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    Talking bollocks thread #2

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:04 pm

    T-72 was NOT derived from the T-64... It only has a similar outer appearance, and inside its a totally different animal.
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:05 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:T-72 was NOT derived from the T-64...  It only has a similar outer appearance, and inside its a totally different animal.

    What I meant is that its design was heavily based on the T-64.

    The only real difforences are the engine and autoloader although the two tanks do have difforent armor composition aswell.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:21 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Actually who aproved the T-90 for service? They should be court martialled for it!

    The T-90 is an insult to Russian tank industry. The T-90 is a lazy and half harted modernization of the T-72 itself derived from the T-64.

    From what is known, it was either the T-90 or the Black eagle concept, at the end of the day economic realities won the day.
    Although i really wished they had adopted a Black Eagle like turret back then.

    Not to say that the T-64 and T-72 were bad tanks, qute the opposite infact in the 1970s these tanks were completely unrivalled.

    The T-72 and T-80 should have been the rear line tanks of the 80s while newer more advanced MBTs designed around the most advanced technologies of the period and in turn upgraded versions of these tanks would now be serving as second wave tanks in the Russian army while the T-72s would be where they belong in museums and on monument pedistals

    I am not a fan of the T-80, it's auto-loader design looks down right suicidal, i am honestly surprised it's getting upgraded.
    The T-72 on the other hand is still a good all rounder, especially with the B4 upgrade.

    Are you talking about the Black Eagle, because that was the only other modern design at the time.

    Although what can I expect Russia is only the most sensible country on this planet and even they let idiots retardichov the gullible and then as if the apocaliptic conditions he created were not bad enough his sucsessor had the "brilliant" idea of embracing capitalism in the full... crime corruption all of it not to mention all of that ДЕРМОКРАТ garbage they adopted....

    But the I should really stop expecting humans to act logically and just agknowlage that earth is galactic capital of bullshit and stupidity.

    As we see today, Europe importing their own extinction and embracing it as tight as a mother and her child in JonesTown, your belief that we are a capitol of BS and stupidity is on point.
    I call it the Invader Zim conclusion.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:52 am

    Actually who aproved the T-90 for service? They should be court martialled for it!

    Perhaps if you knew anything about what you were talking about you might not say such things... the alternative to the T-90 would be the T-80... so what you are saying is that the Russian Army would be better off with the T-80 as its primary MBT design? Really? A Ukrainian tank? Really?

    Not to say that the T-64 and T-72 were bad tanks, qute the opposite infact in the 1970s these tanks were completely unrivalled.

    The T-64 had a lot of problems... most of which were sorted out in the T-80. But then they are having the same problems now in their navy... they could make lots of simple vehicles and mass produce them in enormous numbers but they wont be amazing, but better than the alternative... the T-72 had reasonable armour and a good gun and was much better than the T-54/55 and T-62s and T-34s that they replaced in service and reserve. The T-64 and then the T-80 were rather better, but also rather more expensive and harder to make.

    The T-90 is an insult to Russian tank industry. The T-90 is a lazy and half harted modernization of the T-72 itself derived from the T-64.

    Yeah... in the sense that the F-15C is a lazy upgrade of the MiG-25... the T-72 is not related to the T-64... all the components except the gun are different and not actually compatible. That is why the T-64 is out of service and the T-72 remains in reserve and is getting upgrades.

    The differences between the T-72 and the T-90 are similar to the differences between an F-16A and an F-16C/D block 60... all the electronics are different all the sensors are different and the gun and ammo is different too.

    But the I should really stop expecting humans to act logically and just agknowlage that earth is galactic capital of bullshit and stupidity.

    Just go back to your home planet and brood... and keep away from Kryptonite..

    What I meant is that its design was heavily based on the T-64.

    The only real difforences are the engine and autoloader although the two tanks do have difforent armor composition aswell.

    Russian companies have a tradition of dealing with different suppliers/contractors... so for instance the engine in a MiG-29 is made by Klimov, while a Sukhoi is often a Saturn product... of course sometimes there are exceptions, but generally each feeds the other with products.

