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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:26 pm

    I´m pretty sure they tested it. Building such a facility brings a lot of money! But it´s a controlled enviroment, like a laboratory, not a working ship.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:27 am

    Hole wrote:I´m pretty sure they tested it. Building such a facility brings a lot of money! But it´s a controlled enviroment, like a laboratory, not a working ship.

    Actually, AFAIK they did no such thing, short of R&D testing of prototype components, and the under-performance and severe reliability issues of the Fords EMAL is testimony to that fact. They intended to progress the design while constructing, and sort out the bugs during vessel shakedown, and its proved to be a clusterf*ck.

    There is a real possibility that the Ford will need to be painted white and have a huge pair of tusks installed on either side of the bow... Very Happy Her prestige value to the USN will be on a par with the mighty Zumwalt sans railgunz and smart solid-gold arty shells! Very Happy or the LCS failed-effort at creating an effective cheap light combatant.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:35 am

    Remove the EMALS & arrestors, hand it over to the Marines for a super Assault Carrier? dunno
    Though they'd also have to rebuild the deck to handle F-35B exhaust heat...

    Better: remove EMALS, keep arrestors (did they actually get those working properly yet?) build ski-jump & suddenly discover that STOBAR is actually a fantastic idea! Laughing
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:54 am

    A few billions will solve all this problems. And if they don´t, the western PR machine will pretend that this is the best ship ever constructed. If you question it you are an agent of Putin!
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    George1

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:51 pm

    The history of developing Russian Navy’s flagship and its combat capabilities in TASS special project

    http://kuznetsov.tass.com/?_ga=2.196697131.625469590.1532436163-1492458617.1519912914
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:28 am

    hoom wrote:Remove the EMALS & arrestors, hand it over to the Marines for a super Assault Carrier? dunno

    Assault Carriers need to be able to carry vehicles, manpower and munitions and to carry landing craft for delivering them to shore. Nah, either the Ford gets fixed to do the job its intended to do or her White Elephant status will become official. Very Happy
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:39 am

    George1 wrote:The history of developing Russian Navy’s flagship and its combat capabilities in TASS special project

    http://kuznetsov.tass.com/?_ga=2.196697131.625469590.1532436163-1492458617.1519912914

    Nice article thumbsup The grand old lady gets rough treatment by the NWO media presstitutes, but she will be an order of magnitude more effective when her make-over is completed.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:46 pm

    Assault Carriers need to be able to carry vehicles, manpower and munitions and to carry landing craft for delivering them to shore.
    First two America class are without well decks, various other bits optimised for aviation focus.
    I imagine you could fit a lot of vehicles, manpower & munitions in the existing hangar, accommodation & magazines of Ford while still carrying more aircraft than an America/Wasp.
    Anyway, just making a bit of a joke pirat
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:50 pm

    But you would need cranes to bring the vehicles onto land.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:06 am

    Well you'd obviously add same vehicle handling gear as on the Americas, presumably it carries only fairly small, chopper liftable stuff anyway?

    Oh oh just thought of a new possibility: rip out the deck above the hangar & fill with VLS -> Arsenal Ship!

    Well back on topic:
    This is a pretty interesting pic

    I think pilot approach was too high & is climbing out after waving off?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:07 am

    Actually, AFAIK they did no such thing, short of R&D testing of prototype components, and the under-performance and severe reliability issues of the Fords EMAL is testimony to that fact. They intended to progress the design while constructing, and sort out the bugs during vessel shakedown, and its proved to be a clusterf*ck.

    The technologies needed for an EMALS system have a range of other applications and are seriously the sort of stuff you find as you make your way through the black mesa plant in Half Life.

    Of course it wont be perfect... it took decades to get steam cats right too... and lots of expensive planes ended up in the drink.

    Experience with steam cats means nothing with EMALs, so the Americans are not in a better position to build one than anyone else... in fact it comes to materials and physics... I would say Russia is in no worse a position... except funding... obviously the Americans throw money at problems which can sometimes help.

