Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Share

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 809
    Points : 976
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:29 pm

    Yes also Gen. Mike Holmes, chief Commander of the US Air Force Air Combat Command, has expressed its fears about the deployment of F-35's squadrons in Turkey the same area covered by the S-400's battallions.


    http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2018/June%202018/F-35-An-Uneasy-Neighbor-With-S400.aspx

    Is obvious to anyone that the problem here would be substantially of economical nature; both systems in facts are by now effectively frozen for what concern their inherent design structure and overall capabilities, therefore the problems that would results in the operational service, in same area, of both systems would be in the export potential of those systems,now high in demand world-wide (the F-35 program rather enjoy a "participation" basis even stronger due to the huge pressure exerted by USA on the nations in its sphere of influence).

    If the F-35, in facts, would result detectable and trackable only at few dozen km by С-400 's multi-band complement of sensors, as portrayed in all those years by the most irreducible advocates of this colossal aerospace program (the most costly and lucrative military program in the history), export not only of С-400 but virtually of all other domestic air defense systems would suffer a true deadly blow and the same image of Federation's Defense Industry and aerospace security, now already centered around S-400 divisions will be utterly tarnished.
    The thesis about "stealth" technology inalienable centrality and superiority in comparison with the most modern air defense technology will be fully proved.  

    On the other end, if С-400 battallions would be capable, with those same suit of passive and multi-band active sensors, to detect and track also in the most challenging jamming/decoy environment those F-35 at practically the same range of any other aerodynamic target, as portrayed by domestic developers, will be the US's military industry and nation security at suffer the same enormous backlash and horrible image's damages previously described for domestic side; with any potential customer of F-35A/B/C -aircraft putting all theirs eggs on the "low observability" and sensor data integration on a very low-performance airframe with strong limits to the kind and quality of weapons systems internally carried- not obliged by already signed contracts  very likely to abandon the procurement at instant, very likely just toward domestic or Chinese products conceived around completely different design philosophy and interaction with advanced enemy air defense systems.
    Obviously in this instance the ocean of words and conjectures ,uttered in all those years, about the mythical possibilities offered by supposedly "VLO" aircraft against advanced enemies will lose suddenly any meaning and theirs advocates will be pointed up for decades as example of self-delusional arrogant fouls.


    At the moment it appear that "Алмаз-Антей" do not see any problem in putting an export version of S-400 operative in the same area with this US-made supposedly almost-invisible wonder Aircraft,protected by a true sphere of "situational awareness TM" , in this way potentially ruining completely not only its export potential of any kind of modern air defense systems around the world, now and in the future ,but also any chance of procurement by part of Federation's MoD for aerospace defense, neither any domestic General or political figure has ever attempted to prevent S-400 to be placed in the same area of the US made wonder aircraft.

    On the other side you observe the exact opposite behaviour.............anyone can suppose WHY..........


    Gen. Mike Holmes recently anyway has also strongly advocated for collaboration with US and Allied Armies in the efforts for defeating С-400, obviously domestic officials have already responded to this laughably simplicistic approach to the question of confronting with all theirs forces only С-400 divisions Laughing ;pointing out that not only any other class of air defense systems but as also domestic space based assets, front and long range Aviation, Army offensive and defensive systems ,Navy long range missiles ,EW and masking equipment, VDV Airborne Divisions etc...would be all devoted to destroy theirs Aircraft, dismantle theirs airbases, radars and command centers.

    https://vpk.name/news/220142_triumf_rossii_smogut_li_ssha_perehitrit_s400.html

    If to confront only С-400 battallions western Air Forces generals need the collaboration and involvement of so much assets and resources of theirs armed forces they are truly in a sea of troubles ,first of all because at the moment i fail to remember where are theirs remotely distant equivalents not only of С-400 divisions but also of Панцирь-С/C2/CM ,Тор-М1-2У/М2, Бук-М2/M3, Верба, Леер-2/3, Красуха-2/-4, Мурманск-БН ,ТДА-3  etc...preventing theirs command centers, radar installations, and air bases to be reduced in few minutes to big scrap landmills.
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 630
    Points : 624
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:13 pm

    True. Until now I have not heard from US officials or media a single articulated explanation as to why is it so unacceptable that the F-35 operates close to the S-400, while Russia doesn't seem to have problems getting their most modern AD system operated by a NATO country. Even in its export version its performance is enough to make it the most sought-after AD system, so it should enclose a fair amount of relevant know-how, enough to worry the Russian side that NATO guys get their hands on it. Definitely something fishy here on the US side.

