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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

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    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:49 pm

    George1 wrote:
    - The production of light multi-purpose aircraft Diamond 42 will be set up at the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA), VCS will receive them for initial flight training.
    I thought the initial training aircraft would be the Yak-152.
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    George1

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:58 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    - The production of light multi-purpose aircraft Diamond 42 will be set up at the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA), VCS will receive them for initial flight training.
    I thought the initial training aircraft would be the Yak-152.

    i thought the same


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    franco

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  franco on Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:56 am

    George1 wrote:
    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    - The production of light multi-purpose aircraft Diamond 42 will be set up at the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA), VCS will receive them for initial flight training.
    I thought the initial training aircraft would be the Yak-152.

    i thought the same

    What is the Diamond Wink

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:07 am

    franco wrote:
    What is the Diamond Wink
    An Austrian light aircraft:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_DA42
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    franco

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  franco on Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:12 am

    It's a foreign aircraft so don't see that. Suspect they are calling the Yak-152 a Diamond.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:00 am

    Well, apparently Russia ordered some.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:38 am

    English Wiki says two for FSB a few years back, but RU Wiki has nothing other than saying some parts manufactured in Russia for it.

    Looks versatile though, plus twin engine reliability... still hope they're going with Yak-152.

    EDIT: Also, about that 2500 man VDV exercise mentioned earlier

    Warning, highly pornographic, avert eyes of young impressionable minds:
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:48 am

    Don't be stupid. Of course they are going for Yak 152. These two aren't same plane or task.
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    Isos

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:22 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Don't be stupid. Of course they are going for Yak 152. These two aren't same plane or task.

    Yak 152 looks more like a fighter than this diamond plane. They will probably use this one to train their bomber pilots and pilots for big planes like il76 or something like that.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:42 pm

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Don't be stupid. Of course they are going for Yak 152. These two aren't same plane or task.

    Yak 152 looks more like a fighter than this diamond plane. They will probably use this one to train their bomber pilots and pilots for big planes like il76 or something like that.

    it will be used for training of logistics flights by sounds of it. These type of planes cannot maneuver like Yak-152 can which will be first for training fighters.
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    George1

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:50 am

    12th An-148 for the Ministry of Defense of Russia

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2933851.html


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:40 pm

    '
    Mixed Russian/Indian crews flying Su-30 in exercises, lots of photos

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2946014.html

    Nice to see Russian pilots finally putting some decals on their helmets, looks nicer


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:56 am

    They're on a roll the past few days... Very Happy

    The A-100 AEW/surveillance aircraft has made it's maiden flight on Saturday, announced the press service of the Vega concern

    Arrow http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4740350
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:41 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:They're on a roll the past few days... Very Happy

    The A-100 AEW/surveillance aircraft has made it's maiden flight on Saturday, announced the press service of the Vega concern

    Arrow http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4740350

    Definitely, here is photo of the birthday-boy:



    Alright, what are the differences visible? confused
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:45 pm

    I'll move the discussion to the AWACS thread...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:38 pm

    Russia is developing hypersonic weapons and vertical takeoff aircraft


    https://iz.ru/674713/2017-11-23/rossiia-razrabatyvaet-giperzvukovoe-oruzhie-i-samolet-vertikalnogo-vzleta

    Russia is developing hypersonic weapons, this issue was discussed at meetings with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Also, work is underway to create a vertical takeoff aircraft.

    This was reported by Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov, noting that these developments are taken into account in the draft new state arms program.

    So VTOL and aircraft carrying cruisers ?



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    AlfaT8

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:12 pm

    The article seems a little odd, but that could just be the translation.
    But if true, then F, what a waist, looks like we're going back to the Kiev-class. No

    Garry is gonna be pissed.
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:31 am

    Total waste of money and time.... VSTOL jet fixed wing aircraft as we know them are total pieces of rubbish.

    Limited performance, super fragile, super expensive, high loss rate for no real return except being able to make cheaper limited aircraft carriers that don't really stack up against decent modern aircraft.

    Total waste of time and money.

    The hope they might develop a design that fixes all the problems is tiny because their problems are enormous.... high pressure piping of air to the wing tips, nose and tail to enable a stable hover means lots of extra weight and complexity and of course vulnerability to damage or failure.

    The best thing they ever did was scale up to the K with conventional fixed wing aircraft also used by the Air Force.

    The Russian AF has no use for crappy short range expensive slow VSTOL aircraft.... even a basic generic MiG-29 shaped airframe with the radar and engine you put into the VSTOL aircraft will have better performance and be much cheaper and much safer.

    There was a famous photographer of aircraft a while back... he unfortunately died and I can't remember his name but the two seater of theYak-38M is the one aircraft he refused to fly in.... It did not have a high kill rate for its pilots but it had a high crash rate the pilots being saved by the automatic ejection system...


