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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

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    Austin

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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Austin on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:10 pm









    Austin

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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Austin on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:12 pm

    Note the Target Speed of 9M96E and 9M96E2 missile
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:51 pm

    Austin wrote:Note the Target Speed of 9M96E and 9M96E2 missile

    Any information about the radar in it ? It looks smaller than buk missiles and clearly much smaller than other S-300/400 missiles which would suggests that it is easier to jam.

    The 9M100 looks big too. Isn't it suppose to be quad pack instead of one 9M96 ?
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:50 pm

    Apparently read that Morocco is interested in purchasing s-400 as well now.

    Austin

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:19 am

    Now it appears Russian AD will have 3 Interceptor that can take out a HGV flying at Hypersonic Speed

    Medium Range 9M96E2 , Long Range 9M82MD (1) from S-300V4 and 40N6 of S-400 system

    1 ) http://tass.com/defense/898884

    All the three interceptor have sufficient long ranges and highly manouverable to take out Fast Moving , High Cross Range and Highly Manouverable HGV's

    The rest of interceptor would still be capable of intercepting Aerodynamic Targets and Ballistic Missile of various ranges.

    The ACE of Spade would be S-500 system.

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    George1

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:34 pm

    PHOTO: Allegedly Missile Transport Launch Canister for Russia's next generation Air-defense Missile System «S-500» / World Military Industry



    https://twitter.com/Missilito/status/919143512238710784



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    rambo54

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:33 pm

    on a German trailer?
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    franco

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  franco on Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:32 pm

    A little show for the SAM enthusiast.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/6CRuWZ5hZis
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    George1

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:07 pm

    MOSCOW, October 23. /TASS/. Almaz-Antey contractor has delivered the second regiment set of S-400 Triumf air defense missile systems to Russia’s Defense Ministry this year, the company’s press office reported on Monday.

    "The delivery ceremony took place at the Kapustin Yar practice range in the Astrakhan Region in south Russia. The acceptance/delivery trials have passed successfully," the press office said.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/972034


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    Austin

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:44 pm

    "Deadly trick" for Moscow: new details of the "Rapid Global Impact". How not to step on the same rake?

    https://topwar.ru/127311-smertelnaya-ulovka-dlya-moskvy-novye-detali-bystrogo-globalnogo-udara-kak-ne-nastupit-na-odni-i-te-zhe-grabli.html

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Austin on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:03 pm

    "Prometheus" will cover Russia from NATO attacks from space

    https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/184449/
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:19 pm

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2914426.html

    The Ministry of Defense received the third regiment of the S-400 surface-to-air missile system in 2017
    (the second in October and the third in 2017)

     It is known that the first regiment kit of the S-400 missile system under the state defense order of 2017 was placed in the 511th Guards air defense missile Smolensk Red Banner of the Order of Suvorov three times the Order of Kutuzov of the Order of Bogdan Khmelnitsky regiment (stationed in Engels, Saratov region) the composition of the 76th Air Defense Division of the 14th Air Force and Air Defense Army of the Central Military District

     The second set (two-divisional composition) of the S-400 SAM under the state defense order of 2017 was delivered in October to the 12th anti-aircraft missile regiment (Sevastopol stationed) of the 31st air defense division of the 4th Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Southern Military District.

     So far, there have been no reports as to which units will be delivered to the third consignment of the S-400 SAM on the state defense order of 2017, as well as the fourth regiment planned for delivery by the end of the year.According to unofficial information, the two sets will be part of one of the anti-aircraft missile regiments of the 1st Air Defense Division of the 45th Air Force and Air Defense Army of the Northern Fleet and the 1533th Guards Anti-aircraft Missile Red Banner Regiment (deployed in Vladivostok) of the 93d Air Defense Division of the 11th Air Defense Division, th Red Banner Army Air Force and Air Defense of the Eastern Military District.

    There are also reports of plans for the delivery in 2017 of at least one additional S-400 SAM battalion to the 18th Guards air defense missile Sevastopol-Theodosia regiment (stationed in Feodosia) of the 31st Air Defense Division of the 4th Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Southern Military District which already has two S-400 SAM battalions since 2016) - possibly to start the formation of a group of S-400 SAM battalions to ensure the air defense of the Kerch bridge under construction.

