Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Talking bollocks thread #2

    dino00
    dino00

    Posts : 762
    Points : 805
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 31
    Location : portugal

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  dino00 on Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:38 pm

    southpark wrote:But the Russian's are people with conscience, how can they do business with people that support chemical attacks and shot down their own planes (Turkey)....that would be impossible...NOT
    Lure and purpose of the money is not very resistible I guess

    Turkish president apologizes for downing of Russian warplane last year

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/turkey-apologizes-for-shooting-down-russian-warplane-last-year/2016/06/27/d969e0ea-3c6d-11e6-9e16-4cf01a41decb_story.html?utm_term=.3c285d62f576

    And

    U.S. and Taliban Edge Toward Deal to End America’s Longest War

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/26/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-peace-deal.html
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:51 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Turkish president apologizes for downing of Russian warplane last year

    Lol, I almost spilled my coffee this morning....I guess you believed in the octopus or fish (whatever) picking the winner in worldcup games. Anyway for grownup's it is simply business.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7795
    Points : 7889
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:39 pm

    southpark wrote:But the Russian's are people with conscience, how can they do business with people that support chemical attacks and shot down their own planes (Turkey)....that would be impossible...NOT
    Lure and purpose of the money is not very resistible I guess

    Only one thing matters in real world: money, principles don't count for shit

    Money what gives you power and keeps you alive, the lessons Soviets never learned

    In politics Russian conscience matters as much as American honesty and dedication to justice, democracy and human rights

    Basically stories for little children and sheep that compromise majority of population

    I hope most posters here are above buying into that idiotic nonsense
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I hope most posters here are above buying into that idiotic nonsense

    You said it better than me....Some wise guy once said, "we always underestimate number of stupid even in count of 2". I am not pointing at anyone...if it makes you feel better, I could be in that 2.
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 1229
    Points : 1227
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    southpark wrote:But the Russian's are people with conscience, how can they do business with people that support chemical attacks and shot down their own planes (Turkey)....that would be impossible...NOT
    Lure and purpose of the money is not very resistible I guess

    Only one thing matters in real world: money, principles don't count for shit

    Money what gives you power and keeps you alive, the lessons Soviets never learned

    In politics Russian conscience matters as much as American honesty and dedication to justice, democracy and human rights

    Basically stories for little children and sheep that compromise majority of population

    I hope most posters here are above buying into that idiotic nonsense

    Hey don't wake the sheep up, clinging to principles is what makes people easy to use like dogs.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20291
    Points : 20845
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:19 am

    Glad to see you have some free time to chat... we know you are very busy with your 9-5 job...

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 13588710
    jhelb
    jhelb

    Posts : 549
    Points : 636
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  jhelb on Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:18 pm

    I discovered a word this year - LIESCAPE. It is such a fabulous word. Seems newly-minted.

    Liescape is a vivid, detailed vision of a friendly reality you want to broadcast around to everyone.

    You build it up by the sheer power of your persuasion and carefully selected alternative facts. In the era of post-truth, it defeats all the lying media, breaks down the wall of fake news and brings you and your friends to a universe of crispy clarity and distinct purpose.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4105
    Points : 4210
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  kvs on Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:23 pm

    jhelb wrote:I discovered a word this year - LIESCAPE. It is such a fabulous word. Seems newly-minted.

    Liescape is a vivid, detailed vision of a friendly reality you want to broadcast around to everyone.

    You build it up by the sheer power of your persuasion and carefully selected alternative facts. In the era of post-truth, it defeats all the lying media, breaks down the wall of fake news and brings you and your friends to a universe of crispy clarity and distinct purpose.

    Nothing new. Humans have been living in all sorts of delusion bubbles for as long as they have existed. That is why populists and
    propagandists can gain traction. They just need to dial the right delusion frequencies and reinforce the delusion bubbles. The
    average prole does not exert their brain too much.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20291
    Points : 20845
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:55 pm

    Yeah, says the all knowing you. You think everyone is an idiot except for you. You are like John Mccain/Obama not respecting their opponents and calling them "Russia is a gas station, Putin is a thug" blah blah....you are no different....how old are you man that you have so much wisdom that you share it with so much modesty?