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    Isos

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  Isos on Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:09 am

    The most weird is that a longer flight deck with a ski jump isn t expensive to build and they can upgrade easily mig 29k or design a new 5th generation mig based on mig 29k.

    I don t understand what they really want. They say they are planing a 100 kt supercarrier but also a vstol fighter which are made for really small carrier. They want one thing and its opposite.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:39 am

    Isos wrote:The most weird is that a longer flight deck with a ski jump isn t expensive to build and they can upgrade easily mig 29k or design a new 5th generation mig based on mig 29k.

    I don t understand what they really want. They say they are planing a 100 kt supercarrier but also a vstol fighter which are made for really small carrier. They want one thing and its opposite.

    It's really a mystery to me as well.

    First they said that they're going to develop a naval PAK-FA with the MiG-29K used as a stopgap in the meantime and Su-33s to be withdrawn.
    Then they wanted to put the Kuznetsov into deep modernization.
    Then they said they wanted to build some new carriers with catapults and all the rest of it.
    Then they said they'll keep the Su-33s after all and upgrade them, to provide a long-range air defence envelope.
    It's nearly 2018 and the Kuznetsov is still not undergoing that deep modernization.
    Somewhere in the midst of all this they developed the Ka-52K and started talking about helicopter carriers to replace the lost Mistrals, and about how versatile the Ka-52K can be including for anti-ship duties.
    And now they're talking about VTOL aircraft and carriers.

    The only way this VTOL stuff would make sense is if they bin the navalization of the PAK-FA, bin the modernization of the Kuznetsov (let it serve out 10 more years and then withdraw it), bin the idea of the helicopter carriers - and just use the VTOL aircraft and carriers to fulfill all these functions instead whether air-defence for the fleet, land-assault operations or anti-ship missions.
    In this way it would actually be a cost effective move.
    Different question is whether a VTOL aircraft would be able to fulfill all those functions acceptably. That's the engineering challenge.

    Or maybe it's all just a ploy to confuse NATO analysts.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:01 pm

    flamming_python wrote:...............

    The only way this VTOL stuff would make sense is if they bin the navalization of the PAK-FA, bin the modernization of the Kuznetsov (let it serve out 10 more years and then withdraw it), bin the idea of the helicopter carriers - and just use the VTOL aircraft and carriers to fulfill all these functions instead whether air-defence for the fleet, land-assault operations or anti-ship missions.
    In this way it would actually be a cost effective move.
    Different question is whether a VTOL aircraft would be able to fulfill all those functions acceptably. That's the engineering challenge.
    ...................

    I think that is precisely what they are going for. USS Wasp/America-class style ship that will do both jobs depending on aircraft complement at the time.
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    George1

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:58 pm

    The 18th Military Transport Aviation Division was restored in the Russian Military Space Station

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2980287.html


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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:45 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:...............

    The only way this VTOL stuff would make sense is if they bin the navalization of the PAK-FA, bin the modernization of the Kuznetsov (let it serve out 10 more years and then withdraw it), bin the idea of the helicopter carriers - and just use the VTOL aircraft and carriers to fulfill all these functions instead whether air-defence for the fleet, land-assault operations or anti-ship missions.
    In this way it would actually be a cost effective move.
    Different question is whether a VTOL aircraft would be able to fulfill all those functions acceptably. That's the engineering challenge.
    ...................

    I think that is precisely what they are going for. USS Wasp/America-class style ship that will do both jobs depending on aircraft complement at the time.

    Looks like US Marines/Spanish/UK and Italian navies opted for as Garry says mediocre expensive, fighters F-35 in STOVL version... Russian as well. Looks like some advantages are there.



    Chronologically there were announced by Russian top brass:

    1. We consider big AC 100,000 displacement and small about 30,000 tons displacement. Possibly unified with Liders (ekhm I guess this was referring to power reactors...)

    2. We restart vertical start fighter production for navy

    3. There could be Vgen fighter project coo-financed by UAE

    4. We are gonna build Aircraft Cruisers but by end of new program (i.e. ~2025) because first we need to have vertical take off fighter. (very recent interview with Bondarev)


    On Yak-43 (land based version -Efim Gordon as source in Wiki) they considered NK-32... and now surprise NK-32 is alive and kicking in new version.

    5. If you look at Ulyanovsk class drawings you can see then all missile launchers are vertical. If RuN is going for Aircraft Cruiser option my educated guess would be they use UKSK-M embedded in deck.



    BTW schema of group start for Yak-141s.
    http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/yak141.html







    But of course life will tell . Only speculations.



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    miketheterrible

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:59 pm

    NK-32 would be ideal engine for the the jump jet. Huge engine though.
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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:09 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:NK-32 would be ideal engine for the the jump jet.  Huge engine though.

    If you compare F-35 STOVL engine PW with KH there are not so much differences...IMHO goo dsignt Kh-32 can go to Tu-160M2, PAK DA, Tu-22M3M and new ?Yak Smile))



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