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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

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    Viktor

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:29 pm

    I guess those Su-35BM will have L-band AESA radar in their wings ... WoW


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    Vladimir79

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:23 am

    That should really increase the situational awareness for the pilot. It is going to take some major bandwidth to process all that information.
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:16 pm

    L-band.. this RADAR is likely a part of the Flanker's MAWS (Missile Approach Warning System)

    BTW any news on Epaulet AESA ?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:25 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:L-band.. this RADAR is likely a part of the Flanker's MAWS(Missile Approach Warning System)


    I'm thinking it has something to do the same as the passive radar on the wings of F-35.
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    Viktor

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:38 pm

    Well its a radar designed to detect LO/VLO at greater distances from other.
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    Russian Patriot

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    Russia plans to develop 5th-generation 'stealth' helicopters

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu May 13, 2010 8:24 pm

    Russia plans to develop 5th-generation 'stealth' helicopters
    RIA Novosti

    18:3613/05/2010 MOSCOW, May 13 (RIA Novosti) - A Russian helicopter company is planning to develop the world's first fifth-generation combat helicopter, which experts say would be able to attack fighter jets and be invisible for radars, the Gazeta daily said on Thursday.

    "We are working on the concept of the fifth-generation combat helicopter," the paper quoted the company's CEO, Andrei Shibitov, as saying at a news conference in Moscow.

    Shibitov did not specify the characteristics of the helicopter, but said the company was going to spend some $1 billion on the project, with more investment expected to be allocated from the state budget.

    The official said the Mil design bureau had been working on a classical rotor model, which features a large main rotor and a smaller auxiliary rotor, while the Kamov design bureau had been developing a coaxial rotor model.

    Military experts believe that the coaxial rotor model is more stable and easy to fly while the classical model is more reliable and has a higher degree of survivability on the battlefield.

    First deputy head of the Russian Academy of Geopolitical Issues, Konstantin Sivkov, told the paper that fifth-generation combat helicopters have never been built before, although the United States has recently begun working on a similar project.

    He said a fifth-generation combat helicopter must have a low radar signature, a high noise reduction, an extended flying range, be equipped with a computerized arms control system, be able to combat fighter jets (existing helicopters are generally only intended to hit ground-based targets) and reach a speed of up to 500-600 km/h (310-370 mph).

    The project cannot proceed, however, unless it is backed by the government.

    "If the government does not sign a contract, the idea will die on the vine," head of the Russian Academy of Geopolitical Issues Leonid Ivashov told Gazeta.

    Ivashov said that with sufficient investment and good organization the new helicopter could be built within five years. Otherwise, the project may drag on for 20-30 years.

    But he was somewhat skeptical about the chances of carrying out the project.

    "We have been trying to tackle everything - fifth-generation planes, fifth-generation helicopters, but nothing of this have so far been supplied to the army - today the army still uses helicopters produced in 1970s," Ivashov said.

    Russia's main combat helicopter, the Mi-24 Hind, is a third-generation helicopter, and a few Mi-28 Havoc, Ka-50 and Ka-52 Hokum, which have just started to arrive in the Russian army, are fourth-generation helicopters.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100513-rianovosti01.htm


    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 14, 2010 1:28 am

    I have the same problem with this as I had with commanche.
    On most battlefields to date the greatest threat to helicopters has been ground fire in the form of small arms and man portable SAMs.
    It really doesn't make much sense to go to the expense and effort to make an aircraft stealthy that will fly low and slow and can be damaged by small arms fire.
    Stealth relies on materials and shaping... once you start punching holes in it it stops being so stealthy.
    Increasing the speed and intelligence of helicopters is a big tick, I agree with that, that is a good idea, but if you want a stealthy aircraft to shoot down enemy fighters a large interceptor with a weapon bay full of long range missiles and a huge AESA with a tried and true low probability intercept mode of scanning for targets makes more sense than the equivelent helo.
    A stealth interceptor can see further and reach further and see better and carry more and stay longer.
    Helicopters are used against ground targets because that is what they are best at.

    When the Hokum was first spotted it was considered to be an air to air fighter aircraft too, and the reality is that compared to even a 3rd generation fighter, or even a jet fighter trainer with a gun pod it would have problems.

    A Mig-23 could detect it from relatively long range and take potshots at it from a distance with R-23 and R-24 missiles and there is little the Ka-50 could do about it.
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    Russian Patriot

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    Russian fighter jets make first ever nonstop flight across Russia to Far East !