    And regarding the US/NATO efforts to counter the S-400, I guess they never really thought of attacking Russia, they know this would not work. But so many "friends" and "allies" going to such extremes to get the enemy's premium AD system and effectively closing their skies to US "visits" is a real concern since it lays the basis for a second round of decolonisation.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2581
    Points : 2563
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:34 pm

    It's already been established that various radar systems used by S-400 like Nebo M and alike, can see stealth at hundreds of KM's away as they are not xband radar and stealth is really against xband.

    S-400 is a solid system but it will be on the radar system it is connected to, to really shine. The search and track radar already used is just 1 part of it and while good, may not quite cut it compared to other search radars that can connect to it.

    Anyway, it's obvious US is rather scared as they are whining the most.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2157
    Points : 2149
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:28 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:It's already been established that various radar systems used by S-400 like Nebo M and alike, can see stealth at hundreds of KM's away as they are not xband radar and stealth is really against xband.

    S-400 is a solid system but it will be on the radar system it is connected to, to really shine. The search and track radar already used is just 1 part of it and while good, may not quite cut it compared to other search radars that can connect to it.

    Anyway, it's obvious US is rather scared as they are whining the most.

    The best of this system is that it is connected to everything else like buk pantsir or even old mig-29S or new mig-35. So an airborn fighter become part of the system which is better than a lonely mig or a lonely s-400. Actually its missiles are not even needed as it can direct other smaller and cheaper systems to attack the target.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2581
    Points : 2563
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:06 pm

    Well, yes but that requires a whole set of command and control equipment which comes in separate vehicles and of course, separate contract.

    While Russia has that and gives them a full on multi spectrum of communication and control, chances are, export wise, they don't have that.

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 809
    Points : 976
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:09 pm

    If that US aircraft is exactly what LM and US military have portrayed it to be in all those years in theirs presentations i do not understand what would be the problem to ruin utterly Алмаз-Антей and Rosoboronexport market around the world showing in the reality, not with words and, above all, against an OPFOR air defense system of the same generation that the F-35 can truly operate in area defended by the, by far, most advanced air defense at world without being detected and/or tracked (in opposite to theirs usual confrontation with SAM at least 20-30 years older).

    Both Алмаз-Антей and Rosoboronexport are present in the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act , therefore this should be for the US a truly gold chance to inflict to the entire Russian industry, at zero costs and with zero political and commercial backlash, a damage thousand of times grater than the ridicule ones created by CAATS.
    Obviously that would happen if......IF........F-35 is what them and their allies involved in the program had said it was against the most advanced SAM in all those years; otherwise the thing would become a disaster.

    As said Алмаз-Антей, on the other hand, do not seem to fear, even for one instant, that reality, instead of cheap words, will show if F-35 operating in the same area with theirs system will prove undetectable/untrackable or instead detectable and lockable like any other aerodynamic target.

    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2581
    Points : 2563
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:31 pm

    One Russian general did state: "go ahead and try. You will get to know how "stealth" your jets really are". In other words, knew that they can see those stealth jets far away and are not afraid.
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 630
    Points : 624
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:09 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:One Russian general did state: "go ahead and try. You will get to know how "stealth" your jets really are". In other words, knew that they can see those stealth jets far away and are not afraid.

    That must have been Konashenkov "encouraging" US to use their stealth planes in Syria Laughing Laughing

    “And all the illusions of amateurs about the existence of ‘invisible’ jets will face a disappointing reality,”

    Classic
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2157
    Points : 2149
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:31 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:One Russian general did state: "go ahead and try. You will get to know how "stealth" your jets really are". In other words, knew that they can see those stealth jets far away and are not afraid.

    That must have been Konashenkov "encouraging" US to use their stealth planes in Syria Laughing Laughing

    “And all the illusions of amateurs about the existence of ‘invisible’ jets will face a disappointing reality,”

    Classic

    French general of the air force also said to the french senators that stealth isn't that much usefull and modern detecting tools are surpassing it. Only US fanbois think it is a superweapon.
    avatar
    dino00

    Posts : 228
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Location : portugal

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  dino00 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:16 pm

    Russia wraps up state trials of long-range missile for S-400 air defense system

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1011767
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 11918
    Points : 12391
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:31 pm

    dino00 wrote:Russia wraps up state trials of long-range missile for S-400 air defense system

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1011767

    According to Russia’s Defense Ministry, the 40N6E missile is capable of striking targets at a maximum range of 400 km.

