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    "Poseidon" Nuclear-armed Underwater Drone

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:15 pm

    Having such a doomsday weapon is a deterrence in itself, helping to prevent a doomsday from arriving.
    In 1945, an atomic bomb + a B-29 was such a doomsday weapon that was used on Japan twice to scare & dissuade Stalin from taking Hokkaido & Northern Honshu. Then came the Cuban Missile Crisis that removed US BMs from Turkey.
    The MAD doctrine kept USSR & USA from directly fighting each other.
    The USA will never have a complete monopoly on any weapon- Germany, Japan, NK, Soviet & Modern Russia + China proved it many times.
    I hope, that humanity will shape up to overcome its aggressiveness & avoid self-destruction.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:18 am

    Having such a doomsday weapon is a deterrence in itself, helping to prevent a doomsday from arriving.

    Well there are pretty much two solid reasons to have a doomsday device... one is because you are insane and actually want to destroy the world, and the other is because you are up against insane people who want to destroy you.

    The point is that these two perspectives are actually opposite, one is a Bond villain type who is angry with everything and wants the world to end for everyone... they want to destroy the world. The other doesn't want the world to end but also wants to remain safe from all enemies... some very powerful, so they actually don't want the world to end but are prepared to end it to stay safe personally.

    In 1945, an atomic bomb + a B-29 was such a doomsday weapon

    I disagree... it was an awesomely powerful weapon, but delivery and production meant it really was not practical for use against the Soviets... they would have had the numbers to shoot down any US bombers trying to deliver it... and even if one got through the Soviets had lost many cities already in that war... if the Soviet forces were attacked by the west it would probably keep steam rollering to the English channel, so any nuke attacks will be in western europe.

    that was used on Japan twice to scare & dissuade Stalin from taking Hokkaido & Northern Honshu.

    Stalin knew about the bomb and wasn't interested in taking any more territory than had already been agreed upon... it was intended to impress stalin with their new powerful weapon, but it was only a matter of time before he got access to the same power.

    The MAD doctrine kept USSR & USA from directly fighting each other.

    Officially... in actual fact Soviet and US pilots fought in Korea and Vietnam and other places too... not to mention all the recon aircraft the Soviets had to shoot down during the cold war.

    I hope, that humanity will shape up to overcome its aggressiveness & avoid self-destruction.

    Totally ironic that the only doctrine that can guarantee to keep us all safe is literally called MAD... sadly that says it all really.

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:48 am

    I disagree... it was an awesomely powerful weapon, but delivery and production meant it really was not practical for use against the Soviets... they would have had the numbers to shoot down any US bombers trying to deliver it...
    There were big gaps in their AD & B-29/36/47/52s could fly low to cross into USSR airspace from the Arctic Ocean. That's why they developed the long range Tu-128 & MiG-25/31 interceptors.

    Stalin knew about the bomb and wasn't interested in taking any more territory than had already been agreed upon...

    Those 2 detonations convinced him not to grab N. Japan- he didn't know how many A-bombs the US had.
    Officially... in actual fact Soviet and US pilots fought in Korea and Vietnam and other places too...
    in Korea, the Soviet pilots were in Chinese uniforms; in Vietnam, there was no need for them- enough locals were trained by then but the Soviet PVO units were deployed there.
    Pilots & sailors on subs engaging each other isn't the same as ground troops exchanging fire in Europe or Asia.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:00 am

    There were big gaps in their AD & B-29/36/47/52s could fly low to cross into USSR airspace from the Arctic Ocean. That's why they developed the long range Tu-128 & MiG-25/31 interceptors.

    The B-29 simply didn't have the range to go anywhere at low altitude... when they bombed Germany they had to stop off in Russia and be refuelled to fly back.

    Those interceptors were developed to counter much later much more capable platforms with much smaller lighter and compact nuclear weapons.

    Those 2 detonations convinced him not to grab N. Japan- he didn't know how many A-bombs the US had.

    He had detailed reports on the US nuclear weapons programme, and knew how few they actually had. The US president was surprised at how unsurprised Stalin was regarding nuclear weapons.

    The weapon design information greatly speeded up the Soviet bomb development programme.

    n Korea, the Soviet pilots were in Chinese uniforms; in Vietnam, there was no need for them- enough locals were trained by then but the Soviet PVO units were deployed there.
    Pilots & sailors on subs engaging each other isn't the same as ground troops exchanging fire in Europe or Asia.

