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    Talking bollocks thread #2

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:34 am

    miketheterrible wrote:So, now that we know you have zero idea about Russian economics cause you won't actually provide what I asked (export to GDP) and actual oil and gas revenue to GDP, now share with us your conspiracy of growing discontent?

    Laughing

    It is sad how people lap up MSM excrement with relish. Never give any journalist or pundit the benefit of the doubt.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:48 am

    kvs wrote:Anyone who thinks Russia has a banana republic commodity export dependent GDP is fully detached from reality.    Banana republics
    have the highest import rates on of all economies since they produce basically nothing domestically aside from the export commodity.
    Russia has one of the lowest import rates of all countries on Earth:

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 21 Imports-and-gdp-2014

    For obvious reasons China does not need to import the full spectrum of goods it exports.   China is the world's manufacturing
    center.   The USA has the biggest economy which has been mature and diversified.   It is slowly sliding into poverty due to
    excessive offshoring.   Brazil is by no means a banana republic even though it has a high poverty rate.   Banana republics
    don't have companies like Embraer.  

    The above chart also indicates that smaller economies have a hard time of being self-sufficient even if they are developed.
    And this chart also raises the question about the relative size of Russia's GDP to that of Germany, UK and France.   I do
    not think that is credible to compare Russia's PPP GDP to Germany.   Germany imports almost twice as much as Russia which
    indicates it does not have the critical mass to produce those products itself.   That follows from its much smaller population
    compared to Russia and the USA.  

    In other posts I raised the point that PPP GDP does not properly normalize the GDP since the PPP correction factor is biased
    to consumer goods and services.   Russia has large parts of its industrial sector operating with a PPP factor much higher than
    1.8.   It also has services delivered in modes not seen the west (e.g. by companies to their workers).   So there is a non
    monetized activity that cannot be scaled with PPP.   It would not be unreasonable to estimate Russia's PPP GPD at $6 trillion
    instead of $4 trillion.


    The thing about that graph you posted, its circa 2014, in 2019 Russia probably imports less than Brazil.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:24 pm

    That is likely true. The fact that Russia can import substitute demonstrates that it is an advanced and diversified economy.
    If it was so easy to import-substitute, every banana republic would have become developed and economically independent
    a long time ago.

    Like I said, positive facts about Russia are to be questioned, while bile-filled BS hate projection is to be taken seriously. The
    British and US MSM are rabid in their smear and belittling of Russia. They have no credibility.

    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:42 pm

    Lot of the imports back then were food items.

    Back in 2014 Russia was negotiating with China to import pork meat from there, now it is starting exporting it to China.


    A few years ago there was a documentary on TV, some finnish guy traveling Russia. Quite good. No propaganda BS. He was talking to some business men in Murmansk who made a good statement. He said it is fine for countries like Canada or Australia to get rich exporting raw materials but according to the west and its minions Russia should be ashamed for doing it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:13 am

    Wasn't that long ago lots of european countries went around Africa looking to stir up business deals and were offering a few billion dollars in loans so they could afford european products, but most of these countries already had dealings with China and Russia and they weren't really interested in getting into debt.

    I seem to remember May saying that those African countries should fear Chinese projects like building power stations and improving infrastructure because they are trying to get them into a debt trap they could never pay their way out of... you know... what europe has been doing for the last 300 years.

    It was funny because they interviewed an African guy and he said the Chinese and Russians are much better to deal with because they don't demand law changes to get exclusive rights to resources and also don't demand other law changes to suit their operations in the country like the westerners do.
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    Post  Hole on Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:56 am

    Then all western elites were screaming "this is neo-colonialism"!!! And an african guy answered: "No. We know colonialism. This is different."
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:07 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Some see it as a descendants of Spanish colonialists (backed by the descendants of US colonialists) verses the native Indians conflict.
    Totally, I happen to have first hand experience with this colonial/slavery mindset and it is nothing short of mind blowing. The arrogance and self entitlement, mixed with the hatred and humiliation of being ruled by their former servants they are used to treat as their property makes these people capable of anything. They take their superiority as a divine right and are not going to back down unless utterly defeated. Way too much pride to swallow.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:51 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Some see it as a descendants of Spanish colonialists (backed by the descendants of US colonialists) verses the native Indians conflict.
    Totally, I happen to have first hand experience with this colonial/slavery mindset and it is nothing short of mind blowing. The arrogance and self entitlement, mixed with the hatred and humiliation of being ruled by their former servants they are used to treat as their property makes these people capable of anything. They take their superiority as a divine right and are not going to back down unless utterly defeated. Way too much pride to swallow.