    Hopefully the Russians look at all the applications and have a much broader team working on this and other similar programmes to solve the problems.

    There is a real possibility that the Ford will need to be painted white and have a huge pair of tusks installed on either side of the bow...

    Possibility... with Kinzhal and Poseiden... that ship has already sailed... Twisted Evil

    Not to mention the economic collapse Trump is causing...

    But you would need cranes to bring the vehicles onto land.

    EM cats to throw them ashore... super fast deployment...

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:03 pm

    Now for something completely different...



    That's a fair lift... Very Happy
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:11 pm

    Stands at the yard in Nikolayev. Should be able to lift a whole class of typical school kids from Amiland. Laughing

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:58 am

    That's a fair lift... Very Happy
    Shipbuilding stuff is so huge it blows my mind, would like to get to see a proper shipyard sometime.

    Recent pic, I believe thats 3 boilers on the deck.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:54 am

    Some 2014 shots of Adm. K with/from icebreakers:
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:24 pm


    Capt(N)
    ‏ @Capt_Navy
    7h7 hours ago

    The new turbo-pressurised boilers on deck of the aircraft carrier RFS 'Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov'.


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    LMFS

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  LMFS on Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:03 pm

    Source: the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" will be put in the dock from 14 to 17 September

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5538769
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:31 pm

    ASTOUNDING NEWS - an article on "national Interest" on the Kuznetsov that isn't a pile of propaganda Bravo-Sierra...

    Why Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier Pumps Out So Much Black Smoke

    hese engineering difficulties are also given as a potential reason for the Kuznetsov's super-smoky nature. Vice Admiral Pyotr Svyatashov explained, saying that because of improper calibration in the preheating or injection mechanisms, the Mazut injected into the combustion chamber might not have had time to combust fully—in other words, the partially burned products are causing the black smoke.

    For most sailors who served on the Admiral Kuznetzov, Mazut is the stuff of legends. The ultra thick, tarry black substance that powers the ship is known for being rather toxic, sticky, and not easy to get out of clothes. But why did the Soviet navy keep powering its ships with Mazut? What are the advantages and disadvantages of the fuel? Why exactly is the Kuznetsov so smoky?

    Not all Russian ships run on Mazut. Of all the large ships the current Russian Navy operates, only the Sovremenny-class destroyers and the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier run on Mazut. Given the large profile the Admiral Kuznetsov on the global scene—being Russia's only aircraft carrier—naturally, some curiosity has arisen about what it runs on and why it produces so much smoke.

    Mazut is a heavy petrochemical fuel . While most sources refer it to being taken from the very bottom of a distillation stack, this is inaccurate as "mazut" is a blanket term for very-heavy oil products, including those that can be formed from blending heavier oils with some slightly lighter ones.

    In the West, Mazut would fall into the Bunker B and Bunker C fuel oil classifications, although the ISO 8217 standard has superseded these categories. Under the ISO 8217 standard, Mazut may be classified as RMG or RMK fuel.

    These thick, heavy fuels were, by and large, the standard for both military and commercial vessels up until the 1960s and 1970s. Their thick nature gave them a very high volume to energy ratio compared with lighter distillates. But to be burned, they often had to be preheated and pressurized in a complex series of boilers and pipes.

    Burning these fuels could also produce large amounts of sulfur, as such heavy minerals tended to settle to the bottom of a distillation stack. As a result, these fuels can be expensive to procure in nations with higher environmental standards as they must be distilled from crude with a low initial sulfur content or removed via a chemical process.

    For these reasons, Western navies began to transition to gas turbine propulsion in the 1960s and 1970s. Gas turbines use natural gas and distillate fuels, not heavy bunker fuels. Currently, all U.S. Navy ships use gas turbines for propulsion except those powered by nuclear power or the Freedom-class, which uses an electrical drive system.

    However, the Soviet Navy seemed hesitant to make such a complete shift to gas turbines. While the Slava-class cruisers laid down in the 1970s used gas turbines, the Sovremenny-class destroyers laid down in the same era still were designed with a Mazut-powered propulsion system, reportedly due to the inability of the Soviet industry to produce enough turbines at the time. The later Udaloy-class destroyers continued the trend of using gas turbines.

