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    Russian anti drone swarm weapons

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    The-thing-next-door

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    Russian anti drone swarm weapons

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 pm

    Swarm drones are chaep simple and easy to produce while requiring verly litle technical skill or knowlege to create as such we will likely see them being widely deployed by terrorist organizations around the would. This is rather problematic as current weapon systems are ill suited to dealing with a large amount of targets simultaniosly.

    So far I have heard that Russia will create a smaller missile to be mounted on the Pantsir air defence system.

    Tingsay

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    Re: Russian anti drone swarm weapons

    Post  Tingsay on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:54 pm

    Yeah, they have the Pantsir -SM to deal with that in the future. The missiles on the current Pantsir is too expensive for some of the drones .

    They can send the new Derivatsiya-PVO 57mm anti-aircraft artillery system to Syria right now for testing if they like.

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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Russian anti drone swarm weapons

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:05 pm

    Tingsay wrote:Yeah, they have the Pantsir -SM to deal with that in the future. The missiles on the current Pantsir is too expensive for some of the drones .

    They can send the new Derivatsiya-PVO 57mm anti-aircraft artillery system to Syria right now for testing if they like.


    If they do go for 57mm then I would suggest to equip it with both proximity HE shells and APFSDS then it would be an effective platform for killing a wide variety both air and ground targets.

    Any insight into how widely deployed anti drone weapons will be deployed or what priority thier deployment will be given?

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    Re: Russian anti drone swarm weapons

    Post  Tingsay on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:43 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    If they do go for 57mm then I would suggest to equip it with both proximity HE shells and APFSDS then it would be an effective platform for killing a wide variety both air and ground targets.

    Any insight into how widely deployed anti drone weapons will be deployed or what priority thier deployment will be given?

    Well, as far as I'm aware, there is no rush to deploy anti drone swarm weapons right now. The attacks in Syria are quite recent so they may speed things up a bit in the coming years. The Pantsirs right now do a fine job all things considered, just not very cost-effective. That's only true against dirt-cheap drones though, some drones justify more expensive missiles obviously.

    Overall, I dont see this as a major concern.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian anti drone swarm weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:43 am

    Actually swarm drones are not that simple... they need to be able to operate together in a group but not get in each others way... they need to be smart enough to get a job done but dumb enough to be cheap and disposable.

    To be effective they will need a flight range of more than 100km otherwise their launch systems could easily be destroyed before they launch their payloads.

    The Pantsir is getting a new missile developed that has four mini missiles per launch tube to engage swarm threats... that means each vehicle will have 12 x 4 missiles ready to fire so a battery of 8 vehicles will have 8 x 12 x 4 missiles = so each battery could have up to 384 missiles ready to fire... that is a lot.

    More importantly a few vehicles armed with 57mm guns with AHEAD like air burst rounds could seriously deplete any large scale attack very rapidly as each shell could scatter fragments over a 5m radius very rapidly and even minor damage would break a light UAV and bring it down.

    Add to that EM pulse weapons that simply fry the little brains of the UAVs and of course the 2,500km range AESA radars located at every S-400 battery site could also generate a microwave signal beam powerful enough to cook a rabbit could also be used to blunt an attack... I think the Russians will be more ready than anyone else.

    In fact i suspect the whole concept might backfire on the west because it is the Chinese and Russians that are in the best position to produce large numbers of small smart but still relatively cheap UCAVs for attacks on expensive but not well defended western equipment based all around the world...


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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: Russian anti drone swarm weapons

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:Actually swarm drones are not that simple... they need to be able to operate together in a group but not get in each others way... they need to be smart enough to get  a job done but dumb enough to be cheap and disposable.

    To be effective they will need a flight range of more than 100km otherwise their launch systems could easily be destroyed before they launch their payloads.

    The Pantsir is getting a new missile developed that has four mini missiles per launch tube to engage swarm threats... that means each vehicle will have 12 x 4 missiles ready to fire so a battery of 8 vehicles will have 8 x 12 x 4 missiles = so each battery could have up to 384 missiles ready to fire... that is a lot.

    More importantly a few vehicles armed with 57mm guns with AHEAD like air burst rounds could seriously deplete any large scale attack very rapidly as each shell could scatter fragments over a 5m radius very rapidly and even minor damage would break a light UAV and bring it down.

    Add to that EM pulse weapons that simply fry the little brains of the UAVs and of course the 2,500km range AESA radars located at every S-400 battery site could also generate a microwave signal beam powerful enough to cook a rabbit could also be used to blunt an attack... I think the Russians will be more ready than anyone else.

    In fact i suspect the whole concept might backfire on the west because it is the Chinese and Russians that are in the best position to produce large numbers of small smart but still relatively cheap UCAVs for attacks on expensive but not well defended western equipment based all around the world...

    Electronic warfare ins definitely the way to go in my opinion but swarm missiles are good too and if you combine that with almost every Russian tank and IFV will be able to shoot them down the Russian army should be quite well defended.

    You could also turn the enemy drones against their owners.

    About EM weapons will Russia maybe upgrade short range AD systems to be able to fry small drones?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian anti drone swarm weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:07 am

    I am sure they could adapt the large powerful AESA radars they are developing for their medium to long range SAMs to generate powerful beams to damage electronic components fairly easily...


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