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    "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:05 pm

    Never heard of a country named Kremlin. dunno
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    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:45 pm

    Hole wrote:Never heard of a country named Kremlin. dunno

    It's called brainwashing. Americans have been weened from birth for generations on the terms "Kremlin's ambitions", "Kremlin controlled",
    "Kremlin ...". These are pure Pavolovian trigger phrases which induces the analog of drooling in the US and NATO mass media consumer.
    Their brain turns off and a pre-installed stereotype clicks on.

    I always found it silly how the book "1984" by Eric Blair was supposedly about Russia under communism (or whenever). Winston Smith was
    the stereotypical Brit and the sort of cheesy thought control simply did not happen in the USSR and Russia even during the worst periods.
    Russians do not give their media and government the benefit of the doubt. As far as Americans are concerned, they may as well be
    trained poodles. That is why patent BS like "Russiagate" is still ongoing.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:24 am

    He was quite critical of the developments in England and the changing of the language and so on. For him it was all about his country and how it could look in 1984. He just missed the date by a couple of years. Todays speech is very close to what he imagined, at least in the neo-liberal west.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:36 am

    http://www.pravda-tv.ru/2019/03/22/412050/ispytaniya-rossijskih-raket-kinzhal-vstrevozhili-razvedku-ssha


    In February of this year, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu reported that the MiG-31, equipped with Dagger missiles, carried out 380 flights over the waters of the Black and Caspian Seas. Including hypersonic rockets passed tests in adverse weather conditions, hitting a training target the size of a passenger car at a distance of 1000 kilometers.

    well I believe more Shoigu then "source very likely on condition of anonymity" russia russia russia


    dino00 wrote:
    one person, who spoke to CNBC on the condition of anonymity, said.

    better call thins with their names:  just some moron from Us propaganda dept




    Hole wrote:Never heard of a country named Kremlin. dunno

    There is Vatican can be Kremlin or what?
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:40 pm

    As I said multiple of times - Kinzhal will be Russia's main arm in Hypersonic for general (non strategic) use until Zircon comes into force. Hopefully they can increase range even more.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:35 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:As I said multiple of times - Kinzhal will be Russia's main arm in Hypersonic for general (non strategic) use until Zircon comes into force.  Hopefully they can increase range even more.

    I am quite sure that the Zircon range is some minimal figure. The range is determined by the hypersonic speed. Adding more fuel would easily propel the Zircon to
    2000 km. I think the clowns in the Pentagon realize these details. Expect all sorts of squirming and shrieking from the NATO ubermenschen in the near future.
    They are exposed and they don't like it.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:43 pm

    Well, test was at 1k km. But it's range is apparently 3k km
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:48 pm

    kvs wrote:I am quite sure that the Zircon range is some minimal figure.   The range is determined by the hypersonic speed.   Adding more fuel would easily propel the Zircon to
    2000 km.   I think the clowns in the Pentagon realize these details.    Expect all sorts of squirming and shrieking from the NATO ubermenschen in the near future.
    They are exposed and they don't like it.

    Hysteria from the Pentagram is only to be expected. Its a form of insanity brought on by the sudden realisation that their $14B God Chariots aka carriers have been magically transformed from assets into liabilities. Twisted Evil
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:52 pm

    kvs wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:As I said multiple of times - Kinzhal will be Russia's main arm in Hypersonic for general (non strategic) use until Zircon comes into force.  Hopefully they can increase range even more.

    I am quite sure that the Zircon range is some minimal figure.   The range is determined by the hypersonic speed.   Adding more fuel would easily propel the Zircon to
    2000 km.   I think the clowns in the Pentagon realize these details.    Expect all sorts of squirming and shrieking from the NATO ubermenschen in the near future.
    They are exposed and they don't like it.

    2000 km range is already attainable with a high-altitude (40km, 20km attained by aircraft) air-launched approach. Take for example Kalibr-M and Kh-101, it's widely believed that the deep modernization of Kalibr to Kalibr-M was driven by the finalized development of Kh-101, which has a range of 5500km....however because it (Kalibr-M) is surface launched, it loses 1000km in range, so instead of 5500km range it has 4500km range. Zircon with a air-launched, high altitude pattern could easily gain 1000km in range to get the 2000km mark. We should also consider the potential max increase in speed. The difference between supersonic speeds is very relevant to altitude, so at low altitude 10,734.12 km/h translates to Mach 9 speed (surfaced launched Zircon), but at high altitude (40km) 10,734.12 km/h translates to Mach 10 speed.


    Last edited by magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:13 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    kvs wrote:I am quite sure that the Zircon range is some minimal figure.   The range is determined by the hypersonic speed.   Adding more fuel would easily propel the Zircon to
    2000 km.   I think the clowns in the Pentagon realize these details.    Expect all sorts of squirming and shrieking from the NATO ubermenschen in the near future.
    They are exposed and they don't like it.

