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    Talking bollocks thread #2

    archangelski
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    Post  archangelski on Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:29 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Well to those who think Russia should not be selling S-400 to anyone to try to keep it secret... a weapon that is to secret to use is not much use at all... if you don't use it... it could still be compromised anyway... look at the original MiG-31 secrets revealed by a spy... it was never exported but its secrets were revealed anyway...

    Your confusing the MiG-25 for the MiG-31. The MiG-25 was the one that was deeply compromised.

    He's probably talking about the Tolkachev espionage story.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:16 pm

    archangelski wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Well to those who think Russia should not be selling S-400 to anyone to try to keep it secret... a weapon that is to secret to use is not much use at all... if you don't use it... it could still be compromised anyway... look at the original MiG-31 secrets revealed by a spy... it was never exported but its secrets were revealed anyway...

    Your confusing the MiG-25 for the MiG-31. The MiG-25 was the one that was deeply compromised.

    He's probably talking about the Tolkachev espionage story.

    I actually remember seeing a documentary a few months back on the Red Star Channel, in which the KGB caught wind of his treachery early, and was providing falsified data the entire time.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:14 pm

    The point of that aricle is that the F-35 is so stealthy that it had to be kept away from radars so not to reveal itself. Laughing
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:38 pm

    Hole wrote:The point of that aricle is that the F-35 is so stealthy that it had to be kept away from radars so not to reveal itself. Laughing

    We bash a lot the f35 here including me but US have spent a lot in stealth and are without a doubt the best in that field.

    IMO if they reduced the detection range of the f-35 to 10-20% of the detection range of a f-16 it will be a very hard target. S-400 still uses X band for engagement which is the frequency band the mostly affected by stealth. I wouldn't underestimate them. And they very well what level of stealth their f-35 has.

    A lonely s-400 will be in trouble if no sukhois or pantsirs are there to keep it safe. Many of the export clients actually have nothing like that to protect the s-400 and no real IADS (at least not russian made IADS which would be the most adapted for s-400). Turkish and Indian s-400 won't be game changers at all.

    Official story about the f-117 is that they downed it when it had opened its bomb bays and the p-18 detected it at short range, not that far away.
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:01 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Hole wrote:The point of that aricle is that the F-35 is so stealthy that it had to be kept away from radars so not to reveal itself. Laughing

    We bash a lot the f35 here including me but US have spent a lot in stealth and are without a doubt the best in that field.

    IMO if they reduced the detection range of the f-35 to 10-20% of the detection range of a f-16 it will be a very hard target. S-400 still uses X band for engagement which is the frequency band the mostly affected by stealth. I wouldn't underestimate them. And they very well what level of stealth their f-35 has.

    A lonely s-400 will be in trouble if no sukhois or pantsirs are there to keep it safe. Many of the export clients actually have nothing like that to protect the s-400 and no real IADS (at least not russian made IADS which would be the most adapted for s-400). Turkish and Indian s-400 won't be game changers at all.

    Official story about the f-117 is that they downed it when it had opened its bomb bays and the p-18 detected it at short range, not that far away.

    Very dangerous to be lost in narrow specifications, without knowing the benefits of them in context.

    Example, a potato peeling capability of a soldier is very important in certain situations, but having superior potato peelers will not win a war.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 am

    Your confusing the MiG-25 for the MiG-31. The MiG-25 was the one that was deeply compromised.

    No, I am not.

    The Belenko defection handed an up to date model of the MiG-25 minus the weapons... the result was the MiG-25s in Russian service immediately got a full upgrade of systems and weapons that had been previously delayed due to lack of funding... the MiG-31 was also given a full upgrade after many of its systems were compromised by a spy codenamed Donald.

    We bash a lot the f35 here including me but US have spent a lot in stealth and are without a doubt the best in that field.

    The fact that many of its serious faults are known and still accepted and yet it remains enormously expensive to both buy and to operate makes me think it is all a Soviet era plot to destroy the west... in many ways it is like a supercar... looks cool in pictures but a pain in the ass to actually own or use... small and uncomfortable... uses enormous amounts of fuel just idling, and way too much power and performance for any normal person to use safely on imperfect roads us mere mortals have to navigate every day.

    IMO if they reduced the detection range of the f-35 to 10-20% of the detection range of a f-16 it will be a very hard target. S-400 still uses X band for engagement which is the frequency band the mostly affected by stealth. I wouldn't underestimate them. And they very well what level of stealth their f-35 has.

    The missiles don't home in to the target from launch... they are launched vertically to start with so a target 400km is hardly going to be lock on before launch.

