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    "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 pm

    Nice pic of Khinzhal....  

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue May 08, 2018 12:29 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Nice pic of Khinzhal....  

    https://russianplanes.net/images/to229000/228856.jpg

    It's a mockup for parade, you notice how all potentially interesting parts from the front are absent?

    But great pic nonetheless, loving the plane.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed May 09, 2018 2:26 am

    Yes, but its a good pic for clearly showing the missile general arrangement and silhouette. Clear Iskander pedigree.

    mnztr

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  mnztr on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:12 am

    I was thinking Kinzhal can also be used as a pretty amazing strategic anti aircraft weapon. Using airburst nukes, it can swat down B-52s in their staging areas and take down many cruise missiles with shockwaves as well.
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    Hole

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    I was thinking Kinzhal

    Post  Hole on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:30 am

    Hit them before they start. Twisted Evil
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    dino00

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  dino00 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:02 pm

    Russia's new hypersonic missile, which can be launched from warplanes, will likely be ready for combat by 2020


    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/13/russia-new-hypersonic-missile-likely-ready-for-war-by-2020.html

    Can`t understand they tested 3 or 12 times dunno
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm

    dino00 wrote:Russia's new hypersonic missile, which can be launched from warplanes, will likely be ready for combat by 2020


    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/13/russia-new-hypersonic-missile-likely-ready-for-war-by-2020.html

    Can`t understand they tested 3 or 12 times dunno

    It's CNBC.

    In same article they claim that Buravestnik nuclear powered missile crashed in one test after 4 seconds and that it went for 5 miles... which makes zero sense because Buravestnik is subsonic missile and there is no way it could go that far in 4 seconds.

    Just more trash, wait for different source.
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    kvs

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  kvs on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:40 pm

    All the reports about how "experimental" are the Russian systems are nothing more than trash talk propaganda.
    After Putin's announcement of the existence of these systems (and their deployment readiness) you could feel
    a palpable transition in NATO from some sort of hysterical frenzy for WWIII to a sudden business as usual tone.
    The deciders in Washington and elsewhere know very well that these systems are deadly serious even if the
    NATO fake stream media pretends they are a non-existent joke.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:10 pm

    Russia should deploy MiG-31s with Kinzhals in Black Sea region — expert http://tass.com/defense/1014139

    MEUs & oil tankers/ammo. supply ships could also be targeted by them. W/o those, a CSG is mission killed.
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    Ives

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Ives on Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:20 am

    Some quick points:

    1) MiG-31 is the best carrier of the missile. Period. Mach 10 can be achieved only with its speed. Missile's range is 1500km, though.

    2) Su-30SM/34 won't be used as a platform IMHO, since they are a lot slower. With Su-30SM/34 the speed would be like Mach 8,5. Su-35 makes more sence in that case.

    3) It seems to me, that at least 50 MiG-31s will be converted into MiG-31K and Su-30SMs, equipped with RVV-BD will replace those MiGs as interceptors.

    4) The missile is based on Iskander, obviously. It is very likely it uses totally different seeker in order to avoid plasma field's 'mutting'.
    Some folks say that seeker is optical one, though it is still debatable.

    5) It would be a lot easier to destroy NATO's air defence, air/naval bases in Europe with the missile, than USN's CBG, since the latter one is a lot better protected by electronic warfare, sprayed clouds and false-targets. It is safe to say, that with 400 Kinzhals, let's say, UK Armed Forces become easy meat for instance.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:02 pm

    Then why test them on TU-22Ms? Even if they r slower, still it'll add another tool against CSGs. They could send a strike package with differently armed TU-22Ms for different vectors &/ targets in the CSG.
    The MiG-31Ks (or whatever their designation will be) r for backup &/ shorter range land/maritime strike missions, not too far from the EEZ.
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    Ives

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Ives on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:47 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why test them on TU-22Ms? Even if they r slower, still it'll add another tool against CSGs. They could send a strike package with differently armed TU-22Ms for different vectors &/ targets in the CSG.
    The MiG-31Ks (or whatever their designation will be) r for backup &/ shorter range land/maritime strike missions, not too far from the EEZ.

    I think they do it, because of payload. Tu-22M3 can carry up to 4 of them. But, you are right in some way - 8,5M is not a serious downgrade, since NATO still has nothing to counter it, really. Frankly speaking, even Mach 6 is a hell of a challenge for NATO's air defence.

    MiG-31K is the primarily platform, since it is the only Russian jet, that can hit and leave without even minding any interception. Simply put, NATO jets are slowpokes compared to it. Also, with MiG-31, the speed will be higher as I stated, so it provides more opportunity to make a 'surprise strike' and gives enemy even less time to react.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:08 pm

    Ives wrote:Some quick points:

    5) It would be a lot easier to destroy NATO's air defence, air/naval bases in Europe with the missile, than USN's CBG, since the latter one is a lot better protected by electronic warfare, sprayed clouds and false-targets. It is safe to say, that with 400 Kinzhals, let's say, UK Armed Forces become easy meat for instance.  

