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    "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

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    PapaDragon

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    "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:13 pm

    So apparently:

    "Kinzhal" anti-ship​ missile, air launched (MiG-31) Mach 10 speed, 2000km range

    Nuclear powered (yes, powered) cruise missile, unlimited range

    Sarmat already tested, 200ton overall mass

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201803011062108691-putin-russia-weapons-us-missile-treaty/
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    The-thing-next-door

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    "Kinzhal" anti-ship​ missile

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:29 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    So apparently:

    "Kinzhal" anti-ship​ missile, air launched (MiG-31) Mach 10 speed, 2000km range

    Nuclear powered (yes, powered) cruise missile, unlimited range

    Sarmat already tested, 200ton overall mass

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201803011062108691-putin-russia-weapons-us-missile-treaty/

    Nuclear powered cruise missiles Khruhschev would be proud.

    Does anyoene else get the impression that Russia will leave START once they have all thier new missiles ready for production?
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    George1

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:52 pm

    Part video, part CGI of the new hypersonic air-to-surface missile named Kinzhal carried by MiG-31B 592 Blue testbed was presented during V.V. Putin's annual state-of-the-nation address.





    Last edited by George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:55 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:.................
    Nuclear powered cruise missiles Khruhschev would be proud.....

    That one is still in concept phase however Kinzhal is more than ready to go.

    I wonder if Kinzhal can fit into those Granit launch tubes? Can anyone clarify?


    The-thing-next-door wrote:.........
    Does anyoene else get the impression that Russia will leave START once they have all thier new missiles ready for production?

    With these things in play they won't need to.
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    George1

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:16 pm

    We talk about sth unique here, thats why i made a seperate topic.
    Kinzhal hypersonic complex seems to be an aircraft-type carrier

    Hypersonic missile system goes on combat duty in Russia's south

    The possession of hypersonic weapons gives Russia a serious advantage, Putin has noted

    MOSCOW, March 1. /TASS/. The Kinzhal hypersonic complex capable of delivering missiles to a discharge point within just several minutes assumed combat duty in south Russia from December 1, 2017, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in his State of the Nation Address to the Federal Assembly on Thursday.

    "As an important stage of armament development, a precision hypersonic aviation and missile complex has been created," Putin said.

    From December 1, 2017, the new missile complex called Kinzhal "started carrying out its experimental and combat duty missions at aerodromes of the Southern Military District," the Russian president said.

    According to Putin, "the unique flight and technical characteristics of the high-speed aircraft-type carrier make it possible to deliver missiles to a discharge point within just minutes while the missile flying at a hypersonic speed exceeding the speed of sound by 10 times maneuvers at all the flight trajectory’s sections, which enables it to reliably overcome all existing and, I believe, future air defense and anti-ballistic missile defense systems, delivering nuclear and conventional warheads to the target to the distance of over 2,000 kilometers," Putin said, adding that the system was called Kinzhal.

    The Kinzhal’s capabilities were demonstrated in a video, which drew the audience’s applause.

    The possession of hypersonic weapons "gives serious advantages in the sphere of the armed struggle," Putin said.

    "Their power and might, as military experts say, can be huge while their velocity makes them invulnerable to today’s ABM and air defense systems because interceptors simply fail to catch them up," the Russian leader said.

    "Dear friends, Russia does possess such weapons. It already possesses them," Putin said to the audience’s applause.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/992304
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    George1

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:19 pm

    The interesting point is that it is already in active duty. So what airplanes can carry it? Only MiG-31 or others also?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:40 pm

    George1 wrote:The interesting point is that it is already in active duty. So what airplanes can carry it? Only MiG-31 or others also?

    Active duty? You sure? If yes than awesome.

    I assume Tu-22M will be pretty much default platform, should carry at least 2, maybe even 4 if they get creative.

    This missile just became one of main arguments for development of PAK-DA, large payload+long loiter time. Perfect.
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    George1

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:The interesting point is that it is already in active duty. So what airplanes can carry it? Only MiG-31 or others also?

    Active duty? You sure? If yes than awesome.

    I assume Tu-22M will be pretty much default platform, should carry at least 2, maybe even 4 if they get creative.

    This missile just became one of main arguments for development of PAK-DA, large payload+long loiter time. Perfect.

    sorry.. "combat duty" i meant.
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:.........
    Does anyoene else get the impression that Russia will leave START once they have all thier new missiles ready for production?

    With these things in play they won't need to.

    I have doubts about the feectiveness of 1500-2000 nuclear weapos effectiveness at gauranteeing natos complete destruction.

    Also I believe Russia should implament a plolicy of complete anahilation of all life on the planet should Russias existance be threatened.

    That way the is no possibility for anyone to use a proxy,terrorist orginazation or rebellion to attack Russia and avoid retaliation.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:52 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:.................
    Nuclear powered cruise missiles Khruhschev would be proud.....

    That one is still in concept phase however Kinzhal is more than ready to go.

    I wonder if Kinzhal can fit into those Granit launch tubes? Can anyone clarify?


    The-thing-next-door wrote:.........
    Does anyoene else get the impression that Russia will leave START once they have all thier new missiles ready for production?