    Pretty much any platform can detect the stealthy threat and pass the general location to the S-400 battery and a missile can be launched to intercept... instead of detecting the F-35 at 50km it might only detect it at 30km, but that doesn't matter much because until the missile gets its own lock onto the target it can be guided closer to the target using other information from other types of sensors including L band radar or even IR sensors.

    Turkish and Indian s-400 won't be game changers at all.

    If you don't have an IADS then the S-400 could be kept mobile and will always be a serious threat to any aircraft operating in the area... the battery could operate with radar listening only and receive target information from radar batteries nearby that are doing the scanning in whatever frequency needed to detect stealthy targets... but it is Americans that talk about game changers... but then they are the ones fixated with gender changers too.

    Official story about the f-117 is that they downed it when it had opened its bomb bays and the p-18 detected it at short range, not that far away.

    It can only carry two bombs and the bomb bays remain open for seconds each time so it would hardly be enough for a missile lock and a missile launch and a successful interception... imagine if it was really stealthy and therefore invisible... you 360 degree scanning ability with a radar means your radars are spinning... what scan rate for a conventional radar... 6 scans per minute? What are the chances of the bomb bay being open at exactly the few seconds the radar is scanning past... more importantly in an aircraft that should detect the radar and know when the beam is going to scan past... with a laser guided bomb you open the bay... release the bomb or bombs and close in a couple of seconds... surely you could time it when the local radars are not looking at your aircraft... because if they can't see you are there they wont be sector scanning they will be scanning the entire night sky so even from close range they wont know you are there... even if they have your precise flight plans it would not help much...

    Example, a potato peeling capability of a soldier is very important in certain situations, but having superior potato peelers will not win a war.

    Especially potato peeling machines that are 20 million dollars each... they wont win a war but they could lose a cold war based on economics...
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    Post  havok on Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    We bash a lot the f35 here including me but US have spent a lot in stealth and are without a doubt the best in that field.

    The fact that many of its serious faults are known and still accepted and yet it remains enormously expensive to both buy and to operate makes me think it is all a Soviet era plot to destroy the west... in many ways it is like a supercar... looks cool in pictures but a pain in the ass to actually own or use... small and uncomfortable... uses enormous amounts of fuel just idling, and way too much power and performance for any normal person to use safely on imperfect roads us mere mortals have to navigate every day.
    By that argument, the MIG-25 was an even worse POS. When I was active duty and on the F-16, our squadron had a limited time to see the actual MIG-25 technical analyses from 1976 supplemented by today's analyses. The room was standing room only. Everyone was interested, from maintenance to aircrew. By our standards, the MIG-25 would have never been inducted in the first place, and we had our shares of clunkers.

    The F-35 will be the next F-16 despite its controversial history, just like the F-16 was when it was inducted.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:01 am

    By that argument, the MIG-25 was an even worse POS.

    Yeah, that just shows why Americans are such idiots... the MiG-25 was exactly what it was supposed to be, it was Americans that thought it was a Soviet F-15 like aircraft, and their disappointment when they finally got their hands on one to realise it was just a replacement for the Su-15 and Su-11 and Tu-128 interceptors and also to be used as a recon aircraft well it is self explanatory really isn't it?

    The F-35 on the other hand is billed as a super fighter that will replace all other western fighters... of course it is going to fail, and as the cracks get worse and the more countries notice them the less they will want, so claims of 3,500 for NATO will be more like 1,200 if they are lucky... or should that be unlucky...

    The Americans were so scared of how powerful the MiG-25 was going to be they actually copied its design and layout in the hopes they could match its perceived performance... I thought it was hilarious during the 1980s when the west was claiming the MiG-29 and the Su-27 were copies of western aircraft... F-18 and F-15 respectively mentioned as the basis when in reality all four aircraft have the same basic layout as the MiG-25... but that has always been a trick of the west... blame your enemies for your own crimes...

    By our standards, the MIG-25 would have never been inducted in the first place, and we had our shares of clunkers.

    Of course... there was not enough in the way of profit margin... making a plane out of stainless steel is just too easy... what you really need is a gold plated plane made of Titanium or unobtainium would be better...
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    Post  havok on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    By that argument, the MIG-25 was an even worse POS.

    Yeah, that just shows why Americans are such idiots... the MiG-25 was exactly what it was supposed to be, it was Americans that thought it was a Soviet F-15 like aircraft,
    Correct, we were idiots in believing that the MIG-25 is anything like the F-15. By our standards, the MIG-25 was a POS. By yours? Anything you like.

