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    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:04 pm

    Development of a new PD-12V engine for the Mi-26 helicopter

    In May of this year, the head of the holding "Russian Helicopters" Andrei Boginsky said that the flight tests of the re-engineered Mi-26 will take place after 2022. As a new engine on a heavy helicopter, it is planned to use the PD-12V, which is based on the PD-14 gas generator (this motor is intended for the Russian perspective narrow-body aircraft MS-21). It will replace Ukrainian D-136 engines manufactured by "Motor Sich", which are now equipped with Mi-26.

    Development PD-12V is at the stage of development work (ROC). In 2017 the stage of preliminary design of this engine was completed, the Perm division of the corporation "ODK-Aviadvigatel" reported in its information and technical bulletin. For today, the design of the power plant and the main parameters have been determined, and integration with the helicopter has been carried out. The production and testing of the first prototype PD-12V are planned for 2020, and the overall completion of the ROC - for 2025

    Compared to the Ukrainian D-136, the Russian engine will ensure the expansion of the helicopter's basing conditions due to the large capacity to maintain power in high-altitude and hot climate conditions and the possibility of boosting the capacity to 14,000 liters. from. It is expected that the Mi-26 remotorization will increase the flight range with a payload and reduce operating costs due to improved technical characteristics and lower maintenance costs. Despite the greater weight of the PD-12V compared to the D-136, the new engine will be more economical than the Ukrainian equivalent.

    As previously reported, PD-12V can also be installed on the Russian-Chinese heavy transport helicopter Advanced Heavy Lift (AHL).


    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3248518.html
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    Austin

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    United Engine Corporation - Page 3 Empty CIAM PRESENTED PROSPECTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF HELICOPTER ENGINES

    Post  Austin on Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:05 pm

    CIAM PRESENTED PROSPECTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF HELICOPTER ENGINES

    https://www.aviaport.ru/news/2018/06/26/545147.html

    At the 11th International Helicopter Industry Exhibition HeliRussia 2018, held in late May, the Round Table "The Present and Future of Engine Building for Helicopters" was held, at which Yuri Fokin, Head of the Small-Scale Gas Turbine Engine (MGTD) Department of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM), was the keynote speaker. Below is a systematic presentation of his report.

    Introduction

    In the 1990-2000s, a dramatic situation developed in the domestic helicopter engine building, due to the fact that after the collapse of the USSR, Russia remained without serial production of helicopter engines, in particular, the main aircraft engine of the TV3-117 family, which was manufactured by Zaporizhzhya Motor Sich enterprise. In addition, for a long time, new domestic helicopter engines were not developed or commissioned. Some projects have been started, but have not been completed, for example, the RD-600 helicopter aircraft engine.

    The lack of domestic aircraft engines led to the fact that almost all domestic developed and modified helicopters were used aircraft engines of foreign production. Helicopters Ka-226, Ka-226T, Ansat, Ansat-U, Ka-62, Mi-26 use foreign-made engines. Now we are considering the option of using a foreign engine on a promising medium-sized transport helicopter. Moreover, even on the Mi-38 medium-capacity helicopter, the installation of a foreign engine was originally planned, and only the supplier's refusal to supply engines to Russia forced domestic developers to create a Russian engine (TV7-117V). Today, after many years of discussion, the issue of developing the serial production of VK-2500 engines in Russia has been resolved.

    What is done by the "United Engine-Building Corporation"


    Since the beginning of this decade, the program of import substitution in helicopter engine construction was launched, within which a very significant amount of work was carried out. The main results can be considered the development of the serial production of the VK-2500 family engines in Russia. In addition to assembling the engines of the basic version entirely from domestic components, work was carried out to create deeply upgraded VK-2500P / PS engines, in particular, VK-2500PС-03 certified for the newest Mi-171A2 helicopter. The VK-2500PS engine is a modification of the VK-2500 engine with a new fully digital control system of the FADEC type. Now the state joint testing of another modification of the VK-2500 VK-2500P engine for the modernized Mi-28NM helicopter, which is in the stage of flight tests, is on the agenda now.

    In addition, the helicopter engine TV7-117V for Mi-38 has been certified. The basic version was developed in the 1980s, but the engine was certified quite recently, the Certificate was obtained with certain limitations of the operational range. During 2018, the whole range of measures to expand the operational range within the framework of the Terms of Reference should be completed, Fokin added.

    We consider the possibility of developing a PD-12V engine for perspective heavy helicopters and VK-800V for light helicopters. So on the basis of the gas generator of the dual-path engine PD-14, intended for the passenger-oriented MS-21 airplane, the PD-12V engine for heavy Mi-26 helicopters is being developed. As for VK-800, work is now under way on an aircraft engine version intended for use in the power unit of the L-410 aircraft. At the same time, the CIAM supports the resumption of work on the creation of a helicopter version of VK-800V.

    Finally, work was started to shape the perspective helicopter engine. At present, the company "ODK-Klimov" forms proposals for a prospective engine under the "Prospective engine for helicopters" program, this project has not yet been examined by CIAM. But so far it is known that an aircraft engine will be offered in a larger class of power than TV7-117V, which exceeds the existing analogues in terms of manufacturability and specific mass.

