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    Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:28 pm

    Truck wrote:
    Give source for the contrary. Give source for the decommission of B-138 Obninsk and B-414 Daniil Moskovskiy.
    do you know how many years these 2 ships are in reserve?

    Truck wrote:.
    Disaster because you have been unable of reproducing right the past and of recognizing your mistakes. Do you think only Eehnie would catch your mistakes?

    Υes i forgot how many users have put him in their ignore list.. Because he was accurate when he was saying from 2015 that Russia will build aircraft carriers in this State armaments program...And you see now that we are in mid of 2019 how accurate he was..and how many times he has recognized all these fantasies he says

    Truck wrote:
    Lazarev and Tambov can be modernized, and should be, at their turn.
    and who said that "CAN BE"? You? You know better than Ministry of Defence?
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:06 pm

    Both the Obninsk, Tambov and the Moskovskiy.

    are still in the fleet however they long since stopped trying to modernize them citing "Due to the exhaustion of the modernization potential of the project".

    They will all be retired by 2025, Russia hardly uses them anymore has is.


    Has for Lazarov, this topic is getting old. They have said OVER AND OVER they are not modernizing it the only ones are Peter the great and Naki, GET OVER IT. IT'S NOT HAPPENING.



    Tambov "could be" modernized only if they poured a huge sum of money with work that would carry on for years and years since they would need to rip the entire thing up to replace everything. For a submarine that would be subpar and with a short life span.

    The Russians looked at this and decided the sheer cost and time verse what it offered was in NO WAY worth it.

    You guys need to move on from those relics, get new and better subs stop trying to keep crappy ones alive.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:21 pm

    Gazputin wrote:yeah read that …
    Ivan Gren … was designed by a committee … its a crazy design … but I get why the big crane was in the middle of the ship re stability
    question is …. why do you need the crane anyway ? …. primitive ports etc ?? nfi

    which was designed in late 80s right? then it wasn't bad at all.  

    GP wrote:anyway they are made at Yantar
    so I looked up their website and they can make ships up to 150-160 m long and 25-26m wide … max

    УДК "Прибой" - характеристики:

    Водоизмещение - около 14000 т
    Длина - 165 м
    Ширина - 25 м
    Осадка - 5 м

    which is pretty close to Priboy proposed size...




    LMFS wrote:
    Is strange to talk about an 'helicopter carrier' because of several reasons:

    - First, a newer vessel of a newer class (and more in the size of a LHD) would need many years to be approved developed and built. 2024 is simply too close and we have heard nothing until now about concrete building plans for helo carriers

    Priboy was mentioned in 2015 for the first time ?


    LMFS wrote:
    - Turning Ivan Gren into a LHD? Sorry? What would be used of the original ship? It makes no sense to do this, the deck would be different, the size too, the bay would be completely different due to hangars and completely different layout of the superstructure. In fact, the Gren is an old vessel with an unimpressive hull that has already been put down for not so good sea-keeping They have just patented a newer hull type which would be ideal for a LHD

    Tu-22M was developed from Tu-22 right?  lol1  lol1  lol1


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:44 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Russians looked at this and decided the sheer cost and time verse what it offered was in NO WAY worth it.

    You guys need to move on from those relics, get new and better subs stop trying to keep crappy ones alive.



    The decision about scrapping 5 large nuclear powered ships is is logical and an good one. Why to keep old extremely expensive and non unified ships if with same or smaller amount of resources you can build better, newer ships?


    PtG modernization was from 30-50Bns Rub + 4 years. In 2012. So it might be even higher. Lider shall cost ~100Bns Rubles and 6-7 years to build?
    Sme with subs better to build more Huskies Laikas then moderinze old subs

    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:08 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Russians looked at this and decided the sheer cost and time verse what it offered was in NO WAY worth it.

    You guys need to move on from those relics, get new and better subs stop trying to keep crappy ones alive.



    The decision about scrapping 5 large nuclear powered ships is is logical and an good one. Why to keep old extremely expensive and non unified ships if with same or smaller amount of resources you can build better, newer ships?


    PtG modernization was from 30-50Bns Rub + 4 years. In 2012. So it might be even higher.  Lider shall cost ~100Bns Rubles and 6-7 years to build?
    Sme with subs better to build more Huskies Laikas then moderinze old subs

    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont

    Oh the Naki modernization so far is way more then what they said the original cost is at this point it may be just as expensive for them to build a lider, but you know they need the ships now so hey.