    Tell me I am wrong... the primary long range air to air weapon of the F-35 and F-22 is the radar guided AMRAAM... a weapon that was struggling to get funding in 1990 because everyone thought the western air power would walk all over the eastern block with their eyes closed... why spend money on a missile with it own radar... but then they got access to export model MiG-29s with R-73s and they shit themselves... they couldn't fight in close or they would get their arses kicked and Sparrow was a rather ordinary weapon at the time so funding went crazy for AMRAAM... in fact they were so scared of the MiG-29 R-73 combo that they didn't do much about WVR combat for quite a while and the Europeans had to end up making the ASRAAM partner to AMRAAM all by themselves, but those backstabbing Americans didn't buy it and went their own way as usual... you guys almost got awesome FN FALs instead of M14s you know... you promised to buy them if the Belgians supported the 7.62x51mm calibre, which they did...

    The problem with an BVR missile is it gives the enemy time to do something about it, so PK against aware targets is pretty damn low... not really good news for the F-22 or F-35 now is it, because they gave up dogfight capability so they could be stealthy...

    Do you want me to list the American firsts that you take for granted without thinking? Bias is one thing but you are dangerously dumb....

    Wow... an American offering to tell me how wonderful America is... boy, that makes a change...

    Vehicles that Russian doesnt operate itsself have almost never been bought. Nobody bought the T-90MS, MiG-35 or original BMPT.

    India is buying the upgraded T-90s and it is likely a few other countries will buy them... Russia bought some domestic models too of course. MiG-35 is entering service at a low rate to start with, and one of the stans uses the BMPT design...

    Most of central and south america had F-5s in service and later F-20s...

    Mig-35 has the same problem but it is also a company in bad situation as Russian air force preferes Sukhoi and the issue with Algerian SMTs is still well known. That doesn't help.

    The company is UAC and they are doing fine...

    If they want to sell mig-35 and t-90MS, they will need to include lot of ToT in their contracts and allow clients to build lot of spare parts themselves.

    India has already ordered upgraded T-90s, and the Russian AF is taking delivery of 6 MiG-35s too.

    Russia does not have infinite money and even if it did there is no point wasting extra money getting something in to mass production that they don't need in mass production... unless they can get signed export contracts to ensure they will keep making them long enough to make it worth while.

    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    @GarryB


    The point is wars are fought with strategies and each has their own....on paper USSR had more air power than Germany but it was all taken out because offenders have that surprize edge and more modern tech and they were pretty much grounded in the first year. You really think American's are stupid to design a plane that is a total disaster....I actually think F35 has a lot of potential once they crank out the remaining issues...engines are great and maintenance of F-119 and F-135 engines are basically a marvel.....Watch the documentaries on F22 and F35 on youtube and listen to pilot's that honestly say what they are training for....they explicitly stated that they train for strategies in a "contested airspace". These are not some 2 bit reporters that sensationalize like you. It is a flawed way to assume that F-35 can carry only 4 missile's and blah blah...NATO has other fighters like Rafale's, F-15's e.t.c so I am sure they have their own strategies to counter the threats by using their fleet in way to increase success rates against opponents.

    If Russia is so superior in every category, then no need to worry about NATO or anyone else as they already can beat anyone to pulp according to you...aircraft carriers obsolete, Aegis pointless, F-22 and F35 built to fight 80's planes and so on....except reality is different as even a mig-21 can shot down modern F-16. Lot more factors to consider than your fantasy dick sizing everything....basically try not to make cheap and loose comment's as it shows your lack of respect.
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:38 am

    So far its been over promise and under deliver and too much talking....space competition is heating up while they are talking.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7795
    Points : 7889
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:46 am

    dino00 wrote:
    Austin wrote:Interview with Dimitri Rogozin

    https://www.kp.ru/best/msk/dmitrij-rogozin-v-kp/

    Not just interview, Tremendous interview!
    2022 is the breakthrough year

    Every year for the past 20 years has been "breakthrough year"

    Do I need to remind you where those "breakthroughs" landed them?

    I see that talk is still the cheapest and most readily available resource...




    southpark wrote:So far its been over promise and under deliver and too much talking....space competition is heating up while they are talking.

