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    The Skripal poisoning thread

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    JohninMK

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    The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:01 pm

    The saga rolls on and please can we keep to the topic?

    OPCW emergency meeting called by the Russians is tomorrow.




    Also, more digging by John Helmer in Moscow. Briefly, the UK Government is, contrary to what that Judge said about the terms of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, indeed breaking UK Law, that is the bilateral consular convention signed into Law by Parliament in November 1968, by not allowing either family or consular access to Yulia.

    Interestingly the Russian Embassy still seems not to be pushing its case very hard here as it is still not going to Court with a habeas corpus claim. Why not is a mystery.


    http://johnhelmer.net/yulia-skripal-is-not-allowed-to-telephone-her-grandmother/#more-18954
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:16 pm

    The UK Government have put up the Director of Porton Down for an interview on Sky News (not the BBC) this afternoon. Must be related to the OPCW meeting tomorrow.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:06 pm

    They can't identify where this nerve agent comes from. They just claim it's the Novichok but that UK government created their own conclusion.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:12 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:They can't identify where this nerve agent comes from. They just claim it's the Novichok but that UK government created their own conclusion.
    Pretty much.

    More details and link to interview at https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-03/uk-authorities-unable-prove-novichok-nerve-agent-came-russia

    Can't believe how hostile to the British the commentators are there Cool
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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:23 am

    So we have the only people with an actual clue (as long as they are not muzzled) saying:

    1) No such thing as Novichok and in particular no weapons grade nerve agent involved

    2) Cannot determine where it can from

    No matter, Russia has been smeared regardless. NATO does not need facts to defame Russia. It sheep-like
    citizen will believe whatever their politicians and their media mouthpieces will say.
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    GarryB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:24 am


    Interestingly the Russian Embassy still seems not to be pushing its case very hard here as it is still not going to Court with a habeas corpus claim. Why not is a mystery.

    She might be a Russian citizen but she has allegedly been sick and the british doctors no doubt told her it was Russia that poisoned her and her father... what is the point of talking to her... what is the chance she is not brainwashed... she has clearly not asked to see Russian embassy officials by now, so what chance do you think she has not been turned like her father?

    This is perhaps a fabrication to get British citizenship for the daughter... who in the UK would deny them that after being victims of Putin himself...
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    GarryB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:26 am

    No matter, Russia has been smeared regardless. NATO does not need facts to defame Russia. It sheep-like
    citizen will believe whatever their politicians and their media mouthpieces will say.

    The mud has stuck... in a few months time they will admit they don't know what actually happened but there will be no apology and no retraction and when faced with the facts they will say Russia was probably spying with those diplomats anyway so sending them home was a good thing all along or some such shit.

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:40 am

    GarryB wrote:
    No matter, Russia has been smeared regardless. NATO does not need facts to defame Russia. It sheep-like
    citizen will believe whatever their politicians and their media mouthpieces will say.

    The mud has stuck... in a few months time they will admit they don't know what actually happened but there will be no apology and no retraction and when faced with the facts they will say Russia was probably spying with those diplomats anyway so sending them home was a good thing all along or some such shit.
    Exactly. OSCE and Western mass media admited, a few months after the events, that Russia was not the aggressor in the South Ossetian war back in 2008, but if you ask common people they will all still think that Russia attacked and invaded Georgia.
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    Godric

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Godric on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    No matter, Russia has been smeared regardless. NATO does not need facts to defame Russia. It sheep-like
    citizen will believe whatever their politicians and their media mouthpieces will say.

    The mud has stuck... in a few months time they will admit they don't know what actually happened but there will be no apology and no retraction and when faced with the facts they will say Russia was probably spying with those diplomats anyway so sending them home was a good thing all along or some such shit.

    i don't think it has maybe in England it has in Scotland most of the people i've talked to think on the same lines as myself that Russia has no motive especially before the Russian elections and the World Cup the most prestigious tournament in the world on the other hand since day 1 Russia was awarded it England has done everything to try and wrestle it off Russia and many people in Scotland remember Iraq and it's so called WMDs claimed by the Labour government and the so called UK intelligence service ... i wouldn't be surprised if their was a element to trey and unify the UK by the tories ... even a blind man can see the UK is splitting apart
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    Godric

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Godric on Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:03 pm

    and i would also add even in the rest of the UK people are not swallowing it either with demands for Blo Jo to resign
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:40 pm

    Its getting better. The UK Government is now going round desperately trying to remove from the record, and point blank denying, that they ever said that the Russians did it.