    Blimey, 400!!! We only have 7/8 or so military airfields (inc USAF) left here now. Hit them and a couple of naval bases along with 3/4 civilian ports and the UK military isn't going anywhere. You could probably even ignore the HQ sites as they wouldn't have anything left that they could do but it might be good to hit the 2/3 US comms sites.
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    Ives

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Ives on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:31 pm

    JohninMK wrote:

    Blimey, 400!!! We only have 7/8 or so military airfields (inc USAF) left here now. Hit them and a couple of naval bases along with 3/4 civilian ports and the UK military isn't going anywhere. You could probably even ignore the HQ sites as they wouldn't have anything left that they could do but it might be good to hit the 2/3 US comms sites.

    7-8? You for real? How come? I thought UK is sorta 3rd strongest in NATO...
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    Ives

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Ives on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:35 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Blimey, 400!!!

    Yes, baby, 400:


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:51 am

    Unless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!
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    Ives

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Ives on Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:18 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Unless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!

    Why such treaty should even take place? Because yankees are backwarded in hypersonic stuff?
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:25 am

    They'll catch up eventually, or respond by increasing their tactical nukes arsenal. I know their mentality well!
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    Ives

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Ives on Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:42 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:They'll catch up eventually, or respond by increasing their tactical nukes arsenal. I know their mentality well!

    Increased number of nukes won't change much. And US will get the equivalent of Iskander-M only after 2027. So, any Kinzhal's conterpart will be available only after 2027 eventually.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:07 am

    We have 12 SSBNs with 24 SLBMs each & 4 SSGNs with 154 SLCMs each + 10 future Virginia Vs with 28 SLCMs each; some could get reduced yield nuclear warheads on them, not to mention many surface ships with CMs & the AF ALCMs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia-class_submarine#Block_V
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/02/trump-nuclear-posture-document-encourages-use-of-nukes-say-critics.html
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:32 am

    Ives wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Unless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!

    Why such treaty should even take place? Because yankees are backwarded in hypersonic stuff?

    Actually yess. Why INF is in place in current shape? US fighters can reach  Russian's mainland form EU and otherwise is not trivial. Why AMD shield exists?

    Some times ago there was start of "proposals to limit hypersonic technology proliferation" initiated in US/UK where Russia and China were to restrict their hypersonic "export" thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

    But no US is gonna catch up earlier - depending on funding.





    Ives wrote:

    5) It would be a lot easier to destroy NATO's air defence, air/naval bases in Europe with the missile, than USN's CBG, since the latter one is a lot better protected by electronic warfare, sprayed clouds and false-targets. It is safe to say, that with 400 Kinzhals, let's say, UK Armed Forces become easy meat for instance.  

    conventionally tipped. With tactical nukes can go easier.





    Tsavo Lion wrote:Unless & until there's a new treaty in place limiting hypersonic missiles!

    unlikely as PGM is very limited then not to mention AMD by Russian doorsteps . Poseidon torpedoes also wont go into any limits.
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    GarryB

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:10 am

    Russia can choose... it can make the west give up something really serious for a treaty on hypersonic weapons, or it can just refuse.

    If the US does not offer anything really appealing to Russia in return for limiting these weapons, then Russia has no real reason to limit itself...

    The purpose of the Kinzhal will likely primarily be to engage ABM systems in Europe and any carrier groups near Russian waters... but with inflight refuelling and various other improvements the Tu-22M3M will extend the reach of the Kinzhal by quite a distance... and four of those missiles externally would mean the internal weapon bay would be free for 6 Kh-50 1,500km range subsonic cruise missiles on a rotary launcher...

    Not really as safe as a fast moving MiG-31, but it could have a dozen Su-35s operating with it and it would certainly be able to fly at mach 1.5 for quite some distance...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Not really as safe as a fast moving MiG-31, but it could have a dozen Su-35s operating with it and it would certainly be able to fly at mach 1.5 for quite some distance...

    For EU - Kiznal MiG-31/Iskander pair should be OK. For Pacific or North Im convinced that Tus are 99% for "fleet clearing tasks" . Over Pacific you dotn have many airports right? so first you attack Us airbases and CSGs fork safedistance. Once way is cleared Tu-160M2s have cleared way to mainland...

    Us cannot attack 2Ma jet form 1500 kms for mainland and wit such salvo of 5000kms CMs ...
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    Hole

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:45 pm

    According to some sources (southfront):



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    miketheterrible

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:13 pm

    These are the most dire times and the Kinzhal is the best option for Russia to have a heavy punch.

    Since Iskander was recently tested against ships, it kinda further indicates that this is an air launched iskander. Fine by me as long as it works.

    More need to be made, and more launch platforms.

    Make it rain such missiles.

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