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:58 pm


    Russian fighter jets make first ever nonstop flight across Russia to Far East

    RIA Novosti

    12:45 04/07/2010

    VLADIVOSTOK, July 4 (RIA Novosti) - Russian fighter jets have performed the first ever nonstop flights from European Russia to the Russian Far East with in-flight refueling as part of the Vostok-2010 military drills, Chief of the General Staff Nikolai Makarov said on Sunday.

    "For the first time ever, we have tested a possibility for fighter jets to fly from aerodromes in the European part of Russia to eastern airfields in the Far Eastern district without landing, with in-flight refueling and the delivery of strikes according to assignments received during the flight," Makarov said.

    The exercises, which have entered their naval phase in the Sea of Okhotsk in the Russian Far East, are being overseen by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on board the heavy nuclear-powered cruiser Pyotr Veliky.

    When asked by the president about how many refuelings had been required for the fighter jets, Russia's top military commander answered that it had taken Su-24M Fencer fighter-bombers three refuelings and for new Su-34 Fullback strike aircraft two refuelings.

    The drills, Vostok-2010, began on June 29 in Russia's Far East training areas and involved some 10,000 troops and around 1,000 items of military hardware. The first phase of the drills ended on Saturday. The second, naval phase launched on Sunday, will see the involvement of several times more service personnel and military equipment. The exercises continue until July 8.

    Apart from the Pyotr Veliky cruiser of the Russian Northern Fleet, the drills also involve the Guards guided missile cruiser Moskva of the Black Sea Fleet.

    As part of the drills, the Armed Forces will practice the deployment of additional troops in Siberia and the Far East to reinforce the existing military contingent in the region in case of a military conflict.

    Russia holds Vostok strategic command-and-staff drills every two years.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100704-rianovosti01.htm
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    Russian Patriot

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    Russian frontline, army aviation to be completely rearmed in 10 years

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:56 pm


    Russian frontline, army aviation to be completely rearmed in 10 years

    RIA Novosti

    13:58 14/08/2010

    MOSCOW, August 14 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Air Force will entirely rearm its frontline aviation and army aviation within the next 10 years, Air Force Commander Colonel General Alexander Zelin told the Ekho Moskvy FM station on Saturday.

    The frontline and army aviation will see 100% rearmament, and the military transport aviation will be updated by 70%, Zelin said.

    He emphasized that the Air Force is higher-priority military service and the shaped plans would be unambiguously carried out.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100814-rianovosti03.htm
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:46 am

    I have read somewhere recently that Frontal aviation and also army aviation will be directly controlled by the new districts they operate in and that they wont be at the bottom of the airforce chain of command anymore.

    Kinda makes sense to me as such forces are very much more related to the Army as their role is to directly support the army on the battlefield.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:54 pm

    The frontline and army aviation will see 100% rearmament

    100% must mean reductions of 80%. There are only a couple hundred attack jets and helicopters slated for frontal aviation over the next 5 years. Don't see how they will increase that by much when they have to replace upgraded Soviet rust buckets in the same time frame. At the rate we are going we will have an air force of 300 attack craft. France couldn't even live with that.
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:06 am

    The thing I have a problem with is that now they are going all multirole with their aircraft the separation of fighter and bomber is blurred.
    For instance under the old system the Mig-29 was a short range interceptor. If there was nothing left to intercept then it could carry dumb bombs in a very basic mud mover role. The Su-27 was the same, it was a long range interceptor/escort fighter, that could use rocket pods and dumb bombs when there was nothing left to intercept.
    Frontal aviation was mainly concerned with attacking ground targets and while it had interceptors and fighters that was mainly to protect the Army and itself from air attack. Its ground attack and Combat air support aircraft were supposed to support attacks by the army and included Su-25s, Su-17s, Mig-27s and the like.
    Now the only dedicated ground support aircraft are helos and the Su-25 with the Su-34 used for deep strike and SEAD type missions.
    What I am getting at is that most of frontal aviations aircraft used for ground attack are now withdrawn from service and the Su-25 remains but it alone cannot do the job.
    The Mig-29SMT and Mig-35s and the Su-27SM and Su-35s will perform the role of fighter and bomber and would support the Army by hitting mid range targets on the battlefield.
    Deep targets like HQs, comm centres, large SAM sites, etc would be hit by a mixture of Su-35 and Su-34s most likely, or indeed Tu-22M3s or even Tu-160s perhaps.

