explanation-for-the-skripal-drama-is-food-poisoning.html#more

    The UK regime put out a string of ludicrous fantasy theories with all of its highly paid experts and alleged investigators. But some
    alternative media site actually provides a plausible theory that properly fits the evidence. Note the delayed reaction. While STX is potent
    its dosage is not high enough on the surface of the food to kill outright. It takes the release of STX in the gastro-intestinal tract to release
    enough of a dose to make the victims sick and even in this case it was not lethal. There is no f*cking way to get a similar delayed reaction
    from contact killing agents such as VX and the supposedly more potent Novichoks. The attacker would have had to introduce the nerve
    agent into the bulk of food (not the surface) and in a diluted manner such that any surface (i.e. instant contact) amount would not be
    lethal. WTF. An assassin is going to engage in such a tedious and utterly pointless process to kill his victims?
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    GarryB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:12 am

    Tying this case to such a lab is an easy ploy to pull off - and since it's off-the-grid, it will play perfectly into their hands. Don't set yourself up in arguments claiming, with 100% degree of certainty that such lab in Russia does not exist. It might very well exist. The game is dirty and knows no boundaries.

    Clue number 1, to identify something you have to have something to compare it with... so clearly there was some of this stuff in Porton Down for them to identify this for what it is supposed to be.

    Clue number 2, why did they not release samples to the OPCW immediately... which is what they are supposed to do as a responsible country in such a situation... and why not release samples to Russia too so they can do their own investigation?

    I mean if you are accusing someone of something and demand they admit it, you really need to show them something that conclusively proves it was them that did it... why else would they feel compelled to admit their guilt?

    Clue number 3... there has still never been given any reason why Russia would benefit from this attack... the targets were nobodies they could have held or executed when they were initially caught. The only group that benefits from their deaths is the west... it saves having to support this guy and it gets to point the finger at Putin so everyone concentrates on that instead of Brexit, or why the English soccer team is going to lose in Russia very early on despite being the best soccer team in the world...
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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:02 pm

    Claiming to identify which Russian lab made the supposed Novichok is pure lying. They would need to have enough
    sample material to identify contaminants and the species of Novichok itself. And they would need samples from the
    alleged lab for comparison as noted in the previous post. It is clear that the UK has neither since they would not be
    moving the attack location to a vastly different point every week if they actually had enough samples taken. That is,
    the nerve agent is confined to the bodies of the victims (consistent with STX) and not a surface exposure case.
    Any samples that they claim to have have to be fakes based on the open source information about Novichoks.

    Russia needs to hammer this BS into the British skull for the next long while. They should use the alleged samples
    provided to the OPCW to do animal tests to see how potent this crap really is. As I said before, Novichoks were never
    deployed so no testing was ever done. But I bet the OPCW is like WADA and will deny Russia access to its labs while
    they fake up "proof" that it was Novichoks. Even though there were never any stockpiles of these agents to dispose of.

    And we are back to Putin using his secret weapons to make public announcements about murders of "regime opponents".
    Why bother keeping those weapons secret, then? As with the question of motive such show stopper details just get
    ignored. The UK and the rest of NATO are the 4th Reich as far as Russia is concerned.
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    nomadski

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  nomadski on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:44 pm

    So far all the evidence supports my hypothesis , that this was a false flag operation . And that it was a hoaxed event , with no chemicals involved . This means that the alleged victims are active participants . I say this because all the possible evidence that could lead to identification of alleged chemical is fast disappearing . The car that was supposedly contaminated was later cleared of contamination ! You know why ? Because it is difficult to dispose of a car . But the alleged table in restaurant that was heavily contaminated had to be burnt ! Since they had panicked people greatly , they decided to confine the source of contamination to the house of alleged victims . But the pets in this house had also been disposed of ! There were reports of the alleged victims collapsing simultaneously . Something highly unlikely after four hours of exposure and different size of victims . However they are not making same mistake with news of recovery . They recovered at different times .

