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    What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

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    marcellogo

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    What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  marcellogo on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:03 am

    Ok, not the best period to ask it, given sanctions and consequent autarchy effort but some ready to produce ecquipment would be IMHO still useful to avoid to wait years before having an home made equivalent.

    I would like the brasilian KC-390 (for it having aerial refuelling capabilities from the start) and Chinese or Iranian armed drones with their own weaponry included.
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    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:11 pm

    marcellogo wrote:Ok, not the best period to ask it, given sanctions and consequent autarchy effort but some ready to produce ecquipment would be IMHO still useful to avoid to wait years before having an home made equivalent.

    I would like the brasilian KC-390 (for it having aerial refuelling capabilities from the start) and Chinese or Iranian armed drones with their own weaponry included.

    For the iranian drones I could agree, but why on earth should they buy the brasilian aircraft when they are deveioping the il-214?

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    GarryB

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:09 am

    They have existing transport aircraft and are introducing drones into service very rapidly.... I doubt any foreign model could be negotiated and bought as quickly as local products could be introduced.

    And regarding that light Brazilian transport... it has american components in its engines so no chance... it is also in the same weight/payload range as the MTA so again... no. and thirdly why bother with such a small tanker aircraft when they already have plenty of Il-76 aircraft available and Il-476 in production?


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    jaguar_br

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  jaguar_br on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:55 pm

    In my opinion, RuAF should buy the production licenses of the following aircrafts:

    - KC-390: Only fuselage, wings and other mechanics parts. Engine and avionics can be delivered by russian suppliers. It could work in a niche between Il-112 and Il-476.

    -J-20: Like the KC-390, with russian engine and avionics/sensors. With an advanced engine (like the Idz-30) and some structure reinforcements, maybe it could reach a top speed Mach 2,5 and in the future replace the MiG-31.
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    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:23 pm

    jaguar_br wrote:In my opinion, RuAF should buy the production licenses of the following aircrafts:

    - KC-390: Only fuselage, wings and other mechanics parts. Engine and avionics can be delivered by russian suppliers. It could work in a niche between Il-112 and Il-476.

    -J-20: Like the KC-390, with russian engine and avionics/sensors. With an advanced engine (like the Idz-30) and some structure reinforcements, maybe it could reach a top speed Mach 2,5 and in the future replace the MiG-31.

    For the Brazilian aircraft....
    Again, the contracts would take time, and even if it was solved quickly, moving production of a foreign made aircraft is a mess.

    In addition they don't have an absolute need of the aircraft now. What they need is the money to finish the design and production of new aircraft of that class much better suited to the need of the Russian Air force (and with potential to export).

    That is this one

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-214


    The mig31 with new radars and avionic would be a much better aircraft for that role than the j20. And if you want something bigger, a modified Tu-160 would still be a better idea than modifying a foreign aircraft whose role is not clear.

    For the future interceptor, Russia is developing this

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-41



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    miketheterrible

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:11 pm

    J-20 we barely even know what it is capable of or even what it entails. I imagine most here who would like Russia to buy it, just likes the looks of it and think "that looks so advanced, and it is so great!". But of course, those people are only dolts who are fooling themselves. Fact is, Mikoyan is pushing the development of MiG-41 to eventually replace MiG-31 and as far as anyone is aware, MiG-31BM2/3 has flown and we don't know what it entails in terms of capabilities. But apparently a lot was to be done for it, introducing newer technologies. Don't know how true it is.

    Another transport plane? I doubt Russia is interested, since they are pushing for Il-476 and other transport jets of own design. As of Right now, Russia is going the import substitution route, along with others. So don't expect it to be importing anything, but making their own. Unless they come to some sort of agreement with Brazil to allow local production/assembly. In that case, Aviastar would get work.
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    GarryB

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:27 am

    - KC-390: Only fuselage, wings and other mechanics parts. Engine and avionics can be delivered by russian suppliers. It could work in a niche between Il-112 and Il-476.

    How many of those parts are owned/designed by Brazil?

    The MTA (Tu-214) fills the gap between the Il-112/114 and the Il-476 just fine and is all Russian.

    -J-20: Like the KC-390, with russian engine and avionics/sensors. With an advanced engine (like the Idz-30) and some structure reinforcements, maybe it could reach a top speed Mach 2,5 and in the future replace the MiG-31.

    Looks rather like a modified MiG-1.44, except the MiG is faster.

    I would suspect that MiG had a bit of input in the overall shape of the J-20 resulting in an external shape pretty similar to the MiG-1.44 and MiG-1.42, so no, there is no value in trying to buy the basic layout of a chinese aircraft... the Russians already know how to design aircraft.


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    Peŕrier

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  Peŕrier on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:14 pm

    I would vote for the Do-228NG, a nice STOL liaison and patrol aircraft.

    It could come handy to several services, as Border Guards, Army, Coast Guard and so on.

    marcellogo

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  marcellogo on Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:08 am

    A precisation: what I found interesting of KC-390 is the K part i.e. that it would have a built in air tanker capability from the start, something that could be very useful in a moment that see Russia enlarging its own sphere of influence and intervention range.
    Let's think about the regular ferry to Syria made with a tanker insteadthan with a simple passenger transport plane.
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    GarryB

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:04 am

    AFAIK the tanker components of the Il-78 are removable like the water bomber components of the standard Il-76 so any cargo version can be transformed into an inflight refuelling tanker or water bomber fairly quickly.

    Most of their tactical aircraft already have plenty of flight range, and their strategic bombers also have plenty of range too... they don't have enough strategic bombers to need hundreds of tankers... the existing tanker aircraft are already used to support their strategic bomber fleet.

    Having an An-12/MTA size tanker would not be that useful really, if it was made in a foreign country and subject to sanctions from the US and her slaves.

    How long would that Brazilian company that makes that plane last when the US imposes sanctions to block them from the US market for sales of their products to Russia?

    Do-228NG

    Why buy a 30 year old aircraft now?

    And it has American engines.... not going to happen.

    Geeez... look at the performance and despite being much slower, the An-2 has better range, better payload, shorter operating performance and would likely be much cheaper to operate.


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    Peŕrier

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  Peŕrier on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:40 am

    Do228NG has a modern electronic suite, more than twice the cruise speed, almost twice ceiling and twice rate of climb, it has two engines.

    For patrol and liason missions it is far better suited than An-2, and it's a civilian aircraft, quite difficult to hit with an embargo on spare parts.

    About range, ferry range with only half tonne payload is stated as more than 2.000 km, I don't think An-2 outperforms it even on range, at least not on clean configurations where the better aerodynamics of Do-228NG has a big role in defining the fuel's consumption compared to An-2.

    By the way the turboprop version of An-2 developed by SibNIA uses an Honeywell TPE331 turboprop, almost the same engine used in the Do228NG.

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    GarryB

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:19 am

    Why introduce the Do-228 when the L-410 has almost the same performance and is produced in Russia by a Czech company owned by a Russian?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_L-410_Turbolet


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Peŕrier

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    Re: What foreign ecquipment or plane could the VKS find useful to buy/get a license production?

    Post  Peŕrier on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:Why introduce the Do-228 when the L-410 has almost the same performance and is produced in Russia by a Czech company owned by a Russian?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_L-410_Turbolet

    Never heard of it, my fault.

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