    The thing is that there will barely be enough Su-27SM and Su-35 and Mig-29SMT and Mig-35s in service for both frontal aviation and the airforce... unless they upgrade a lot more Su-27s and Mig-29s to SM and SMT standard respectively for the job.
    A Mig-29SMT can drop a satellite guided bomb from 8,000m on a guerilla base just as effectively as a Mig-35 could, but it would cost rather less.
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    ahmedfire

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    Russian Air Force to procure 1,500 new aircraft by 2020

    Post  ahmedfire on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:52 pm

    The Russian Air Force will procure over 1,500 new aircraft and significantly increase the number of high-precision weapons in its arsenal by 2020, a deputy Air Force commander said on Wednesday.

    "Overall, we are planning to acquire and modernize about 2,000 aircraft and helicopters by 2020...including more than 1,500 new aircraft and about 400 modernized," Lt. Gen. Igor Sadofyev told reporters in Moscow.

    According to the general, in 2011 the Air Force plans to adopt Su-27SM, Su-30M2 and Su-35S multirole fighters, Su-34 fighter-bombers and Yak-130 combat trainers as well as Ka-52 and Mi-28N attack helicopters, Mi-8 armed assault helicopters, Ka-226 and Ansat-U light multipurpose helicopters.

    "The priority for the strategic aviation is the modernization of 80 percent of existing Tu-160, Tu-95MS, Tu-22M3 bombers and Il-78M aerial tankers...and the extension of their service life," Sadofyev said.

    He also said that the share of high-precision weaponry in the Russian Air Force arsenal would increase by 18 times, including the unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) - by six times.

    "In addition to a thorough upgrade of the aircraft fleet, the measures planned until 2020 will allow us to increase the share of high-precision weaponry to 70 percent of the total, or by 18 times," the general said.

    Sadofyev added that the number of all-weather aircraft, capable of carrying out day and night missions would increase almost five-fold, and the share of UAVs would constitute about 30 percent of the total by 2020.

    However, Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies told RIA Novosti that Russia's ability to fund and manufacture 1,500 military aircraft over the next decade is "questionable."

    "The defense aerospace industry suffered from a decade plus of serious under-investment following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and only in the past few years has there been any appreciable improvement in the flow of cash," Barrie said.

    "With regard to increasing the percentage of precision guided-weapons in the Air Force inventory, Russia's Tactical Missile Systems (TRV) has been designing and developing a range of 'precision' munitions, including the Kh-38 family of air-to-surface missiles, since at least the early 1990s," Barrie continued.

    He said these projects had been hampered by the lack of adequate state funding until recently. He noted, however, that funding has been "noticeably improved," which will likely increase the pace of development on the Kh-38, as well as other weapons projects.

    MOSCOW, December 1 (RIA Novosti)
    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20101201/161580969.html

    KRON1

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  KRON1 on Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:07 am

    Russia has been planning to procure hundreds of aircraft now for the last ten years. Two GOZ have gone unfunded. Why will the third be any different?
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:46 am

    South Ossetia conflict Mostly.

    Plus the Government seems to have realised that the military industrial complex needs to be repaired and engaged whereas before it was just looking at the military.

    KRON1

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  KRON1 on Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:20 am

    GarryB wrote:South Ossetia conflict Mostly.

    Plus the Government seems to have realised that the military industrial complex needs to be repaired and engaged whereas before it was just looking at the military.

    MoD's biggest problem is cost. Cost escalation in the MIC is almost twice as bad as it is in NATO. MoD put down the first payments for GOZ orders, then the producers come back and say it will cost 50% more than stated. This is why the first two GOZ never got funded. Now the state has to fund not only the order, but also the reequipping of MIC. They waited so long to do it, it will cost trillions of USD to do the job. Russia doesn't have those kind of funds. The industrialists are so greedy, the little money they do get will disappear as it did before.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:56 pm

    Cost escalation and obsolescence are the two reasons why they have gone unfunded. Watching all those projects get canceled revealed alot. Now we are waiting on retooling and reogranisation so cost escalation will go down for the large orders about to come. The rest we will have to buy abroad.
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:14 am

    Volume will reduce the cost but developing new models and sourcing western components not available in Russia will also drive up costs.

    With a modern high tech production plant most of the costs are not labour costs so the low cost labour advantage Russia once had is now gone so prices are going to climb dramatically.