    Hysteria from the Pentagram is only to be expected.  Its a form of insanity brought on by the sudden realisation that their $14B God Chariots aka  carriers have been magically transformed from assets into liabilities.  Twisted Evil

    What's even more interesting is the DEEPLY flawed design of the Ford class carriers...take a look at the cutaway for example, see anything wrong? Hint: the proximity of the arming/disarming platform in relation to the main engine room:

    "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex - Page 9 MXBmlhg
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    Post  dino00 on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:22 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:As I said multiple of times - Kinzhal will be Russia's main arm in Hypersonic for general (non strategic) use until Zircon comes into force.  Hopefully they can increase range even more.

    I am quite sure that the Zircon range is some minimal figure.   The range is determined by the hypersonic speed.   Adding more fuel would easily propel the Zircon to
    2000 km.   I think the clowns in the Pentagon realize these details.    Expect all sorts of squirming and shrieking from the NATO ubermenschen in the near future.
    They are exposed and they don't like it.

    2000 km range is already attainable with a high-altitude (40km) air-launched approach. Take for example Kalibr-M and Kh-101, it's widely believed that the deep modernization of Kalibr to Kalibr-M was driven by the finalized development of Kh-101, which has a range of 5500km....however because it (Kalibr-M) is surface launched, it loses 1000km in range, so instead of 5500km range it has 4500km range. Zircon with a air-launched, high altitude pattern could easily gain 1000km in range to get the 2000km mark. We should also consider the potential max increase in speed. The difference between supersonic speeds is very relevant to altitude, so at low altitude 10,734.12 km/h translates to Mach 9 speed (surfaced launched Zircon), but at high altitude (40km) 10,734.12 km/h translates to Mach 10 speed.

    An air launched Zirkon (GZUR) will be smaller(less fuel) but maybe it could still achive 2000km range, Zirkon has a 1000km range plus, depends on what the plus is.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:35 am

    dino00 wrote:
    An air launched Zirkon (GZUR) will be smaller(less fuel) but maybe it could still achive 2000km range, Zirkon has a 1000km range plus, depends on what the plus is.

    because aircraft adds both height + speed so you dont need first stage booster to do that.


    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    2000 km range is already attainable with a high-altitude (40km, 20km attained by aircraft) air-launched approach. Take for example Kalibr-M and Kh-101, it's widely believed that the deep modernization of Kalibr to Kalibr-M was driven by the finalized development of Kh-101, which has a range of 5500km....however because it (Kalibr-M) is surface launched, it loses 1000km in range, so instead of 5500km range it has 4500km range. Zircon with a air-launched, high altitude pattern could easily gain 1000km in range to get the 2000km mark. We should also consider the potential max increase in speed. The difference between supersonic speeds is very relevant to altitude, so at low altitude 10,734.12 km/h translates to Mach 9 speed (surfaced launched Zircon), but at high altitude (40km) 10,734.12 km/h translates to Mach 10 speed.

    not sure if Russian MoD works on that, they seem to work on GZUR (and later as Jane's say GZUR II) . Both have air breathing engines, so save wright since you dont need oxidant . So called GZUR II should fly 12-14Ma...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:58 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Hysteria from the Pentagram is only to be expected.  Its a form of insanity brought on by the sudden realisation that their $14B God Chariots aka  carriers have been magically transformed from assets into liabilities.  Twisted Evil

    collaterals lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:41 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Well, test was at 1k km. But it's range is apparently 3k km


    Kh-47M2 Kinzhal is actually system consisting of missile and carrier (Tu-22M3M or MiG-31K). Range 2000km (MiG-31k) or 3000km (Tu-22M3M) includes range of carrier).
    if you look at MiG-31 (wiki)

    combat radius: 720 km (450 mi; 390 nmi) at Mach 2.35 and at an altitude of 18,000 m
    when we add ~1,500km you have 2,100-2,200km range et voila





    "
    The reports on the characteristics of the Dagger aircraft aeroballistic missile do not cause much surprise and confirm the available guesses that the range of the 2,000 km complex indicated during the President’s Address to the Federal Assembly also includes the combat radius of the carrier — the supersonic MiG-31K interceptor .

    It must be said that the missile’s flight range itself, equal to 1.5 thousand km, is quite an impressive indicator and is achieved due to the fact that the launch is carried out at high altitude and supersonic speed. Accordingly, the rocket, which is actually a modification of that of the ground operational tactical complex (OTRK) "Iskander-M", spends much less fuel and is able to fly three times farther.

    The use of a missile from a Tu-22M3 carrier may still reduce the range somewhat, since this bomber, although gaining supersonic speed, will be lower (as well as the altitude). However, the range of the “Dagger” in this case is unlikely to be lower than 1–1.2 thousand km.

    "


    Подробности: https://regnum.ru/news/2450236.html
    Любое использование материалов допускается только при наличии гиперссылки на ИА REGNUM.
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    Post  George1 on Fri May 17, 2019 12:27 am

    Vesti Kinzhal shot.