    Creation of advanced scientific and technical reserve


    Creation of perspective aircraft engines is impossible without creation of advanced scientific and technical reserve (NTZ). The goals and programs of NTZ development are already defined. In accordance with the adopted program, prospective aircraft engines should have significantly better characteristics in comparison, for example,

    United Engine Corporation - Page 3 Engine10

    The main directions of the development of helicopter aircraft engines


    The specialists of CIAM developed seven main directions for the development of aircraft engines for prospective domestic helicopters

    United Engine Corporation - Page 3 Engine11

    Also the task is to improve the methods of 3D-design.

    To ensure these directions of work, the CIAM is developing a whole range of breakthrough technologies. Together with the enterprises of the branch, the institute implements a program called "Development of Technologies for Advanced MGTS and AAP", the aim of this program is the creation of eleven demonstrators of advanced technologies.
    Demonstration "electric" MGTD;

    1 High-speed reducer MGTD;
    2 Nozzle apparatus turbine from KM;
    3 Heat exchanger for MGTD "complex" cycle;
    4 Combustion chamber MGTD with elements from CM;
    5 Experimental single-stage pulp and paper mill
    6 Experimental two-stage PPM;
    7 High-speed stage of helicopter gearbox.
    8 Demonstration turbo-compound aviation piston engine;
    9 Demonstration MGTD on gas supports;
    10 Demonstration rotary-piston engine.


    In accordance with the program, in 2017, the planned design studies with conditional leveling for 2025 and 2035 technologies were performed, and in 2018-2019 it is planned to manufacture and test demonstrators.

    To achieve the stated progress of the characteristics of helicopter engines, the CIAM defines a set of technologies that allow obtaining products of a given level of perfection. So to "Technologies 2025" are:


    1 Two-stage pulp and paper mill;
    2 Compact low-emission CS;
    3 RK turbine type "Bliss";
    4 Impeller of pulp and paper mill from KM;
    5 Compressor casing from CM Cabinet of CS from CM;
    6 KS Flare pipe from KM;
    7 CA turbine from CM;
    8 Hybrid bearings;
    9 Electric drive of units;
    10 Wireless sensors ACS;
    11 HIPCs with remote access;
    12 MGTD "complex" cycle with maintenance.


    "Technology 2035" includes:


    1 Uncooled RK turbines from KM;
    2 Case details in MS from KM;
    3 Uncooled oil supports;
    4 Shafts from CM.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:40 pm

    This article argues that PD-14 is already retrograde and Russia had a breakthrough engine with the NK-93 that apparently was largely neglected against direct orders of government... dunno

    https://vpk.name/news/231283_tormoznoi_put_nk93.html
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:33 am

    Austin wrote:CIAM PRESENTED PROSPECTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF HELICOPTER ENGINES

    https://www.aviaport.ru/news/2018/06/26/545147.html

    At the 11th International Helicopter Industry Exhibition HeliRussia 2018, held in late May, the Round Table "The Present and Future of Engine Building for Helicopters" was held, at which Yuri Fokin, Head of the Small-Scale Gas Turbine Engine (MGTD) Department of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM), was the keynote speaker. Below is a systematic presentation of his report.

    Introduction

    In the 1990-2000s, a dramatic situation developed in the domestic helicopter engine building, due to the fact that after the collapse of the USSR, Russia remained without serial production of helicopter engines, in particular, the main aircraft engine of the TV3-117 family, which was manufactured by Zaporizhzhya Motor Sich enterprise. In addition, for a long time, new domestic helicopter engines were not developed or commissioned. Some projects have been started, but have not been completed, for example, the RD-600 helicopter aircraft engine.

    The lack of domestic aircraft engines led to the fact that almost all domestic developed and modified helicopters were used aircraft engines of foreign production. Helicopters Ka-226, Ka-226T, Ansat, Ansat-U, Ka-62, Mi-26 use foreign-made engines. Now we are considering the option of using a foreign engine on a promising medium-sized transport helicopter. Moreover, even on the Mi-38 medium-capacity helicopter, the installation of a foreign engine was originally planned, and only the supplier's refusal to supply engines to Russia forced domestic developers to create a Russian engine (TV7-117V). Today, after many years of discussion, the issue of developing the serial production of VK-2500 engines in Russia has been resolved.

    What is done by the "United Engine-Building Corporation"


    Since the beginning of this decade, the program of import substitution in helicopter engine construction was launched, within which a very significant amount of work was carried out. The main results can be considered the development of the serial production of the VK-2500 family engines in Russia. In addition to assembling the engines of the basic version entirely from domestic components, work was carried out to create deeply upgraded VK-2500P / PS engines, in particular, VK-2500PС-03 certified for the newest Mi-171A2 helicopter. The VK-2500PS engine is a modification of the VK-2500 engine with a new fully digital control system of the FADEC type. Now the state joint testing of another modification of the VK-2500 VK-2500P engine for the modernized Mi-28NM helicopter, which is in the stage of flight tests, is on the agenda now.