    Unconfirmed data suggest that the missile can hit targets at the maximum altitude of 185 km. The pre-production batch of 40N6E missiles was manufactured in late 2013, according to open sources. In 2015, Russia’s Defense Ministry announced for the first time that the new missile had successfully hit an air target.


    Arrow

    Posts : 221
    Points : 221
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Arrow on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:02 pm

    Russia wraps up state trials of long-range missile for S-400 air defense system wrote:


    We have been hearing this since 2012.
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 630
    Points : 624
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:18 am

    Russia receives official request from Serbia for supplies of S-300 complexes — source


    The relevant organizations of the Russian defense industry are examining the query, the source said

    MOSCOW, July 4. /TASS/. Russia has received an official request from Serbia for supplies of S-300PMU-2 missile systems in 2021, a well-informed military diplomatic source told TASS.

    "Serbia has sent an official request for the supplies of a regimental package of S-300PMU-2 that consists of a regimental command post and two missile battalions," he said. "At present, the relevant organizations of the Russian defense industry are examining the query."

    "Given the relations of friendship between the two countries, there are scarcely any doubts Russia will answer the request positively," the source said.

    In the meantime, officials at the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, which supervises international cooperation in defense-related technologies, and executives at Almaz-Antei corporation refrained from comments on the information from the source.

    Vyacheslav Davidenko, an official spokesman from the Russian weaponry trading company Rosoboronexport told TASS the exporter had not received the query yet.

    At the time of reporting, TASS did not have official comments from Serbia.

    Serbian Prime Minister Alexander Vucic said in April 2017 his country would like to have two battalions and the command point of the Russian antiaircraft missile system S-300 Favorit. Somewhat earlier, he said S-300’s were overly expensive for Serbia but Russia had voiced its intention to help with the aid of definite arrangements.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1012000
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 630
    Points : 624
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:25 am

    Developer S-400 and S-500 will pay special attention to the development of missile defense systems


    Within the framework of experimental design work, preliminary tests of the experimental section of the new control system will be carried out, the rocket design documentation will be adjusted


    MOSCOW, July 4. / TASS /. Almaz (part of Almaz-Antey Concern) will pay special attention to the work on ABM systems, the company's annual report says.

    "Special efforts are planned to be directed to the development of a missile defense system with the expansion of the use of a multinational approach to the construction of a defense system," the section "Prospects for the Development of Society" says.


    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5345440
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7074
    Points : 7168
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:37 am

    LMFS wrote:

    Russia receives official request from Serbia for supplies of S-300 complexes — source


    The relevant organizations of the Russian defense industry are examining the query, the source said
    .........
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1012000


    Not that I would mind S-series parked in the fatherland but I would definitely prefer large number of BUKs over few 300s...

    Easier to disperse and hide to say nothing of mobility

    Distance was never issue for us, it was altitude and BUK covers that no problem
    avatar
    LMFS

    Posts : 630
    Points : 624
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:10 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Not that I would mind S-series parked in the fatherland but I would definitely prefer large number of BUKs over few 300s...

    Easier to disperse and hide to say nothing of mobility

    Distance was never issue for us, it was altitude and BUK covers that no problem
    S-300 is better insurance than the Buks Very Happy

    The engagement range limits the distance at which stand-off jamming can be deployed or negate it completely, even with limited number of units. Then the aggressor needs to grow some balls and be ready to attack without impunity, not something NATO is known for. Not to talk of the other high-end characteristics of a system like S-300. But of course Buks and Pantsirs need to get in the mix as well!
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7074
    Points : 7168
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:55 am

    LMFS wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Not that I would mind S-series parked in the fatherland but I would definitely prefer large number of BUKs over few 300s...

    Easier to disperse and hide to say nothing of mobility

    Distance was never issue for us, it was altitude and BUK covers that no problem
    S-300 is better insurance than the Buks Very Happy

    The engagement range limits the distance at which stand-off jamming can be deployed or negate it completely, even with limited number of units. Then the aggressor needs to grow some balls and be ready to attack without impunity, not something NATO is known for. Not to talk of the other high-end characteristics of a system like S-300. But of course Buks and Pantsirs need to get in the mix as well!

