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    Russian Navy: Status & News #4

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

    Regarding Airships....

    http://rosaerosystems.com/atlant/obj858

    Comes in versions with capacities up to 170 tons... now imagine a version with a small nuclear power plant for generating electricity... electric drive motor propulsion, and of course a hydrogen fuel cell able to convert hydrogen gas into water and back so no need to dump ballast except in an emergency...

    You could build in enormous radar antenna within the structure, with a hook and tow cable that could be attached to the rear of a frigate or destroyer, or it could land on the sea surface when not operating... you could operate 2 or 3 with a surface action group and have them operating at very high altitudes with enormous radar antennas and unlimited flight ranges...

    Have read about designs able to carry thousands of tons, like complete turbines for hydro electric dams.... the airship can fly to the factory that built the turbine and pick it up and deliver it to the dam directly... no breaking it down into smaller parts, no transfers from truck to ship and back onto truck... no problems with winding narrow roads... or no roads... or nearby harbours or airfields...

    Made of modern materials it can be light weight and strong, and very fire resistant... while the use of hydrogen does introduce an element of fire risk that can be reduced with nitrogen purging of the internal envelope and the advantage of using the Hydrogen fuel cell to create lift or ballast is enormously valuable.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Hole on Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:21 am

    Sould be a dedicated ship, not a destroyer. A large airship flying a few hundred metres above the water would be a large target and give away the destroyer and maybe the position of other ship in the task force.

    A normal freighter could be used. Flying high enough, with a big radar, the airship could locate targets 800 or 1000km away. The task force could keep a distance of a few hundred kilometres and still be good informed.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Hole on Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:26 pm

    New torpedo Fisik-1 has been delivered to naval units, according to Sputnik and Zvezda.

    Length: 7,2m
    Mass: 2.200kg
    Warhead: 300kg
    Range: 50km
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    LMFS

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  LMFS on Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:04 pm

    Hole wrote:Sould be a dedicated ship, not a destroyer. A large airship flying a few hundred metres above the water would be a large target and give away the destroyer and maybe the position of other ship in the task force.

    A normal freighter could be used. Flying high enough, with a big radar, the airship could locate targets 800 or 1000km away. The task force could keep a distance of a few hundred kilometres and still be good informed.
    I think the issue would be rather how to protect it from attacks or bad weather, being so big. Surface groups are continuously monitored and cannot expect to "hide" anywhere. Russia for instance has the Legend system for that purpose. And then you have subs, OTH and so many other ways of detecting and tracking those big vessels!
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Hole on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:37 am

    Or a really big airship operating alone. There were plans for massive ones carrying 500 tons or more. Such a flying whale could carry a big radar plus ELINT/SIGINT systems. And you could add some Pantsir systems for self defense.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:59 pm

    NATO is storming the coast of Norway, Russia conducts missile firing

    Why corvettes of the Russian Navy is accompanied by a tug?

    Russia’s naval construction program continues to suffer from multiple problems, including the shortage or obsolesce of Russian shipbuilding facilities, financial and management problems, as well as technological flaws and lack of access to foreign components—notably Ukrainian-made engines. As a result, a serious gap exists between planned and expected warships. Up to 2020, Russia is likely to operate 5 out of 20 new nuclear submarines, 9 of 20 frigates, 4 of 14 small missile ships, 16–18 out of 41 corvettes and patrol ships, 1 of 6 amphibious ships, 2 minesweepers, and 14 out of 14 fast boats. Such limited numbers of new ocean-going vessels, problems with modernizing older ships (Vz.ru, February 26, 2018), along with reductions to military expenditures (Wek.ru, March 27) may compel Moscow to postpone its blue-water ambitions. https://jamestown.org/program/russias-shipbuilding-program-postponed-blue-water-ambitions/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:16 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Kimppis on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:32 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Up to 2020, Russia is likely to operate 5 out of 20 new nuclear submarines, 4 of 14 small missile ships



    Their overall conclusion is probably quite accurate (that the "blue water ambitions" will be delayed, for the most part), but how did they come up with those numbers!? That is some BS. Or am I missing something? I haven't been "watching" RuN very closely recently...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:09 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Up to 2020, Russia is likely to operate 5 out of 20 new nuclear submarines, 4 of 14 small missile ships

    I am not saying that surface fleet isn't a joke but this part about submarines it complete BS.

