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    Dedicated anti-aircraft helicopters?

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    d_taddei2

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    Dedicated anti-aircraft helicopters?

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:36 pm

    In the past and still to this day some armed forces have a dedicated anti aircraft helicopters . Of course some helicopters come with an array of weapons including anti aircraft missiles along with rockets guns etc. What am talking about is a helicopter armed with one gun (30mm) and all pylons armed with anti aircraft missiles. The scenarios it could be used for a fairly wide from accompanying combat helicopters, transport helicopters, protecting convoys, scouting/helicopter/UAV hunting and base protection . Is this something that Russia could adopt or is the concept dead? A Russian ka-52 would be ideal for such task.
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    Isos

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    Re: Dedicated anti-aircraft helicopters?

    Post  Isos on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:59 pm

    Most of the time it will carry manpads for self defence. Air cover will be made by fighters.

    Russia rely more on air defence systems to protect its forces from those threats with tunguskas and shilkas.

    Helicopters are very good to attack ground vehicle so they should be used for that.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Dedicated anti-aircraft helicopters?

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:08 pm

    Isos wrote:Most of the time it will carry manpads for self defence. Air cover will be made by fighters.

    Russia rely more on air defence systems to protect its forces from those threats with tunguskas and shilkas.

    Helicopters are very good to attack ground vehicle so they should be used for that.

    Shilka and Tunguska are not designed for scouting or hunting UAV or helicopters and obviously lack mobility compared to a helicopter and and not suggesting that all helicopters are configured to this and I am not disputing helicopters effectiveness as ground attack role.

    I actually think it wouldn't hurt to have 2-3 ka-52 armed in this manner as a QRF for base defence against UAV once detected helicopters deploy destroying UAV before they even reach base air defence systems it just adds another layer. Of if troops on the ground keep reporting drones in the area send helicopters out to hunt them down and destroy or the same roles could be applied to the Yak -130 2-3 stationed at base waiting for the call the Yak of course has the added advantage of speed and agility arm it with handful of missiles and guns and your sorted the guns themselves would do most of the destroying and an unarmed UAV could easily be flipped by yak -130 wings if it really needed to.
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    Isos

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    Re: Dedicated anti-aircraft helicopters?

    Post  Isos on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:40 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Isos wrote:Most of the time it will carry manpads for self defence. Air cover will be made by fighters.

    Russia rely more on air defence systems to protect its forces from those threats with tunguskas and shilkas.

    Helicopters are very good to attack ground vehicle so they should be used for that.

    Shilka and Tunguska are not designed for scouting or hunting UAV or helicopters and obviously lack mobility compared to a helicopter and and not suggesting that all helicopters are configured to this and I am not disputing helicopters effectiveness as ground attack role.

    I actually think it wouldn't hurt to have 2-3 ka-52 armed in this manner as a QRF for base defence against UAV once detected helicopters deploy destroying UAV before they even reach base air defence systems it just adds another layer. Of if troops on the ground keep reporting drones in the area send helicopters out to hunt them down and destroy or the same roles could be applied to the Yak -130 2-3 stationed at base waiting for the call the Yak of course has the added advantage of speed and agility arm it with handful of missiles and guns and your sorted the guns themselves would do most of the destroying and an unarmed UAV could easily be flipped by yak -130 wings if it really needed to.  

    It depends what drones. Shilka and tunguska are good for protecting troops, they are not meant to hunt.

    If you are talking about military drones, most of them will fly higher than the helicopter, and will be destroyed by modern fighters.

    Small drones will be more easily detected from the ground and destroyed by passive EW or enegry weapons. Yak-130 can do the job but they already have lot of interceptors (mig, sukhoi ...) for that. The war in syria proved that most of the time infantry detect those small drones first and they are deal with with small arms or cheap missiles. It isalready discussed on other threads.

    Firing with a 30 mm gun from a helicopter or a fighter is not the best way to destroy them. They will be practicaly invisible and their small size will force you to fire lot of rounds before you hit it. If you hit it with your plane it can destroy your engines and destroy the plane, can be even equiped with explosives specially to destroy your plane.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Dedicated anti-aircraft helicopters?

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:10 am

    Actually the Soviets used Hinds for interception in the past... Rust ring a bell?

    The PVO detected Rust and MiG-23s went to intercept the unknown target... when they discovered it was a civilian cessna they reported this fact and the interception task was handed to the local authorities because a MiG-23 could either shoot it down or do nothing because of the speed difference...

    Rust never even knew the MiGs intercepted him... but by the time the Hinds were launched and found him he had already landed.

    Hinds were sent because they matched the airspeed of a cessna and would have been able to force him to land with warning shots and hand signals etc.

    The problem was that without a radar they had to be talked to where the cessna was.

    Modern attack helos don't have intercept radar either.

    For the cost and low speed of a helo used in the air intercept role it would be much easier and cheaper to have a MiG-29M2 flying at 10,000m altitude with 8 x R-77 missiles that can hit hovering helos from quite a distance... the MiG could see targets great distances away and rapidly engage them with little risk to itself.

    Attack helos have AAMs purely as self defence and most of the time operationally they would not even use them.

    The only real factor that even makes such aircraft interesting would be a swarm UAV attack, because R-77s are not cheap and there could be more than 8 targets.

    In such a case a helo is still to slow and would not cover ground very quickly.

    I would be looking at Su-25SM aircraft, preferably with an Ugroza upgrade with laser beam homing 80mm rockets, or perhaps two stage laser beam riding rockets.

    Four pods per wing means each aircraft could carry 160 UAV killers, plus gun.

    In fact I would go for three pods under each wing and one EW jammer pod so you could fly to within 2km or so of the target and blast their electronics with a high energy beam and melt them.

    The Su-25 is fast enough but also very manouverable.

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