    In addition, the helicopter engine TV7-117V for Mi-38 has been certified. The basic version was developed in the 1980s, but the engine was certified quite recently, the Certificate was obtained with certain limitations of the operational range. During 2018, the whole range of measures to expand the operational range within the framework of the Terms of Reference should be completed, Fokin added.

    We consider the possibility of developing a PD-12V engine for perspective heavy helicopters and VK-800V for light helicopters. So on the basis of the gas generator of the dual-path engine PD-14, intended for the passenger-oriented MS-21 airplane, the PD-12V engine for heavy Mi-26 helicopters is being developed. As for VK-800, work is now under way on an aircraft engine version intended for use in the power unit of the L-410 aircraft. At the same time, the CIAM supports the resumption of work on the creation of a helicopter version of VK-800V.

    Finally, work was started to shape the perspective helicopter engine. At present, the company "ODK-Klimov" forms proposals for a prospective engine under the "Prospective engine for helicopters" program, this project has not yet been examined by CIAM. But so far it is known that an aircraft engine will be offered in a larger class of power than TV7-117V, which exceeds the existing analogues in terms of manufacturability and specific mass.

    Creation of advanced scientific and technical reserve


    Creation of perspective aircraft engines is impossible without creation of advanced scientific and technical reserve (NTZ). The goals and programs of NTZ development are already defined. In accordance with the adopted program, prospective aircraft engines should have significantly better characteristics in comparison, for example,

    United Engine Corporation - Page 3 Engine10

    The main directions of the development of helicopter aircraft engines


    The specialists of CIAM developed seven main directions for the development of aircraft engines for prospective domestic helicopters

    United Engine Corporation - Page 3 Engine11

    Also the task is to improve the methods of 3D-design.

    To ensure these directions of work, the CIAM is developing a whole range of breakthrough technologies. Together with the enterprises of the branch, the institute implements a program called "Development of Technologies for Advanced MGTS and AAP", the aim of this program is the creation of eleven demonstrators of advanced technologies.
    Demonstration "electric" MGTD;

    1 High-speed reducer MGTD;
    2 Nozzle apparatus turbine from KM;
    3 Heat exchanger for MGTD "complex" cycle;
    4 Combustion chamber MGTD with elements from CM;
    5 Experimental single-stage pulp and paper mill
    6 Experimental two-stage PPM;
    7 High-speed stage of helicopter gearbox.
    8 Demonstration turbo-compound aviation piston engine;
    9 Demonstration MGTD on gas supports;
    10 Demonstration rotary-piston engine.


    In accordance with the program, in 2017, the planned design studies with conditional leveling for 2025 and 2035 technologies were performed, and in 2018-2019 it is planned to manufacture and test demonstrators.

    To achieve the stated progress of the characteristics of helicopter engines, the CIAM defines a set of technologies that allow obtaining products of a given level of perfection. So to "Technologies 2025" are:


    1 Two-stage pulp and paper mill;
    2 Compact low-emission CS;
    3 RK turbine type "Bliss";
    4 Impeller of pulp and paper mill from KM;
    5 Compressor casing from CM Cabinet of CS from CM;
    6 KS Flare pipe from KM;
    7 CA turbine from CM;
    8 Hybrid bearings;
    9 Electric drive of units;
    10 Wireless sensors ACS;
    11 HIPCs with remote access;
    12 MGTD "complex" cycle with maintenance.


    "Technology 2035" includes:


    1 Uncooled RK turbines from KM;
    2 Case details in MS from KM;
    3 Uncooled oil supports;
    4 Shafts from CM.

    Very interesting. So the VK-800 project has been recovered (first at turboprop for the let-410. (800-850 shp) and then as turboshaft for light helicopters (e.g kazan Ansat)..

    It would be interesting to know if the same engine, maybe a derated version, could be mounted on the ka-226 (now equipped with a french 580 shp engine), or if they would need to redesign and scale down the engine for it to be efficient.

    Later maybe they would also need a 300 shp engine for even smaller helicopters and drones (similar to the RR300)

    Also...any news on the RD-600V /TVD-1500
    1500 shp turboshaft/turboprop engine?
    It was planned to be used on fhe Ka-60 (now also mounting a french engine (1760shp)
    Or Russia will continue using foreign engines of this power until they will have a breakthrough in technologies?

    Actually, since they said they wanted to restart production in Russia of the Let-610, the bigger brother of the Let-410, they would need a 1600-1800 shp turboprop anyway...

    In addition, on the TVS-2DTS (upgraded An-2 with composite wings) demonstrator they used an american (honeywell TPE331) 1000shp engine... a domestic solution for this aircraft would also be important....

    so many projects needed on the whole range of sizes...
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:55 pm

    Details for Su-57's AL-41F-1 engines development

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3620231.html

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:15 pm

    https://aviation21.ru/denis-manturov-linejka-generatorov-pd-14-budet-dvigatsya-k-pd-12-i-pd-8/

    Denis Manturov: PD-14 generator line will move to PD-12 and PD-8

    Posted by 28.06.2019 | @AviaRu |  478

    Denis Manturov, Minister of Industry and Trade, told Zvezda how the program for testing PD-14 engines is developing, which will be installed on the Russian medium-haul narrow-body passenger aircraft MS-21.

