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    "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 19, 2018 12:52 am

    flamming_python wrote:As a Tsunami wave generator this weapon makes zero sense as it would lead to many neutral countries being hit too.

    and those countries could be different than those hit bu nuclear winter? Razz Razz Razz



    PapaDragon wrote:

    What concerns me here is minuscule payload on very expensive platform

    how do you know its more expensive then ICBM? it is enough to kill Diego Garcia or Hawaii not to mention any of CSGs... as stand off weapon. Forcing enemy to spend billions on defense.


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 19, 2018 3:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 19, 2018 7:29 am

    The purpose of Poseidon is to have a different way of delivering a nuclear weapon to the US... if they launch it in southern ocean waters that means US sea defences have to be created and built up around all of US territory and US bases in other countries... they are prepared to spend trillions on ballistic missile defence are they prepared to spend a lot more protecting their shores... they want to feel safe... and the purpose of Poseidon and other weapons is that they never feel safe... that is the basis of MAD, which has worked fine for so long but the US is destabilising it with ABM sites around the place...

    BTW operating at more than 1,000m of water means it will be the fastest thing there.... deep diving subs move at between 3 and 7 knts... this will be going at 60-70knts...

    BTW good post Teshub... I would add to that.... many ports are dredged and relatively deep so an enormous volume of water is going to be turned into super heated salt water... that is very radioactive.... the water will absorb a lot of the energy of the explosion so you really could not compare it with an air or even a surface burst.... but depending on which way the wind blows we are talking about terrible fall out potential downwind... and as mentioned you could sail up the Mississippi as well so your options for fallout are increased...

    With a normal port an underwater 2MT explosion would basically vapourise all the sea water and a lot of mud and debris would be superheated... I don't think there would be a huge mushroom cloud.... that is normally created by superheated air rising so superheated salt water would not rise as far or as fast so a low flat cloud of superheated radioactive salt water and mud.... if it blows inland it will not be good for living things...

    So it does have a role. Whether or not it is worth the investment to manufacture and deploy is another question.

    They could make lots of them and in peacetime use some to map the seabed as an UUV... being nuclear powered they could send them all over the place...

    They could even be used to monitor sea currents... once they have detailed maps of sea currents they could use that to use in their mission to destroy food stocks near the US and her allies...

    Hell they could get into Greenpeaces' good books and escort whales... those feckin Japs and Norwegians had better watch what they are harpooning in the south seas... something might turn and bite them back... Smile

    They will only have to make other countries pay double for the f-35, and everyone here know they will pay, and get back those billions lost in the programs you are talking.

    You make it sound like the US is good at business... they are not.... when everyone trades in US dollars it creates an international demand for US dollars... as more and more countries drop the dollar the worse it will be for the US because without being the international currency they are fucked. They will have to work for the money... and they aren't used to working that hard.
    (Ironically the people that work the hardest often do it in 2-3 jobs, but for minimum wage...)

    Trying to hit US with economy is useless. They are too good at that.

    Even if it wasn't useless... the US is using sanctions against Russia to stop it from developing and progressing, so at the very least it should do everything it can to return the favour.

    But at the end of the day this is not a commercial thing.... it is a deterrence thing... the idea is to make war unappealing.... which is no small thing when you are talking about a war economy like America... they thrive on wars.

    The purpose is not to make them poor, but to make war with Russia not an appealing or even sensible option... MAD... mutually assured destruction...

    Only way this makes sense with 2Mt is if rest of the payload is nothing but cobalt that would be used to salt the warhead

    Giant dirty bomb

    Otherwise waste of time and money

    Not a waste of time and money... as I mentioned these could be the basis of very deep diving long range UUVs that could map and explore the sea bed... there is no reason for a UUV to move at 60-70 knots, so heavy payloads could be attached and it would still be useful... it could take samples at different depths continuously for weeks... never getting tired or bored... just set it a grid pattern to operate in at 1km deep or more...hell you could use it for all sorts of things...

    You could use to to look for oil in the water, or scan the bottom with sonar or radar... a nuke propulsion means plenty of electricity available...

    2MT would destroy most of New York City.

    Not an underwater burst... water would absorb a lot of the energy... still would not be nice though...

    And still the best economy in the world. They don't care about debt. Debt is part of their lives.

    Debt has become part of their lives and the only ones who get debt relief are the richest banks that are too big to fail... how about that for irony...

    Poseidon on its own is not the solution but added to other pieces it becomes a web that ensures Russia will damage the US to an unacceptable level if the US wants to start something.

    Sounds like value for money to me.

    Once there will be option to change to say Renminbi world it could be interesting to see how much of this remains...