    With these things in play they won't need to.

    According to what I read of transcript, the nuclear powered cruise missiles has already been tested. Or at least it's engine/motor has. Kind of hard to tell by the translator.
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    medo

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  medo on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:18 pm

    Kinzhal is in experimental combat duty, what couls only mean, that Russian MoD already receive them in armament, but are not yet in full combat duty, but in process of trainings, tests and accepting in combat duty.

    Which plane will use them? I see Su-30SM and Su-34. They could carry one missile between engines and have radar and data link communications to effectively use them. RuNAVY Su-30SM armed with 2000 km range hypersonic kinzhal missile will be real headache for NATO navies.
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    auslander

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  auslander on Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:54 pm

    medo wrote:Kinzhal is in experimental combat duty, what couls only mean, that Russian MoD already receive them in armament, but are not yet in full combat duty, but in process of trainings, tests and accepting in combat duty.

    Which plane will use them? I see Su-30SM and Su-34. They could carry one missile between engines and have radar and data link communications to effectively use them. RuNAVY Su-30SM armed with 2000 km range hypersonic kinzhal missile will be real headache for NATO navies.

    It's more than a headache. A little something sent to me by a quite reliable friend. I do not know the source so I can not credit the source but it is not for sure either me or him.

    "Thursday, March 1, 2018
    It Is Official And It Is Over.

    While the whole Western media are shaking (incompetence will do this to one) in their boots from Vladimir Putin's address, where he demonstrated, among many things, new RS-28 Sarmat ballistic missile, behind that revolutionary weapon system, one was almost completely ignored by media. Again, "education" based on catch phrases (such as "nuclear weapon) will do this to one. By far most shocking (albeit inevitable) revelation was deployment of a new hyper-sonic missile Kinzhal (Dagger) to regular service with front line Air Force units in Southern Military District. Mig-31 carries this weapon, I am positive any SU-35 or SU-30SM or SU-34 will be able to do it too.

    The missile is... well, for the lack of better word, is stunning--it is M=10+ highly maneuverable missile with the range of 2000 kilometers. The naval warfare as we know it is over. Without any overly-dramatic emphasis--we are officially in new era. No, I repeat, NO, modern or perspective air-defense system deployed today by any NATO fleet can intercept even a single missile with such characteristics. The salvo of 5-6 of such missiles is a guaranteed destruction of any Carrier Battle Group.

    The mode of use of such weapon, especially since we know now that it is deployed (for now) in Southern Military District is very simple--the most likely missile drop spot by MiG-31s will be international waters of the Black Sea, thus closing off whole Eastern Mediterranean to any surface ship or group of ships. It also creates a massive no-go zone in the Pacific, where MiG-31s from Yelizovo will be able to patrol vast distances over the ocean. It is, though, remarkable that the current platform for Kinzhal is MiG-31--arguably the best interceptor in the history. Obviously, MiG-31's ability to reach very high supersonic speeds (in excess of M=3) is a key factor in the launch. But no matter what are the procedures for the launch of this terrifying weapon, the conclusions are simple:

    1. It moves aircraft carriers into the niche of pure power projection against weak and defenseless adversaries;
    2. It makes classic CBGs as main strike force against peer completely obsolete and useless, it also makes any surface combat ship defenseless regardless its air-defense capabilities.
    3. Sea Control and Sea Denial change their nature and merge. Those who have such weapon, or weapons, simply own vast spaces of the sea limited by the ranges of Kinzhal and its carriers.

    I don't want to sound dramatic and I knew that there were and are always surprises in Soviet/Russian weapons but today's revelations from the highest podium in Russia about Kinzhal were shocking. The balance of power just shifted dramatically, with it the naval warfare as we knew it is no more. It is OVER!"

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    Isos

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Isos on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:02 pm

    So Zirkon is total bullshit if they have Something with 2000km range and mach 10 speed.
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:11 pm

    Can the new wondwer weapon be fired by ships?

    As for the claimed speed and range is mach 10 and 2000 km even possible for a missile of that size?

    Also in the video the decent onto the target did not look that fast is it maybe just the final decent fase?

    I have no doubt that Russian missile development is the best on the planet but these specs seem ludicrous even for Russia.

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:12 pm

    The problem with Russia's military is still not going away. It does not have enough conventional platforms in numerous quantities to challenge the U.S/NATO.

    The U.S will eventually catch up with programs parallel to this that I'm sure are either in the works, or have been for a long time already and are just either months, or a year or 2 away from achieving similar capability. Then the question becomes not who has the technology but who can wield it better and that undoubtedly will go advantage U.S.

    This does buy Russia time to grow its economy in a considerable fashion...but it can not fail to do this. Russia will continue to get hounded, the new cold war is not going away and there is nothing Russia can do to change this, other than the collapse of the American economic empire.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:31 pm

    Isos wrote:So Zirkon is total bullshit if they have Something with 2000km range and mach 10 speed.

    Not really, ship missiles have to start from 0 km\h unlike aircraft missiles that start with much higher speeds and don't have to fight gravity on start.