    GarryB wrote:The F-35 on the other hand is billed as a super fighter that will replace all other western fighters... of course it is going to fail,...
    No, the F-35 will not fail. The F-35 is inevitable. The evolution of the fighter class itself is proof of that.

    How many bombers have the Soviet Union and Russia sold? Not much. And for US, none.

    The usage of the fighter always evolved into the fighter-bomber because that is all the rest of the world's air forces can afford. The F-35 will be a success your Russia will not have.

    GarryB wrote:The Americans were so scared of how powerful the MiG-25 was going to be they actually copied its design and layout...
    Bullshit. Very Happy

    Both the F-15 and the MIG-25 came from the A-5 Vigilante. When I attended the technical presentation of the MIG-25, that was made clear in the first five minutes.
    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:05 pm

    havok wrote:

    Both the F-15 and the MIG-25 came from the A-5 Vigilante. When I attended the technical presentation of the MIG-25, that was made clear in the first five minutes.

    interesting, the A-5 was a joint USA/CCCP project?

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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:46 pm


    So we are going back on topic when?
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    So we are going back on topic when?

    Never, because our dumbass mods keep fakes and morons around that just screw up conversations with their BS.

    Lets be honest here, we have a lot of "experts" who claim to have such experience but they are nobodies. Mostly just keyboard warriors with quite the fantasy of a life.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:50 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    So we are going back on topic when?

    Never, because our dumbass mods keep fakes and morons around that just screw up conversations with their BS.

    Lets be honest here, we have a lot of "experts" who claim to have such experience but they are nobodies. Mostly just keyboard warriors with quite the fantasy of a life.


    Our mods are ones going off topic with them, like WTF?
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:50 am

    Correct, we were idiots in believing that the MIG-25 is anything like the F-15. By our standards, the MIG-25 was a POS. By yours? Anything you like.

    No. That would be ARE idiots if you still haven't worked out that the MiG-25 was never intended to be an F-15 like aircraft... in terms of interception performance the F-15 is pretty ordinary and would not have been effective, so even by your standards the F-15 is an over engineered POS interceptor only good for taking on third world countries after a few years of sanctions first.

    No, the F-35 will not fail. The F-35 is inevitable. The evolution of the fighter class itself is proof of that.

    It already has failed... it was supposed to be a super new stealth fighter that will penetrate Russian air defences with impunity because it will be invisible... and it wont even enter Syrian airspace...

    How many bombers have the Soviet Union and Russia sold? Not much. And for US, none.

    Su-34 and F-15E are strike aircraft... and the F-35 is not being sold as a bomber... it is being sold as a replacement for all 4th gen fighters for NATO and they are already developing alternatives...

    The usage of the fighter always evolved into the fighter-bomber because that is all the rest of the world's air forces can afford. The F-35 will be a success your Russia will not have.

    An airforce of one because that will be all they can afford... how to destroy NATO air power...

    Makes S-400/S-500 redundant really because there will be so few aircraft NATO can afford...

    Of course I would love to see them make 5,000 F-35s... that would help Russia no end.

    Both the F-15 and the MIG-25 came from the A-5 Vigilante. When I attended the technical presentation of the MIG-25, that was made clear in the first five minutes.

    Did they also say Saddam had WMDs ready to launch in 45 minutes warning?

    Can they explain why the MiG-25 had two side by side engines like the MiG-19 and the Vigilante, but the wings of the MiG-25 look nothing like the long swept wings of the Vigilante... which look rather more like the wings of the F-14 and nothing like the F-15... and the Vigilante has a single vertical tail structure like the MiG-19... if anything the Vigilante looks like the Tu-128 in layout and planform, but the F-15 looks almost identical to the MiG-25, yet the MiG-25 really doesn't look much like the Vigilante at all...
    Ironically if the Vigilante looks like any aircraft it is the British TSR-2 but with a more swept back smaller wing for low altitude high speed flight.


    Our mods are ones going off topic with them, like WTF?

    Sorry your majesty... like you never ever go off topic.

    I will shift the off topic stuff tomorrow.

    BTW 4 day break for Mike... it is the sort of thing dumbass mods like me do.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:16 pm

    I cant take people serious who doubt the moon landing.

    All nations followed this, including the USSR. This is totally out of debate.

    As for the communist rubbish.

    People are different. We have different IQ, different boy strength. Different looks. We team up with those close to us.

    I dont team up with people who have an IQ below 100. I dont team up with people of different skills or whatever.

    I absolutely and in evry way hate evrything even remotely communist. I even hate socialism.