    The Subs, I can see a few of the Akula's sure, heck I can even see the logic for the Oscar's but the Sierra's no, even the guys who operate those subs said there is no point. I don't see why people on here argue about keeping them in service.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:25 pm


    Akulas, Oscars and Deltas that are currently in use will get to serve out their remaining time, everything else gets the scrapper

    They have been more then clear about it

    Two Kirovs are DEFINITELY getting scrapped, only person still in denial about it eehenie Truck
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    Post  Gazputin on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:38 am

    Kirov cruisers will be replaced by SSGNs … submersible guided missile "cruisers" as the Russians call them …
    … as usual with Russians … total pragmatists
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:59 am

    Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:14 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!

    Because those 2 are in decent condition and scraping them would be wasteful

    Other 2 are in disastrous condition and spending time and money on them would be wasteful


    It's always about same two things: time and money



    And who the hell could they sell them to?

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:16 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote: The Subs, I can see a few of the Akula's sure, heck I can even see the logic for the Oscar's but the Sierra's no, even the guys who operate those subs said there is no point. I don't see why people on here argue about keeping them in service.


    the first reaction for refurbishing/modernization news as far as I member was: whaat? why to put money to old designs not to build new ones?  Looks like folks dont like changes lol1 lol1 lol1



    Gazputin wrote:Kirov cruisers will be replaced by SSGNs … submersible guided missile "cruisers" as the Russians call them …
    … as usual with Russians … total pragmatists

    meh, Liders. They look like cruisers, displace like cruisers and carry more missiles then Kirovs but make no mistake: why are destroyers lol1 lol1 lol1


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:18 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!

    Because those 2 are in decent condition and scraping them would be wasteful


    you need to have some capital ships until bunch of Liders pops up. Modernization of each Kirov would be like cost on Lider, only then you get old ship with smaller capabilities.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:27 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!

    Because then they would have no capital ships in surface fleet at all almost. They would join naval powers like Peru and Mexico lol1 And they are scrapping other Kirovs coz they have issues that are too expencive to overcome for modernisation to be logical. Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:29 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Then why keep 2 of them still? They could mothball/sell them & build 2-3 more SSGNs instead! U need to have the right tool for the job!

    Because those 2 are in decent condition and scraping them would be wasteful

    Other 2 are in disastrous condition and spending time and money on them would be wasteful


    It's always about same two things: time and money



    And who the hell could they sell them to?


    Noone in the right mind would pay for 2 huge rust buckets with leaky reactors tbh. I would pay maybe actually, to gift them to Croatian navy...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:04 am

    Militarov wrote:Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.

    Adm Ushakov has a damaged reactor, not Lazarev.
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    Post  Truck on Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:03 am

    B-138 Obninsk Victor III class submarine navigating in 2017 (according to George1 in the previous page implicitly decommisssioned, according to George1 in this page after learning but not enough, implicitly in the reserve since years):
    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 36 225954
    Officially reported by the Russian Navy on 23 June 2017 like performing training and combat tasks.
    pwnd pwnd pwnd
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:42 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.

    Adm Ushakov has a damaged reactor, not Lazarev.

    This is correct, Lazarev hull is just in a way to bad shape, they went inside of the ship to evaluate if it could be done or was worth it in the end they found the hull was just to far gone for them to bother with it.

    They have then since written it off.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:09 am

    Well I think the news of two Kirovs being scrapped is good, because it clearly means the other two will almost certainly get minor upgrades and continue in service until there are replacements.

    Sure, people will whine about how they wont have the fire power of a brand new ship that is actually smaller and lighter, but that is not actually the point.

    The two remaining Kirovs have the fire power to make any opponent think twice and with the 20 Granits replaced with 80 missile tubes for a range of land attack and subsonic, supersonic, and hypersonic anti ship missiles then it will be even more formidable... if they can upgrade the SAM missile battery to newer more modern weapons that would be good, but even the original SAM defences were formidable anyway...

    The best thing is that it shows they are committed to a blue water navy, that they are clearly going to start building bigger ships to eventually replace the scrapped Kirovs, but they are not going to throw money away when it doesn't make sense for them to... that last factor means they are head and shoulders in a better place than the US Navy.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:28 pm

    Kuznetsov and Sovs are small players compare to this one hahaha

    Smetlivy is making clouds hahaha lol1

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1121473338117885952

    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 36 D5bgca10
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    Post  Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:11 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Lazarev is nuclear disaster waiting to happen apparently.

    Adm Ushakov has a damaged reactor, not Lazarev.

