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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

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    Hole

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Hole on Tue May 29, 2018 4:27 pm

    The external difference between the core of the S-500 and the S-400 won´t be so great. The long-range missile and space defence part will differ.

    But you are right. I thought there were only fittings for two missiles, but the trailer is the same. cry

    Why this secrecy around the S-500?
    They showed the first prototype of the Su-57.
    They showed the first T-14 tanks on red square.
    What´s the difference with the S-500? We would only see a truck with two or four missile containers. Nothing more.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Tue May 29, 2018 7:03 pm

    Hole wrote:The external difference between the core of the S-500 and the S-400 won´t be so great. The long-range missile and space defence part will differ.

    But you are right. I thought there were only fittings for two missiles, but the trailer is the same. cry

    Why this secrecy around the S-500?
    They showed the first prototype of the Su-57.
    They showed the first T-14 tanks on red square.
    What´s the difference with the S-500? We would only see a truck with two or four missile containers. Nothing more.

    They test it to be sure it works well first. If they show it and fail tests, the pictures will be associated to articles saying it is a crap system in western media.
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    LMFS

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Tue May 29, 2018 8:10 pm

    Hole wrote:The external difference between the core of the S-500 and the S-400 won´t be so great. The long-range missile and space defence part will differ.

    But you are right. I thought there were only fittings for two missiles, but the trailer is the same. cry

    Why this secrecy around the S-500?
    They showed the first prototype of the Su-57.
    They showed the first T-14 tanks on red square.
    What´s the difference with the S-500? We would only see a truck with two or four missile containers. Nothing more.
    Well we have seen the patent of the TEL and some radars already, so this secrecy is slowly coming to an end. Nevertheless I guess the longer they keep the final system hidden the more they can test without the US being sure what is going on and being able to assess the potential kinematic capabilities of the missiles. The news of the recent 300 miles interception came from America in the end so its clear they keep a keen eye in this issue, since a Russian mobile ABM system has serious implications to the strategic balance of forces (bigger in fact IMHO than the newly presented strategic weapons)
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    Hole

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Hole on Tue May 29, 2018 9:40 pm

    With pictures from a plane and a tank you can reach more conclusions than from a sealed missile container.
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    LMFS

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Tue May 29, 2018 10:08 pm

    Hole wrote:With pictures from a plane and a tank you can reach more conclusions than from a sealed missile container.
    No doubt! Very Happy
    Point is the conclusions you reach in one case are more relevant to national security than in the other. Whether the missile uses explosive or kinetic warhead, what the approximate range and interception height are...all those are highly relevant parameters I would say you can estimate from the size of the container. Nevertheless I am just making an hypothesis, do not take it too seriously...
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    Hole

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Hole on Wed May 30, 2018 10:43 am

    No, you can´t. Look at the S-300V. First version got ranges of 40/120 km, the V4 can reach targets that are 300/400 km away. Externally even the missiles are the same.

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:16 pm


    Surprisingly decent:

    Russia's S-500 Air Defense System: An F-35, F-22 or B-1 Bomber Killer?

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-s-500-air-defense-system-f-35-f-22-or-b-1-bomber-26216
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:15 pm

    Isos wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you?  Wink


    One of those will cost like 10 cruise missiles ... not really good for a drone that os meant to be used in very big numbers.

    They forgot also that very long range missiles are becoming traditional weapons against those transpart plane like r-37, meteor, ks-172, chinese long range missiles ... with awacs suppot they have 0 chance.

    It could be useful in a COIN environment if the army doesnt want to risk manpower to secure an airstrip. Also, when landing, all aircraft become vulnerable to being shot down by MANPADS, so air recoverability increases survivability. Other than that, this system doesnt seem very useful for a high intensity conflict, unless they're configured to be cheap jamming drones that wouldnt be cost effective if they were single use.


    BTW from the ad they contradicted the function of these vehicles. At one point the video implies that they're cruise missiles while after that it implies that they're drones.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:21 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Hole wrote:The external difference between the core of the S-500 and the S-400 won´t be so great. The long-range missile and space defence part will differ.

    But you are right. I thought there were only fittings for two missiles, but the trailer is the same. cry

    Why this secrecy around the S-500?
    They showed the first prototype of the Su-57.
    They showed the first T-14 tanks on red square.
    What´s the difference with the S-500? We would only see a truck with two or four missile containers. Nothing more.

    They test it to be sure it works well first. If they show it and fail tests, the pictures will be associated to articles saying it is a crap system in western media.

    But they're still debugging the armata long after they presented it.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:26 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Surprisingly decent:

    Russia's S-500 Air Defense System: An F-35, F-22 or B-1 Bomber Killer?