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:31 am

    So if a person of below average IQ made the ashphalt used in the roads near where you live you will refuse to use them?

    Most of the low IQ people I know are much more honest and less manipulative than some of the smarter people I know... and while there is a threshold... really dumb people don't stay rich very long, but the smartest people are not always the richest... Bill Gates is not that smart... what he is is ruthless.
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    Post  Aristide on Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:So if a person of below average IQ made the ashphalt used in the roads near where you live you will refuse to use them?

    Most of the low IQ people I know are much more honest and less manipulative than some of the smarter people I know... and while there is a threshold... really dumb people don't stay rich very long, but the smartest people are not always the richest... Bill Gates is not that smart... what he is is ruthless.

    The cow that makes the milk i drink is low iq as well. Same counts for tge chicken that lays eggs.

    Thats what workers are for. I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:22 pm

    Aristide wrote:...... I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.

    Are you trying to have political discussion here or are you advertising your gay prostitution services? Suspect

    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:30 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Aristide wrote:...... I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.

    Are you trying to have political discussion here or are you advertising your gay prostitution services?   Suspect


    Sorry, im not into that. You might look elsewhere if interested for such service.

    Beside that, using homosexuality as something to insult or provocate someone? Really?
    You shouldnt do that, it appears primitive and makes you target of hillbilly comments in Europe.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:51 am

    Aristide wrote:
    GarryB wrote:So if a person of below average IQ made the ashphalt used in the roads near where you live you will refuse to use them?

    Most of the low IQ people I know are much more honest and less manipulative than some of the smarter people I know... and while there is a threshold... really dumb people don't stay rich very long, but the smartest people are not always the richest... Bill Gates is not that smart... what he is is ruthless.

    The cow that makes the milk i drink is low iq as well. Same counts for tge chicken that lays eggs.

    Thats what workers are for. I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.

    Aristide wrote:Beside that, using homosexuality as something to insult or provocate someone? Really?
    You shouldnt do that, it appears primitive and makes you target of hillbilly comments in Europe.

    You shouldn't put road builder as the same level as dairy cows and chickens. It appears completely stupid, it shows that you have zero IQ, that you do not have the ability to be thankful and makes you target of criticism in the whole world.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:52 am

    Aristide wrote:
    GarryB wrote:So if a person of below average IQ made the ashphalt used in the roads near where you live you will refuse to use them?

    Most of the low IQ people I know are much more honest and less manipulative than some of the smarter people I know... and while there is a threshold... really dumb people don't stay rich very long, but the smartest people are not always the richest... Bill Gates is not that smart... what he is is ruthless.

    The cow that makes the milk i drink is low iq as well. Same counts for tge chicken that lays eggs.

    Thats what workers are for. I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.

    1) Aristide does not work. His income comes from exploitation of the labour of others.

    2) Aristide's body is useless. It is not used for making any contribution to this world. Aristide's body is just a bunch of useless muscle mas which has no use, which cannot do anything to build and maintain this society.

    3) Aristide considers workers is at the same level of animals. Similar to a slave owners who treat his slaves, and that viewpoint is a gross violation against basic human rights and human dignity.

    4) Aristide only care about his own freedom and interest, he is willing to trample on others freedom to increase his own, he is willing to trample on other humans including members of Russia Defence Forum if that suits his own interest.

    5) Consider these above points I propose a permanent ban against Aristide. This forum is only for any individual who respects others' basic human rights and dignity, not for individuals who have such a disgusting viewpoint like above.
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    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:31 am

    Aristide wrote:
    GarryB wrote:So if a person of below average IQ made the ashphalt used in the roads near where you live you will refuse to use them?

    Most of the low IQ people I know are much more honest and less manipulative than some of the smarter people I know... and while there is a threshold... really dumb people don't stay rich very long, but the smartest people are not always the richest... Bill Gates is not that smart... what he is is ruthless.

    The cow that makes the milk i drink is low iq as well. Same counts for tge chicken that lays eggs.

    Thats what workers are for. I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.

    Milk is terribly bad for you. As a bodybuilder you should known that. I had stones removed from me when thanks to it. There are better sources of calcium.

    Also, most of the road workers have it easy- their job might be somewhat physical demanding because they are exposed to elements, but it's highly regulated.

    There's nothing to be ashamed from doing manual labour.
    I've did my share of dirty jobs as a student. I drove trucks while I when I moved out to fund my personal development.
    My father had plastic windows/isolation/furniture company and in early 90s and I was his labourer, driver, security guard, buhalter and muscle if someone was late paying up. I would be wrong saying that I earned the most money in my life in 90s by installing plastic windows, micron foil, thermal insulation than what I've earn in my own wee company now. It was a joy of having little to no competition.