    “Now the third car is connected to the tests. By the end of the year we will connect the fourth machine to the tests. That is, PD-14 will be placed on the first-class, but at the same time on the fifth car by its serial number (test cycle). In order not to change the engines in the future, but to put it on the MS-21 and further work on this aircraft. This work will begin early next year. I mean the test cycle from PD-14 to MS-21, ”said Denis Manturov.

    With regard to the development of the program in the future, the engine range based on the PD-14 generator will move downward - to the PD-12 and PD-8 engines.

    The Minister of Industry and Trade noted that now there is only one engine for helicopters in the mass segment - this is TV7-117, and the industry requires additional types of lighter engines.

    “We will need these engines for use in airplanes and transport aircraft, both civil and helicopters, which need their own engines. We are counting on the mass segment that will go to the Ansat, the Ka-62, and the lighter helicopters that the Russian Helicopters are currently developing. Plus, we are working on PD-35 - this is a super-heavy engine, 35 tons. Such an engine was not developed in Soviet times. It will go both to wide-body and long-haul aircraft and to military transport aviation, ”the head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade explained.
    on the smaller engine side (turboprop and turboshaft) they need for the ansat to replace the pratt &-witthney with 630 HP (470 kW), the Ka-62 has instead 2 Turbomeca (Safran) with 435 kW (580 hp) each. These could be replaced by the same engine (with different rating). On the even smaller side, they may want also an engine similar.to the Rolls-Royce M250 (250 hp (190kW)

    Furthermore they need engines for the new An-2 (1000hp(750kW)), for the let 410 (597 kW (800 hp)) and for the let 610 (1,305 kW (1,750 hp)).

    Probably they will also want an engine a bit more powerful then the Tv7-117 for the Il-112V (so maybe around 4000 hp(3000kW).
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:07 pm

    https://ria.ru/20190719/1556678335.html

    Russian engine for Ansat may appear in six years



    MOSCOW, July 18 - RIA News. The creation of a domestic engine for the Ansat helicopter in four years is an ambitious task, most likely it will take six years, the general director of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM) named after P.I. Baranova Mikhail Gordin.

    Earlier, the general director of the state corporation Rostec, Sergey Chemezov, on the program "Actors" on the TV channel "Russia 1" stated that the Russian engine for light helicopters, including the Ansat, will be ready in four years. He explained that today the engines for these helicopters are purchased in Canada.

    “I don’t know what kind of engine was meant, but I can say that there are plans to develop such an engine. In particular, there is an idea to“ reincarnate ”VK-800C back to VK-800V. Originally developed VK“ Klimov ”JSC helicopter engine VK -800V was transferred to the Ural Civil Aviation Plant to make it a power plant with an VK-800S engine to replace the American GE H80-200 on an L-410 aircraft. It was changed during the conversion from helicopter to aircraft, "said Gordin.

    According to him, the plant plans to return the helicopter version, which can be used on the Ansats. “There is a test program, a certification program, etc. What is a plus - this is, in fact, a ready-made engine that is being tested. If Russian Helicopters agree on this option, and most likely changes will be required in the helicopter itself,” Ansat "will be able to get a domestic engine based on VK-800V," explained Gordin.

    Speaking about the timing of the creation of such an engine, he noted that four years is a very ambitious task. "I would say in six years. Of course, everything depends on financing and desire. But the engine as a child is not born immediately. We need time and a set of tests, some of them cannot be completed faster. Something, of course, can be done if many prototypes, although it is expensive, "- said the general director of CIAM.

    In addition, Gordin said, JSC "ODK" and "Rostec" have plans to create their engines for the Ka-62 and Ka-226 helicopters. “These works are open, the timelines are very ambitious. The situation is a bit more complicated: there is a VK-800, but these engines are not there yet. However, there is a good scientific and technical background. This is not research, but development work that starts, In my opinion, it is correct, "- concluded the agency interlocutor.


    According to the info found in internet however, the VK-800 is more powerful and heavier than the french or canadian engines mounted on the Kazan Ansat and on the Ka-226.

    For the Ka-60 and Ka-62 it was originally planned to use the russian 1500hp RD-600V, from wich they planned to develop a turboprop aircraft engine TVD-1500, but I could read no recent news about possible status or development of such engines.

    Just to have an idea about the foreign helicopter engines currently needed replacement...

    Kazan Ansat has a Max. takeoff weight of 3,600 kg and is
    currently equipped with  2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PW207K turboshaft, 630 HP (470 kW) each.

    The Ka-226 has a Gross weight of 3800 kg and is powered by  2 french Turbomeca Arrius 2G1, 435 kW (580 hp) each

    The Ka-62 has a Max. takeoff weight of 6,500 kg and is equipped with 2 french Turbomeca Ardiden 3G turboshaft, 1,776 shp (1,324 kW) each


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    Post  Gazputin on Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:12 am

    did anyone read this …. basically the French urging the Russians to not replace French engines but focus on replacing the USA bits …
    fascinating ….