    You shouldn't have said that, now you will get the lecture about how every single f*ckup by Roskosmos is actually massive success and part of the grand plan by Space Jesus Rogozin lol1
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:58 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    You shouldn't have said that, now you will get the lecture about how every single f*ckup by Roskosmos is actually massive success and part of the grand plan by Space Jesus Rogozin lol1

    I am ready to respond with my electronic warfare tools, the newly custom built mechanical keyboard...I guess I can claim the keyboard warrior title :-)

    On a serious note, the roscosmos looks to be disorganized and in disarray constantly proposing new stuff (I will take it as fantasy) and losing credibility coming from rich tradition.
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:04 am

    LMFS wrote:
    bolshevik345 wrote:What if there is a a sudden insurmountable engineering problem with the 30? Until 2014 everything with the redut was just peachy. Until it wasnt. Will the Su-57 be delayed as long as the 30 is delayed?
    That is increasingly unlikely the more the development progresses. First the conceptual design is laid down and materials are developed, then the prototypes are tested during lots of years in the benches and only then the integration with the plane is performed. This last step is ongoing since end of 2017, so already close to 1.5 years, maybe 2-3 years more needed, but no plane tests would have been started if they were not sure about the basic suitability of the design. They have proceeded in a very risk-conscious way, in fact now that I think of it, the very existence of the izd. 117 is maybe a risk management measure.

    To address your question, since the 1st stage engine is compatible with the requirements, it would be no big issue at least to ensure acceptable functionality. But I could perfectly understand VKS wanting to tailor their orders to the results of the 2nd stage engine tests.

    Some people here(and the MoD) are unusually enthusiastic about dropping that ball. Good thing they didnt drop the ball in 1979. Otherwise russia would have 12 Su-27s/MiG-29s and a whole bunch of MiG-23MLDM5M3UMs in 1989.
    Razz  Don't think MoD wants to do so, let's wait until the end of the development of the izd. 30 before making conclusions

    For good or bad, Russian/Soviet engines do not seem to have the same reliability or life vs Western makers (Indian's seem to complain a lot)....do they export lower quality engines than domestic?
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1398
    Points : 1392
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  LMFS on Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:08 am

    southpark wrote:For good or bad, Russian/Soviet engines do not seem to have the same reliability or life vs Western makers (Indian's seem to complain a lot)....do they export lower quality engines than domestic?
    No idea if they supply worse quality abroad. Newer engines have increased life compared to older models but I don't really know how they compare vs. Western engines.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7795
    Points : 7889
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:05 pm

    southpark wrote:For good or bad, Russian/Soviet engines do not seem to have the same reliability or life vs Western makers (Indian's seem to complain a lot)....do they export lower quality engines than domestic?


    India routine complains about everything, loads of other countries use Russian aircraft and engines (even NATO ones) and they seem to have no issues with them

    I would bet that what we are looking at here is legendary Indian maintenance culture coupled with urgent need to wash themselves of ridicule they rightfully incurred with that latest disaster with Pakistan
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 3074
    Points : 3068
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Isos on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:14 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    southpark wrote:For good or bad, Russian/Soviet engines do not seem to have the same reliability or life vs Western makers (Indian's seem to complain a lot)....do they export lower quality engines than domestic?


    India routine complains about everything, loads of other countries use Russian aircraft and engines (even NATO ones) and they seem to have no issues with them

    I would bet that what we are looking at here is legendary Indian maintenance culture coupled with urgent need to wash themselves of ridicule they rightfully incurred with that latest disaster with Pakistan

    Ironically, pakistan uses the same engine on jf-17 as indian mig-29s and had never issues with them.

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20291
    Points : 20845
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:28 pm

    on paper USSR had more air power than Germany but it was all taken out because offenders have that surprize edge and more modern tech and they were pretty much grounded in the first year.

    Well more accurately the Germans had the experienced pilots and ground crews who had just wiped out the other airforces of europe, so when they attacked the Soviet Union they had a serious advantage in quality and tactics and experienced personnel.

    The vast majority of aircraft they destroyed in the first few months were lined up on the ground, which was rather good for the Soviets, but problems were still obvious. They needed new aircraft and more trained pilots which they didn't really achieve until about 1942 with the La-5 and of course the Yak series of fighters.