    Significant numbers of American pilots "got lost" and accidently flew into restricted airspace over the Soviet Union, and their reward was to get shot down on several occasions... Powers was the most public example of a CIA pilot flying a spy plane, but most were recon aircraft which were in fact converted obsolete bombers... and quite a few were shot down. WIth sub incursions into Soviet waters they were less lethal... I seem to remember the memoirs of a US sub captain who managed to get into a Soviet area during a Soviet exercise... he was detected and chased down and just when he was expecting depth charges and time in a jail he received a message from the commander of the Soviet exercise to thank him for the realistic practise but to not come back.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:56 pm

    The B-29 simply didn't have the range to go anywhere at low altitude... when they bombed Germany they had to stop off in Russia and be refuelled to fly back.
    They weren't used in Europe at all during the war, but the the B-17 were all withdrawn from the Pacific to bomb the Germans & Italians, & they had a refueling & rearming base at Poltava.
    The B-29s Superfortresses could get low just before penetration, but even if detected at their high altitudes the Soviet AF didn't have capable fighters to intercept them for a few years.

    He had detailed reports on the US nuclear weapons programme, and knew how few they actually had.
    In a ny case, Stalin didn't want to fight USA on 2 fronts over N. Japan- by then, he had all of Korea & the Kurils. The US was ready to enlist German POWs against the USSR if need be.

    Significant numbers of American pilots "got lost" and accidently flew into restricted airspace over the Soviet Union, and their reward was to get shot down on several occasions...
    those exceptions prove the rule: the Cold War mostly stayed cold with occasional incidents & flare ups. The USS Halibut was also used on spy missions several times in Soviet waters, & it got a way with it. There was also competition to get 1st to the N. Pole & sail around the World underwater, besides a race to the Moon.
    Today, Russia & US r still avoiding direct conflict- they use proxies & mercenaries so their active duty service members don't kill each other.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correction)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:43 am

    The B-29s Stratofortresses could get low just before penetration, but even if detected at their high altitudes the Soviet AF didn't have capable fighters to intercept them for a few years.

    First of all they didn't have any bombs left to carry at that point so even if you are right it does not matter.

    Second there was a vast Soviet Army sitting in the middle of Europe... I am sure even the weakest excuse to continue to the English coast would be all that was needed.

    Even a MiG-3 would paste a B-29 most of the time, and their later fighters were not designed for high altitude operations, but they had quite a few aircraft that could have done the job... even if it came down to ramming the American bombers.

    In a ny case, Stalin didn't want to fight USA on 2 fronts over N. Japan- by then, he had all of Korea & the Kurils

    Funny, how the west first claims evil stalin wants to invade Japan and only the brave and handsome Americans stopped it by murdering half a million people with two nuclear bombs... but then when analysed and you realise Stalin clearly had no intention of breaking his agreement with the US to join the war so that the US wasn't left fighting the Japs on their own, Stalin is still the evil bad guy and the Americans the good guys.

    American paranoia led to them assuming Stalin would do what they would do and they murdered hundreds of thousands of people to try to send a strong message to Stalin. I am sure they did... these guys are fucking crazy.

    Stalin got back all the territory Russia had lost over the years including the kuriles... note they didn't occupy Korea or China or Manchuria, like the US occupied South Korea and Japan and Germany... but again Russia is the bad guy... Rolling Eyes ...getting boring.

    those exceptions prove the rule: the Cold War mostly stayed cold with occasional incidents & flare ups.

    That is just stupid... that is like saying Adolf Hitler was a peace loving leader... all those countries he invaded were self defence or necessary and therefore these exceptions proved the rule... no they don't.

    The Cold War was a period of two sides actively using proxies to damage or take land or resources from the other... there was nothing cold about it.

    The USS Halibut was also used on spy missions several times in Soviet waters, & it got a way with it.

    Yeah, those aggressive commies who wanted to dominate the world... don't hear about Soviet bomber crews or recon crews shot down entering US airspace or Soviet ships in US waters...

    Today, Russia & US r still avoiding direct conflict- they use proxies & mercenaries so their active duty service members don't kill each other.

    Yes, of course... I wonder if that 5 billion dollars the US spent to overthrow the legitimate government in the Ukraine included the funds to pay the Georgian snipers to murder police and innocent civilians.... or was that extra?
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 am

    Funny, how the west first claims evil stalin wants to invade Japan and only the brave and handsome Americans stopped it by murdering half a million people with two nuclear bombs...
    No, it is being officially claimed in their history books that the 2 A-bombs forced Japan to capitulate, not that it was done to scare Stalin or that Japan was going to capitulate anyway.
    Second there was a vast Soviet Army sitting in the middle of Europe... note they didn't occupy Korea or China or Manchuria, like the US occupied South Korea and Japan and Germany...
    They did occupy E. Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania & NK before installing their cronies there.
    In 1956 & 1968, Hungary & Czechoslovakia were invaded as per Brezhnev Doctrine. Mongolia later hosted Soviet Army tank divisions as a deterrent to Maoist China.
    Ideology aside, everything was done to protect mother Russia.

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