    2020 is less than 2 years away. It takes over a year to build nuclear submarine. So what are they trying to say here?

    And where did they get those ''target'' numbers anyway?
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:46 pm

    He's not saying that they were all supposed to be built by 2020; I guess the #s r taken from the State Armaments Program.
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Kimppis on Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:51 pm

    Oh damn, I actually totally missed the "new" part. But yeah, I think the original plan was: 8 (Borei) + 7 (Yasen) = 15 new nuclear subs by the end 2020, not 20? (Russia has around 20 SSNs and SSGNs in total.) And anyway to just list the new ones is misleading, modernized older boats are also going to be fine at least until the early-to-mid 2030s.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:22 pm

    Still, there r more than 1 kind of a "blue water navy". The VMF is still mostly coastal & green water navy in the 7 closed/semi closed seas (out of 13) around the RF, with some global reach, as far as its surface ships r concerned.
    With bigger icebreakers for round-year Arctic navigation, it'll be "white water navy" for the remaining 6 seas there.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:39 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Up to 2020, Russia is likely to operate 5 out of 20 new nuclear submarines, 4 of 14 small missile ships

    I am not saying that surface fleet isn't a joke but this part about submarines it complete BS.

    2020 is less than 2 years away. It takes over a year to build nuclear submarine. So what are they trying to say here?

    And where did they get those ''target'' numbers anyway?

    There are 3 Borei A laid down in 2014/2015 that are expected to enter service in 2019/2020 which is possible since first borei A needed 5 years for its construction. Last laid down was in 2016 and is expected to enter service in 2021.

    Same for Yasen 5 laid down, two are expected to enter service by 2020 and the 3 other after.


    So it is 5 new subs to be put into service by 2020.

    In all there are 5 yasen and 5 borei in construction which is 10 nuclear sub + those being upgraded +the ones already in service should make 20 nuclear subs. Those upgraded are not new however or won't be finished by 2020.

    Wiki is my source.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:49 pm

    Russia tests new methods of warship-aircraft interoperability in Mediterranean drills
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:38 pm

    An Tu-142 flew over the NATO ships in Norway.


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:11 am

    Not 1, but 2 of them: https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/two-russian-long-range-tu-142-planes-fly-over-nato-drills/

    Also, Russia’s largest nuclear missile-cruiser sails for Barents Sea combat training On Saturday, “Pyotr Velikiy” sailed out to the Barents Sea to exercise together with the air force and air defense.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:42 am

    Sould be a dedicated ship, not a destroyer. A large airship flying a few hundred metres above the water would be a large target and give away the destroyer and maybe the position of other ship in the task force.

    Actually I would say it would depend on the design... a smaller type should have a dedicated support vessel but you really don't want it to be a civilian vessel... a destroyer type would be best as it could defend itself... worst case scenario it could jettison the blimp, but I see no reason why it could not release the airship to fly to any height you wanted... it would certainly never be operating a few hundred metres above anything... a 5km minimum operating height...

    A big nuclear powered 170 ton payload airship and it could attack to a major ship but would actually operate most of the time on its own and at very extreme heights.

    It could securely transmit data via directional microwave beam to ships and aircraft.

    The fact is that any AWACS platform will give away its position simply by scanning the air space with radar... it needs to do that simply to do its job, but it really only tells you there is an airship there... it is operating with a single corvette, or an entire carrier task force... or is it on its own on its way to meet up with a carrier group?

    It could have its own weather radar and easily avoid storms by flying around them or over them... there are no storms at 20km altitude...

    A normal freighter could be used. Flying high enough, with a big radar, the airship could locate targets 800 or 1000km away. The task force could keep a distance of a few hundred kilometres and still be good informed.

    A big airship size could operate above the weather and provide target information for enormous distances around the surface group...

    I think the issue would be rather how to protect it from attacks or bad weather, being so big. Surface groups are continuously monitored and cannot expect to "hide" anywhere. Russia for instance has the Legend system for that purpose. And then you have subs, OTH and so many other ways of detecting and tracking those big vessels!

    Having it operate at 20-30km altitude makes it pretty safe from most things and also protects it from the weather... there are no storms at that altitude.

    Carrier groups are unlikely to be invisible, but protecting that carrier group and for the carrier commander to operate that carrier group he needs good information on everything in the air space and sea surface around the area he is operating.., this airship can at least provide 24/7 coverage of the air space around his carrier group... perhaps out to 1,000s of kms... what is not to like?

