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    Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

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    eehnie

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  eehnie on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:29 pm

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    Russia's navy can look forward to new aircraft carriers

    technology
    18:02 25.02.2018   (updated 19:19 25.02.2018)   To the short link

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    Faster than Bullet: New Missiles for Russian Navy >>>

    Crew des russischen Atomkreuzers Pjotr Welikij (Archivbild)
    ©️ Sputnik / Grigory Syssoew

    The launching system of the new aircraft carrier will consist of a so-called ski jump, a kind of "ski jump", and a device for acceleration.  The departure deck of the ship should be twice as large as that of Admiral Kuznetsov , who is currently the only aircraft carrier in the service of the Russian Seekriegsflotte.

    With the development of the new ship, the Russian Krylov Research Center in St. Petersburg should deal.  Construction is scheduled to commence under the new state-of-the-art upgrade program for the period 2018-2025.

    Well, the Project 23000 Shturm haters have a bad day. This article posted by azi is clearly talking about this Project.
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    Isos

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Isos on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:31 pm

    eehnie wrote:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    Russia's navy can look forward to new aircraft carriers

    technology
    18:02 25.02.2018   (updated 19:19 25.02.2018)   To the short link

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    Faster than Bullet: New Missiles for Russian Navy >>>

    Crew des russischen Atomkreuzers Pjotr Welikij (Archivbild)
    ©️ Sputnik / Grigory Syssoew

    The launching system of the new aircraft carrier will consist of a so-called ski jump, a kind of "ski jump", and a device for acceleration.  The departure deck of the ship should be twice as large as that of Admiral Kuznetsov , who is currently the only aircraft carrier in the service of the Russian Seekriegsflotte.

    With the development of the new ship, the Russian Krylov Research Center in St. Petersburg should deal.  Construction is scheduled to commence under the new state-of-the-art upgrade program for the period 2018-2025.

    Well, the Project 23000 Shturm haters have a bad day. This article posted by azi is clearly talking about this Project.

    What bad day ? they are saying they just chosed the parameters so it is another proof that the shtorm is just fan art.

    And 40m for the width ?!

    Peŕrier

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Peŕrier on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:41 pm

    Isos wrote:Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?

    Strings.
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    Isos

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Isos on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:43 pm

    Peŕrier wrote:
    Isos wrote:Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?

    Strings.

    Like cables ? Could it work with something big like a mig 29 or a future naval pak fa ?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Peŕrier on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:48 pm

    Isos wrote:Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?

    Strings like elastic strings.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  eehnie on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:59 pm

    A little more clearly for the "expert" Isos.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.
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    Isos

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Isos on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 pm

    eehnie wrote:A little more clearly for the "expert" Isos.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    The reality is that the shtorm maket was their since years ago while the "preliminary calculations" were chosen like today and it is just sputnik quoting a tv not an official statement.

    Preliminay calculation not even design. PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS which is a proof that shtorm had nothing official all this time.


    And in  your article it is said "krylov SHOULD deal with the new carrier" which means their shtorm had nothing official and they are still not told by the russian MoD to start thinking about it.

    Do you understand words ?
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    eehnie

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  eehnie on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:10 am

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    For the people that wants to pay attention to the reality.

    This new means:

    1.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23000 has been completed.
    2.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23000 is ready for examination of the Ministry of Defense.
    3.- Pending approval of the project by the Ministry of Defense.

    Compared to other projects:

    1.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23560 Lider was approved by the Russian Ministry of Defense in the spring of 2017. The Project 23560 Lider is more advanced than the Project 23000 Shtorm.
    2.- According to the public news about the Russian Marine Doctrine of 2015, a project of aircraft carrier must be ready by 2020. There is not other alternative project publicly known at this point.
    3.- There are not news about the a preliminary design prepared for the Projects Privoi, Lavina or Kashalot of Large Amphibious Ships (helicopter carriers). The Project 23000 Shtorm is more advanced than the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina and the Project Kashalot.


    Last edited by eehnie on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:25 am

    eehnie wrote:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.sputniknews.com%2Ftechnik%2F20180225319701993-russland-marine-flugzeugtraeger%2F&edit-text=

    The Russian naval forces can wait tensely for a new aircraft carrier.  A corresponding project has now been prepared, reported on Sunday, the TV channel "Zvezda".

    According to preliminary calculations, the length of the new ship should be 330 meters, the width - 40 meters.  The ship is to carry up to 90 aircraft and helicopters and can record radar early warning aircraft.

    For the people that wants to pay attention to the reality.

    This new means:

    1.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23000 has been completed.
    2.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23000 is ready for examination of the Ministry of Defense.
    3.- Pending approval of the project by the Ministry of Defense.