    When that happens then the US wont have so much money available to it... just like everyone else and will have to make serious cuts in spending.... which is going to be tremendously painful... will the MIC accept not having cash thrown at them... is a coup possible... would it even be likely... the MIC seems to be in bed with the US media, so they have the tools to manipulate the population... they certainly love to get them excited about new cruise missile attacks and invasions....

    The funny thing is Tramp seems to speed up US erosion. His hysterical economical war on the world opens eyes more countries . And Us is perhaps stronger then any of alone state but not groups thereof.

    Indeed Trumps bullyboy tactics might work in the boardroom of his own company, but I don't think even North Korea or Iran are impressed let alone the EU...

    how do you know its more expensive then ICBM? it is enough to kill Diego Garcia or Hawaii not to mention any of CSGs... as stand off weapon. Forcing enemy to spend billions on defense.

    Indeed, ASW systems are bloody expensive.... and having to set them up in the south pacific and south atlantic would be expensive enough but also having to patrol down there too is going to push them past the trillion dollar a year defence budget... of course new US navy access bases down there will become necessary too... I doubt they will consider Africa, so south America and perhaps New Zealand or Australia... they already have a US base at Christchurch airport to support their operations in Antarctica... perhaps they might want to rent some space in the port at Invercargill or Dunedin or Christchurch.... of course we have a no nuke policy so that rules out all their subs and most of their ships from operating here anyway... Aussie?
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    GarryB

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 19, 2018 7:34 am

    Another factor is how many do they have... they might make 20-30, but 10-20 of them might just be used as research... they could use those in war time to simulate a noisy version of Yassen or Borei to draw out enemy subs... you could design the thing to have no air cavities in it and make it super strong so even a direct hit from a torpedo wont even damage it... you could use it as a perimeter system around a carrier group... it could zip ahead at 60-70 knots and use active sonar in choke points and make noises to simulate any type of ship or sub... any mines set to destroy carriers could be set off... enemy subs detected... the worst thing that could happen is you lose the drone... but you will get a warning and with a satellite link and datalink you might get a warning as to what did it... if it is armed with 4 or 5 torpedos scabbed to its side it could have a go at any ship or sub it does detect...

    During peace time, as I said... UUV for maritime research...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon May 21, 2018 1:47 pm


    Rosatom will develop heavy-metal reactors for military usage
    The specialists of OKB Hydropress, which is part of the state corporation Rosatom, are developing reactors with heavy liquid metal coolants for defense purposes, the company's report for 2017 reported.

    As quoted by RIA Novosti's report materials , and they are on the site of the corporate information disclosure center, reactor installations with heavy liquid metal coolant were carried out within the framework of the state defense order. No more details are reported.

    Heavy liquid-metal coolants are lead or an alloy of lead with bismuth. On fast neutrons with lead-bismuth cooling, reactors for nuclear submarines were created. Some of the most famous are nuclear power plants for the most high-speed and maneuverable Soviet nuclear submarines of Project 705 and 705K. Abroad they are known as "Alpha". By the way, these submarines were included in the Guinness Book of Records for their high-speed performance. Moreover, these reactors had the possibility of obtaining large capacities at small plant sizes.

    According to experts, reactor installations with heavy-metal lead-bismuth coolant can be used on Russian unmanned combat underwater vehicles.

    https://rg.ru/2018/05/18/rosatom-razrabotaet-dlia-voennyh-tiazhelometallicheskie-reaktory.html

    SO beyond Poseidon? or Husky a la hushed up version of Lira?






    GarryB wrote:Another factor is how many do they have... they might make 20-30, but 10-20 of them might just be used as research...

    During peace time, as I said... UUV for maritime research...


    The first doesn't exclude the other option to me Smile



    if it is armed with 4 or 5 torpedos scabbed to its side it could have a go at any ship or sub it does detect...

    It doesn't have to carry torpedoes on its side - there isa weapon bay . BTW In SAP 2027 there were mentioned "bottom based " ballistic missiles right?
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    kvs

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  kvs on Tue May 22, 2018 4:46 am

    Re: bitching about 2 Mtons above

    Why would the Russian military disclose the yield of the warhead for this device? So that America can more easily take counter-measures?
    People here are like Pavolv's dogs drooling on queue over every piece of media shite extruded on Russian military subjects.

    It is patently obvious that this deep submersible can carry a 50+ Mton warhead since it can have a payload of at least 20 tons.
    This submersible makes much more sense than yet another ICBM. The ancient Tsar Bomba had a weight of 27 tons. Its modern
    variant would likely be half the weight.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:01 am

    Video on Russian MoD twitter purporting to show the Poseidon nuclear mega-torpedo! Very Happy  Propulsion unit is blurred out, but still nice vid!

    https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1019847603037659137


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    George1

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:46 pm

    Russia launches trials of Poseidon underwater drone that can carry nuclear warheads

    The Poseidon oceanic multipurpose system is a principally new type of seaborne underwater weapons based on the use of drones

    MOSCOW, July 19. /TASS/. Russia’s Defense Ministry has launched the trials of Poseidon underwater drones at its testing ranges, the ministry’s press office reported on Thursday.

