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    "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:54 pm

    Hole wrote:Someone in Amiland farts and everybody takes it for the truth. Mad

    CIA finds it just before Trump's impeachment?
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:15 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:RF loses n.-capable CM in Barents Sea. US intelligence finds it
    http://www.pravdareport.com/science/tech/24-08-2018/141449-russia_new_missile_lost-0/

    I doubt that they would be testing it there, over water, potentially contaminating all fish, & complicating salvaging it. The Kapustin Yar range, Siberia & the Far East r big enough for closed circle flight testing & recovery of downed CMs.

    A nuclear engine is surprisingly clean.

    It has to work for long time to develop lethal radiation.

    If it fail in the first few minutes of operation then it still human touchable.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:24 pm

    Even after its shielding is destroyed in a crash?
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:18 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Even after its shielding is destroyed in a crash?

    It is not shielded.

    The existence of this missile means that the Russians mastered the radhard electronics.


    Anyway, the fission products generating radiation, and that has to accumulated.

    Means the engine has to work for longer time to be radioactive.

    When the US nuclear rocket engine exploded on the test bench at the end of test series the humans picked up the debris from the reactor core.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:52 pm

    If this story is true about this missile then it would be the first nuclear powered manmade flying artifact in the history.

    Npo one ever made nuclear powered aircraft/missile/rocket that actually had one meter of flight with nuclear power.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:56 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    Npo one ever made nuclear powered aircraft/missile/rocket that actually had one meter of flight with nuclear power.

    heh - I wish it was powerful to power a hypersonic drone
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    LMFS

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  LMFS on Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:20 am

    Article dismissing Burevestnik as trolling but with interesting information about miniature nuclear reactors:

    https://nucleardiner.wordpress.com/2018/08/24/a-russian-nuclear-cruise-missile/
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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:32 pm

    LMFS wrote:Article dismissing Burevestnik as trolling but with interesting information about miniature nuclear reactors:

    https://nucleardiner.wordpress.com/2018/08/24/a-russian-nuclear-cruise-missile/



    Also, from having been a technical writer in the Los Alamos civilian reactor division, I know that far too much was never written up.

    OK so you're THE expert?

    +
    A Tomahawk cruise missile is almost 21 feet long, 21 inches in diameter, and weighs a little over a ton and a half – 3,330 pounds. This is significantly smaller than a nuclear cruise missile would have to be, even with that very slim reactor core.

    oh now is anything is bigger then Tomahawk cannot fly?! os if ti weights 10 tons then what? and size is 3x TOmahawk so?

    Not to mention he doubted it can fly because even with chemical engine it be to heavy. Like you cannot jettison one after start. No thanks for such idiots.


    and his sources are fairly tale writers form Norway lol1 lol1 lol1

    ok enough laughing time to work Smile
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    LMFS

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  LMFS on Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:18 pm

    I am by no means expert in miniature nuclear reactors so every info is welcome, cannot really assess whether Burevestnik is technically feasible and real or a bluff to be honest. But the tone of the article shows the customary US arrogance towards Russia... no surprise the latest Russian military developments caught them with the pants down time after time Laughing
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:47 pm

    well, lets see. We have both images of the missile itself:





    Plus the location too:

    http://militaryrussia.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1211&t=3463&sid=ad7e8e638ee5f9365b07a65c187f2b42&start=100#p118242

    So yeah, the thing flies. It may have failed a few times, but that is purpose of testing a system.
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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:20 pm

    LMFS wrote: But the tone of the article shows the customary US arrogance towards Russia... no surprise the latest Russian military developments caught them with the pants down time after time Laughing


    Grief stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance


    now US journos/bloggers are something between 1 and second stage
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    Hole

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:31 pm

    The last stage is begging. In congress. For 10 or 20 Billion to develop one.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Singular_Transform on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:40 pm

    LMFS wrote:Article dismissing Burevestnik as trolling but with interesting information about miniature nuclear reactors:

    https://nucleardiner.wordpress.com/2018/08/24/a-russian-nuclear-cruise-missile/

    It is not so useful.