    I don't know what sin the New World aboriginals committed that they have been subjected to genocide and repression by European slavers
    and oppressors. The world is truly a f*cked up place.

    Maybe it is time for Russia and others to start fighting for aboriginal rights in the New World. In the case of Venezuela, there is no way
    that any fair election could have stacked the legislature with elitist maggots. Any Latin American regime dominated by the minority
    Hispano clique is dictatorship by definition (e.g. Bolivia). In this metric Venezuela is has more freedom than any of the US supported regimes.
    Although in the case of Argentina the aboriginal population was exterminated for the most part (c.f. Patagonians).

    Note how Russians are supposed to carry the "guilt" of being the victims of communism decades after 1930s, but in the case of aboriginal
    genocide by Americans, well, "that's in the past". FOAD.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:29 am

    The Russian Cossacks & Army/Navy suppressed Siberian & Alaskan natives too, with much brutality:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Indigenous_population_loss
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:32 am

    That's not what the natives out here say, which had experience with Russians.

    according to Western historian Stephen Shenfield.


    Oh, now it makes sense.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:36 am

    miketheterrible wrote:That's not what the natives out here say, which had experience with Russians.
    Where at?
    The Russians provided slaves & were paying tribute to the Mongols/Tartars for 300+ years, so it's no surprise that after they defeated the Siberian Khaganate & moved East, the yasak was levied on the conquered, which was the trend of the times. They used the natives as slaves on their own land, instead of shipping & selling them abroad.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:37 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The Russian Cossacks & Army/Navy suppressed Siberian & Alaskan natives too, with much brutality:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Indigenous_population_loss

    Yeah, sure. I guess that is why Russia has no aboriginal reservation camps like Canada and the US and has ethnic
    republics like Sakha instead. Please explain that with your BS equivalence theory. In Argentina, the Patagonian
    people were completely exterminated. I dare you to give an similar example in Russia.

    I have noticed this revisionist BS elsewhere. David Suzuki the Canadian environmentalist hosted a program where
    he claimed the ethnic minorities in Russia's north such as Laplanders were "repressed". That is thick and rich coming from a
    f*cking Canadian. Canada tried to actively exterminate aboriginal language and culture via residential schools
    where young aboriginals were beaten for talking in their native language. On top of that there was rampant sexual
    and physical abuse. Russia never once had anything like residential schools. There was never any policy of
    assimilation no matter how revisionist western blood libelers try to claim that there was. Russia was always
    a multi-ethnic state.

    Then we have the cherry on top of Suzuki's turd cake. In Canada there were famines among the Inuit during the 1940s
    and 1950s. Read Farley Mowat's books. Mowat has been demonized by revisionists who want the world to forget these events
    and launder Canada's dirty history. Even during the 1930s there were no famines among Russia's Inuit and aboriginals.
    In fact, forced collectivization famines affected ethnic Russians in the Donbass, Volga and Kazakhstan. The western
    Ukrainian Holodomor hoaxers were under Polish rule during the 1930s and never lived through any famines.

    Looks like Tsavo Lion is a NATO propaganda drone. Take your fake history and spread among your "enlightened" tribe.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:22 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:The Russian Cossacks & Army/Navy suppressed Siberian & Alaskan natives too, with much brutality:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Indigenous_population_loss

    Yeah, sure.  I guess that is why Russia has no aboriginal reservation camps like Canada and the US and has ethnic
    republics like Sakha instead. Please explain that with your BS equivalence theory.   In Argentina, the Patagonian
    people were completely exterminated.  I dare you to give an similar example in Russia.

    I have noticed this revisionist BS elsewhere.  David Suzuki the Canadian environmentalist hosted a program where
    he claimed the ethnic minorities in Russia's north such as Laplanders were "repressed".   That is thick and rich coming from a
    f*cking Canadian.  Canada tried to actively exterminate aboriginal language and culture via residential schools
    where young aboriginals were beaten for talking in their native language.  On top of that there was rampant sexual
    and physical abuse.   Russia never once had anything like residential schools.  There was never any policy of
    assimilation no matter how revisionist western blood libelers try to claim that there was.  Russia was always
    a multi-ethnic state.      

    Then we have the cherry on top of Suzuki's turd cake.  In Canada there were famines among the Inuit during the 1940s
    and 1950s.  Read Farley Mowat's books.  Mowat has been demonized by revisionists who want the world to forget these events
    and launder Canada's dirty history.  Even during the 1930s there were no famines among Russia's Inuit and aboriginals.
    In fact, forced collectivization famines affected ethnic Russians in the Donbass, Volga and Kazakhstan.  The western
    Ukrainian Holodomor hoaxers were under Polish rule during the 1930s and never lived through any famines.  