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2019-07-22/safran-urges-russia-make-substitutes-us-engine-parts

    and this one about developing a supersonic business jet - mini airliner
    and the needs for a new engine … yes, another one

    But Ivanov added, “The main problem, however, is related with engines that will be used on such aircraft. The questions of particular importance are resource and cost-effectiveness of these engines, as well as the possibility of their use on other aircraft.”

    in other words we could stick military engines in it …. but you couldn't operate the aircraft economically
    CIAM said elsewhere they had just started studying the new engine ….

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-08-02/russia-begins-wind-tunnel-testing-ssbj

    will they do this project with the French ? …. again …..

    the same thing keeps coming up doesn't it …. engine development is much longer than the aircraft ...
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:27 pm

    Gazputin wrote:did anyone read this …. basically the French urging the Russians to not replace French engines but focus on replacing the USA bits …
    fascinating ….

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2019-07-22/safran-urges-russia-make-substitutes-us-engine-parts.
    Yeah, it was already discussed in the russian civil svistion thread
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:34 pm

    By the way...interesting article on the PD-14'
    They plan to be able to produce 50 engine per year by 2025 (currently they can produce 3-4 engines per year)


    https://aviation21.ru/odk-permskie-motory-narastit-vypusk-dvigatelej-pd-14/

    [b]UEC Perm Motors will increase the production of PD-14 engines[b]

    Posted by 08/09/2019 | @AviaRu |  189

    The pace of engine production for the MS-21 aircraft will be increased, the managing director of UEC Perm Motors JSC Sergey Popov told reporters. Reported by "Interfax"

    “At present, we can produce 3-4 engines per year. The task set by UEC and the customer is to reach the level of 50 sets, 50 engines per year by 2025,” said Popov.

    He said that PD-14 engines will be installed on serial MS-21s in the first quarter of 2020. “There are such agreements with Irkut,” said the managing director. Now the fourth prototype aircraft, on which PD-14 engines are already installed, is preparing for flight tests.

    Popov said that UEC Perm Motors has applied to the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation to receive financing for the PD-14 after-sales service program. This includes the creation of a pool of replacement engines, warehouses and filling them with spare parts, the creation of repair production and repair points in the main operating areas of MS-21 aircraft. In particular, it is planned that such a repair base will appear on the territory of the Moscow Aviation Hub, where a modular repair workshop will be organized, which will allow local repairs to be carried out quickly without sending the engine to Perm.

    "We are closely watching the competitors, Pratt & Whitney, what efforts they made to always have a pool of replacement engines," said Popov. He explained that it is necessary to create an after-sales service management information system that will allow each customer to keep track of the situation for each engine, as well as more efficiently distribute spare parts.

    The total amount of financing is estimated at 36 billion rubles. It will be divided into several stages within the framework of systematic work until 2030. Popov expects that the allocation of funds for the formation of software will begin in 2020.

    Popov also informed that the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) plans to pass certification of production of PD-14 engines in Perm in 2020.

    “In 2018, we sent documents to EASA, a discussion took place for a whole year. In March 2019, the EASA commission made its first visit, the next visits will take place in September-October this year. They also plan to arrive in spring and autumn 2020. Based on these of audits, the plant should receive a certificate for the production of PD-14 engines according to European norms and rules, "said Popov.

    PD-14 is a basic turbofan engine, which was created in a wide cooperation of UEC enterprises for the MS-21-300 airliner using the latest technologies and materials, including composite ones.

    The PD-14 engine is being created as part of a program to develop a family of aircraft engines with thrust from 12.5 tons to 18 tons for use on passenger and transport aircraft of various types, including for the promising MS-21 airliner.


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    Post  Gazputin on Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:02 am

    yeah saw that …

    I thought they said they want to get up to 70x MC-21s p.a. = 140 PD-14s p.a. …. excluding spares
    50 pa is realistically ….. 20x MC-21s p.a. …… + spares
    the size of the task is becoming clear ….

    They'll still be pretty busy making PS-90s for the Il-76 and IL-96 …..
    and they make a lot of gas turbines for Gazprom re gas pumping based on PS-90 too apparently
    probably 50-100 there ….

    add to that all the military jet engines …. easily 200-300 pa
    add the helicopter engines ….. 200-300 pa
    and the turboprops for the Il-112 and 114 …… 75-100 pa
    and they're talking of Russia turboprops on the L-410s ….. 50-75 pa there
    Sam engines for SSJs ……. 50-75 pa
    Gas turbines for Navy ships ….

    you're talking 1000 gas turbines p.a. ….. 20/week ….. 4/day

    UEC is under a lot of pressure …. that's for sure since the Ukraine CIA Coup
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:29 am

    Gazputin wrote:yeah saw that …

    I thought they said they want to get up to 70x MC-21s p.a. = 140 PD-14s p.a.  …. excluding spares
    50 pa is realistically ….. 20x MC-21s p.a. …… + spares
    the size of the task is becoming clear ….
    Half of the MC-21 will have pratt.&.whittney engines, at least.at the beginning. Later they can create a new production line somewhere else (e.g. in the far east)
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    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:19 am