    Compared to other projects:

    1.- The Preliminary Design of the Project 23560 Lider was approved by the Russian Ministry of Defense in the spring of 2017. The Project 23560 Lider is more advanced than the Project 23000 Shtorm.
    2.- According to the public news about the Russian Marine Doctrine of 2015, a project of aircraft carrier must be ready by 2020. There is not other alternative project publicly known at this point.
    3.- There are not news about the a preliminary design prepared for the Projects Privoi, Lavina or Kashalot of Large Amphibious Ships (helicopter carriers). The Project 23000 Shtorm is more advanced than the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina and the Project Kashalot.

    Wrong this means they only just started, "preliminary calculations".

    Definition of preliminary: denoting an action or event preceding or done in preparation for something fuller or more important.

    So they are at the OPENING stages of even getting a design finished to even propose it to the MOD, the project is no where near finished and is not awaiting approval from the government at all
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    Militarov

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:56 am

    You are aware that "preliminary design" can be made out of lego cubes?
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    Isos

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Isos on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:10 am

    Militarov wrote:You are aware that "preliminary design" can be made out of lego cubes?

    He is not. Prelimanary calculation means for him the ship is about to be build. Preliminary design would meant it has already destroyed US navy fleet ...
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    eehnie

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  eehnie on Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:47 am

    From 2015...

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://tehnowar.ru/18891-perspektivnyy-avianosec-shtorm-poluchit-unikalnyy-korpus.html&xid=17259,15700002,15700021,15700105,15700124,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700201&usg=ALkJrhgo2gzbCETtkw0q5gB6PrvZihuzQQ

    Prospective aircraft carrier "Storm" will receive a unique hull

    Multi-purpose heavy aircraft carrier of the project 23000E "Storm", which was developed by the experts of the Krylov State Research Center for the Russian Navy, will receive a body that has no analogues in the world, allowing to reduce the resistance to the ship's movement by one third and obtain the maximum possible characteristics, the adviser to the Director General of the Center told Interfax-AVN Valery Polovinkin

    "During the development of the project, our institute proposed an original hull for this aircraft carrier: optimal in terms of resistance. Its shape and decks are defined in such a way that, with limited displacement and main dimensions, it is possible to have the largest possible fleet of aircraft. This goal has been achieved, "said V. Polovinkin.

    He noted that, according to preliminary estimates, the resistance to the movement of this ship will be approximately 30% less than the traditional contour of the hull. "This means that with conventional energy it will be possible to have a cruising range of 30% more and less fuel consumption," the expert explained.

    V. Polovinkin said that the advance design provides for a gas turbine and nuclear version of the aircraft carrier's power plant.
    design provides for a gas turbine and nuclear version of the aircraft carrier's power plant.

    Earlier it was reported that the Krylov State Research Center completed the design of a new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier, the project received the index 23000E "Storm". According to preliminary data, the length of the ship will be 330 meters, width - 40 meters, and the draft - 11 meters. Its speed will reach 30 knots.

    Now the Russian Navy has one heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser - Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov.

    This achieved with Lego Embarassed Embarassed

    Less angry angry and more study study
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    GarryB

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:16 am

    If this information is correct they will go the US-American way with big carriers.

    What the hell are you smoking?

    The Kuznetsov is hardly a US-American way big carrier... it is 305m long, so we are talking a new carrier that is only 25m longer... so clearly not a 100K ton super carrier.

    The catapult system makes no sense with a ski jump... clearly they want a cat system for heavy aircraft but most of the aircraft will take off on their own... ie we are talking about a Russian style carrier with mostly fighters that can also launch an AWACS aircraft and possibly an inflight refuelling tanker so the fighters can take off with a full weapon load and perhaps half fuel and refuel after getting airborne.

    Very unlike US carriers BTW.

    Is there any other way than catapult or ski jump to lunch a fighter from a carrier ?

    STOL/VTOL... but both are extremely expensive as they need totally new aircraft designs that are fundamentally compromised...

    BTW when you guys have finished with the personal jibes has anyone else actually thought about the figures given properly yet?

    The Kuznetsov is 305 metres long and a 72 metre beam, so 330m long and 40m beam sounds a little strange to me to be honest...
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    Isos

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Isos on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:58 am


    The Kuznetsov is 305 metres long and a 72 metre beam, so 330m long and 40m beam sounds a little strange to me to be honest...

    I think its the width at waterline. Nimitz carriers are also around 40m at waterline.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:02 pm

    eehnie wrote:From 2015...