    The company that made the T-64 and T-80 was not the same as the company that made the T-72 and T-90... why do you think they would have anything in common except calibre of the gun?

    From what is known, it was either the T-90 or the Black eagle concept, at the end of the day economic realities won the day.
    Although i really wished they had adopted a Black Eagle like turret back then.

    The main problem with the Black Eagle is that it was based on a T-80 tank chassis.

    The Burlak upgrade of the T-72 was also considered and rejected.

    The T-90 is better armed than the T-80 and is better armoured and is just a better tank.

    During the 1980s and 1990s Russia did not need a better tank than the T-72 or T-90... and with new hypersonic weapons coming on line the need for a heavy tank is becoming less and less... right now they have a two stage missile called Hermes they are finalising the design for... imagine they replace the terminal phase part of the missile with a 2m long DU core that weighs about 15kgs and they wrap around that core a scramjet engine and some fuel and a nose mounted guidance system and some steering fins... total weight would not be that much more than the current model missile which has a 30kg HE warhead... HE warheads have low density so they take up a lot of space.. so a 2m long rod of DU can be very compact for its size so there is plenty of space for fuel and a scramjet motor and terminal guidance sensors..

    The main solid rocket booster accelerates the current model to about 1.3km/s so starting at that speed the terminal stage could be rapidly accelerated to mach 10 or more... work it out... a 15kg DU penetrator 2m long moving at 3.2km/s... what sort of tank will NATO need to stop that from 50km range?

    Without the scramjet terminal stage the Hermes has a range of 20km... 50-100km should be easy and covered in a few seconds too.

    How heavy do you want your armour to be?

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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:16 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Actually who aproved the T-90 for service? They should be court martialled for it!

    Perhaps if you knew anything about what you were talking about you might not say such things... the alternative to the T-90 would be the T-80... so what you are saying is that the Russian Army would be better off with the T-80 as its primary MBT design?  Really? A Ukrainian tank? Really?


    Oh yea I forgot that both the Omsk facility that built it and the Kirov plant where it was designed were in ukropia....

    I always though that St Petersburg/Lenningrad was in Russia for some reason musty have been wrong.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:42 pm

    No, you are an idiot... the T-80 hull was made in Leningrad, but the turret was made in the Ukraine.

    Only the gas turbine powered versions were made in Russia, the more efficient diesel models were made in the ukraine...
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:No, you are an idiot... the T-80 hull was made in Leningrad, but the turret was made in the Ukraine.

    Only the gas turbine powered versions were made in Russia, the more efficient diesel models were made in the ukraine...

    The T-80 was not made in Leningrad it was designed there at the Kirov plant to be specific and it was made in Omsk.

    Its lead designer was Nikolay Popov who was Russian

    And while the T-64 was designed in Kharkov well would you care to name the ukies who were on the design team?

    No? Well lets be realistic Kharkov was a Russian facility it was built by, run by and staffed by Russians and would still be to this day if someone did't get the stupid idea to treat a Russian province known for treachery and greed as if it was its own SSR.

    Bofore all the bullshit of the 90s Kharkov was one of the best tank design facilities in the world but after the Russians moved out and stopped suplying parts it became a joke.

    Just look at Kharkov bofore and after  retardichov... In the 80s they were working on the advanced Object 277 MBT now they just build one off "prototypes" in order to pretend that they don't rely on Russian components and designers.

    Saying the T-64 is ukropian would be like saying that the T-90S is Indian and saying that the T-80 is ukropian is utter madness.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:40 pm


    Hate to be Responsible Rhonda here but you guys went off topic long ago

    Also now that BMPT is officially in service could mods rename this tread to just "BMPT"?
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    GarryB

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    temporary talking bollock thread

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:55 am

    The T-80 and T-64 are Soviet tanks that could not be mass produced in Russia now if you wanted to... they are dead tanks that are of no interest to the Russian Army for the future.