    That is why I have been suggesting that alternative solutions to all brand new should be sought.

    The plan of paying for 2,000 aircraft in the next ten years where 400 and something are upgrades is silly. A plan to make 1,200 all new aircraft, plus about 1,000 upgrades makes much more sense and would probably be much cheaper.

    The problem is that the leadership have locked themselves into the delusion that only the latest and best will do.

    The reality is that for the majority of its work the Air force doesn't need T-50s. For the majority of its work the Navy doesn't need carriers. It has been made known that for the majority of its work the Army doesn't need 22,000 tanks.

    The point is that a country the size of Russia does need numbers in certain areas, and aircraft and ships are the two main ones.

    The important thing is to have things in service and to give them regular and proper upgrades.

    The changes made to the Army sound to a layman as drastic cuts, but they include the removal of lower readiness units and a slight increase in the highest readiness units so in practical terms instead of having about 1,800 odd tanks ready to roll they will actually have about 2,200. The enormous reduction in tanks sitting in storage should lead to those tanks getting regular upgrades etc so the Army will actually be a much leaner and meaner force with this reduction.

    For the air force and the navy the situation is the opposite in that they do need numbers and it is often cheaper and easier to upgrade an existing aircraft or ship to an acceptable level than to make new ones from scratch.

    With better command, control, communications, computers, Intel, and Recon the Army will find that it can move on the battlefield much more efficently and react to the enemy to maximise the damage they can deliver and the lease cost, with an improved air force hitting important enemy assets they can start planning for attacks like Desert Storm and the like.
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    Russian Patriot

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:35 am

    GarryB wrote:Volume will reduce the cost but developing new models and sourcing western components not available in Russia will also drive up costs.

    With a modern high tech production plant most of the costs are not labour costs so the low cost labour advantage Russia once had is now gone so prices are going to climb dramatically.

    That is why I have been suggesting that alternative solutions to all brand new should be sought.

    The plan of paying for 2,000 aircraft in the next ten years where 400 and something are upgrades is silly. A plan to make 1,200 all new aircraft, plus about 1,000 upgrades makes much more sense and would probably be much cheaper.

    The problem is that the leadership have locked themselves into the delusion that only the latest and best will do.

    The reality is that for the majority of its work the Air force doesn't need T-50s. For the majority of its work the Navy doesn't need carriers. It has been made known that for the majority of its work the Army doesn't need 22,000 tanks.

    The point is that a country the size of Russia does need numbers in certain areas, and aircraft and ships are the two main ones.

    The important thing is to have things in service and to give them regular and proper upgrades.

    The changes made to the Army sound to a layman as drastic cuts, but they include the removal of lower readiness units and a slight increase in the highest readiness units so in practical terms instead of having about 1,800 odd tanks ready to roll they will actually have about 2,200. The enormous reduction in tanks sitting in storage should lead to those tanks getting regular upgrades etc so the Army will actually be a much leaner and meaner force with this reduction.

    For the air force and the navy the situation is the opposite in that they do need numbers and it is often cheaper and easier to upgrade an existing aircraft or ship to an acceptable level than to make new ones from scratch.

    With better command, control, communications, computers, Intel, and Recon the Army will find that it can move on the battlefield much more efficently and react to the enemy to maximise the damage they can deliver and the lease cost, with an improved air force hitting important enemy assets they can start planning for attacks like Desert Storm and the like.
    In support of What Garry said:

    What's next for the Russian Air Force?
    RIA Novosti

    22:56 03/12/2010 RIA military correspondent Ilya Kramnik - Deputy Commander of the Russian Air Force Igor Sadofiyev said on December 1 that in the next ten years, Russia will acquire more than 1,500 new aircraft and upgrade more than 400 others. The media has mentioned these figures more than once when quoting high-ranking military officers, but now the Air Force is ready to disclose the full range of its purchases.

    Modernization

    The modernization of obsolescent planes at a relatively modest cost makes it possible to sharply increase the combat potential of the previous generation of aircraft. Such improvements are common practice in many national militaries, and, for its part, Russia primarily plans to upgrade its long-range aviation and cargo fleet.

    The Air Force will extend the service life of the Tu-160 (Blackjack) and Tu-95 (Backgin) strategic bombers and the Tu-22M3 long-range bombers and upgrade its IL-78 (Midas) refueling tankers. Additional improvements will be made to the A-50 "flying radar" and cargo aircraft, such as the An-124 Ruslan (Condor) and Il-76 (Candid) airlifters.

