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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:50 am

    That's an old captured German dock from WWII. There is also dock 82 but it may not be suitable or it would've been mentioned already: https://www.korabel.ru/news/comments/novaya_veha_82_srz_rakurs_buduschego.html
    Source: the rise of a floating dock in Murmansk will take at least six months


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:31 pm

    Interesting, there is actually a new shipyard being built directly opposite where PD-50 is, with 2* drydocks easily big enough for K expected to be completed in 2020.
    But its going to be making LNG production modules.

    Perhaps the replacement plan for PD-50 was to start using that once its order book eases off?
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:43 pm

    Pl. include sources for every piece of news. IMO, if there's urgency to refit warships, they'll be given a priority over commercial shipbuilding.
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:07 pm

    If the yard is private, it is money that matters. If the Navy pays, the ship will be repaired.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:30 pm

    They can put all kinds of pressure on them using carrot & stick tactic in the negotiation of contracts. Moscow can prevent them from getting future contracts should they not agree. Every1 there understands that w/o a strong fleet there's no strong defense & no respect & consideration from others, like it was in the 1990s.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:29 am

    I'm talking about the facility at Belokamenka for Novatek
    https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/industry-and-energy/2018/01/we-are-making-murmansk-world-leader-oil-and-gas-says-novatek-0
    https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/industry-and-energy/2017/06/four-artificial-islands-will-be-built-kola-bay
    They started building last year, expected completion in 2020.

    Pretty sure Oil/Gas gets priority over Navy but the location would make it handy for Navy work once the Oil/Gas stuff tapers off.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:25 am

    Pics of K https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3403576.html
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:20 am

    Didn´t someone on this forum say that Kuznetsov needs a bigger crane? Very Happy
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:31 pm

    This story must be partial.

    If the blackout caused the dock to sink then it has holes on it.
    Means thy had to run the pumps 24/7 to keep it float.

    So, as soon as there was no electricity the dock started to tilt, so they choose to sunk it, causing same damage to the Kuz rather than to capsize the carrier.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:40 pm

    Risks lifting the dock; it may not be feasible: https://news.rambler.ru/army/41197213-plavdok-admirala-kuznetsova-okazalsya-nepodemnym/?readmore

    After the refit, they better transfer her to the Black Sea, so winter storm related damage to power supply won't happen again. Bigger docks can be built/brought  there, the local weather is better for training, added firepower won't hurt, & the Med. Sea & the Indian Ocean r much closer.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

    marat

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  marat on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:52 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Risks lifting the dock; it may not be feasible: https://news.rambler.ru/army/41197213-plavdok-admirala-kuznetsova-okazalsya-nepodemnym/?readmore

    After the refit, they better transfer her to the Black Sea, so winter storm related damage to power supply won't happen again. Bigger docks can be built/brought  there, the local weather is better for training, added firepower won't hurt, & the Med. Sea & the Indian Ocean r much closer.

    And in Black Sea you will use dock for what?

    You do not expect Carrier and SSBN to pass Bosporus and Dardanelles don't you?
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:13 pm

    It's a TAKR, not CV, & we already discussed the issue on this & other threads. Also, a big dock can be used by several ships & subs.
    SSBNs can be sent there w/o BMs, if need be.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:07 am

    If the blackout caused the dock to sink then it has holes on it.
    Means thy had to run the pumps 24/7 to keep it float.

    So, as soon as there was no electricity the dock started to tilt, so they choose to sunk it, causing same damage to the Kuz rather than to capsize the carrier.
    I think the official line is they were in process of taking K out of dock & the power loss caused them to lose control/couldn't manually stabilise in time.

    Haven't seen any evidence yet to support the claim of K suffering flooding (which would disprove the official line), the first couple of pics possibly show a starboard list but could be a perspective illusion, the crane pics it looks even keel.


    After the refit, they better transfer her to the Black Sea, so winter storm related damage to power supply won't happen again.
    No they just need to maintain the onboard generators of floating docks so that there is a functional backup to cheaper shore power.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:40 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:It's a TAKR, not CV, & we already discussed the issue on this & other threads. Also, a big dock can be used by several ships & subs.
    SSBNs can be sent there w/o BMs, if need be.