    The ones they have in service will be upgraded with T-90 parts where possible and discarded when they are no longer useful... the T-90 is a much better tank... it is much safer because its autoloader protects the ammo from hot fragments and sparks in case of a turret penetration... the T-80 and T-64 autoloader does not.

    Hense the T-80 is not better than a T-90 in any way. It is not worse than nothing so it remains in service with T-90 components being added and engine improvements.

    No? Well lets be realistic Kharkov was a Russian facility it was built by, run by and staffed by Russians and would still be to this day if someone did't get the stupid idea to treat a Russian province known for treachery and greed as if it was its own SSR.

    It was Soviet. It is currently Ukrainian. Get over it.

    Also now that BMPT is officially in service could mods rename this tread to just "BMPT"?

    Not yet... they have not ordered thousands... there are still questions about its future in the Russian military.
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:16 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Sorry Vann, stopped actually reading your posts quite some time ago... if you don't understand why look up the story of the boy who cried wolf...


    Fires happen... there is nothing at all you can do to prevent that... there are plenty of things you can do to minimise the risk and reduce the cost of those fires but fires happen and calling it terrorism doesn't change anything... you sound like a western media outlet trying to drum up interest in a story where there is no actual story...


    another Fire...



    This is not normal.. this looks like an act of terrorism... possibly by Russia enemies..


    I already wrote a month ago that it looks to me like this deadly mall fire was a cleverly disguised terrorist attack.

    They might have resorted to such means in order to avoid retribution against their own populations, like the Chechens living outside of Chechnya.

    You are one of the best posters on this forum.

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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:37 am

    GarryB wrote:
    It was Soviet. It is currently Ukrainian. Get over it.

    Last I heard it was abandoned lol those ukropi now have to build tanks in their own garages because they can't gaurantee the loyalty of their workers.

    Anyway I said is that it relied on Russian personal to make all of its more advanced projects.

    So bottom line is that Russians designed the T-34 T-54 T-44 and T-64 while the ukrops have only managed to make a handful of cheap T-90A knockoffs and some poor grade prototypes in order to pretend that they have a working MIC.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:46 am

    Last I heard it was abandoned lol those ukropi now have to build tanks in their own garages because they can't gaurantee the loyalty of their workers.

    The problem is that it is the average Ukrainian that will suffer because of this... the high up ones will escape "oppression" and retribution from their own people to the west when their people wake up and realise that while Russia is not perfect they were more of a friend than the US and the west could ever be... but you get that sort of mentality... look at Poland just before WWII... the Soviets offered defence pacts and Poland did not trust the evil Soviets... they preferred to rely on the civilised Germans... so they got carved up by the Germans they thought they could rely on and the Soviets they refused to deal with... but it is the Soviets they blame the most. They believe the kool aid propaganda about Europe being civilised... some Ukrainians still do... what they have not worked out is that being friends with Russia and they would at least treat you as equals... friendship with the west means they might let you clean their toilets or pick fruit in their orchards... they are not looking for friends... they want some people to do the menial jobs that black people wont do now... plus they want to isolate Russia because it does not bend to their will.

    In the 1990s when Russia was in chaos you never heard Russia being mentioned in the west... except how bad things are there.

    Now Russians are behind everything... elections in the US, UK, Germany, Italy... Brexit, Catalonia, poisonings, global warming... cyber attacks...

    Anyway I said is that it relied on Russian personal to make all of its more advanced projects.

    The Boeing 787 is not a Russian design either...

    So bottom line is that Russians designed the T-34 T-54 T-44 and T-64 while the ukrops have only managed to make a handful of cheap T-90A knockoffs and some poor grade prototypes in order to pretend that they have a working MIC.

    I am not arguing that the Ukraine is in the shit... it dug the hole and lined the assholes up to fill it hip deep for themselves to sit in, but if you take the nationality of people to determine what country made what the US would not have made anything.... except Tee pees.

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    US plans to attack Russia during solar storms

    Post  RussianDefense on Wed May 02, 2018 12:53 am

    A word of warning to Russian military planners.