    They expect to sell about 300 PD-14 's to Russian customers
    https://www.aex.ru/m/news/2019/8/9/200635/

    The government allocates $3 Billion for the development of the PD-35

    The PD-35 is needed not only for Russian-Chinese wide-body passenger aircraft but also for the IL-476, IL-478, the IL-96-400, and will be the base engine for the promising aviation complex of the military transport aviation (PAK-TA)
    https://www.aex.ru/m/news/2019/8/9/200623/
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:53 pm

    https://iz.ru/908313/2019-08-09/v-kitae-zainteresovalis-rossiiskimi-dvigateliami-pd-14

    China is interested in Russian PD-14 engines

    August 9, 2019 13:09

    Chinese authorities are interested in buying the latest Russian PD-14 engines. This was told by Managing Director - General Designer of JSC "UEC-Aviadvigatel" Alexander Inozemtsev on August 9.

    “They show interest in our PD-14, they will come to us and discuss it just next week, ” RIA Novosti quoted him as saying .

    The PD-14 engine successfully passed certification in 2018, work is underway to improve it and prepare for mass production. Presumably, PD-14 will be delivered as part of a propulsion system with an air intake, hoods and a reversing device.



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    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:14 am

    LMFS wrote:This article argues that PD-14 is already retrograde and Russia had a breakthrough engine with the NK-93 that apparently was largely neglected against direct orders of government... dunno

    https://vpk.name/news/231283_tormoznoi_put_nk93.html

    There is a lot of talk about this wondrous tech that was for some mysterious reason abandoned. Either there is a giant conspiracy
    or it ain't all its cracked out to be. Occam's razor indicates the latter option is more likely. I fail to see what the incentive is
    to kill off good technology. I recall all the BS about some wonder carburetor that allowed gasoline engines to run on water.
    Patent drivel by people who have no education in physics. Water is not a fuel and hydrogen released from it requires some other
    energy source. So steam explosions are possible but only because of high heat already achieved via some other means. If
    this early 1990s engine was such a revolution, it would have been used one way or another. Its advocates are likely exaggerating
    its efficiency and reliability.

    The PD-14 is not just a turbofan design, it is a modular combustion chamber design that is supposed to scale to PD-35 and PD-7
    without starting from scratch. I doubt that the current design is inferior in any way that matters. The designers aren't morons
    and their paychecks are not issued by companies intent on failure. By contrast, the internet and various news media love
    click bait sensationalism and are routinely engaged in spin and fake news production.



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    Post  Gazputin on Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:52 am

    PD-14 like most of these "high tech" engines has a compact core that runs at insane temperatures
    so the core of these "energy efficient" engines is the core that runs at temperatures similar to the Sun's surface

    so when you are talking about a PD-35 …. its the same high-temp core of the PD-14 but with a lot more high bypass

    these engines aren't about more "power" they are more about efficient cruise mode …
    eg I have seen no evidence at all that the PD-14 has more takeoff lift than the PS-90 …
    its all about economy

    in fact high bypass turbofans are more like a turboprop than a turbojet

    so high bypass engines are civil …. not military
    especially Russia as a fossil fuel exporter …. their military I suspect couldn't give a rat's arse …
    I'd run PS-90s for at least 10 more years

    anyway anecdotal evidence says …. new engine 10yrs
    variant on existing engine 5-7 years …..

    translation ? …. it amazes me that this isn't the no.1 blog on this site ….

    this blog cuts to the core ….. the Russians can build any aircraft standing on their dicks …..
    their no.1 issue is ….. powerplants

    gas turbines are the no.1 issue for Russia …. everything else ….. 4th or 5th place …..
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    Post  Gazputin on Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:56 am

    engines for Mig-31 …. back in production …

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-08-13/russia-relaunches-production-engine-cores-mig-31

    maybe ….. as this is low bypass …. for the Mig-41 ….. use this engine and use ramjet bypass as in SR-71 ….
    you can smell this ….. genius …. as always
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    Post  marcellogo on Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 pm

    Gazputin wrote:engines for Mig-31 …. back in production …

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-08-13/russia-relaunches-production-engine-cores-mig-31

    maybe ….. as this is low bypass …. for the Mig-41  ….. use this engine and use ramjet bypass as in SR-71 ….
    you can smell this ….. genius …. as always

    In the meantime let's begin serial production of MiG-31M..
    .
    You would get the same effect you actually have with building Tu-160M2.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:00 pm

    Gazputin wrote:engines for Mig-31 …. back in production …

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-08-13/russia-relaunches-production-engine-cores-mig-31

    maybe ….. as this is low bypass …. for the Mig-41  ….. use this engine and use ramjet bypass as in SR-71 ….
    you can smell this ….. genius …. as always

    I understand the importance of producing newly built cores for the mig-31 engines, extremely important if they want to keep them operating as long as possible. (I believe they also have more than 100 mig-31 in reserve, that could be modernised and put back in service).

    It remains, however, a 40 years old engine. For sure they will have something quite different for the Mig-41.