    Looks like Tsavo Lion is a NATO propaganda drone.  Take your fake history and spread among your "enlightened" tribe.

    And this is something that Tsavos Moron doesn't seem to understand.

    Natives do not have any issue at all in Russia.  On contrary, they work in collaboration with Russians quite well and are regarded quite highly in society.  But he wouldn't know that cause he is getting his info from western sources on wikipedia.  But that comes as no surprise, the guy comes off as a complete retard.

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:That's not what the natives out here say, which had experience with Russians.
    Where at?

    Canadian natives have stories of the "white skinned, blue eyed "Natives"" out here because of their dealings with Russians who came to Alaska.  They were rather highly regarded and natives out in Canada have more respect for us ethnic eastern Europeans than British do.  If you have not caught it by now, I am in Canada.

    It comes as no surprise you rely upon western based education sources.  When it comes as no surprise that the British government has been found out for their Initiative whatever its called where they are funding organizations for anti Russian mentality.  Even wikipedia where they call Guiedo the current president of Venezuela.

    Might I suggest you just quit and delete your account?

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:02 pm

    I'm not pro-NATO, read my posts on other threads. However, to be objective, I get info. from different sources. There's no such thing as benevolent empire, & Russia isn't exception.
    Some peoples were exterminated, by intention or not, while others survived. Those who did were incorporated & many of them lost much of their original culture:
    https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/russia-1900-to-1939/russification/

    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/151025

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP12.HTM

    The absence of US or Canada style reservations isn't necessarily a good thing. Some ethnic groups may have autonomic status but they r not that well protected from the dominant culture, ecenomy & political/judicial system. I met & spoke to 1 Udege man who told me in 1986 that they wear nylon jackets in winter in their homeland on the way to work.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udege_people

    https://lib.ohchr.org/HRBodies/UPR/Documents/Session4/RU/RAIPON_IWGIA_RUS_UPR_S4_2009anx_Indigenous_Peoples_Russia_RAIPON_INFOE_2008.pdf


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:10 pm

    The minorities in Russia still live where there ancestors lived hundreds/thousands of years ago and are allowed to live the way they want. They are also supported by the state.

    There were battles in Siberia and central asia as both sides hadn´t figured out how to live together.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:54 pm

    ..are allowed to live the way they want.
    Read the links I posted.
    The best lands were taken over by the Russian & Ukrainian settlers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic#Russian_conquest

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buryatia#History

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amur_Oblast#17th_century-1850s

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magadan_Oblast#History

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chukotka_Autonomous_Okrug#Russian_exploration_and_conquest

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamchatka_Oblast

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koryak_Okrug

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabarovsk_Krai

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorsky_Krai#History

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainu_in_Russia
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:04 pm

    Civilization is based on the organized use of violence to control and integrate each timer bigger territories and populations, there is no way around this we like it or not. That being said, there are many ways of doing this. Anglo-Saxon cultures that never mixed with the "inferior races" and simply annihilated natives without other interest than replacing them have essentially nothing to say about other civilizations that mixed and at least didn't go on an all-out on extermination quest of the original populations, but they are interestingly the ones making more noise about this issue...with no problems with the natives to address at home themselves since they conveniently eliminated them already. Do what I say but not what I do
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    Post  kvs on Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:46 pm

    Wikipedia is not an objective source. It is edited 24/7 by interested parties and you can see revisionism in real time. No narrative
    that goes against the NATO agenda will ever be found on Wikipedia.

    So, TS, either cite the original sources or GTFO.

    I also want to know from which paradise does this clown originate that he pretends his country has no history of minority abuse
    in the past.

    I will repeat: Russia never ethnically cleansed aboriginals from their lands and onto reservation camps. Don't invoke Chechens or
    Crimean Tatars as "proof" of the opposite. During WWII they allied themselves with the Nazis who were in the process of carrying
    out genocide against Russians. So Stalin, the ethnic Georgian, decide to deport them away from the front lines. As anyone
    with a clue knows both the Crimean Tatars and Chechens have come back home. Their experience was tragic, but not as tragic
    as that of New World aboriginals.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:14 am

    Actually deportations spared both Volga Germans and Crimean Tatars a lot of casualties. Without deportations a lot of them would have ended conscriptedin the Red Arny or collaborating with the Germans. The death toll would have been much higher.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:33 am