    "Trials have been organized at the ranges of the Defense Ministry of Russia to confirm the dynamic characteristics of the apparatus [Poseidon] during launches in a real environment and to check the parameters of the apparatus’s movement along the route in autonomous mode," the Defense Ministry said.

    Read also
    Russia to develop helicopter capable of controlling a swarm of drones

    As of today, comprehensive experimental work on the underwater drone is coming to an end and industrial enterprises have carried out measures for checking the joint operation and the reliability of all the drone’s systems and assemblies, the ministry’s press office said.

    "Trials have been organized at the ranges of the Defense Ministry of Russia to confirm the dynamic characteristics of the apparatus during launches in a real environment and to check the parameters of the apparatus’s movement along the route in autonomous mode. All the measures for creating the Poseidon system are being carried out in compliance with the work schedule," Russia’s Defense Ministry said.

    The development of new strategic weapon systems "aims to increase Russia’s defense capability and prevent any aggression against our country and its allies," the Defense Ministry stressed.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1013969
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:51 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Video on Russian MoD twitter purporting to show the Poseidon nuclear mega-torpedo! Very Happy  Propulsion unit is blurred out, but still nice vid!

    https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1019847603037659137

    Looks like the MoD messed up, nowadays such blurs could easily be undone.
    They should have blacked it out instead.
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    Hole

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Hole on Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:44 pm

    This is a f...ing large "torpedo".
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  kvs on Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:29 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:Video on Russian MoD twitter purporting to show the Poseidon nuclear mega-torpedo! Very Happy  Propulsion unit is blurred out, but still nice vid!

    https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1019847603037659137

    Looks like the MoD messed up, nowadays such blurs could easily be undone.
    They should have blacked it out instead.

    Only if was done with a package like Adobe Photoshop which actually saves enough information or uses an invertible algorithm
    allowing one to rebuild the original.   Many do not know this detail and get caught.   I doubt the Russian video was manipulated
    with Photoshop or similar.    There is no way to extract high resolution data from coarsened data.   Sub-pixel (like sub-grid scale
    in models) detail cannot be recovered.    There is no closure relation between the large scale and the small scale.


    Last edited by kvs on Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : changed photo to video)
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    kvs

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  kvs on Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:34 am

    Hole wrote:This is a f...ing large "torpedo".

    The liberast retards in the comment section are actually bitching about the use of animations.

    LOL.

    This thing can easily carry a 10+ ton warhead. That is likely 100 Mton yield.
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Hole on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:49 am

    What do they expect? Half a year ago we didn´t even know this thing exists. No one should expect underwater videos from tests at this point.

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:47 am

    kvs wrote:
    Hole wrote:This is a f...ing large "torpedo".

    The liberast retards in the comment section are actually bitching about the use of animations.

    LOL.

    This thing can easily carry a 10+ ton warhead. That is likely 100 Mton yield.

    No it carries 2 Mt warhead like Avangrad.

    Any idea how much of an under water explosion would 2Mt TN bomb would create and could sink a CBG , How far does it need to be from CBG so that just the blast effect can sink the entire fleet.

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:29 am

    In Russia they told about the homing of the weapon of the "Judgment Day"

    https://lenta.ru/news/2018/07/25/poseidon/
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:38 am

    Standard anti sub depth charges are in the order of 15kt and have a lethal radius of about 9kms where the shockwaves would crush an underwater vessel.

    2MT is 2,000 kts, so we are talking about a pretty devastating weapon against subs and surface ships.

    To be clear a 2MT warhead going off in a harbour would be devastating. normally the heat and blast spread over a reasonable area, but the volume of material in the bomb itself is vapourised and spreads radioactive material around the place.

    An underwater detonation would superheat enormous volumes of salt water and mud which would fall as rain over the immediate are and probably be rather damaging to anyone outside that is exposed to this super hot irradiated material.

    Not very pleasant at all.
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Hole on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:48 am

    Massive



    Lenght: 20m, Diameter: 2m
    For comparison, the R-39 (SS-N-20) is 16m long and has a diameter of 2,4m. Weight: 84t. Poseidon has newer materials, no solid fuel, but i guess it weighs some 50 - 60 tons.

    Means of delivery:
    Subs: Sarov (testing(, Belgorod, Khabarovsk, follow-on class is being designed. Propably Podmoskopvye (externaly).
    Ships: Zwosdotschka, Akademik Kovalev, Akademik Aleksandrov, Elbrus, possibly every ship with a large crane or a slipway.
    Land: every harbor in Russia with a large crane (which means every harbor)


    Even delivery trough air could be possible. An An-124 could carry one. Would need some big parachutes.