    Front-line aviation will also undergo modernization, but the accent will be shifted. All things considered, the Air Force will likely discontinue the modernization of the Su-27 (Flanker) fighter into its SM version after it receives 12 new aircraft of this type in 2011. In addition, next year the Air Force will begin flying the Su-35S fighter - the latest derivative of the Su-27.

    On the other hand, the Air Force plans to step up the modernization of the Su-25 (Frogfoot) assault plane, the Su-24 (Fencer) bomber, and the MIG-31 (Foxhound) interceptor. On par with transports and far-range bombers, they will form the backbone of Russia's upgraded air fleet.

    What's new?

    The planned purchase of 1,500 new aircraft and helicopters in the next ten years has sent some shockwaves, because in the past, annual purchases were limited to 30-40 aircraft in total. Many wonder if the plan is realistic.

    Ruslav Pukhov, director of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technology (CAST) and one of the leading domestic military experts, explains: "Most likely, this number - 1,500 aircraft - includes not only planes and helicopters, but also drones. Many countries count their aircraft in this way, for instance, when they present information to the UN Register of Conventional Arms.

    In reality, the figure of "more than 1,500 aircraft" is most likely to include 350-400 new combat aircraft, about 100 military transports of different types, and 120-140 Yak-130 Mitten trainer aircraft. The remaining 800-900 aircraft will be helicopters and drones.

    Some figures on particular types of aircraft have been specified. The Defense Ministry has already signed contracts for the purchase of 32 Su-34 (Fullback) front-line bombers through 2013, 48 Su-35 fighters through 2015, 12 Su-27 SM (Flanker) fighters through 2011, four Su-30M2 (Flanker C) aircraft through 2011, and 12 Su-25 UBM trainer aircraft.

    This year the Defense Ministry plans to sign a contract for the delivery of 26 MIG-29K (Fulcrum) fighters by 2015. It is also expected to sign additional contracts for the purchase of at least 80 Su-34 (Fullback) fighter-bombers and 24-48 Su-35 (Flanker- E) fighters. All in all, these purchases will amount to about 240-260 aircraft.

    Contracts for the purchase of another 100-110 aircraft are likely to be awarded to the Sukhoi design bureau for the T-50 fifth generation fighter and other Sukhoi aircraft.

    The Defense Ministry also has plans to buy a long list of helicopters - primarily the Mi-28H (Havoc) and Ka-52 Hokum B attack choppers. By 2020, their numbers are likely to swell to 200-250 and 50-60, respectively, while different Mi-8 (Hip) versions will remain the backbone of the transport and combat fleet. Their serial production was launched in the 1960s and will continue for at least two more decades. The fleet of light helicopters previously represented by the Mi-2 (Hoplite) will be renovated - and the Mi-2 will be replaced with the light Ansat trainer and the multi-purpose Ka-60 Kasatka (Orca).

    Unknown drones and the bottom line

    The biggest enigma is the drones that the Air Force is planning to buy. In fact, today the military are expected to purchase drones that have not yet been developed or are, at most, in the last stage of design. It has been previously reported that the testing of domestic drones is scheduled to start in 2011. The new year will begin very soon, and hopefully we'll hear more about them in the next 12 months.

    As to the Air Force's overall number of aircraft, I can only repeat the previous estimate given by RIA Novosti. But by 2020, Russia will have about 800 efficient combat aircraft and a total fleet numbering between 1,500 and 1,700 planes and helicopters. Including Navy aircraft, Russian military aviation will possess around 1,800-1,900 aircraft, not counting drones.

    The views expressed in this article are the author's and may not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101203-rianovosti03.htm
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:47 am

    Upgrades for the transports and bombers can keep them running for 50 years. Upgrading fighters makes it 35 years at best. We seen what happens doing that in India, bunch of flying coffins. The inventory of fighters is dated at 1987 on average. 23 years to date, 12 years left if refurbished. Su-27SM stopped, no MiG-29s upgraded, limited MiG-31 upgrades... we are losing over 1200 fighters not including Su-24. Include Su-34 we are still only getting 350 if all goes to plan... which it rarely does here. Lets list what we have today that can be considered modern fighters...