    The big question is why the Admiral Kuznetsov continued to use Mazut. Nuclear power was an option on the table, as the Kirov-class battlecruisers being designed around the same time used nuclear power plants—although the later Ulyanovsk-class of carriers planned to use nuclear power. One possible reason was that the class was partially based on the hull shape and layout of the earlier Kiev-class carriers, which ran on Mazut.

    While Mazut was definitely not an optimal fuel choice for the Admiral Kuznetsov, its long and troubled construction process only compounded the problems. A Russian news article describes the Kuznetsov as having a “weak heart” due to the poor standards of shipbuilding when it was being completed in the 1990s in the Nikolayev Black Sea Shipyard in Mykolaiv.

    Furthermore, Admiral Valentin Selivanov said, “From the very beginning, poor quality pipes were installed in her boilers.” The same admiral then went onto describe the Kuznetsov's 1990s sea trials. Due to the problems with the pipes, not all boilers could run at full capacity all the time, and they would often break down. Sometimes the ship was reduced to operating on one boiler, giving it a speed of around 4 knots. These same reliability problems lead to the Russian Navy sending tugs to accompany the Kuznetsov during its 2016 trip to the Syrian coast.

    These engineering difficulties are also given as a potential reason for the Kuznetsov's super-smoky nature. Vice Admiral Pyotr Svyatashov explained, saying that because of improper calibration in the preheating or injection mechanisms, the Mazut injected into the combustion chamber might not have had time to combust fully—in other words, the partially burned products are causing the black smoke.

    This is supported by some other analysts , who say that the exhaust color can be widely classified into three colors—grey for oil, white for water, and black for fuel. Some blogs have gone into further analysis of the potential mechanical problems that may cause black smoke, albeit on the Sovremenny-class ships, which have suffered their own bouts of black smoke.

    However, some Russian military experts have attempted to downplay the problem entirely. Admiral Ivan Vasiliyev said on the show “Tsargrad” that the black smoke was a deliberate move to show the British that the Admiral Kuznetsov was there, as per “seaman’s tradition.”

    Full article
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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:36 pm

    So with the modenization no more black smoke ?
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:32 am

    Isos wrote:So with the modenization no more black smoke ?
    Precisely.  What ever will the HATOstani trollz do without being able to laugh at the K's smoke plume?  Poor little dears, they will be inconsolable with their loss...  Laughing
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:15 am

    Also no tug will be needed to follow it!
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    x_54_u43

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  x_54_u43 on Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:59 am

    Tug is simply standard procedure for long range naval sorties, they also double as logistic vessels(fuel and such), there are photos of Kuz being refueled from one on it's Syria deployment.
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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:45 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:So with the modenization no more black smoke ?
    Precisely.  What ever will the HATOstani trollz do without being able to laugh at the K's smoke plume?  Poor little dears, they will be inconsolable with their loss...  Laughing

    Don't talk too fast. If it leeps smocking it will be a real problem because that would mean their naval industry sucks for real.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:26 am

    Isos wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Isos wrote:So with the modenization no more black smoke ?
    Precisely.  What ever will the HATOstani trollz do without being able to laugh at the K's smoke plume?  Poor little dears, they will be inconsolable with their loss...  Laughing

    Don't talk too fast. If it leeps smocking it will be a real problem because that would mean their naval industry sucks for real.

    Why would it continue to smoke with all-new turbo-boilers ????? Suspect ffs...
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:27 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:Tug is simply standard procedure for long range naval sorties, they also double as logistic vessels(fuel and such), there are photos of Kuz being refueled from one on it's Syria deployment.
    Maybe it was getting fuel from the Adm. K. I never heard of an ocean tug supplying fuel to a ship. But sometimes CV/Ns refuel smaller ships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underway_replenishment#/media/File:Rentz_and_Ranger_Unrep.jpg

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