    The reactors mentioned there are extremely high power and thrust .

    The reactor on the Burevestnik should be small and low powered.

    However the reactor should contain highly ( 80% or more) enriched uanium, means they have to found every bit of it after crash, or it can be used to make nuclear weapons.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:42 pm

    Could a small reactor produce electricity to power electric turbines?
    Hybrid propulsion airplanes r already being tested & marketed:

    https://www.ft.com/content/bc1f2adc-d43c-11e7-a303-9060cb1e5f44

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/zunum-aeros-hybrid-electric-airplane-aims-to-rejuvenate-regional-travel

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2018/05/22/hybrid-electric-passenger-jet-gets-100-plane-launch-order-from-jetsuite/

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aerospace-hybrid/boeing-backed-hybrid-electric-commuter-plane-to-hit-market-in-2022-idUSKBN1CA16A

    william.boutros

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  william.boutros on Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:47 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:well, lets see.  We have both images of the missile itself:





    Plus the location too:

    http://militaryrussia.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1211&t=3463&sid=ad7e8e638ee5f9365b07a65c187f2b42&start=100#p118242

    So yeah, the thing flies.  It may have failed a few times, but that is purpose of testing a system.
    Exactly! the picture looks unrealistic for a nuclear missile. Perhaps a scaled down version or a conventionally powered land launched long range cruise missile??
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    Hole

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:50 pm

    No. Listen to what President Putin said. The important thing is that russian scientists developed a nucelar powered engine to fit into normal cruise missiles, he even mentioned Tomahawk for comparison.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:28 pm

    Hole wrote:No. Listen to what President Putin said. The important thing is that russian scientists developed a nucelar powered engine to fit into normal cruise missiles, he even mentioned Tomahawk for comparison.

    he said not exactly this. Ot was like:
    One of them is the creation of a small-sized superpower nuclear power plant, which is housed in a cruise missile like our latest air-launched X-101 missile or the American Tomahawk, but at the same time it provides dozens of times - a large range of flight, which is practically unlimited ",

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4998645


    like - nothing about size, like doesnt necessarily mean exact size to me








    BTW check this out,dont go to English version, this is much more interesting. Looks like singular transform was saying similar stuff Smile

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ядерная_энергодвигательная_установка_мегаваттного_класса


    Description

    The NEDU consists of three main devices [75] [76] [77] [40] : a reactor facility with a working body and auxiliary devices (such as a heat exchanger-recuperator and a turbo-generator-compressor), an electric propulsion system, a radiator-radiator. The NEDU is sometimes confused with a nuclear rocket engine , however, the nuclear reactor in the NEDU is used only for generating electricity, which in turn is used to start and power the electric propulsion system (EDR), and also provides power to the on-board systems of the spacecraft [78] [79 ] ] .

    The working medium circulating in the reactor is heated to a temperature of 1500 K and rotates the turbine . The generator generates electricity for electric propulsion , which has a much larger specific impulse than traditional jet engines (in particular, the plasma engine has a specific thrust of 20 times higher compared to chemical engines) [80] [39] [81] . Due to the fact that there is no need to heat the working medium to 3000 degrees, there is no need to conduct complex full-scale tests at the Semipalatinsk test site , as was the case with nuclear engines emitting a radioactive jet [39] .

    The plant's fuel is uranium dioxide or carbonitride , but since the design must be very compact, uranium has a higher enrichment in the isotope 235 than in fuel elements at conventional nuclear power plants, possibly above 20%. This fuel will have to work at very high temperatures (in ordinary nuclear fuel energy temperatures are a thousand degrees lower). Therefore, it was necessary to select materials that can contain negative factors associated with high temperatures, and at the same time allow the fuel to fulfill its main function - to heat the gas coolant, through which electricity will be produced.

    And their shell is a single-crystal alloy of refractory metals based on molybdenum (developed by NPO Luch in Podolsk). [42]

    Feature of the project 2009-2018. consists in the use of a special coolant -the helium-xenon mixture [42] [82] [78] [83] . Cooling is produced by radiation [42] . The heated surface in the vacuum cools, emitting electromagnetic waves in a wide range, including visible light [42] .