    In addition, probably they do not need entire new engines, since normally the hot core is the one that have the shorter life. Since they are not building new mig-31, they just need to replace the parts that are at the end of their lifecycle.

    The Tu-160 is another matter, as it is a much bigger aircraft (and engine), and I believe they want to fully modernise the engine also.

    In addition, differently from the mig-31, they do not have any Tu-160 in reserve that could be brought back in service, as not many were built and several were destroyed by the ukraine, so they need to restart production anyway.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:05 am

    Gazputin wrote:engines for Mig-31 …. back in production …

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-08-13/russia-relaunches-production-engine-cores-mig-31

    maybe ….. as this is low bypass …. for the Mig-41  ….. use this engine and use ramjet bypass as in SR-71 ….
    you can smell this ….. genius …. as always

    Rehashing a 60 year design isn't genius. SR-71's weren't even capable of carrying a combat load, if they did they would still be in service. Why have a more complex combined ramjet design, when their perfecting a less complex higher performing scramjet design with Zircon? Even if it requires a combined rocket engine propulsion (which would ironically be less complex), it will still be okay....ironically enough the Russians mastered the ability to create rocket fuel from the atmosphere and even sustained rocket fuel could be theoretically done. Apparently one of the support vehicles for Topol-M is capable of creating rocket fuel from the air through some unknown process, which was revealed/reported something like 3 years ago.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:24 am

    For a missile a scramjet has a huge hollow core where the air flows through that has to be empty for the engine to operate... on a missile that is launched once and then destroyed when used correctly having a solid rocket booster in that empty space to get the missile moving so the scramjet can be started makes a lot of sense.

    For an aircraft that can take off and land and be used thousands of times it makes more sense to have a propulsion that can handle both very high speeds but also takeoff and landing speeds and everything in between.

    A scramjet can operate at very low airspeeds, but it is not a particularly efficient engine if you operate only at subsonic speeds, and equally if you operate most of the time at transsonic speeds then a scramjet is actually a very poor choice.

    For very high speeds a ramjet or a scramjet makes sense because above mach 2.4 it is really the only practical propulsion choice other than rocket.

    Putting engines for teh MiG-31 back in to production makes sense because the reason they have so many in storage is probably lack of engines... with new engines they would likely have quite a few more operational MiG-31s.

    If they are making the engines again there is no sense in making them the way they used to make them. They will be making them in new factories with new materials and new potential to improve certain aspects of the engine design without creating a brand new engine design.

    Restarting engine production for the Tu-160 is different because they are making another 50 (which means they need minimum another 200 engines), and also there were plans for the Tu-22M3M to use the same engines, so however many of them they make times two plus spares.

    The PD-35 engine is based on the NK-32, so making new ones makes sense anyway as it will be used for a wide range of aircraft from the Il-106, An-124 upgrade, and An-124 and An-225 replacement aircraft, as well as the PAK DA and the transport PAK TA... (which is probably the An-124/225 replacement) and will also be used on the Il-96M as well.

    The engine the MiG-41 will be unrelated to anything in operation now and might start out being a variable cycle low bypass turbofan/ramjet engine.
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    Post  Gazputin on Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:41 am

    this is an interesting aircraft / engine

    https://boomsupersonic.com/company

    they plan to go supersonic - with a boom over the oceans and want to hit Mach 2.2
    the engine they are talking about using is a relatively old medium bypass GE CF-34 used on subsonic business jets etc

    on their website they talk about "proprietory variable geometry inlet and exhaust ramps "
    so they are going to use an "old" engine as its bypass ratio isn't too high … but still gives reasonable economy
    resurrecting Concorde/SR-71 type systems by the look of it ...

    so anyway reading the fine print …. who is the engine guy ? …. he lead the certification of the CF-34 …. in the 1980-90s - and worked on the SR-71 ...

    Tim Conners
    Lead Engineer, Propulsion
    Tim Conners is Lead Propulsion Engineer at Boom. His alma mater is the University of Cincinnati, and he has over three decades experience since graduating with a degree in Aerospace Engineering. He previously worked for NASA Dryden as propulsion test engineer on several high-performance platforms, including the SR-71 Blackbird and F-15 Eagle. At General Electric, he led operability certification of the CF34-8 turbofan engine series. At Gulfstream Aerospace, Conners owned preliminary design for supersonic propulsion systems; and at Raytheon Missile Systems, he led hypersonic aerodynamics.

    so there's some sort of Concorde/SR-71 style ramjet idea going on here - where the main engine is mostly idling at serious speed …

    so why wouldn't Russia start with its "old" Mig-31 engine and do similar inlet and exhaust ramps … ? for the Mig-41

    and maybe this whole thing also relates to Tupolev's proposed supersonic business jet …. which is pretty big ….. 30 passengers

    sounds weird re different speed envelopes - but the same engine core is used on Il-76s and the Mig-31 apparently

    one thing is for sure …. you'd rather start from an existing engine core that is well understood to save time - other wise you are looking at 10 yrs for a cleansheet design …. and how do you justify the cost ? that's what I'd be doing

    think I also read somewhere that GE's "Adaptive cycle" engine - is based around the relatively old CFM airliner engine core too …..

    let's face it modern day high bypass jet engines have more in common with turboprops than older jet engines … so resurrecting an old production line may not be as crazy as you think …

    Boom don't seem too worried about using "old engines" …. as a core for a form of variable cycle thrust system







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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:23 am

    They are happy to use the old engines because their proposed aircraft will really only use the old engines for takeoff and landing... most of the cruising will be using the ramjet component so thrust performance and fuel burn for the takeoff and landing engine is not really as important as having a solid reliable engine.