    Kinzhal would need chunky extra stage to get it off the ship and up to desired speed. Also, Mach 8 is close enough to Mach 10.

    Probably why the opted for cheap tiny Karakurts as, so far, main future carriers of Zirkons.

    auslander wrote:...it is M=10+ highly maneuverable missile..

    M10=kinetic impactor. This will be changing land warfare quite a bit too methinks... thumbsup

    auslander wrote:....2. It makes classic CBGs as main strike force against peer completely obsolete and useless, it also makes any surface combat ship defenseless regardless its air-defense capabilities. ...

    Would explain very lax attitude of MoD towards construction and delivery schedule of surface vessels.
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    George1

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:48 pm

    Kinzhal is an air-launched complex, no relation with Zircon
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    gaurav

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  gaurav on Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:55 pm

    Today I am also active he he he Smile

    PapaDragon wrote:That one is still in concept phase however Kinzhal is more than ready to go.

    I wonder if Kinzhal can fit into those Granit launch tubes? Can anyone clarify?

    Thats what I am also thinking. That Kinzhal video showed multiple warheads detaching from Kinzhal .

    Kinzhal looks to be a multiple warhead missile with (scramjet aircraft technology ..Zvezda Strela..??).

    In the video Kinzhal took a KH-32 trajectory (medium -stratosphere and then semi dive on the target).
    BUt  ...  it did not dive directly on the target .. while approaching at enormous speeds ..
    it split into 3 warhead .. the 3 "darts"" then attacked the ABM systems of the ship from different directions.

    The difference between KH-32 and Kinzhal .. KH-32 single warhead ..hypersonic missile.
    Kinzhal multi warhead hypersonic aircraft ...

    This is damn sophisticated version . I mean if Calibre is AK -47 then Kinzhal is AK-15 ..
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:00 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:The problem with Russia's military is still not going away. It does not have enough conventional platforms in numerous quantities to challenge the U.S/NATO.

    The U.S will eventually catch up with programs parallel to this that I'm sure are either in the works, or have been for a long time already and are just either months, or a year or 2 away from achieving similar capability. Then the question becomes not who has the technology but who can wield it better and that undoubtedly will go advantage U.S.

    This does buy Russia time to grow its economy in a considerable fashion...but it can not fail to do this. Russia will continue to get hounded, the new cold war is not going away and there is nothing Russia can do to change this, other than the collapse of the American economic empire.

    America's economic empire is already becoming dire straights. Evident by the backlash from EU and the trade tariffs, as well as growing number of people trading in domestic currencies. After that, pop.

    The Russians have considerable amount of rockets and missiles, more than US in most cases. Excluding subsonic cruise missiles. US systems are of not same cost to Russia, and ultimately, they never will have defence against such missile. Much like Russia won't or China. It just another MAD guarantee.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:29 pm

    Isos wrote:So Zirkon is total bullshit if they have Something with 2000km range and mach 10 speed.

    Nope. Kindzal is ONLY airborne. Previously it was called GZUR . Doesn't ring the bell?


    It is mainly anti-ship (and CVSGs) weapons - so normal planes can attack the whole ship groups form safe distance. MiG-31 makes special sense here - it comes VERY quick and VERY high thus saving lots of energy for missile to expand the range. Beyong anything US fleet can field on CVSGs so far and in foreseeable future.








    PapaDragon wrote: Nuclear powered (yes, powered) cruise missile, unlimited range


    Not cruise missile but underwater drone ( called previously Status-6 Smile . IMHO MiG-31 because it flies on 20kms and with 3Ma can start ramjet without much energy thus missile flies fast and easy form this point.

    Previous name GZUR was to fir into Tu-22M3 bay (6) and Tu-160 (12 in 2x6 config) . Same as Kh-50 (stealth subsonic). Both were strictly airborne.

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    Isos

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:14 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Nuclear powered (yes, powered) cruise missile, unlimited range

    Srry my bad. Indeed this is nuclear powered cruise missile but not a hypersonic one. Anyway in less then 24 hours can reach any point of the world.


    Here is vid from MoD

    http://vote.mil.ru/vote/krnd.htm


    [youtube]Xr7alYwCznQ


    How are they using nuclear power for a missile ?
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    Cyberspec

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    'Kinzhal' missile complex

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:20 am

    The 'Kinzhal' could possibly be an air launched Iskander....I reckon the Su-34 should be able to carry it as well


    hoom

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  hoom on Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:12 am

    Yeah looks a lot like it.

    Obviously launching from a plane significantly improves range but would it make enough of a difference to bump range up from 500km all the way to the quoted 2000km?
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:51 am

    hoom wrote:Obviously launching from a plane significantly improves range but would it make enough of a difference to bump range up from 500km all the way to the quoted 2000km?

    I'm just guessing but the MiG-31's high top speed must play a role

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    Re: "Kinzhal" hypersonic aviation-missile complex

    Post  hoom on Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:45 pm

    I mean yeah it would make a big difference launching from ~20km & mach 2.5 but can Mig-31 go that sort of height/speed with one of these mounted? (and are supersonic missile launches a thing? Somewhere I've got the impression its very dangerous & mostly not done)

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