    S-300 is nice and all but it's one big centralized target

    Last time we got zerg-rushed and no amount of jamming would have helped

    We survived because we were able to disperse and hide and we would have scored infinitely more kills if it weren't for altitude limitations (15km), they just flew above 15km and they were in the clear

    It's hard to hide S-300 here, too cramped
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 840
    Points : 840
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Hole on Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:50 am



    You have to use it the right way.
    avatar
    dino00

    Posts : 228
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Location : portugal

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  dino00 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:56 pm

    What`s the difference between 40N6...40N6E...and 40N6M?
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2157
    Points : 2149
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:00 pm

    dino00 wrote:What`s the difference between 40N6...40N6E...and 40N6M?

    It should be : domestic version ... export version .... and upgraded version.
    avatar
    dino00

    Posts : 228
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Location : portugal

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  dino00 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:26 pm

    Isos wrote:
    dino00 wrote:What`s the difference between 40N6...40N6E...and 40N6M?

    It should be : domestic version ... export version .... and upgraded version.

    I know, but we don`t know their ranges, and even if they do exist, are they beeing tested.Have they passed teste and enter production?
    Follow Russian Military can be a mess...
    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3333
    Points : 3417
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:19 pm

    Arrow wrote:


    We have been hearing this since 2012.

    Yes we have

    PapaDragon wrote:
    LMFS wrote:

    Russia receives official request from Serbia for supplies of S-300 complexes — source



    The relevant organizations of the Russian defense industry are examining the query, the source said
    .........
    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1012000

    Not that I would mind S-series parked in the fatherland but I would definitely prefer large number of BUKs over few 300s...

    Easier to disperse and hide to say nothing of mobility

    Distance was never issue for us, it was altitude and BUK covers that no problem

    Buks are better for if SHTF and your air defence network is broken and penetrated; but in orders to prevent that from happening in the first place S-300s are a must.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 11918
    Points : 12391
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:37 pm

    Russian defense firm delivers S-400 regiment set ahead of schedule

    Almaz-Antey Group has delivered the first regiment set of S-400 Triumf surface-to-air missile systems this year to the Defense Ministry of Russia

    MOSCOW, July 18. /TASS/. Russia’s Almaz-Antey defense manufacturer has delivered this year’s first regiment set of S-400 Triumf long-range air defense missile systems to the Defense Ministry ahead of schedule, the company’s press office said on Wednesday.

    "Almaz-Antey Group has delivered the first regiment set of S-400 Triumf surface-to-air missile systems this year to the Defense Ministry of Russia. The official ceremony was held on the territory of the Kapustin Yar training range in the Astrakhan Region," the press office said.

    As Almaz-Antey CEO Yan Novikov said, all the systems were tested at the training range.

    "In compliance with the customer’s requirements, upon its delivery to representatives of the Defense Ministry of Russia, the military hardware was moved to the training range where tests were conducted with the engagement of real air targets. The delivery/acceptance trials passed successfully," Novikov said.

    Russia’s S-400 Triumf is the latest long-range surface-to-air missile system that went into service in 2007. It is designed to destroy aircraft, cruise and ballistic missiles, including medium-range missiles, and can also be used against ground installations.

    The S-400 can engage targets at a distance of 400 km and at an altitude of up to 30 km.
    Share


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1013821

    rambo54

    Posts : 154
    Points : 156
    Join date : 2014-04-01

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  rambo54 on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:38 pm

    Air Defense in the Khabarovsk Territory will receive the latest S-400 Triumph complexes
    That will be for the 1530 AD RGT
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5400445

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 809
    Points : 976
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:23 pm

    For those interested, some informations that clarify what i was refering to in the posts n. 14 of this thread, a post that several people, at the time, found excessively cryptic  Wink  


    kvs wrote:It is quite clear from the US attack on the Syrian air base that about half the missiles were intercepted.



    Mindstorm wrote:Well that is not correct Wink  

    Not necessity to shot down any missile was present for the entire salvo ,following the northern route toward the Al-Shayrat air base, delivered by the USS Ross -36 BGM-109 Block IV-

    This entire salvo experienced a rare case of collective malfunction of missile's radar altimeters pointing to a progressive gain of altitude that was necessary to stabilize and counteract;  unfornutately this produced the effect of an early what disastrous early close encounter with sea's wakes......a true misfortune.


    History of the unique scientific achievements at the basis of the event of April 2017 in Syria, with suppression of the entire salvo delivered by the USS Ross, causing only the 23 (24 with one malfunction) BGM-109 missile delivered by the USS Porter ,following the southern route, to effectively reach Al Shayrath AB.

    https://vpk.name/news/224299_elektronnoe_lasso_dlya_tomagavkov.html

    Sponsored content

    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:22 pm