    The problem for the MiG-41 is that it might roar around at top speed a lot, but it might also need to loiter in an area to look for targets too so it needs to be able to move very fast and also at common normal subsonic speeds too depending upon the situation.

    They are aiming for very high flight speeds and this is a new aircraft that wont enter operation till at least 2028 or later, so there is plenty of time to design and build a custom designed brand new engine using new technology and materials and shapes.

    To take the pressure off them they are putting the old engines back into production so existing MiG-31s can continue to operate, and a lot of MiG-31s currently in storage can be re-engined and brought out and upgraded too... I rather suspect that before they are retired they will likely get new radar sets too with this new technology radar systems they are working on.

    Many years ago there were early presentations of Su-35s with some white missiles of the future... some of them looked like 9M96 missiles to be honest.

    Perhaps other ground launched SAMs could be adapted as air to air missiles for the purposes of long range air defence.

    A 150km range 9M96 launched from 20km altitude at mach 3 should be able to reach rather more than the 150km it reaches from being launched from the ground... and it is already designed and in production for the Air Force (as a SAM) and Navy (as a SAM).
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    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:31 pm

    Interview with General Designer of the United Engine Corporation Yuri Shmotin


    Key projects are PD-14 and PD-35 for civil aviation.

    - UEC plans to create a modified and more powerful PD-16 engine for the larger-capacity MC-21-400 airliner on the basis of the latest PD-14 engine. The UEC's aim is to make one basic unified gas generator and an engine based on it, which in the future will be produced in series and will not require modifications for similar aircraft.
    Three PD-14 engines have already been delivered to Irkut Corporation for installation on the MC-21. Further deliveries will go according to contracted schedule.
    - The PD-35 program involves the creation of a large thrust engine with a deadline for the completion of development work in 2027. The engine is designed to be offered for the CR929 wide-body long-range aircraft. There are negotiations with the Chinese side on the configuration of this program. Much will depend on the work on the plane. The Il-96 also can be equipped with such an engine.

    There are other equally important projects. This is, firstly, TV7-117ST-01 for the Il-114-300 aircraft and the TV7-117ST engine unified with it for the Il-112V.

    Two other projects have been launched with the designers of these engines UEC-Klimov.

    - The first is the VK-650V engine for the Ka-226. Based on the solutions for this engine, a family of power plants from 500 to 700 horsepower can be created. It will be offered for Ansat also.
    - The second project is VK-1600V. This is the main engine that will be installed on the Ka-62 helicopter as a replacement for a French engine Ardiden 3G.

    - Work is being done today on engines for combat aircraft of the AL-41 family, as well as on a promising engine for Su-57.

    - The UEC completed work on the defense ministry's order to develop basic gas turbine engines of 8,000 to 25,000 horsepower for the Russian Navy. These are the M70 family engines for both Zubr- and Murena-class ships on air cushions, as well as the very expected M90FR engine for ships of projects 22350 and 20386. These engines allow to create almost the entire range of power units for Russian Navy ships and to cover the needs of the defense ministry.

    - Regarding "perspective helicopter engine" project. UEC is working on an engine suitable for both helicopters and airplanes. This project is now called PDV-4000 [PDV stands for future helicopter engine]. Τhis power system will be a new generation engine of 4,000-5,000 horsepower.

    - UEC is doing preliminary work on an engine for Sukhoi Superjet, which will be superior to currently using SaM146 (made by a Russian-French company), and could design one in the foreseeable future if there will be a deal with the plane manufacturer.

    - UEC is considering the possibility of creating an engine for a supersonic aircraft by 2024. Exploratory research stage.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3767234.html
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    Post  PhSt Today at 2:29 am

    UEC will launch in 2023 a series of production of Russian engines for the Ka-62 helicopter

    Rybinsk, December 6. / TASS /. Serial production of the Russian engine for the Ka-62 multi-purpose light helicopter is planned to begin in 2023, Anatoly Serdyukov, industrial director of the Rostec aviation cluster, told reporters.

    "By the end of the first quarter of 2020, it is planned to issue design documentation for testing engine assemblies as part of autonomous units and start testing the assemblies. A type certificate for the VK-1600V engine is planned to be received in April 2023, it is planned to begin mass production in the same year," - he said.

    According to Serdyukov, UEC-Klimov is developing gas turbine engines for helicopters of the Ka-62 class with the possibility of modernization for aircraft types with take-off weight of up to 6.5 tons.

    At the end of December this year, the company plans to get an opinion on a preliminary design of the engine, he said.

    Serial production of a helicopter with a foreign engine is planned to begin in 2020.

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