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-s-500-air-defense-system-f-35-f-22-or-b-1-bomber-26216

    Wrong after the 1st sentence when it reads that the S-500 is made to replace the A-135.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:29 pm

    unless they're configured to be cheap jamming drones that wouldnt be cost effective if they were single use.

    It's funny this idea of a drone that has more functionalities than a cruise missile but beung cheaper only because it is called drone. That's just unrealistic. If you want your drone to be a cruise missile with electronics to detect s-400 radars, be smart enough to coordinate an attack and with refueling capabilities, it will never be cheap. Actually cruise missile will be cheaper.

    Rq-4 Global hawk drone acording to wikipedia was meant to be 35 million piece and it ended at 200 million $. And if it is detected it far more easier to shot down than lets say a reco mig-25 or f-18 which can carry much more electronics than a drone. The only advantage of drones is range but still if detected it won't help because their speed is very slow.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:42 pm

    Isos wrote:
    unless they're configured to be cheap jamming drones that wouldnt be cost effective if they were single use.

    It's funny this idea of a drone that has more functionalities than a cruise missile but beung cheaper only because it is  called drone. That's just unrealistic. If you want your drone to be a cruise missile with electronics to detect s-400 radars, be smart enough to coordinate an attack and with refueling capabilities, it will never be cheap. Actually cruise missile will be cheaper.

    Rq-4 Global hawk drone acording to wikipedia was meant to be 35 million piece and it ended at 200 million $.  And if it is detected it far more easier to shot down than lets say a reco mig-25 or f-18 which can carry much more electronics than a drone. The only advantage of drones is range but still if detected it won't help because their speed is very slow.

    I'm talking about if this drone's only mission was being a jammer. That would be useful for Russia, since it cant afford enough Khibynys and cant afford to upgrade enough Su-24M2s and Su-30SMs to carry it. Also  having a jammer drone frees up hardpoints on aircraft and if you shoot it down, you just shoot down a jammer, not an entire aircraft.

    rambo54

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  rambo54 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:03 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Surprisingly decent:

    Russia's S-500 Air Defense System: An F-35, F-22 or B-1 Bomber Killer?

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-s-500-air-defense-system-f-35-f-22-or-b-1-bomber-26216

    the article you refered is interesting.
    Basically it is said that S-500 will be a universal platform for: 9M100 / 9M96 / 48N6 / 40N6 / 77N6
    I wondered about 9M100/96.

    On the other hand there is another article
    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-answer-the-aegis-missile-defense-system-big-trouble-17199
    which mentioned severe development problems with these two missiles regarding their long range capability.

    That would explain why S-350 is announced on and on and didn't emerged yet as a weapon system.

    Before that 9M96 was envisaged for S-300PMU2/3 which didn't happened either.

    Everything is waiting for the mysterious S-500. This system should please everyone and make everybody happy.
    The longlasting development struggle with 9M96/40N6/77N6 could explain why Russia is so shy to show up S-500 prototypes.

    The goal to handle all these missiles in one system means the possibility of last minute changes even in the launch systems hardware.
    And to come up every year with a different S-500 concept could effect the public opinion over that "ultimate" weapon system.

    Arrow

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Arrow on Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:00 pm

    Everything is waiting for the mysterious S-500. This system should please everyone and make everybody happy. The longlasting development struggle with 9M96/40N6/77N6 could explain why Russia is so shy to show up S-500 prototypes. The goal to handle all these missiles in one system means the possibility of last minute changes even in the launch systems hardware. And to come up every year with a different S-500 concept could effect the public opinion over that "ultimate" weapon system. wrote:

    Nothing new.For many years, the same information has been repeatedly repeated. It's funny to hide the mythical S-500 Laughing
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:45 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    Nothing new.For many years, the same information has been repeatedly repeated. It's funny to hide the mythical S-500 Laughing

    Oh yes, mythical. Much like every system.

    I seem to recall people like you said same thing about Su-57. Now you just look stupid.

    But that isn't surprising for you.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Arrow on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:59 pm

    The Su-57 was not as hidden as the S-500. The S-500 is already in production. Nothing is known about this system, there is not even one picture. Only more theories. And of course, there are no analogues in the world Laughing
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:07 pm

    Sat photo was shown that most speculated it was S-500. It's also not produced yet. There is only possibly 1 or 2 units being tested. Couple years ago there was also photo of possible container for the newer missile shown on a trailer.

    Su-57 was secretive and no one knew or seen it till it flew a couple of times.