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://tehnowar.ru/18891-perspektivnyy-avianosec-shtorm-poluchit-unikalnyy-korpus.html&xid=17259,15700002,15700021,15700105,15700124,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700201&usg=ALkJrhgo2gzbCETtkw0q5gB6PrvZihuzQQ

    Prospective aircraft carrier "Storm" will receive a unique hull

    Multi-purpose heavy aircraft carrier of the project 23000E "Storm", which was developed by the experts of the Krylov  State Research Center for the Russian Navy, will receive a body that has no analogues in the world, allowing to reduce the resistance to the ship's movement by one third and obtain the maximum possible characteristics, the adviser to the Director General of the Center told Interfax-AVN Valery Polovinkin

    "During the development of the project, our institute proposed an original hull for this aircraft carrier: optimal in terms of resistance.  Its shape and decks are defined in such a way that, with limited displacement and main dimensions, it is possible to have the largest possible fleet of aircraft.  This goal has been achieved, "said V. Polovinkin.

    He noted that, according to preliminary estimates, the resistance to the movement of this ship will be approximately 30% less than the traditional contour of the hull.  "This means that with conventional energy it will be possible to have a cruising range of 30% more and less fuel consumption," the expert explained.

    V. Polovinkin said that the advance design provides for a gas turbine and nuclear version of the aircraft carrier's power plant.
    design provides for a gas turbine and nuclear version of the aircraft carrier's power plant.

    Earlier it was reported that the Krylov State Research Center completed the design of a new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier, the project received the index 23000E "Storm".  According to preliminary data, the length of the ship will be 330 meters, width - 40 meters, and the draft - 11 meters.  Its speed will reach 30 knots.

    Now the Russian Navy has one heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser - Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov.

    This achieved with Lego Embarassed Embarassed

    Less  angry  angry  and more  study  study

    Yes? You know we had parameters set and goals for systems 20-30years ago that are coming into service now. Doesnt mean they were made 30 years ago. I am not sure what are you trying to tell us here. That they already welded the hull somewhere same as Leader Very Happy?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Azi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    If this information is correct they will go the US-American way with big carriers.

    What the hell are you smoking?

    The Kuznetsov is hardly a US-American way big carrier... it is 305m long, so we are talking a new carrier that is only 25m longer... so clearly not a 100K ton super carrier.

    The catapult system makes no sense with a ski jump... clearly they want a cat system for heavy aircraft but most of the aircraft will take off on their own... ie we are talking about a Russian style carrier with mostly fighters that can also launch an AWACS aircraft and possibly an inflight refuelling tanker so the fighters can take off with a full weapon load and perhaps half fuel and refuel after getting airborne.

    Haha lol! I don't smoke!

    They are talking about dimensions from waterline, so the new carrier will have exact the dimensions of a Nimitz or Ford Carrier. And 90 airplanes is a big number. A mix of skijump and catapult makes really no sense, your are right.

    But project is in far future...we will see in many years!
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    Militarov

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    If this information is correct they will go the US-American way with big carriers.

    What the hell are you smoking?

    The Kuznetsov is hardly a US-American way big carrier... it is 305m long, so we are talking a new carrier that is only 25m longer... so clearly not a 100K ton super carrier.

    The catapult system makes no sense with a ski jump... clearly they want a cat system for heavy aircraft but most of the aircraft will take off on their own... ie we are talking about a Russian style carrier with mostly fighters that can also launch an AWACS aircraft and possibly an inflight refuelling tanker so the fighters can take off with a full weapon load and perhaps half fuel and refuel after getting airborne.

    Very unlike US carriers BTW.

    "Only 25m longer", that is ALOT longer to be fair. Ford class is some 335 or so m long.

    Also 90 borts onboard means it will be very, very big. In general numbers it seems comparable in size to Ford class for an example, which is super-carrier as much as one gets to be.
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    Isos

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Isos on Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:50 pm

    This thing is only from sputnik quoting a TV chanel ... They are not quoting official guys from MoD. Keep calm I'm pretty sure we won't hear anything about this for the next years. They made the same articles claiming shtorm is the new carrier design. Sputnik military specialist are not reliable. Most of the time they don't even use correct words when it comes to military science.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:51 pm

    Isos wrote:This thing is only from sputnik quoting a TV chanel ... They are not quoting official guys from MoD. Keep calm I'm pretty sure we won't hear anything about this for the next years. They made the same articles claiming shtorm is the new carrier design. Sputnik military specialist are not reliable. Most of the time they don't even use correct words when it comes to military science.

    BUT BUT the INTERNET SAID So, it must be true!
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    Militarov

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:43 pm

    Isos wrote:This thing is only from sputnik quoting a TV chanel ... They are not quoting official guys from MoD. Keep calm I'm pretty sure we won't hear anything about this for the next years. They made the same articles claiming shtorm is the new carrier design. Sputnik military specialist are not reliable. Most of the time they don't even use correct words when it comes to military science.