    Geomagnetic, solar storms and other space weather events that affect radar and EWS ( Early Warning Systems) operational fidelity are highly likely to be exploited to launch either a global prompt or nuclear strike against Russia in my opinion, since the thought is that Russia wouldn't be able to confirm such an attack due to EWS degradation. Something to look out for.


    Last edited by RussianDefense on Wed May 02, 2018 7:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    George1

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  George1 on Wed May 02, 2018 1:55 am

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    kvs

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  kvs on Wed May 02, 2018 3:06 am

    RussianDefense wrote:A word of warning to Russian military planners.

    Geomagnetic and other space weather events that affect radar and EWS ( Early Warning Systems) operation are highly likely to be used to launch either a global prompt or nuclear strike against Russia since the thought is that Russia wouldn't be able to confirm such an attack due to EWS degradation.

    Thus it is suggested that PERIMETER together with endo-atmospheric sensors be placed on hair trigger with a  faraday-shielded fault-interrupt LOW (Launch of warning) control system. EW Attacks on these systems are highly likely....

    Faraday caging and lead shielding should also be improved on all warheads, since EMP technology is improving..

    It affects Americans as well. So there is no advantage. Also, over the horizon phase array radars keep on working during geomagnetic storms. The ionosphere never gets neutralized. All that happens is that there is a transient redistribution of the vertical structure during intense solar proton events.

    You do know that warheads are already perfectly shielded from electric fields since they have contiguous metal shells. You also must know that no Faraday cage works
    against a magnetic field.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 02, 2018 6:39 am

    Space weather?

    Are you suggesting that Russia is vulnerable to effects that don't effect the west?

    I would say it is the other way around actually... the US is vastly more dependent on tenuous systems than Russia is... Russia isn't complaining about its communications in Syria getting jammed are they?

    Nothing to do with Russias ability to strike the US and the west needs further vigilance or protection... it is fine.

    EW attacks on Russian systems have always been anticipated and expected...

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 02, 2018 6:59 pm


    Can this be moved to Talking Bollocks tread?

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  RussianDefense on Wed May 02, 2018 7:07 pm

    [quote="kvs"]
    RussianDefense wrote:A word of warning to Russian military planners.

    You do know that warheads are already perfectly shielded from electric fields since they have contiguous metal shells.  You also must know that no Faraday cage works
    against a magnetic field.
       

    I am well aware of that lol Cool
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    Isos

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Isos on Wed May 02, 2018 7:10 pm

    Are you suggesting that Russia is vulnerable to effects that don't effect the west?

    Officials in France said Tchernobyl radioactif clouds stoped at the german border ... and they believed that ...

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  RussianDefense on Wed May 02, 2018 7:11 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Can this be moved to Talking Bollocks tread?

    I believe this is a real issue. Nuclear blackout is another concern.. Higher Frequencies mitigate the effect of nuclear blackout but the ionization disk that is created from this phenomenon (assuming a mid range yield) still affect HF bands pretty substantially for a an sustained period of time ...

    Woudn't a high-yield small scale surface burst, due to the effects of blackout essentially render localized ABM systems useless for a brief period??, Hence why I talk about lead shielding. I havn't found much scientific literature on this subject.. How well are modern ABM radars adapted to mitigate this effect?

    Quote from wiki:
    "
    This means that exoatmospheric explosions are very effective against long-range early warning radars like PAR or the Soviet Dnestr. A single 1 Mt warhead detonated at 250 km altitude would be about 600 kilometres (400 mi) downrange given typical trajectories, and might be expected to create an ionization disk 300 kilometres (200 mi) across. As seen from the radar, this would be an angle of 300 km/600 km2 = 0.3 sr, enough to hide any warheads approaching along similar paths. This would allow, for instance, a single warhead from a particular missile field to hide all the following ones from the same field. Although this would not affect the operation of the interceptors directly, being outside the range of even the very long-range Spartan, such operations could seriously upset raid direction and overall battle planning. Moreover, because the explosion takes place outside the range of the interceptors, there is no simple means of stopping it
    "
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 02, 2018 7:51 pm

    RussianDefense wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Can this be moved to Talking Bollocks tread?