    Arrow

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Arrow on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:20 pm

    The T-50 was shown during one of the first T-50-1 flights already in 2010. The S-500 has been undergoing tests for several years and there is nothing. Similarly, the famous 40N6. Even the S-350 have already been shown several times.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:05 pm

    And yet S-500's radar was shown. Plus news from even US about S-500 use. Unless you claim everyone is lying.

    Arrow

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Arrow on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:54 pm

    Plus news from even US about S-500 use. wrote:

    The same source that wrote about the nuclear cruise missile was ridiculed here. I do not understand why they keep the S-500 secret for so long. It's funny.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:20 am

    Since Russia has a long history, and Almaz Antey not only being of that history but also the financial aspect of the company being real strong, in making long range AA missiles, I think it is safe to say of its existence. If you don't believe it, thats fine, cause you are a nobody like rest of us. So in end, you can pretend it doesn't exist and Russia will never make it. Just like what was said about PAK FA, about Borei and Bulava, etc etc etc.
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    kvs

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  kvs on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:29 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Since Russia has a long history, and Almaz Antey not only being of that history but also the financial aspect of the company being real strong, in making long range AA missiles, I think it is safe to say of its existence.  If you don't believe it, thats fine, cause you are a nobody like rest of us.  So in end, you can pretend it doesn't exist and Russia will never make it.  Just like what was said about PAK FA, about Borei and Bulava, etc etc etc.  

    Only retards would question the existence of the S-500.   These systems are all about the missiles.   USSR and Russia have been developing
    hypersonic, high altitude interceptors since the 1960s.    The S-500 will be able to launch two A-135 derivatives that reflect the over 2x
    improvement in solid rocket fuel energy density over the last 30 years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-135_anti-ballistic_missile_system

    A resized A-135 would likely be 10 meters long and weigh 20 tons.    A pair of such missile can be transported by a launcher truck of the S-500
    system.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:41 am

    Who cares about pictures of it ?

    S-500 should look like an s-400 externally. The launchers should be compatible from s-400 to s-500. Radars are radars, a big antena on a truck and that's it. Only new thing will be the launcher with the big missiles. The aspect doesn't matter at all for this system.

    That's not the case for su-57 or t-14. Their design tell you a lot about their capabilities.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:40 am

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201806141065389857-turkey-erdogan-missiles/

    Unlikely to happen but US are losing Turkey very fast. They could end up buying su-35/57 instead of f-35.
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    LMFS

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  LMFS on Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:15 pm

    The S-400 saga continues Rolling Eyes


    Senate to ban US weapon supplies to Turkey over potential purchase of Russian S-400 system

    Earlier reports said that Ankara intends to purchase over 100 F-35 warplanes. The proposed measure may hinder the execution of the contract

    WASHINGTON, June 19. /TASS/. The US Senate adopted on Monday the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2019, which obliges the Secretary of Defense to present a special report regarding the potential purchase of the S-400 air and missile defense system from Russia by the Turkish government.

    Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of the Authorization Act, "the Secretary of Defense, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall submit to the appropriate congressional committees a report on the status of the United States relationship with the Republic of Turkey," the document said.

    According to the Act, "the Secretary of Defense may not take any action to execute delivery of a foreign military sale for major defense equipment" to Tukey until the report is submitted.

    The required report should include "an assessment of the potential purchase by the Government of Turkey of the S-400 air and missile defense system from the Russian Federation and the potential effects of such purchase on the United States-Turkey bilateral relationship, including an assessment of impacts on other United States weapon systems and platforms operated jointly with Turkey to include the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike aircraft; the Patriot surface-to-air missile system; the CH-47 Chinook heavy lift helicopter; the AH-1 Attack helicopter; the H-60 Black Hawk utility helicopter; and the F-16 Fighting Falcon aircraft," the Senate said.

    The Secretary of Defense is not allowed to take any action "to execute delivery of a foreign military sale for major defense equipment subject to congressional notification to the Republic of Turkey until the Secretary submits to the appropriate congressional committees the report," the Act said.

    Earlier reports said that Ankara intends to purchase over 100 F-35 warplanes. The proposed measure may hinder the execution of the contract.

    Russia’s S-400 Triumf (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) is the latest long-range antiaircraft missile system that went into service in 2007. It is designed to destroy aircraft, cruise and ballistic missiles, including medium-range missiles, and surface targets. The S-400 can engage targets at a distance of 400 kilometers and at an altitude of up to 30 kilometers.

    In November 2016, it was announced that Turkey and Russia were negotiating the contract for the supply of S-400 air defense systems. Russia confirmed the conclusion of the contract on September 12, 2017.


    More:
    http://tass.com/world/1010065

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