    Oh yes, I've worked in Norway as well - where I was literally stacking tyres in yard and then took them to Lithuania on a truck. Tyres that were literally thrown out for disposal in Norway were sold for good money after refurbishment in Lithuania. Now I was working hard as a slave in cotton plantation, but reward was motivating as I was self employed and couldn't spare unreliable man to do my job. Manual labour jobs could have turned millions of dollars without even paying vat due to nature of business in interior decoration as well. This what my wife's family did. Tho, sudden influx of money destroyed them.

    Now my best friend works with dangerous/explosive material transportation and he has fireworks company too and he does all the hard lifting in his 50s. He hires people to run social media, deal with authorities and etc, he just drives and sets up displays.. one of the richest people from poor background I know. Earns loads of money from breeding horses too and renting countryside houses/properties for weddings and parties. No job is below him.
    It's all about who you work for- you will find a good employee/employer balance if you are self employed Smile
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:41 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Aristide wrote:...... I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.

    Are you trying to have political discussion here or are you advertising your gay prostitution services?   Suspect


    Sorry, im not into that. You might look elsewhere if interested for such service.

    You are one trying to sell his bum online, I was just pointing out that you are doing it in wrong location

    And you don't need to be into that in order to get paid for renting your services, as an Arab immigrant who for some reason spends most of his time in spa and shooting roids you should know that



    Aristide wrote:
    Beside that, using homosexuality as something to insult or provocate someone? Really?
    You shouldnt do that, it appears primitive and makes you target of hillbilly comments in Europe.


    It's not insult, just observation​

    Sorry if it hit close to home



    Aristide
    Aristide

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    Post  Aristide on Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:41 pm

    Regular wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    GarryB wrote:So if a person of below average IQ made the ashphalt used in the roads near where you live you will refuse to use them?

    Most of the low IQ people I know are much more honest and less manipulative than some of the smarter people I know... and while there is a threshold... really dumb people don't stay rich very long, but the smartest people are not always the richest... Bill Gates is not that smart... what he is is ruthless.

    The cow that makes the milk i drink is low iq as well. Same counts for tge chicken that lays eggs.

    Thats what workers are for. I have the body to build streets. I do competive bodybuilding. But i use it to train and work out and chill in the spa. Im not a worker.

    Milk is terribly bad for you. As a bodybuilder you should known that. I had stones removed from me when thanks to it. There are better sources of calcium.

    Also, most of the road workers have it easy- their job might be somewhat physical demanding because they are exposed to elements, but it's highly regulated.

    There's nothing to be ashamed from doing manual labour.
    I've did my share of dirty jobs as a student. I drove trucks while I when I moved out to fund my personal development.
    My father had plastic windows/isolation/furniture company and in early 90s and I was his labourer, driver, security guard, buhalter and muscle if someone was late paying up. I would be wrong saying that I earned the most money in my life in 90s by installing plastic windows, micron foil, thermal insulation than what I've earn in my own wee company now. It was a joy of having little to no competition.

    Oh yes, I've worked in Norway as well - where I was literally stacking tyres in yard and then took them to Lithuania on a truck. Tyres that were literally thrown out for disposal in Norway were sold for good money after refurbishment in Lithuania. Now I was working hard as a slave in cotton plantation, but reward was motivating as I was self employed and couldn't spare unreliable man to do my job. Manual labour jobs could have turned millions of dollars without even paying vat due to nature of business in interior decoration as well. This what my wife's family did. Tho, sudden influx of money destroyed them.

    Now my best friend works with dangerous/explosive material transportation and he has fireworks company too and he does all the hard lifting in his 50s. He hires people to run social media, deal with authorities and etc, he just drives and sets up displays.. one of the richest people from poor background I know. Earns loads of money from breeding horses too and renting countryside houses/properties for weddings and parties. No job is below him.
    It's all about who you work for- you will find a good employee/employer balance if you are self employed Smile

    I Ddrnk mostly soy milk.
    Also i have high respect for workers. I just could imagine to do such work like building a street. Maybe i expressed wrong.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:47 pm

    Aristide wrote:I Ddrnk mostly soy milk...

    And not a single person was surprised



    Aristide wrote:...Also i have high respect for workers. I just could imagine to do such work like building a street.

    I am sure that they could never imagine themselves in your line of "work" either

    But I do doubt that respect would go both ways in this case



    Aristide wrote:...Maybe i expressed wrong.

    Nah, you definitely hit the nail on the head with that one




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