    I believe this is a real issue. Nuclear blackout is another concern.. Higher Frequencies mitigate the effect of nuclear blackout but the ionization disk that is created from this phenomenon (assuming a mid range yield) still affect HF bands pretty substantially for a an sustained period of time ...

    Woudn't a high-yield small scale surface burst, due to the effects of blackout essentially render localized ABM systems useless for a brief period??, Hence why I talk about lead shielding. I havn't found much scientific literature on this subject.. How well are modern ABM radars adapted to mitigate this effect?

    Quote from wiki:
    "
    This means that exoatmospheric explosions are very effective against long-range early warning radars like PAR or the Soviet Dnestr. A single 1 Mt warhead detonated at 250 km altitude would be about 600 kilometres (400 mi) downrange given typical trajectories, and might be expected to create an ionization disk 300 kilometres (200 mi) across. As seen from the radar, this would be an angle of 300 km/600 km2 = 0.3 sr, enough to hide any warheads approaching along similar paths. This would allow, for instance, a single warhead from a particular missile field to hide all the following ones from the same field. Although this would not affect the operation of the interceptors directly, being outside the range of even the very long-range Spartan, such operations could seriously upset raid direction and overall battle planning. Moreover, because the explosion takes place outside the range of the interceptors, there is no simple means of stopping it
    "

    Like I said, can this be moved to Talking Bollocks tread?

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  RussianDefense on Wed May 02, 2018 7:53 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    RussianDefense wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Can this be moved to Talking Bollocks tread?

    I believe this is a real issue. Nuclear blackout is another concern.. Higher Frequencies mitigate the effect of nuclear blackout but the ionization disk that is created from this phenomenon (assuming a mid range yield) still affect HF bands pretty substantially for a an sustained period of time ...

    Woudn't a high-yield small scale surface burst, due to the effects of blackout essentially render localized ABM systems useless for a brief period??, Hence why I talk about lead shielding. I havn't found much scientific literature on this subject.. How well are modern ABM radars adapted to mitigate this effect?

    Quote from wiki:
    "
    This means that exoatmospheric explosions are very effective against long-range early warning radars like PAR or the Soviet Dnestr. A single 1 Mt warhead detonated at 250 km altitude would be about 600 kilometres (400 mi) downrange given typical trajectories, and might be expected to create an ionization disk 300 kilometres (200 mi) across. As seen from the radar, this would be an angle of 300 km/600 km2 = 0.3 sr, enough to hide any warheads approaching along similar paths. This would allow, for instance, a single warhead from a particular missile field to hide all the following ones from the same field. Although this would not affect the operation of the interceptors directly, being outside the range of even the very long-range Spartan, such operations could seriously upset raid direction and overall battle planning. Moreover, because the explosion takes place outside the range of the interceptors, there is no simple means of stopping it
    "

    Like I said, can this be moved to Talking Bollocks tread?


    Cool
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    Hole

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  Hole on Wed May 02, 2018 10:06 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Are you suggesting that Russia is vulnerable to effects that don't effect the west?

    Officials in France said Tchernobyl radioactif clouds stoped at the german border ... and they believed that ...

    The radioactive cloud was disgusted by the smell of the cheese.
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    Aristide

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    Western Europe is the center of humanity

    Post  Aristide on Fri May 04, 2018 10:38 am

    GarryB wrote:Actually I don't think Russia should not be pushing back, but not via their economy.

    How hard would it be to take the new anti ship mach 10, 2,000km range MiG-31 launched Kinzhal and fit it with a tactical nuclear warhead.

    The cold war is over, but I think the west didn't pay attention... the logistics of the Soviet Army could never have supported an invasion to the English Channel... or as it would be named after the Soviet attack... Stalins back passage...

    They weren't going to invade Europe... they were going to eliminate an enemy threat... and it was going to be fought from eastern europe...