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:27 am

    GarryB wrote:Standard anti sub depth charges are in the order of 15kt and have a lethal radius of about 9kms where the shockwaves would crush an underwater vessel.

    2MT is 2,000 kts, so we are talking about a pretty devastating weapon against subs and surface ships.

    To be clear a 2MT warhead going off in a harbour would be devastating. normally the heat and blast spread over a reasonable area, but the volume of material in the bomb itself is vapourised and spreads radioactive material around the place.

    An underwater detonation would superheat enormous volumes of salt water and mud which would fall as rain over the immediate are and probably be rather damaging to anyone outside that is exposed to this super hot irradiated material.

    Not very pleasant at all.

    I would rather use it to vaporise the CBG , lets assume a lethal radius of 20 km , This thing can just come from below and at 20 km from CBG just blows itself off taking every thing along with it.
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Singular_Transform on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:51 pm

    Hole wrote:Massive



    Lenght: 20m, Diameter: 2m
    For comparison, the R-39 (SS-N-20) is 16m long and has a diameter of 2,4m. Weight: 84t. Poseidon has newer materials, no solid fuel, but i guess it weighs some 50 - 60 tons.

    Means of delivery:
    Subs: Sarov (testing(, Belgorod, Khabarovsk, follow-on class is being designed. Propably Podmoskopvye (externaly).
    Ships: Zwosdotschka, Akademik Kovalev, Akademik Aleksandrov, Elbrus, possibly every ship with a large crane or a slipway.
    Land: every harbor in Russia with a large crane (which means every harbor)


    Even delivery trough air could be possible. An An-124 could carry one. Would need some big parachutes.

    250-300 tons.

    The density of it should be the same like the water around it.
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:15 pm

    Austin wrote:....
    I would rather use it to vaporise the CBG , lets assume a lethal radius of 20 km , This thing can just come from below and at 20 km from CBG just blows itself off taking every thing along with it.

    If you are hitting CBGs that means that you are in nuclear war. So in that case there is no point in wasting nuclear weapons on secondary targets like CBGs, save them for cities because those are targets that matter.

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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:28 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Austin wrote:....
    I would rather use it to vaporise the CBG , lets assume a lethal radius of 20 km , This thing can just come from below and at 20 km from CBG just blows itself off taking every thing along with it.

    If you are hitting CBGs that means that you are in nuclear war. So in that case there is no point in wasting nuclear weapons on secondary targets like CBGs, save them for cities because those are targets that matter.

    All targets are important and there are enough nuclear weapons to destroy them all
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:48 pm

    Austin wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Austin wrote:....
    I would rather use it to vaporise the CBG , lets assume a lethal radius of 20 km , This thing can just come from below and at 20 km from CBG just blows itself off taking every thing along with it.

    If you are hitting CBGs that means that you are in nuclear war. So in that case there is no point in wasting nuclear weapons on secondary targets like CBGs, save them for cities because those are targets that matter.

    All targets are important and there are enough nuclear weapons to destroy them all

    Do you know what nuclear war is?
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Hole on Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:30 pm

    Nuclear war will be the end of climate change. Laughing
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:40 pm

    Hole wrote:Massive



    Lenght: 20m, Diameter: 2m
    For comparison, the R-39 (SS-N-20) is 16m long and has a diameter of 2,4m. Weight: 84t. Poseidon has newer materials, no solid fuel, but i guess it weighs some 50 - 60 tons.

    Means of delivery:
    Subs: Sarov (testing(, Belgorod, Khabarovsk, follow-on class is being designed. Propably Podmoskopvye (externaly).
    Ships: Zwosdotschka, Akademik Kovalev, Akademik Aleksandrov, Elbrus, possibly every ship with a large crane or a slipway.
    Land: every harbor in Russia with a large crane (which means every harbor)


    Even delivery trough air could be possible. An An-124 could carry one. Would need some big parachutes.

    Clearly this device is big enough to carry a 10+ ton payload. Proof by assertion such as the claim above that it can only carry
    a 500 kg warhead is retarded BS. What sort of moron designers would limit this device to a 2 Mton yield warhead. That
    is not the stated purpose of the Poseidon. If they want a doomsday platform then we are talking 10+ ton payloads.
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:30 pm

    Hole wrote:Nuclear war will be the end of climate change. Laughing

    Or merely end of beginning of climate change... Cool
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    Re: "Poseidon" Underwater Nuclear Drone

    Post  Hole on Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:35 pm

    But who would care after all that? dunno

    If an R-39 can carry 10 warheads of 100kt or some 2,5t payload, this thing can definetly carry much more.

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