    You really think American's are stupid to design a plane that is a total disaster....

    Stupid, no, assholes... yes.

    These are not some 2 bit reporters that sensationalize like you. It is a flawed way to assume that F-35 can carry only 4 missile's and blah blah...

    Yeah... polish that turd till it shines like a diamond fart...

    You guys should make 10,000 of them... I double dare you...

    If Russia is so superior in every category, then no need to worry about NATO or anyone else as they already can beat anyone to pulp according to you...aircraft carriers obsolete, Aegis pointless, F-22 and F35 built to fight 80's planes and so on....except reality is different as even a mig-21 can shot down modern F-16. Lot more factors to consider than your fantasy dick sizing everything....basically try not to make cheap and loose comment's as it shows your lack of respect.

    You are the one being a dick... the only thing that matters is strategic nukes and each side has enough to destroy the other and despite all your fucking shiny toys worth enough money to make every person in the US a multi millionaire, but instead will make a couple of people in the US multi billionaires, there is nothing you can do about it... 11 carrier groups plus about 13 marine carrier groups, plus thousands of stealth fighters and stealth bombers and satellites and transport planes and inflight refuelling tankers and JSTARS and drones and AWACS and all your other shit, you can't show any real superiority over a third world country that is a gas station with nukes... you pathetic bastards.

    But that has not stopped the chest pumping and the flexing of muscles and the sanctions and the constant abuse and ridicule... we are tired of you...

    In 12 years no T-90MS in the Indian army. Zero. Zilch.Nada. Its always a deal being "finalized".

    Yet no alternative has popped up for them in the mean time, so if it was signed today they would take them right?

    BTW how many years did they negotiate over the Gorshkov carrier?

    What if there is a a sudden insurmountable engineering problem with the 30? Until 2014 everything with the redut was just peachy. Until it wasnt. Will the Su-57 be delayed as long as the 30 is delayed?

    It sounds like it is practically ready... what insurmountable engineering problem are you suggesting? That its WiFi doesn't work at supersonic speeds?

    Is that something to be proud of?

    How many vehicles you designed in service?

    Some people here(and the MoD) are unusually enthusiastic about dropping that ball. Good thing they didnt drop the ball in 1979. Otherwise russia would have 12 Su-27s/MiG-29s and a whole bunch of MiG-23MLDM5M3UMs in 1989.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA... funny you mention that because have you actually looked properly at the design and production history of those two aircraft?

    There were all sorts of problems and delays... for fucks sake they had to totally redesign the Su-27 because the prototype was rubbish. There were delays with the R-73 so the first MiG-29s had R-60s instead and the only missiles the first MiG-29s could carry were two R-27R and four R-60s. Later they got R-73s, but only the MiG-29UBs that didn't have radar could carry the IR guided model of the R-27.

    The early model IRST on the MiG was worse than the last model IRST on the MiG-23 and the MiG-23 accelerated better and had longer flight range... the MiG-29s radar and R-27 missiles were better, but they didn't produce them very quickly to start with, and the Su-27 was even worse... they had problems producing the avionics and radar systems for it... they had hundreds of Su-27 airframes stacked up waiting for bits to make them aircraft...

    For good or bad, Russian/Soviet engines do not seem to have the same reliability or life vs Western makers (Indian's seem to complain a lot)....do they export lower quality engines than domestic?

    Soviet and Russian weapons were made for war, so while they did need more regular maintenance and overhauls, the maintenance was simple and easy, and in a real war most aircraft wont need an overhaul during that period, compared with western aircraft that will likely need rather more work that just putting fuel in them and taking off.

    But then the 8,000 flight hours the F-35 is supposed to achieve is more like 2,000 hours in the real world.

    I spoke to an Aussie about the C-17s they bought... supposed to be really flash and capable but they were told its ability to land on short rough airstrips will invalidate the airframe guarantee for flight hours... so they can either last for x thousand hours or you can use them for rough short airstrips with reduced loads and the flight hours will be a fraction of what we told you they were.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20291
    Points : 20845
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:38 pm

    On a serious note, the roscosmos looks to be disorganized and in disarray constantly proposing new stuff (I will take it as fantasy) and losing credibility coming from rich tradition.