    As I said , all the evidence suggests a hoax involving no chemicals . The excuse the English will give is that later tests have revealed no trace , because enzymes have broken down the poison and this chemical hydrolyses quickly in the presence of water . Again no evidence of chemicals .

    For this operation , they needed the cooperation of the alleged victims and one or two key people at Porton down responsible for handling ( mishandling ) the samples . I think the British government found out and knew quickly afterwards what happened but they tried to cover up the tracks of a badly conducted operation .

    So what is the way forward ? In my view , if any doubt remains that Russia was involved , then this slander can give opportunity to anti Russia element to carry out more pressure or sanctions . Therefore the British stance that changed from " the Russians are most probably responsible " to " we can not establish at present a Russian connection " should now change to " Russia has been eliminated as a source of this attack " .

    We are not asking that they incriminate themselves or the yanks . But absolve Russia . After all an apple can be found not to be red . Yet we don't have to say that we know what other colour it is .
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    GarryB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:36 am

    Ohh, dear.... it seems the sealing of the Skripals family home has had fatal consequences for the family pets.

    So Putins attempt to kill the Skripals is limited to their pets it seems... perhaps that was the plan all along...

    Seriously though guys... starving pets to death is pretty cruel...
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    nomadski

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  nomadski on Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:27 pm

    @GarryB

    Agree . But I am afraid that they are capable of even greater misadventures . Some politicians and commentators in the UK are now openly advocating this anti -Russia stance and jumping quickly on this poorly constructed government bandwagon . They are saying that supporting the government in this , is a patriotic duty ! And this is a matter of propaganda and winning the diplomatic tit for tat . But as we know the consequences can be devastating for all sides . And I don't rule out a war either . In fact I have a funny feeling that we will soon all be made to forget this episode . Because something bigger will happen that will overshadow this . Like the chaos of 9/11 . The truth needs to be lost in the fog of war . I don't think the west has the political capacity to deal with it's own problems . You can call it a deterioration in political culture . I should know , I live here and know exactly what dirty tricks they get up to . So get ready .
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:54 am

    “Comrade Putin, we have successfully stockpiled novichoks in secret for ten years, and kept them hidden from the OPCW inspectors. We have also trained our agents in secret novichok assassination techniques. The programme has cost hundreds of millions of dollars, but now we are ready. Naturally, the first time we use it we will expose our secret and suffer massive international blowback. So who should be our first target? The head of a foreign intelligence agency? A leading jihadist rebel in Syria? A key nuclear scientist? Even a Head of State?”

    “No, Tovarich. There is this old retired guy I know living in Salisbury. We released him from jail years ago…”

    “With respect Comrade Putin, are you sure he is the most important target to reveal a programme we have put so much resource into for ten years?”

    “Yes. I sit here every day and I cannot concentrate on the affairs of Russia or the World as all the time am thinking of Sergei Skripal. I should never have let him out of jail to spend his life buying lottery tickets and eating in Zizzis. But you must make absolutely certain to kill him.”

    “Don’t worry Comrade Putin, we have been training in secret novichok assassination techniques for ten years. We even have an detailed manual explaining our methods. We will spread the novichok on his outside door handle (fiendish laugh).”

    “Are you sure comrade? Is there not a danger it will wash off or get diluted?”

    “No Comrade Putin, it never rains in England.”




    That is, genuinely, in every detail the official British government version of what happened in Salisbury, including the ten year programme and the secret assassination manual.

    Despite this story being one of the most improbably wild conspiracy theories in human history, it is those who express any doubt at all as to its veracity who are smeared as “conspiracy theorists” or even “traitors”.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/portonblimp-down-episode-2-a-tale-by-boris-johnson/

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:24 am

    The more this develops the more likely that these two, like father, like daughter, are traitors ($$$) to the core and in on the whole charade. After we got news of their recovery alarm bells sounded super high for me but these little things just add bit by bit...

    https://www.rt.com/uk/423864-yulia-skripal-statement-police/

    "Evaluating their options" - Flag
    "Family don't contact me" - Flag
    "I will not contact the Russian Embassy to get the fuck out of the UK ASAP despite having contacts" - Flag
    "No one speaks for me" - Except the British Police in this communique - Flag
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:51 am

    Full statement is here. Very professionally written. Laughing

    http://news.met.police.uk/news/statement-issued-on-behalf-of-yulia-skripal-302508
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    GarryB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:01 am

    It must be hard... working out the movie and book deals...