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    Post  kvs on Fri May 17, 2019 1:48 am

    This is a solid fuel missile and it shows the stupendous advance in Russian solid fuel technology since the 1980s. I get the impression
    that not too many people are clued in to this. I have seen no evidence of similar advances in NATO.

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    Post  Gazputin on Tue May 21, 2019 8:41 am

    don't forget most cruise missiles use a solid fuel 1st stage booster to get airborne then switch to jet engine for cruise mode

    thing is with Kinzhal …. it is already at close to 100,000 ft and doing Mach 1-2.5 …. as it is launched
    via an incredible aircraft … it is already airborne and travelling at insane speeds at insane altitudes …. before it is launched

    once you are that high its all downhill …. and accelerating

    thing is … the Mig-31 …. is the 1st stage …. a man-piloted one …
    its pure genius …..

    but it is at the end of the day a "theatre weapon"
    utterly brilliant for the Black Sea etc …. Baltic perhaps ….

    I'd call it a "strategic theatre weapon" …. and cheap as chips …. pure genius … as you would expect from Russians

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    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:40 am

    Interesting fair report about Hypersonic missiles.

    How to defeat Hypersonic-Missile?




    One thing the report don't mention is that

    Hypersonic speed is from Mach 5-10 ----------------------- (kinzhal mach 10.0 and zircon mach 8,0 missile)   The Russian mig-41 supposedly will fly at near hypersonic mach 4.2.

    High-Hypersonic is from MACh 10+ to mach 25  

    Re-entry speed is from Mach 25+ to up.. ----(Avangard Missile Mach 27)



    So the avangard missile technically speaking is not hypersonic missile
    but a Re-entry speed missile.. Much much faster up to a bit more faster
    than 5x times hypersonic mach 5.0 missile. 5x5 =25 < 27


    you can see the mach speed differences here..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number

    and Avangard claimed to fly up to mach 27 speeds in test.. by Russia military.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avangard_(hypersonic_glide_vehicle)

    Russia needs to mass produce in the thousands Kinzhal missiles , and configure every
    every warship ,mig-31 or bigger combat plane and missile in Russia military to carry one. Very Happy

    Also design a shorter range version for pak-fa and all Russian sukhois planes..

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:46 am

    Never heard of a country named Kremlin.


    A Kremlin is what you get when you feed a Mogwai after midnight... Cool
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    Post  nero on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:52 am

    Vann7 wrote:Russia needs to mass produce in the thousands Kinzhal missiles
    And why would they do that, exactly?
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:03 am

    The main reason they get awesome performance from the Iskander is because of the MiG-31s flight performance with external payloads... to be honest they should be able to achieve much much better performance with scramjet powered weapons in due course... for the very same reasons that you can get much better range performance from jet powered aircraft compared with rocket powered ones.

    If the requirement is long range then jets make more sense unless you demand very high flight speed as well then you go to ICBM sized ballistic rockets, but with scramjet technology the options are swinging back to jet powered aircraft...

    For some time there was a race between rockets and cruise missiles to create an intercontinental range weapon... ICBMs won that race, but now cruise missiles have been given an enormous boost with scramjet engines and might become much more prolific...
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    Post  Arrow on Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:31 pm

    Why Kinzhal is called a hypersonic maneuvering rocket. it's an ordinary ballistic missile like Iskander-M. The missile maneuvers but only to a limited extent like Iskander-M. Only Awangard and Cirkon are hypersonic missiles with the possibility of considerable maneuvers.
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    Post  Isos on Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:56 pm

    Even a little manoeuvre at mach 4 or 5 means that the missile moved some km from its ballistic path.

    ABM missile will try to intercept the kinzhal or iskander by calculating an interception point by analyzing its path but if the missiles moves a little bit, the interception coordinate won't be the same and the abm missile won't have energy to catch it again. 

    Add to this that the interception window is very small because an iskander will stay only few seconds in the engagement zone of the abm system. At maximum the abm could engage it with 2 missiles and probably not at the same time because guiding two missiles at a mach 5-10 target isn't something easy for air defence system. 

    That's what makes iskander and kinzhal hard to intercept.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:34 pm

    Arrow wrote:Why Kinzhal is called a hypersonic maneuvering rocket. it's an ordinary ballistic missile like Iskander-M. The missile maneuvers but only to a limited extent like Iskander-M. Only Awangard and Cirkon are hypersonic missiles with the possibility of considerable maneuvers.

    Because phrase 'hypersonic' refers to speed not propulsion method

    Also it maneuvers, that's not a mystery

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    Post  Arrow on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:42 pm

    So Iskander- M is hypersonic wepons, Bulava is hypersonic wepons, Yars is hypersonic wepons... V-2 is hypersonic wepons Laughing All balistic missile is hypersonic wepons.

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