    Yeah, those idiots couldn't organise a ride to the ISS... Razz

    Sour Puss... Papa Dragqueen is just bitter.

    Most people really don't give a shit about space or space exploration and these are the people who pay for it most of the time...

    Still the sooner that the US can make its own rocket motors the sooner they will drop the Russians as a partner and Russia can get serious about their own space programme.
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Yeah, those idiots couldn't organise a ride to the ISS...  Razz

    Yeah, those idiots could not build their own passenger planes and still use windows operating system in their defense plants and factories (have seen numerous documentaries on zvezda channel) and import cutting machines, lathes, CNC's and so on.....your cheap comments are worth less than a cheap trick....atleast trick offers someone a service but your comments offer basically nothing. It does not mean they can't build their own or viceversa, it just makes sense in the interest of optimization.....one dimensional bubbleman like you is not expected to grasp it.


    Sour Puss... Papa Dragqueen is just bitter.

    Anyone can see roscosmos has been acting like a cheap bitch without actions....even the PM warned them recently less talk and more action but you are all knowing with your silly view of the world. Ofcourse if it is US then it is all corruption because nothing gets delivered but if it is Russia then it is all normal....I don't even remember what type of rockets they proposed so far and what got approved and what got delivered.....in your fantasy world they already went to Mars....

    While I understand the impact of 90's on them, more talking just takes away their credibility...unless they want an average that reflects the number of posts you have so far and the corresponding quality of those posts. They have been a disgrace to their Soviet past, new chief comes and he talks more....I don't even remember how many got turned over now....


    Most people really don't give a shit about space or space exploration and these are the people who pay for it most of the time...

    Most people don't give a shit about anything other than themselves....you being one of them.


    Still the sooner that the US can make its own rocket motors the sooner they will drop the Russians as a partner and Russia can get serious about their own space programme.

    You think they don't understand that? For the US it just makes sense now....we (some of our geniuses in DC) built the dependency thinking exactly like you and showing no respect for opponents and expecting them to never recover. I like positive competition vs negative stepping over.

    PS: On a personal note, don't take it personal....I hope you are not one of those snowflakes....as long as we don't denigrate into "yomomma" sophistication, retorts are acceptable to me.
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:24 pm

    I will just respond in summary....

    Tech really does not matter when strategy is poor....always on defensive and fighting wars on your soil is not something to be proud off excessively....a skilled craftsmen can use basic tools and yet make something useful and desirable and a poorly skilled one having greatest stuff can't make shit...US pilots vs Russian pilot dog fight can go either way mostly based on the skill of the each pilot...F-35 is not in the same class vs Su-35 or even Su-30 as it will use different tactics and designed to meet different requirements. They are not going to shutdown the F-35, it is a 50 year platform just like Ford class which is 100 year platform....shutting down F-22 was a mistake by Donald duck Rimmer and Gates without giving it a chance to see further evolution...

    You are correct about one thing....nukes will negate every advantage in a direct confrontation. So you assuming entire F-35 as a failure is too premature and nonsensical. It is built with a different strategical warfare and will operate in mixed fleets....most of the F-35's capabilities are still highly classified and even the partners are not getting to know everything. Whether it is hot air I do not know....none of the Russian stuff is proven in a peer to peer combat either....on paper "they will have no analogues".

    To your other question....USSR couldn't win against Afghanistan either and pathetically collapsed, so what is your point? As I said wrong goals especially fighting profit wars (is there any other kind?) and half hearted and poor strategies are not going to win against anyone or anything.

    F-135 is built on F-119 which accumulated over 200k hours....you are an idiot to constantly look down on competition but you are like "n" zeroes without a significant bit. So your opinions are worth that much.
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:33 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    southpark wrote:For good or bad, Russian/Soviet engines do not seem to have the same reliability or life vs Western makers (Indian's seem to complain a lot)....do they export lower quality engines than domestic?