    There are no "sputnik military specialists", just journalists that need to get clicks on their articles.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Azi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:51 pm

    Another article at Sputniknews Germany, interview with Alexej Leonkow (expert)...

    I hope it's not water on eehnies watermills lol!

    https://de.sputniknews.com/politik/20180226319718068-flugzeugtraeger-marine-kriegsschiff/

    I try to translate...

    Only the concept exists no blueprint! They try to work on the blueprint now and construction can start 2023 (earliest date) to 2028. The biggest risk are gigantic costs, so the project is not really sure. The carrier will have two runways for starting, one CATOBAR and the other skijump. The carrier is too big for black sea or baltic sea, so only fleets would be Pacific and Northern Fleet for this type of carrier.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:13 pm

    Azi wrote:Another article at Sputniknews Germany, interview with Alexej Leonkow (expert)...

    I hope it's not water on eehnies watermills lol!

    https://de.sputniknews.com/politik/20180226319718068-flugzeugtraeger-marine-kriegsschiff/

    I try to translate...

    Only the concept exists no blueprint! They try to work on the blueprint now and construction can start 2023 (earliest date) to 2028. The biggest risk are gigantic costs, so the project is not really sure. The carrier will have two runways for starting, one CATOBAR and the other skijump. The carrier is too big for black sea or baltic sea, so only fleets would be Pacific and Northern Fleet for this type of carrier.

    "Currently, the new aircraft carrier is only a concept that comes from the developer Krylow. The Deputy Chief of Naval Operations, Viktor Barsuk, said in the summer that the drafting of a draft was anchored in the state armaments program from 2018 to 2025. In the autumn, Barsuk specified that the work is expected to start in the period from 2023 to 2028"
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:30 pm

    The world isn't all "black & white". "Storm haters" is the wrong term- we r just being objective here as opposed to Storm fan boys!
    I don't see much need for such big CV/Ns; Russia isn't export oriented PRC with its long SLOCs; she can get a few more "unsinkable a/c carriers" in key areas & maintain its interests abroad just as well, if not better, while concentrating on perimeter/Arctic possessions defence & the NSR. Those designers r peddling their projects to stay in business- after Indian "nyet", their only hope is that the RuN will order them.
    Read about the dying Japanese Empire a/c carriers & Yamato-class battleship fates:
    Two battleships of the class (Yamato and Musashi) were completed, while a third (Shinano) was converted to an aircraft carrier during construction.
    Due to the threat of American submarines and aircraft carriers, both Yamato and Musashi spent the majority of their careers in naval bases at Brunei, Truk, and Kure—deploying on several occasions in response to American raids on Japanese bases—before participating in the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October 1944, as part of Admiral Kurita's Centre Force. Musashi was sunk during the battle by American carrier airplanes. Shinano was sunk ten days after her commissioning in November 1944 by the submarine USS Archerfish, while Yamato was sunk by US naval air power in April 1945 during Operation Ten-Go.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato-class_battleship
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise-class_battleship#Conversion_to_aircraft_carriers
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    GarryB

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:57 pm

    Russia isn't export oriented PRC with its long SLOCs

    Do you think Russia has much of a future if it can only trade with its land neighbours?

    Take a good look at them and work out the potential max trade that is possible with those countries...

    Now look at the rest of the world... spending 20 billion dollars to open Russias trade options to the rest of the world is an excellent investment... especially when taken with other factors... Russia is spending big on liquified natural gas... now it is going to be needing to ship that to its customers... with a tiny navy of corvettes how will it do that?

    If it needs a navy that can operate anywhere in the world it needs air cover to support those operations... it needs a carrier.



    BUT BUT the INTERNET SAID So, it must be true!

    Yeah, we get you don't agree with Eehnie... the real question is why you are all being censored about it?

    They are talking about dimensions from waterline, so the new carrier will have exact the dimensions of a Nimitz or Ford Carrier. And 90 airplanes is a big number. A mix of skijump and catapult makes really no sense, your are right.

    It makes no sense for a piece of shit US "Imperial cruiser" destroyer of baby milk factories... it makes perfect sense for a scaled up Kuznetsov.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 pm


    Well painful part for eehnie is the fact that this new carrier (if it ever even gets made) is now in pre-concept phase (AKA all talk) so whatever they end up building or even just drawing up would be completely different to fabled Project-whatever Shtorm-class supercarrier so Shtorm will remain what it always was and what it was always designed to be: fanart.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

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      Current date/time is Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:21 pm