    Even if you managed to get close to such an airship and hit it with a Phoenix AAM it wont damage enough internal air bags to destroy the airship... the loss of lift would make it descend but at that altitude nothing would burn properly... not enough oxygen for a start and the materials would be non flammable materials like carbon fibre and nomex.

    Or a really big airship operating alone. There were plans for massive ones carrying 500 tons or more. Such a flying whale could carry a big radar plus ELINT/SIGINT systems. And you could add some Pantsir systems for self defense.

    There is enormous potential...

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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:26 am

    Biggest plus is that the can stay in the air for weeks. In a few years even month. Even if they are slow and vulnerable in wartime, during peaceful times they could ease the workload of AWACS/recon planes.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:59 pm

    Western media: underwater hunting of Russia and NATO launched off the coast of Norway
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:10 am

    An airship can be just as fast as most ships, so it is not a huge issue... but the payoff is the ability to hover over a carrier group for months at a time without refuelling or taking up deck space on a carrier, yet potentially having enormous volume for radar antenna of all types... you could even drop a 2km long cable for ULF communications with submarines.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:20 am

    And ease pinpointing a carrier group's location. I don't think airships & CBGs mix well, otherwise the USN & RFN would have worked on it by now.

    slasher

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  slasher on Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:06 pm

    Wow... this guy really just lays it all bare! affraid
    To say he paints a gloomy picture is waaaay more than putting it nicely.

    Fleet without ships. Russian Navy on the verge of collapse

    Excellent, raw and informative. He really spells it out as it is and holds back no punches. This is the sort of analysis those in authority need to urgently take heed of pronto and chart a requisite path forward. One thing is for sure; the navy cannot in the foreseeable future even hope to match its adversaries pound for pound. Imaginative and innovative strategies to defend the country in the sea theatre must be urgently developed, thinking outside the box as they say. For the years to come, Russia must completely redefine the role of its navy, by sheer necessity alone, and adopt unconventional, asymmetrical means of operating in this theatre. That may certainly prove impossible for a stubbornly conservative establishment that might be unable to adapt to changed realities.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 pm

    slasher wrote:Wow... this guy really just lays it all bare! affraid
    To say he paints a gloomy picture is waaaay more than putting it nicely.

    Fleet without ships. Russian Navy on the verge of collapse
    .............


    Is this honestly a surprise to anyone? Suspect
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:07 am

    One thing is for sure; the navy cannot in the foreseeable future even hope to match its adversaries pound for pound.
    They know it & don't even try to do that! Being #2 is a step below #1.
    As Suvorov said: not with #s, but with ability!


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:38 am

    slasher wrote:Wow... this guy really just lays it all bare! affraid
    To say he paints a gloomy picture is waaaay more than putting it nicely.

    Fleet without ships. Russian Navy on the verge of collapse

    Excellent, raw and informative. He really spells it out as it is and holds back no punches. This is the sort of analysis those in authority need to urgently take heed of pronto and chart a requisite path forward. One thing is for sure; the navy cannot in the foreseeable future even hope to match its adversaries pound for pound. Imaginative and innovative strategies to defend the country in the sea theatre must be urgently developed, thinking outside the box as they say. For the years to come, Russia must completely redefine the role of its navy, by sheer necessity alone, and adopt unconventional, asymmetrical means of operating in this theatre. That may certainly prove impossible for a stubbornly conservative establishment that might be unable to adapt to changed realities.

    What an exercise in paid-for fuktardishness and 5th-column bias & disinfo. Excellent, raw and informative?? His paymasters (Atlantic Council perhaps) will no doubt be pleased with what their coin has purchased... Suspect

    I could spend an hour writing a response to this steaming pile of agenda-driven dog shit, but quite frankly I lack the interest. Muppets like this icking fudiot are paid to write this trash, and I'm not going do him the great honor of responding any further than the contempt I have already displayed.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #4

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:19 pm

    and that attitude is the problem, the article makes some fair and accurate points and is right on things, in some areas its wrong.

    But of course it's all "BS" because it states facts about the Russian navy, The fact is they are being choked on capable blue water surface ships and there is no real production going on for them in the foreseeable future all production has stalled regarding these types of ships but hey dismiss the truth because you don't like it.

    That exactly how you solve problems by pretending they aren't there~

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