    Once it enters Black Sea it's not leaving ever (if it could get there in the first place)



    Hole wrote:Didn´t someone on this forum say that Kuznetsov needs a bigger crane? Very Happy

    She's got one now, it's positively gargantuan! lol1
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:34 am

    Means thy had to run the pumps 24/7 to keep it float.
    Is that's how it was supposed to be? Why couldn't they trim with ballast & close the filling/drain holes? Also, it's not safe to pull a ship out at night, so it was an emergency. Yes, some compartments were flooded as it wasn't sealed for boiler work & the crew saved her.

    A Huge Floating Drydock Sank and Nearly took Russia’s Only Aircraft Carrier with It

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201811041069500916-admiral-kuznetsov-photos/
    https://www.janes.com/article/84216/russia-s-sole-aircraft-carrier-damaged-by-sinking-of-floating-dock
    https://jamestown.org/program/russian-navy-suffers-another-blow-as-aircraft-carrier-is-damaged-while-undergoing-repairs/
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:46 am

    Once it enters Black Sea it's not leaving ever (if it could get there in the first place)
    Never say 'never"! If it's refitted & still breaks down, the towing distance will be a lot shorter.
    Also, Turkey won't rock the boat with Russia. Recall how ban on tomatoes imports & tourists forced Erdogan to apologise for Su-24 shootdown & normalize relations.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:10 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Once it enters Black Sea it's not leaving ever (if it could get there in the first place)
    Never say 'never"! If it's refitted & still breaks down, the towing distance will be a lot shorter.
    Also, Turkey won't rock the boat with Russia. Recall how ban on tomatoes imports & tourists forced Erdogan to apologise for Su-24 shootdown & normalize relations.

    You think this decrepit bathtub is worth pulling sanctions agan?

    Plus Erdogan will not be in charge forever, soon things will be getting back to business as usual.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:39 am

    They'll lose le$$ with sanctions before they r lifted than sailing it around Europe & there will/may be new ships like UDKs & TAKRs in the Black Sea later; Turkey may leave NATO & join other blocks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization

    Why should Turkey aid the fight against Iran & Russia on behalf of the Wall Street tycoons?

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:22 am

    Is that's how it was supposed to be? Why couldn't they trim with ballast & close the filling/drain holes? Also, it's not safe to pull a ship out at night, so it was an emergency. Yes, some compartments were flooded as it wasn't sealed for boiler work & the crew saved her.
    Thing is there is only the one source for it not being initially a planned leaving of drydock.

    I don't rule it out as being the case but the visual evidence so far counters other parts of that account: I can't see how the crane can wind up like this and have also made a large hole in the side near the waterline

    (there is limited visibility though so not impossible)

    K is floating pretty high above load waterline which seems unlikely if it's taken on thousands of tons of water in uncontrolled flooding.

    (obviously its been de-stored at least to some degree for the maintenance so maybe it should be floating higher yet)

    There is more than one source for the generators being long out of commission so that is certainly true.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:29 pm

    The carrier is fine, well this will delay their work even more Russians problem is the loss of their PD-50 will hurt them hard, that was their biggest floating dry dock. Question is if they can even recover the dock now if not they took a huge hit and that will set them back.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:45 pm

    Quickest Solution would be to buy floating dock from China.
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:28 pm

    Or use the gigantic yard that is build next door.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:05 pm

    I can't see how the crane can wind up like this and have also made a large hole in the side near the waterline... K is floating pretty high above load waterline which seems unlikely if it's taken on thousands of tons of water in uncontrolled flooding.
    To me, it looks like an access hole, not damage; there could be other holes on the starboard side.
    Thousand of tons of H2O would have capsized & sunk it too.
    Or use the gigantic yard that is build next door.
    How long will it take to be ready?
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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:26 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Quickest Solution would be to buy floating dock from China.

    Sweeden produce them too. It would be faster to invade them Laughing
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:30 pm

    I can't see how the crane can wind up like this and have also made a large hole in the side near the waterline... K is floating pretty high above load waterline which seems unlikely if it's taken on thousands of tons of water in uncontrolled flooding.
    To me, it looks like an access hole, not damage; there could be other holes on the starboard side.
    Thousand of tons of H2O would have capsized & sunk it too.
    Or use the gigantic yard that is build next door.
    How long will it take to be ready?

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