    Teshub

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Teshub on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:59 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:"Evaluating their options" - Flag
    "Family don't contact me" - Flag
    "I will not contact the Russian Embassy to get the fuck out of the UK ASAP despite having contacts" - Flag
    "No one speaks for me" - Except the British Police in this communique - Flag
    Doesn't make the statement on video - Big Flag.

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:28 pm

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

    https://www.rt.com/uk/423911-opcw-skripal-russia-investigation/

    "The results of analysis by OPCW-designated laboratories of environmental and biomedical samples collected by the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people", the OPCW said.
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    nomadski

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  nomadski on Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:43 pm

    They were poisoned in hospital with a sub lethal dose to throw off the Iinvestigators . We need type of poison and evidence of route of application and analysis of time of poisoning based on historical enzyme levels . No wonder the British are keeping them until blood result return to normal . The Skripals were upto a point , willing participants . And later poisoned by the British . This report makes it more likely that a strike on Syria will happen .
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:13 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

    https://www.rt.com/uk/423911-opcw-skripal-russia-investigation/

    "The results of analysis by OPCW-designated laboratories of environmental and biomedical samples collected by the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people", the OPCW said.
    1.
    The  United  Kingdom  of  Great  Britain  and  Northern  Ireland  requested  technical  assistance from the OPCW Technical Secretariat (hereinafter “the Secretariat”) under subparagraph  38(e)  of  Article  VIII  of  the  Chemical  Weapons  Convention  in  relation  to an incident in Salisbury on 4 March 2018 involving a toxic chemical—allegedly a nerve   agent—and   the   poisoning   and   hospitalisation   of   three   individuals.   The   Director-General  decided  to  dispatch  a  team  to  the  United  Kingdom  for  a  technical  
    assistance visit (TAV).
    2.
    The  TAV  team  deployed  to  the  United  Kingdom  on  19  March  for  a  pre-deployment  and from 21 March to 23 March for a full deployment.
    3.
    The team received information on the medical conditions of the affected individuals, Mr  Sergej  Skripal,  Ms  Yulia  Skripal, and  Mr  Nicholas  Bailey.  This  included  information  on  their  acetylcholinesterase  status  since  hospitalisation,  as  well  as  information on the treatment regime.
    4.
    The team was able to collect blood samples from the three affected individuals under full  chain  of  custody  for  delivery  to  the  OPCW  Laboratory  and  subsequent  analysis  by   OPCW   designated   laboratories,   and   conducted   identification   of   the   three   individuals against official photo-ID documents.
    5.
    The  team  was  able  to  conduct  on-site  sampling  of  environmental  samples  under  full  chain  of  custody  at  sites  identified  as  possible  hot-spots  of  residual contamination.
    Samples  were  returned  to  the  OPCW  Laboratory  for  subsequent  analysis  by  OPCW  designated laboratories.
    6.
    The  team  requested  and  received  splits  of  samples  taken  by  British  authorities  for  delivery  to  the  OPCW  Laboratory  in  Rijswijk,  the  Netherlands,  and  subsequent  analysis  by  OPCW  designated  laboratories.  This  was  done  for  comparative  purposes  and to verify the analysis of the United Kingdom.
    7.
    The  team  was  briefed  on  the  identity  of  the  toxic  chemical  identified  by  the  United  Kingdom and was able to review analytical results and data from chemical analysis of biomedical samples collected by the British authorities from the affected individuals, as well as from environmental samples collected on site.  
    8.
    The  results  of  analysis  of  biomedical  samples  conducted  by  OPCW  designated  laboratories  demonstrate  the  exposure  of  the  three  hospitalised  individuals  to  this  toxic chemical.
    9.
    The results of analysis ofthe environmental samples conducted by OPCW designated laboratories demonstrate the presence of this toxic chemical in the samples.
    10.
    The  results  of  analysis  by  the  OPCW  designated  laboratories  of  environmental  and  biomedical samples collected by the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people.
    11.
    The  TAV  team  notes  that  the  toxic  chemical  was  of  high  purity.  The  latter  is  concluded from the almost complete absence of impurities.
    12.
    The  name  and  structure  of  the  identified  toxic  chemical  are  contained  in  the  full  classified report of the Secretariat, available to States Parties.
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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:19 pm