    Radiation safety is provided by shadow protection, so the reactor is closed only on one side - with the one where the equipment and the payload are located [42] . Radiation can freely propagate outside the protected area into outer space, which allows reducing the weight of the protective structure [42] [39] .



    +++



    The main executor of the NEDU is the Keldysh Research Center [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] . The main executor of the reactor facility is " NIKIET " [17] [18] [19] , led by general designer Yuri Dragunov [20] .

    Design feature is the use of a special heating medium - helium - Xenon mixture of high temperature gas-cooled fast breeder reactor [21] , uranium higher concentration and temperature in the reactor up to 1500 K, the working bodies and protection system of the reactor plant are made of tubes made of molybdenum alloy TCM-7 [22] [23] [24] The unique structural material of the shell is capable of operating the reactor for more than 100,000 hours [25] [26] [27] [28]; During this time, an ordinary spacecraft can reach the boundary of the solar system. [25] [26] [27] [29] [30] [31] , two RTE reactors for ground tests and RUC for flight tests

    +++


    International cooperation
    American companies engaged in space technology, cooperating with NASA , for many years and could not create a nuclear reactor that works stably in space, although they tried three times [34] . In this connection, in 1988 the United States conducted a ban on the use of nuclear power plants in space through the UN [34] and the work was canceled in 1989. [38] . However, the situation changed when Russian specialists continued the work of Soviet colleagues, US representatives showed interest in the development of the project and participation in it [39] .


    lol1 lol1 lol1


    +++


    and here a cherry on top:
    In 2016, the Design Bureau of the Arsenal named MV Frunze proposed the use of the YEDU on satellites of electronic warfare [201] .




    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:35 pm

    He meant not exactly the same, but close in size to them:
    Length 604 cm (19 ft 10 in) (Kh-65SE)
                    745 cm (24 ft 5 in) (Kh-101)
    Diameter 51.4 cm (20.2 in) (Kh-55-Kh-55SM)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-55

    Length
    Without booster: 18 ft 3 in (5.56 m)
        With booster: 20 ft 6 in (6.25 m)
         Diameter 20.4 in (0.52 m)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)
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    Hole

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Hole on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:17 am

    Question is still is it a "real" nuclear reactor or a nuclear battery, like in some satellites.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:48 am

    Hole wrote:Question is still is it a "real" nuclear reactor or a nuclear battery, like in some satellites.

    and the difference is?!
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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:53 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Hole wrote:Question is still is it a "real" nuclear reactor or a nuclear battery, like in some satellites.

    and the difference is?!

    Nuclear battery would be generating electricity which is not the case here

    It's a reactor
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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:07 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Hole wrote:Question is still is it a "real" nuclear reactor or a nuclear battery, like in some satellites.

    and the difference is?!

    Nuclear battery would be generating electricity which is not the case here

    It's a reactor

    all we know is what was stated: CM with a nuclear power source Smile I got a gut feeling this Roscosmos/Rosatom project for space rocket is connected with Burevestnik.
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    LMFS

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:34 pm

    The article in Wiki speaks about generation of electricity. This would be a nuclear engine. No coolant needed to move a turbine but air to be overheated
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  Singular_Transform on Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:46 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Hole wrote:Question is still is it a "real" nuclear reactor or a nuclear battery, like in some satellites.

    and the difference is?!

    Nuclear battery would be generating electricity which is not the case here

    It's a reactor

    all we know is what was stated: CM with a nuclear power source Smile I got a gut feeling this Roscosmos/Rosatom project for space rocket is connected with Burevestnik.

    Each nuclear bomb has a nuclear battery.

    The nuclear battery has very low watt/kg performance -it has very good kwh/kg performance, but the missile doesn't fly for years.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Burevestnik" Nuclear-powered cruise missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:35 pm

    LMFS wrote:The article in Wiki speaks about generation of electricity. This would be a nuclear engine. No coolant needed to move a turbine but air to be overheated

    you need to ask Singular T. for details Smile Im not sure how you use this energy without too much radiation.

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