    Obviously with nuclear weapons there would be enormous casualties, but this time on both sides... the UK and US combined in both theatres of the war lost maybe a million soldiers... less than a 10th of what germany or the Soviets each lost in a war that only happened because the british and french and americans wanted to destroy germany after WWI.

    Now they can make it clear to the west... 100% guarantee there will be no invasion of Europe, and there will be no invasion of the US.

    With the new Breeder reactors they should be able to massively build up the numbers of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons... they wont invade the west if there is a problem... they will destroy it.

    Putin has been passing on messages but the media are retards who don't pass the message on so the western public does not know that the unique situation in Kosovo that allowed the west to give them some Serbian land led directly to the Russians giving South Ossetia and Abkhazia full autonomy, which led directly to opening Russian borders to both states... they no longer depended on Georgia for survival and that is the real reason Sackofshit invaded.

    These new hypersonic missiles, nuclear powered cruise missiles, nuclear torpedo drones, uninterceptable ICBM RVs, and laser defence systems were all a response to the US withdrawing from the ABM treaty... but no one mentioned it in the west... just evil aggressive Russia....

    Russia should make some serious demands... in fact if the US wants a new START treaty it needs to pull all its military forces out of western and eastern europe.... Russia did that in the 1990s.. if the US wants peace it can do the same. US nuclear warheads and ABM systems need to be removed from Europe too... otherwise Russia will make lots of ICBMs and tactical nukes to deal with them...

    You have a very big problem in your "ideas".

    We too have demands. You want US troops out of Europe?
    At th moment we have the american nuclear weapons in our strategy. If they get removed, we are forced up upgrade our stockpile from a few hundred to a few thousands.

    Europe at any time must be able to erase Russia from the face of the planet. At the moment, France has enough nuclear weapons to erase at least the european part of russia from the face of the planet. Without the americans we would have to grow upr arsenal to the size, that this is possible to be done by ourself.

    I agree though that Russia would never invade western Europe. Russias military is far too weak for that. And thats why mutual destruction ability is so important.

    Maybe you should pass a message to Putin, before he makes laughable threats towards western europe, he should build up an electrical grid so evry russian has acess to electricity and hot water
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    GarryB

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    Re: Talking bollocks thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 7:52 am


    You have a very big problem in your "ideas".

    You mean you have a big problem with my ideas... and guess what... I would say that means my ideas are good ideas...

    We too have demands. You want US troops out of Europe?

    Why is that unreasonable... the US troops were there to counter soviet troops... soviet troops are gone... so now all US troops are there for is because Europe does not like to spend money on its own defence... so it expects the US to defend them.... how is that fair to the US taxpayer?

    At th moment we have the american nuclear weapons in our strategy. If they get removed, we are forced up upgrade our stockpile from a few hundred to a few thousands.

    Yup, and then Europe will be paying for Europes defence instead of expecting the US to pay for it.

    Europe at any time must be able to erase Russia from the face of the planet. At the moment, France has enough nuclear weapons to erase at least the european part of russia from the face of the planet. Without the americans we would have to grow upr arsenal to the size, that this is possible to be done by ourself.

    But at the moment you are expecting US missiles and bombs to do it for you... if you want to destroy Russia then you can do it with your own weapons.

    I agree though that Russia would never invade western Europe. Russias military is far too weak for that. And thats why mutual destruction ability is so important.

    There of course is the other factor... what would Russia want with Europe... except to be able to eliminate it as a threat... it seems if you save it from a threat you have to pay to defend it from any remaining potential threats for eternity... and for no benefit...

    Maybe you should pass a message to Putin, before he makes laughable threats towards western europe, he should build up an electrical grid so evry russian has acess to electricity and hot water

    Pretty brave for a Frenchman... careful... Putin is my buddy... we go way back... in fact look out your window right now.... Russian agents are putting Polonium on your front door handle... note real Russian agents use Polonium... guaranteed to get results... unlike that shit they made at Porton Down that barely made three people sick...




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      Current date/time is Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:44 am