    I really hope not but I'd say its curtains for Skripal senior now as he knows too much, the medical condition reports, what there is, seem to be heading that way. Yulia will probably be allowed to go home.

    Grade one farce Laughing Laughing but still in the air is why and what actually happened. I'm still on the Steel Dossier as the trigger.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:40 pm

    Godric wrote:and i would also add even in the rest of the UK people are not swallowing it either with demands for Blo Jo to resign

    Side benefit for May, removed a rival.
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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:54 pm

    The EU doesn't like the way this is going at all. Nothing to do with them being unable to say that yes, they are the US/UK's poodle.

    https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/M-57/en/Statement_on_Behalf_of_the_EU_Delivered_by_Ambassador_Krassimir_Kostov_Permanent_Representative_of_the_Republic_of_Bulgaria_to_the_OPCW_at_the_57th_Meeting_of_the_Executive_Council_4_April_2018.pdf

    This is what OPCW have said this morning, as opposed to Porton Down yesterday

    5.
    The results of the sample analyses are expected to be received by early next week. Once the  results  of  the  analyses  of  the  samples are  received,  the  Secretariat  will  produce  a  report  on  the  basis  of  these  results  and  will  transmit  a  copy  of  this  report  to  the  United  Kingdom.  The  report  will  reflect  the  findings  of  the  designated  laboratories.  Access  of  other States Parties to the report will be subject to the agreement of the United Kingdom, pursuant   to   the   Confidentiality   Annex   of   the   Convent
    ion,   the   OPCW   Policy   on   Confidentiality, and the consistent practice in relation to other technical assistance visits. The  United  Kingdom  has  expressed  its  wish  to  be  as  transparent  as  possible  and  has  already indicated its preference for disclosure of the report to other States Parties.  


    https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/M-57/en/ecm57dg01_e_.pdf
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    Godric

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Godric on Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:34 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Godric wrote:and i would also add even in the rest of the UK people are not swallowing it either with demands for Blo Jo to resign

    Side benefit for May, removed a rival.

    May is damaged goods as well she screamed Russia done it and put pressure on other countries along with Trump to boot out Russian diplomats .... the only one to have benefited out of this debacle is Reece Mogg .. he will be more divisive for the UK than May

    a lot of credit has to go to the Portadown facility they showed real integrity in the face of pressure from the government and media not to point the finger at Russia
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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:28 pm

    In criminal cases evidence control is vital. That is forensic samples have to be proven to actually come from the crime scene.
    How in Hell are any of the samples provided to the OPCW to be considered as legitimate. The UK police could not even determine
    where the attack occurred (a different theory, totally different from the one before, offered every week) so there is no indication
    that their samples actually come from the crime scene. They claim that they do, but the lack of identification of the actual
    attack site (rather easy if you really take samples soon after the crime) indicates that they are lying.
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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:11 pm

    Godric wrote:

    a lot of credit has to go to the Portadown facility they showed real integrity in the face of pressure from the government and media not to point the finger at Russia
    Portadown is in Northern Ireland. I think you meant Porton Down Smile
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:13 pm

    kvs wrote:In criminal cases evidence control is vital.   That is forensic samples have to be proven to actually come from the crime scene.
    How in Hell are any of the samples provided to the OPCW to be considered as legitimate.   The UK police could not even determine
    where the attack occurred (a different theory, totally different from the one before, offered every week) so there is no indication
    that their samples actually come from the crime scene.   They claim that they do, but the lack of identification of the actual
    attack site (rather easy if you really take samples soon after the crime) indicates that they are lying.
    No real evidence needed in this case. Someone clearly knew this from the start. No prosecution gonna happen.

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:36 pm

    Godric wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Godric wrote:and i would also add even in the rest of the UK people are not swallowing it either with demands for Blo Jo to resign

    Side benefit for May, removed a rival.

    May is damaged goods as well she screamed Russia done it and put pressure on other countries along with Trump to boot out Russian diplomats .... the only one to have benefited out of this debacle is Reece Mogg .. he will be more divisive for the UK than May

    a lot of credit has to go to the Portadown facility they showed real integrity in the face of pressure from the government and media not to point the finger at Russia

    I wouldn't categorically say that it was a noble deed on their part. Russia and its media arms are merely capitalizing on the tibit to make noise and punch holes on the narrative. The narrative being " Even their lab can't attritube it to us" - well DUH!!! That's not their job.

    Since this is a public relations war...the sheep eat this up.