    So, TS, either cite the original sources or GTFO.
    I also want to know from which paradise does this clown originate that he pretends his country has no history of minority abuse
    in the past.
    If u don't like WP in English, find the corresponding pages in Russian & then google translate them. At the bottom, sources r listed- check them for any discrepancies with the text. If some troll incorrectly edited it, others will correct it. Besides, NATO isn't an omnipresent entity or reference point in the history of Russia/USSR; it appeared after 1945.
    Where did I state that my country "has no history of minority abuse
    in the past"?
    Nenets were also abused: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nenets_people#History_and_way_of_life
    Without deportations a lot of them would have ended conscripted in the Red Army..
    Those eligible for conscription were all conscripted, incl. ethnic Germans & Crimean Tartars, many of whom were decorated, some became Heroes of the SU.
    ..an additional 316,600 Soviet Germans served as labour conscripts during World War II. Soviet Germans were not accepted in the regular armed forces but were employed instead as conscript labour. The labour army members were arranged into worker battalions that followed camp-like regulations and received Gulag rations.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)#Soviet_Union_and_annexed_territories

    The Assyrians, Iranians, Koreans, Balkars & Greeks were also exiled:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union#Iranians_and_Assyrians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Koreans_in_the_Soviet_Union
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kabardino-Balkaria#Russian_and_Soviet_rule

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_Russia_and_the_Soviet_Union#Soviet_Union
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Operation_of_the_NKVD

    The list is long:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:50 am

    Time for GarryB or George1 to clean this thread up! Take all these unnecessary posts and stick em' in the harry bollocks thread!
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:12 am

    Sorry Tsavo... but please don't post anything from the UK regarding minority rights:

    https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/russia-1900-to-1939/russification/

    This is just bullshit.

    The British invented concentration camps... and when it comes to mistreating minorities you would be pretty hard pressed to find worse offenders than the major colonial powers of the west.

    Just watch the first episode of the Beverly Hillbillies... it was humour, but it was also biting satire that most Americans didn't understand.

    (For those not familiar it is a TV show about backwater hillbillies finding oil and becoming rich and moving to beverly hills... lots of humour about simple folk and rich folk and their differences and their judgements. When the first arrive a local rich woman wants to talk to the head of the family to find out which boat their family came to america on... it is explained to him that the earlier the boat the higher his families standing in society (rich society that is) will be. He makes the obvious comment that that means the Indians must be at the top... to which the shocked woman says... no no... not at all... you see rules are different for rich white people and darkies... )

    Of course many parts of the programme are intended to make these simple folk appear foolish, but just as often it shows how fooling rich people are too.

    Time for GarryB or George1 to clean this thread up! Take all these unnecessary posts and stick em' in the harry bollocks thread!

    Will do.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:01 pm

    Ah, the UK.

    The UK implemented a policy similar to the residential schools in Canada aimed at wiping out the Welsh identity. We had the same
    beating of children for speaking in Welsh, etc. Russia never had such grotesque policies. Anyone from the UK trying to get on some moral
    high horse vis a vis Russia is full of shit. The Russian empire never baited ethnic groups each other as the UK did in Canada in the case
    of the Mohawks and the Hurons. As a result the Hurons were exterminated. That genocide the is the fault of the UK. In Sri Lanka
    the UK used the Tamils as a proxy against Hindus with the ensuing century of ethnic strife.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:39 pm

    The British invented concentration camps... and when it comes to mistreating minorities you would be pretty hard pressed to find worse offenders than the major colonial powers of the west.
    That doesn't mean that everything they say about this particular issue isn't true or partially true.

    As a result the Hurons were exterminated.
    Not all of them!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyandot_people#History

    J.F. Cooper wrote his "The Last of the Mohicans" novel, but their descendants still live in the USA:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahican#Representation_in_media
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohegan

    Other tribes weren't as lucky:
    http://top-10-list.org/2011/11/04/top-10-native-tribes-who-faced-extinction/

    The Brits had a policy of apartheid that originated with Germanic Anglo-Saxons, but the Mongols, Chinese, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Romans/Italians & Russians needed as many of the natives alive as possible so they could be exploited, incorporated & assimilated to make their empires stronger.
    By the time of the Ivan IV (Terrible), & even more so the Peter I, the Russians already had strong admixture of Tartar (who themselves had taken Ks of Slavic captives) blood in their veins.
    As they expanded East, rapes & intermarriages were common, producing new half breeds.
    Western/Central Europeans incl. French POVs, & Baltic & other Germans were also assimilated- Mother Russia had room for them all. Catherine II was German herself.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:52 am

    That doesn't mean that everything they say about this particular issue isn't true or partially true.

    The purpose of the concentration camps was to "convert" the Boer women and children... they were brutal, and had the sole purpose of turning the enemy into friendlies or they die...

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