    India routine complains about everything, loads of other countries use Russian aircraft and engines (even NATO ones) and they seem to have no issues with them

    I would bet that what we are looking at here is legendary Indian maintenance culture coupled with urgent need to wash themselves of ridicule they rightfully incurred with that latest disaster with Pakistan

    May be true but Pakistan does not have the numbers that India has nor the years of experience in operating Soviet or Russian ones, tbh I do not know much about it but the soviet civilian engines were 1 to 2 gen's behind in lot of parameters vs Western ones and even their documentaries acknowledged so. They obviously can build eg Mig 31 engines but may be design philosophies are different. They also look not so refined to see especially plumbing vs PW, Snecma and so on...does not necessarily mean inferior characteristics.
    avatar
    southpark

    Posts : 96
    Points : 98
    Join date : 2019-03-31

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:52 pm

    kvs wrote:
    southpark wrote:So far its been over promise and under deliver and too much talking....space competition is heating up while they are talking.

    Blah.  You would have had a point if the Russian launch market was collapsing but it is not.   There is lots of talk about these US
    upstarts but they are not on the market to any degree that matters.   Heating up here means hot air from pundits and wishful thinkers.
    Just to point out a good example of this BS "heating up", Musk spent a lot of time claiming that he could launch for less than $60 million
    but never brings up the fact that he is subsidized by the US government.    And Russia can afford to launch Proton class rockets for
    $30 million.   We'll see where the hot air will lead in the coming years.    I expect NATO sanctions and mafia style intimidation tactics
    to be the real market factor and not the magic of US private companies.


    That is just one angle, India, China have the potential to compete on price point in the future. Chine really did not step into it and they have a very decent launch record quantity as well as success ratio and the mission profile diversity. Also ILS which markets Russian rockets is located in US and I am sure they are cornering their profits....so you see the point? Space exploration is a prestige booster and has a hard to quantifiable value (in a positive way) to it, all this talk about different rockets has not yielded much other than for sure credibility loss. Also what do you expect for space oriented companies if not subsidies? Unless tourism becomes mass market it will continue to be subsidized one way or the other....even with that, it is not a bad thing for any country. All I am saying is talk less and get to work...even if you are working already then talk less.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20291
    Points : 20845
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:29 am

    Tech really does not matter when strategy is poor....

    The people who make the tech don't formulate the strategy.

    Plus tech is not bad if it suits the strategy... the early panzers were pretty poor in terms of the basics of tank design... ie fire power, mobility, and protection, but their layout and optics made them effective enough even against superior enemies.
    The thing is that during WWII the Soviets went from poor tactics to excellent tactics and their volume of modern equipment only increased during the period of the war... WWIII probably wont last long enough for that to matter... if your strategy is bad then you might not have time to correct it.

    always on defensive and fighting wars on your soil is not something to be proud off excessively....a skilled craftsmen can use basic tools and yet make something useful and desirable and a poorly skilled one having greatest stuff can't make shit..

    The problem there is that the US bitches and moans about the aggressive Putin and interfering this and that... if they actually decided to do what they are constantly accused of America would shit itself and who knows what they would do?

    US pilots vs Russian pilot dog fight can go either way mostly based on the skill of the each pilot...F-35 is not in the same class vs Su-35 or even Su-30 as it will use different tactics and designed to meet different requirements. They are not going to shutdown the F-35, it is a 50 year platform just like Ford class which is 100 year platform....shutting down F-22 was a mistake by Donald duck Rimmer and Gates without giving it a chance to see further evolution...

    How cute... you think the results of an air to air combat between US and Russian pilots matters...

    So you assuming entire F-35 as a failure is too premature and nonsensical.

    Oh contrare... I think the widescale production and operational use of the F-35 is going to bankrupt most NATO users... the operational costs alone will mean real weapons wont be bought for decades to come... Norway already can't afford to keep its pilots current on the aircraft because the flight hours cost too much so their planes are grounded and they don't have enough qualified ground crew or pilots to change that...

    I think they should buy 10,000 F-35s... they should be a requirement of being in NATO.

    It is built with a different strategical warfare and will operate in mixed fleets.

    Mixed fleets of what... it is replacing all previous 4th gen NATO fighters...

    .most of the F-35's capabilities are still highly classified and even the partners are not getting to know everything.

    Yeah, classified because they don't work or classified because they use Stargate technology... What a Face

    Whether it is hot air I do not know....none of the Russian stuff is proven in a peer to peer combat either....on paper "they will have no analogues".