    Porto says otherwise (Russia did it) and then this lab will dig themselves even deeper into this crap, with more questions to answer (like, how do they know it came directly from Russia if they are not an investigative law enforcement body). The only thing they can do is determine whether it was a chemical nerve agent, and of which type. That's as far as they go in this crap....which they have done. So far they've been dubious, claiming that it's a Novichok agent (not necessarily specifying what exactly - since it appears as non-lethal as Juliet's poison). Seems to me they're doing the job just fine for the Brits. The blame/story part is up to Scotland yard and the British gov. to handle. Porto has established/claimed it's some sort of Novichok  (vague for effect) - that's all they need.

    Critical thinking people....

    kvs wrote:In criminal cases evidence control is vital. That is forensic samples have to be proven to actually come from the crime scene.
    How in Hell are any of the samples provided to the OPCW to be considered as legitimate. The UK police could not even determine
    where the attack occurred (a different theory, totally different from the one before, offered every week) so there is no indication
    that their samples actually come from the crime scene. They claim that they do, but the lack of identification of the actual
    attack site (rather easy if you really take samples soon after the crime) indicates that they are lying.

    + This.
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    Godric

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Godric on Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:21 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Godric wrote:

    a lot of credit has to go to the Portadown facility they showed real integrity in the face of pressure from the government and media not to point the finger at Russia
    Portadown is in Northern Ireland. I think you meant Porton Down Smile

    close but no cigar .... thankfully i don't smoke thumbsup

    when i hear it on the news it sounds like Portadown ... i've only been to N Ireland once within 10 minutes in the place i was asked what team do i support Rangers or Celtic when they heard my accent
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:37 am

    Here come the 'we know but we'd have to kill you if we told you' defence of their position by the UK.

    Alex Kokcharov
    ‏ @AlexKokcharov
    38m38 minutes ago

    Tomorrow's @thetimes: "#UK locates source of #Salisbury nerve agent":


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    Godric

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  Godric on Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:58 am

    JohninMK wrote:Here come the 'we know but we'd have to kill you if we told you' defence of their position by the UK.

    Alex Kokcharov
    ‏ @AlexKokcharov
    38m38 minutes ago

    Tomorrow's @thetimes: "#UK locates source of #Salisbury nerve agent":



    jesus wept do they not realise how embarrassing this has become
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    kvs

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:36 am

    Same BS as the claim by the USA that it knew the location from which the missile that brought down MH-17 was launched.
    We do not even know whether it was a SAM in the first place. Of course their proof was super duper top secret. Aka
    trust me, this used car is mint.
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    GarryB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:51 am

    I actually had some confidence that the OPCW might be unbiased, but I have since noticed how biased they were in the findings on the supposed chemical attacks in Syria and I realise they are no less political than any other international organisation dominated by the west...
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    JohninMK

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:35 pm

    New thread from Craig Murray. Interesting conclusion re conversation.

    Update: I have just listened to the released alleged phone conversation between Yulia Skripal in Salisbury Hospital and her cousin Viktoria, which deepens the mystery further. I should say that in Russian the conversation sounds perfectly natural to me. My concern is after the 30 seconds mark where Viktoria tells Yulia she is applying for a British visa to come and see Yulia.

    Yulia replies “nobody will give you a visa”. Viktoria then tells Yulia that if she is asked if she wants Viktoria to visit, she should say yes. Yulia’s reply to this is along the lines of “that will not happen in this situation”, meaning she would not be allowed by the British to see Viktoria. I apologise my Russian is very rusty for a Kremlinbot, and someone might give a better translation, but this key response from Yulia is missing from all the transcripts I have seen.

    What is there about Yulia’s situation that makes her feel a meeting between her and her cousin will be prevented by the British government? And why would Yulia believe the British government will not give her cousin a visa in the circumstance of these extreme family illnesses?


    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/knobs-and-knockers/
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    GarryB

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    Re: The Skripal poisoning thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:22 am

    At the OPCW meeting the Russian delegation asked to be included in the investigation... the response from the UK was that it was like an Arsonist wanting to be part of the investigation into an arson they committed...

    Talk about keeping an open mind and wanting to look at facts instead of bigotry and bias.

    The only court where Russia has been found guilty in this case is the British media court... such high morals for a country that clearly does not understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

    It is the UK making the accusations, so it is up to the UK to reveal the proof... otherwise STFU. We know you wont apologise because you are worse than you claim Russia to be, you scum.

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