    "The TAV team notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity."

    Yet not fatal. WTF?
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    nomadski

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  nomadski on Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:57 pm

    Right so the only way a high purity agent disables slightly in two cases is unlikely to be random exposure to environmental pollution . It had to be introduced into victim . In measured doses . So enzyme level in each case should be close or identical.
    The time of the enzyme test will indicate time and dosage of poisoning . Random environmental exposure highly unlikely to cause simultaneous and identical reaction . " Environmental " samples provided are not admissible as evidence . As could be tampered with by third party . Before arrival of team . Why was lethal dose not given ? Post mortem will show details . They don't have everyone in NHS in their pocket . Corpse available later for public examination . Live person can be hidden . The evidence of enzyme level during hospital stay can only be accepted , if it can be proved not to have been tampered with prior to team arrival .

    I still maintain even more strongly that no environmental pollution was done . Based on " findings " of a properly mixed and pure nerve agent . To prove "Environmental" , is extremely long process of proof . Needing independent verification prior and immediately after event on the site . The " evidence " about environmental pollution has been provided by alleged suspect . Looks like the person who carried out this poisoning , is misdirecting authorities . To hide his access and acquaintance with the victim .


    Last edited by nomadski on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:52 pm

    As I predicted, another WADA joke organization run by NATO.

    Note how they claim chain of custody "from all the potential sites". This is pure whitewashing of the Scotland Yard failure to
    identify the actual attack point. What f*cking samples could the OPCW get from any of those sites today? None. We have no
    identified crime scene, yet we have "confirmation" of the chain of custody. The only thing the OPCW has are samples given
    to it by the UK regime. It has no idea where those samples are from. Specifically it does not even know if the chemical
    agent was added to the blood after it was taken.

    The last point answers the purity BS. If these were untampered blood samples, the Skripals would be dead.

    This is all such a sick joke. Recall how WADA claimed Russia broke the sample vial seals without even establishing how
    they would have done it. In the case of the Skripals, non of the samples have any chain of custody control, i.e.
    they are useless as evidence, and they are used as if they actually prove something. Russia is always guilty in
    NATO state kangaroo investigations and court cases.
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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:56 pm

    nomadski wrote:Right so the only way a high purity agent disables slightly in two cases is unlikely to be random exposure to environmental pollution . It had to be introduced into victim . In measured doses . So enzyme level in each case should be close or identical.
    The time of the enzyme test will indicate time and dosage of poisoning . Random environmental exposure highly unlikely to cause simultaneous and identical  reaction . Environmental samples provided are not admissible as evidence . As could be tampered with by third party . Before arrival of team . Why was lethal dose not given ?  Post mortem will show details . They don't have everyone in NHS  in their pocket . Corpse  available later for public examination . Live person can be hidden . The evidence of enzyme level during hospital stay can only be accepted , if it can be proved not to have been tampered with prior to team arrival .


    There is no chain of custody with any of the evidence in this case whatsoever. The OPCW is a joke. If it is going to play the role of an actual
    investigation agency, then it would demand access from day. It would take the samples itself, in particular the blood samples. Waiting for the
    UK regime to provide it all the samples and to treat them as any sort of evidence is ridiculous. Thus, as with WADA and the McLaren joke report,
    this is not a real investigation. It is propaganda theater.

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