    My bad you are right on that one.
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    Post  dino00 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:17 pm

    "Gadfly" for pride: the Navy modernizes small rocket ships
    IRA project 12341 Soviet-built remain in the ranks


    Aleksey Ramm Bogdan Stepovoy


    The Navy adopted a program for the return to service of small rocket ships (MRK) Ovod , told Izvestia at the Main Command of the Navy. In the course of work at the ISCs, they will replace engines, radio electronics and install modern weapons . Formally, the ISCs are ships of the coastal zone, but earlier they even went successfully to the Mediterranean and South China Seas. Updated and re-armed "Gadfly" will be able to deliver rocket attacks on a potential enemy no worse than destroyers or frigates .

    Repair to complete
    Modernization of the project 12341 "Gadfly" will affect almost all the key systems of the ship , explained in the Main Command of the Navy. RTOs will install modern fire control systems, radar stations, communication systems, more efficient weaponry, as well as more economical and powerful diesel engines .

    The “gadflies” that have undergone modernization will be reequipped with Kh-35 missiles - these are subsonic low-altitude munitions with active homing , equipped with high-explosive fragmentation warhead, a source in the Defense Ministry told Izvestia. These missiles are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 260 km .

    HELP "IZVESTIA"
    Now the Navy includes 12 small rocket ships of the project 12341 "Gadfly". At the Baltic Fleet, they are consolidated into the 36th brigade of missile boats, which include the Zyb, Geyser, Passat and Downpour. In the 41st brigade of the Black Sea Fleet - "Mirage" and "Shtil". In the Northern Fleet in the 7th Brigade of the Protection of the Water Area (OVR) bear the service "Iceberg" and "Rassvet". In the Pacific Fleet, the "Gadflies" are consolidated into the 114th IAD. There are collected "Smerch", "Frost", "Frost" and "Spill." The existing ships became part of the fleet from 1986 to 1992, with the exception of “Calm” and “Iceberg”, built earlier - in the late 1970s.

    Work on the modernization of "Gadfly" has already begun . In April of this year, Kingisepp Machine-Building Plant completed the repair of the main engine compartment of the Rassvet MRK. At the end of 2018, Iceberg and Geyser engines were put in order there. In Kamchatka, Smerch MRK is currently under repair. The Zyb IRC of the Baltic Fleet, which has long been unmanaged, is waiting for a major overhaul of the main engine at the 33rd ship repair yard.


    ...
    In the hull of the ship with a displacement of about 700 tons, it was possible to place a full-fledged set of weapons. “Gadflies” with a length of 57 m and a width of 12 m received two launchers for six Malachite anti-ship missiles, the Titanit target radar system, electronic warfare equipment, the Osa-M anti-aircraft missile system and one AK-176 caliber artillery unit 76 mm, or two AK-725 caliber 57 mm.

    ...
    “For the Algerian Navy, three such RTOs were modernized at Russian shipyards,” Dmitry Boltenkov told Izvestia. - They received updated electronics and engines, and were also re-equipped with X-35 anti-ship missiles. This experience is useful in the future. After upgrading, domestic Vodov can get four launchers, each of which is capable of simultaneously launching four missiles. This increased the ship's volley from six to 16 rounds of ammunition

    In theory, Onyx anti-ship missiles can be installed on the ISCs. In 1982, one “Gadfly” of project 1234.7 was developed and built for testing these missiles

    https://iz.ru/872211/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/ovod-dlia-gordosti-vmf-moderniziruet-malye-raketnye-korabli

    Navy is going for numbers, kh-35 is good, but Onix will be great.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:10 am

    Kh-35 is for saturating adverse air defence. 16 per ship is a huge amount.

    And as they will support bigger ships equiped with uksk, they will fire first so that enemy use most of its long range missiles against them and supersonic missiles will come in a second wave to destroy what is left and face only short range missiles which have no chance to hit them.

    Pretty good and cheap move to increase anti ship weaponery. Better than Bal-E anyway.


    I wonder if they will go for Tor as a replacement of outdated Osa.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:02 am


    New naval base in Novorosiysk will be completed by the end of the year but it looks like it's already up and running.

    Bykov patrol ships and Kilo subs have recently been stationed there. This is their home base. Buyans will probably be operating from there as well.

    More photos in link:

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/119487/

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    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:52 am

    New naval base in Novorosiysk will be completed by the end of the year but it looks like it's already up and running.

    Wow, I was aware of modernization of Kaspian sea base, but not this one. Do you have any extra info?

    It looks like Novorossiysk is a secondary base in Black sea, after Sevastopol. In case main base gets a hit or is cut off, they have an alternative. Plus protection of Russian mainland in the Krasnodar region and patrolling base for eastern Black sea.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:03 am

    Russian Navy: Status & News #4 - Page 36 000140
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    Post  Hole on Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:04 am

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