    48 Su-27SM
    34 MiG-29SMT
    12 Su-30
    16 Su-34
    10 MiG-31BM

    120 fighters considered modern?!? censored

    VVS is supposed to compose 1500 fighters... we are screwed.

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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:45 am

    I agree, I think they have underestimated the value of upgraded fighters.

    I think the Su-27SM upgrade should be continued and the Mig-29SMT upgrade applied too.

    I don't think these upgrades should be at the cost of new aircraft, but as well as.

    I think Russia really needs a cheap new -5th generation fighter that is smaller and cheaper than the T-50 that is stealthy but cheap to buy and operate. Something that can barely super cruise, but also can carry a large payload externally as a bomb truck when the enemies AD has been dealt with plus a fairly significant internal capacity for medium and short range weapons.

    The focus is stealth so it is not at a disadvantage in combat, but also low cost to operate and buy so it can be bought in large numbers so that older aircraft can be retired.

    I can understand upgrading the Mig-31 and the Su-25 because these aircraft are useful single role aircraft that are the best at what they do.
    The Su-24 upgrade however is a puzzle in many ways. First it is a strike only aircraft which means if you have 200 of them you have 200 strike aircraft. If you instead spend the money to upgrade the Mig-29s to SMT standard and the Su-27s to SM standard you also have a short and medium range strike capability along with fairly solid air to air capabilities as well. I would think the Su-27SM would have performance similar to an Su-24 in the strike role using guided standoff weapons over similar ranges, whereas the Mig-29SMT would have similar performance over shorter ranges, but the Su-24 can't compete with either aircraft in the air to air stakes.
    The final nail for the Fencer is that its replacement is in production. Perhaps when the Fullback (Su-34) is in service in sufficient numbers the plan might be to sell the upgraded Fencers to Algeria and Iran, but I think the air force should first of all clear the skies of enemy aircraft and go in and start taking apart the enemies air defence systems at the same time. The Su-34 should have air to air weapons that allow it to look after itself... it has R-77 and R-73 capability.
    The Tu-22M3 is already getting an upgrade too so any really deep strike missions the Su-27SM can't handle could be performed by Tu-22M3s hopefully escorted by Su-35s or later T-50s. 24 tons of bombs with a 2,000km flight radius is rather impressive... I still think they should reinstall the inflight refuelling probes on those things because the 24 ton payload capability is achieved by offloading some fuel. By topping up just after take off you would greatly improve flight range performance.
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    Andy_Wiz

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Andy_Wiz on Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:09 pm

    Ok guys IDK how you would react to it but apparently RuAF is mustering a contract for 28 to 36(with option to even more) Su-30MKI or MKM (or equivalent modification) with PESA, Thrust vectoring, canards etc. Contract will be signed in nearest future. Wait for officious... Cool
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:05 am

    So what they want is something cheaper than the Su-35?

    An Su-30MKI with Russian equipment replacing the Indian and foreign content would still be a step up from the Su-30MKK, but if that is the case why not just order new build Su-27SM?

    And while they are at it why not just buy some Mig-29M2s?

    Have they mentioned problems with the Su-35?

    Maybe it has too many 5th gen bits that are not ready yet, or maybe they are getting a 4th gen fighter with a 5th gen price?
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    Viktor

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:48 am

    Andy_Wiz wrote:Ok guys IDK how you would react to it but apparently RuAF is mustering a contract for 28 to 36(with option to even more) Su-30MKI or MKM (or equivalent modification) with PESA, Thrust vectoring, canards etc. Contract will be signed in nearest future. Wait for officious... Cool

    Are your sure this has nothing to do with modernized Su-33 they are about to get?
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    GarryB

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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:37 am

    I remember the last order they made there were about 6 Su-27SMs and 2 Su30M2s included.

    The Russians have been using the Su-30M in a command type role using a larger radar that is on a lot to find targets and pass those targets on to other platforms so the other platforms can operate radar and radio silent much closer to the enemy.

    Not so much in a Mini AWACS mode as is often described, but as a way for a flight of aircraft to operate near enemy lines in a radar silent mode but with full situation awareness because of data from the Su-30M.

    I believe they even used a Su-30M to track the target during the famous test of the Mig-31M with its R-37 missiles. The particular model Mig-31M didn't have a new Zaslon-M radar so it needed an aircraft closer to the target to feed it the target information it needed to launch the missile and get it close enough for the missiles seeker to home in and kill the target.
    The flight range of the missile was something like 300km.


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    Re: VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

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