    But everything they say is true.... Putin personally murdered both the Skripals, and two other Brits, and he is the richest man in the world because he steals from Russia like Bill Browder.... blah blah blah...

    To your other question....USSR couldn't win against Afghanistan either and pathetically collapsed, so what is your point? As I said wrong goals especially fighting profit wars (is there any other kind?) and half hearted and poor strategies are not going to win against anyone or anything.

    Why would they win... the USSR is nothing like as powerful as the 21 century last surviving superpower of the US and the UK and their coalition of the willing that went in to Afghanistan over a decade ago to turn it into a shining democratic paradise... and they didn't win either... the UK has been defeated in Afghanistan about 6 times now and always left in defeat... when are they going to learn?

    F-135 is built on F-119 which accumulated over 200k hours....you are an idiot to constantly look down on competition but you are like "n" zeroes without a significant bit. So your opinions are worth that much.

    Who cares what it is built on when what it carries around with it is a turd that will ultimately bankrupt America. It is a symptom that reveals the depth of the rot and disease and all the fanbois just think it is the best in the world... which is great...

    When your enemy is making a mistake... don't interrupt them.

    I mean the US wants Russia to put pressure on North Korea via a sanctions bill the Americans have imposed on North Korea... that same sanctions bill also imposes sanctions on Iran and Russia... so America is asking Russia to help put pressure on NK for the US based on a US law that also puts sanctions on Russia... These are the people running your country... when I first saw Southpark the cartoon, I thought things were getting bad in the US... now how bad is it when you think the people who wrote Southpark would probably do a better job of running the country than either of the potential candidates at their last election... ie trump or hillary...

    May be true but Pakistan does not have the numbers that India has nor the years of experience in operating Soviet or Russian ones, tbh I do not know much about it but the soviet civilian engines were 1 to 2 gen's behind in lot of parameters vs Western ones and even their documentaries acknowledged so. They obviously can build eg Mig 31 engines but may be design philosophies are different. They also look not so refined to see especially plumbing vs PW, Snecma and so on...does not necessarily mean inferior characteristics.

    Hahaha, Of course Soviet civilian engines are 1-2 generations behind western engines... the Soviet Union ended in 1991.

    The engines they are putting in their new civilian aircraft seem to get better performance characteristics than western engines, so perhaps they caught up...

    Funny you think tactics are more important than technology but now you think the generation of engine is critical... take your foot out of your mouth for a moment and describe how in training the generation of the MiG-21s flown by the Indians proved a problem for USAF pilots in aircraft one generation ahead (MiG-21 being a 3rd gen fighter and the F-15C being a 4th gen one)...
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20291
    Points : 20845
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:27 pm

    It does not mean they can't build their own or viceversa, it just makes sense in the interest of optimization.....one dimensional bubbleman like you is not expected to grasp it.

    America can of course make rocket engines, but the rocket engines they can make are so inferior to current Russian rockets and would cost so much more they prefer to keep buying Russia rockets, yet they still don't have a human rated rocket to reliably transport human beings to the ISS... they might have one working soon, but there is no guarantee.

    Yeah, those idiots could not build their own passenger planes and still use windows operating system in their defense plants and factories (have seen numerous documentaries on zvezda channel) and import cutting machines, lathes, CNC's and so on...

    I don't remember them claiming to be the worlds only super power that invented and produces everything of value... and you might want to check your facts... Boeing uses a lot of Russian parts and know how for many of their aircraft... and Russia is working on its alternatives for Microshaft crap too...


    Anyone can see roscosmos has been acting like a cheap bitch without actions....even the PM warned them recently less talk and more action but you are all knowing with your silly view of the world. Ofcourse if it is US then it is all corruption because nothing gets delivered but if it is Russia then it is all normal....I don't even remember what type of rockets they proposed so far and what got approved and what got delivered.....in your fantasy world they already went to Mars....

    Blah blah blah, the space programme is not important and is hardly a serious focus of Russia, the military component to get GLONASS supported and upgraded and military satellites put into orbit are important... everything else is bullshit...

    While I understand the impact of 90's on them, more talking just takes away their credibility...unless they want an average that reflects the number of posts you have so far and the corresponding quality of those posts. They have been a disgrace to their Soviet past, new chief comes and he talks more....I don't even remember how many got turned over now....

    Who cares.... it is a space programme, it does not mean much for most Russians.

    Most people don't give a shit about anything other than themselves....you being one of them.

    Oh, wow... you know me so well... why should they care about space except for defence. Why does it matter that the Russians were sending up rich westerners to their Mir space station... what did it do? It didn't get any good will from the west, the so called partnership with the ISS doesn't stop the US from putting sanctions on Russian companies for doing business world wide... what really is the point of spending any money at all?


    You think they don't understand that? For the US it just makes sense now....we (some of our geniuses in DC) built the dependency thinking exactly like you and showing no respect for opponents and expecting them to never recover. I like positive competition vs negative stepping over.

    The sooner the US is making its own rocket motors and doing its own thing the better for Russia.

    Hahahahaha... you like positive competition.... like US to EU... stop buying cheap Russian gas, you should spend more and buy our gas even though we don't produce enough to meet your demands even now let alone in 10 years time. And BTW don't buy Chinese 5G network technology because they will spy on you like we do... wait a few years while we develop the 5G technology the Chinese clearly only stole from us in the first place and let out technology help us to spy on you even more...

    Yeah, America is all about freedom and democracy and fair and open competition and if you don't agree... we will bomb you until you do.

    Sounds like all your eggs in one basket BS. Super-centralization is a defunct Soviet delusion and not some magic recipe for success.

    So tech projects like Skolkovo are a waste of time... why didn't you say before.

    Personally I think it is a very good idea, bringing together all the companies and people that are working on related things means the people can talk and share information and technology and different groups can work together...

    It is like the people developing equipment for the Ratnik series of personal equipment for soldiers, it makes sense for them to cooperate and work together because their products need to work together in the end anyway.

    Space exploration is a prestige booster and has a hard to quantifiable value (in a positive way) to it, all this talk about different rockets has not yielded much other than for sure credibility loss.

    What credibility loss... Russia is a third world gas station with nukes remember...

    Also what do you expect for space oriented companies if not subsidies? Unless tourism becomes mass market it will continue to be subsidized one way or the other....even with that, it is not a bad thing for any country.

    Yeah, more of that free market shit you keep talking about...

    But look at the US, the past success of the US is not based on its leadership, its based on an inertia from a previously highly successful structure, orientation, policy call it whatever you like.

    Nazis.


    This transcends the government and goes into corporate governance as well. The goals of the Russian companies cannot simply oriented towards the short sighted goal of simply beating the Americans in localized areas. This is what the Chinese do, but without strategy they remain coupled to America unable to exploit sovereignty from the dollar.

    Their future is without the US or the US dollar in markets they have not really tapped yet... most Russian businessmen went to western universities or were taught US economic strategies and mantra in Russian universities... they need to formulate their own future and own strategies because the American ones are destructive and self serving shit. Look at what it has done to the US right now... that is no future to wish for...

    I agree with most of the rest of what you are saying... post 2008 when Putin realised what a state the Russian military was in and the fact that the west was actually hostile to Russia and would not be fair and unbiased in the case of another international incident.... (ie Georgia invades South Ossetia and kills Russian peace keepers but the western view of things was that it was all Russias fault.... what would have happened if Japan had taken this as an opportunity to seize the Kurile islands... the Americans would have no doubt blamed Russia for the incident... and what could the Pacific forces have done against Japan at the time...

    They ordered Mistrals from France to shore up forces in the far east, and they also started seriously working on their C4IR network... their experience in Syria was largely because of the quality of their humint in the form of special forces as well as their new use of UAVs and other recon assets like the A-50U and upgraded Tu-214R and Il-22 and other platforms to locate and identify targets... the same people here demanding moon landings and mars attempts would have demanded mass production of T-90 tanks and Su-30MKI fighters at the time and of course the Su-57 going in to service early... of course that would not end in tears either...

    Of course spending on production would have taken money away from hypersonic missiles and next generation systems they were quietly spending money and resources on...

    But what would I know... I am only a one dimensional bubble man that thinks the Russians have landed on Mars.

    They just need to build new rockets and the western media will treat them with respect and talk about them positively all the time and be their best buddies...

    Sponsored content

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 23 Empty Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:57 pm