    In total, since the beginning of serial deliveries of S-400 (40P6) SAM systems, 19 regiment complete sets (total 39 or 40 divisions) have been supplied to the Air Force and Air Defense of Russia - one in 2011, two in 2012 and 2013, three in 2014 and 2015 years, five in 2016, and three already - in 2017. the pre-production set S-400 of the two-division structure was delivered in 2007-2009 to the 606th anti-aircraft missile regiment in Elektrostal (Moscow region), in 2015 one of the divisions of this set of the 606th regiment was transferred for training purposes in The 11th training center for anti-aircraft missile troops of the VKS (Gatchina, Leningrad region), and in return the regiment received a two-divisional S-400 SAM package for a new delivery of 2015.


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:18 pm

    They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

    Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:48 am

    Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

    Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

    You need highly-trained pilots for fighters and for a huge country like Russia, it takes time to dispatch fighters to where are needed (assuming that they can be spared...). In wartime I would rather have a dense multi-layered SAM-based defense system ready to shoot down anything that didn't show as friendly on IFF, and locate then at (a) high value facilities/cities, and (b) to plug gaps in fighter-based AD coverage.
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    kvs

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  kvs on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:14 am

    Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

    Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

    These are orthogonal entities so your argument fails. Fighters can't carry ABM missiles. All the talk is about the S-500 being an ABM
    system. In fact, the S-400 can be turned into one simply by using the same missiles. As posted above, there are already Mach 15
    target interceptors in a small form factor. Cranking them up to Mach 25 target interceptors does not look like an impossibility to me.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:42 am

    kvs wrote:
    Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

    Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

    These are orthogonal entities so your argument fails.   Fighters can't carry ABM missiles.   All the talk is about the S-500 being an ABM
    system.  In fact, the S-400 can be turned into one simply by using the same missiles.    As posted above, there are already Mach 15
    target interceptors in a small form factor.   Cranking them up to Mach 25 target interceptors does not look like an impossibility to me.

    I didn't mean to replace all of them but for 1 S-400 which cost like 500 million $ (at least for export version) you could buy a squadron of Su-30. And Russia is getting a lot of S-400 in a record time.

    Russia needs more fighters now than S-400. ABM role is not a big argument too. Who would try a nuclear war with a country that has like 10 000 nuks ?

    France has only 300 nuks and 0 long range ABM system and no one would Attack them.


    You need highly-trained pilots for fighters and for a huge country like Russia, it takes time to dispatch fighters to where are needed (assuming that they can be spared...). In wartime I would rather have a dense multi-layered SAM-based defense system ready to shoot down anything that didn't show as friendly on IFF, and locate then at (a) high value facilities/cities, and (b) to plug gaps in fighter-based AD coverage.

    Yeah I agree but with the introduction of stealthy jet, you will need lot of Aircraft to Attack their position too. When operating, S-400 are static defences so you can lunch missiles at them by staying out of range.

    You need highly trained operators for S-400 too, it is not a old Igla manpad where you just look at the target and shoot. At least for a fighter you need 1 or 2 pilot/operator, but for S-400 you need much more.

    Russia is huge but the areas to protect are not ... You will have to protect western side and the South east. No need to protect Siberia, it would be also difficult for someone to go that deep and come back because of the distance.


    Last edited by Isos on Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total

    Tingsay

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Tingsay on Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:51 am

    Isos wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

    Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

    These are orthogonal entities so your argument fails.   Fighters can't carry ABM missiles.   All the talk is about the S-500 being an ABM
    system.  In fact, the S-400 can be turned into one simply by using the same missiles.    As posted above, there are already Mach 15
    target interceptors in a small form factor.   Cranking them up to Mach 25 target interceptors does not look like an impossibility to me.

    I didn't mean to replace all of them but for 1 S-400 which cost like 500 million $ (at least for export version) you could buy a squadron of Su-30. And Russia is getting a lot of S-400 in a record time.

    Russia needs more fighters now than S-400. ABM role is not a big argument too. Who would try a nuclear war with a country that has like 10 000 nuks ?

    France has only 300 nuks and 0 long range ABM system and no one would Attack them.


    Because S-400 is hot right now? I'm under the impression Russia knows it doesn't really need it now but is purchasing them to boost confidence in foreign buyers.
    Overall I agree with you though, Russia needs more planes right now.
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:06 am

    Just having fighters or just having SAMs makes you vulnerable... having both makes a much more difficult task to defeat for your enemy.

    A fighter plane can fly outside of your territory to inspect an incoming threat and determine if it is hostile or innocent.

    A fighter and a SAM can work together to find and engage multiple targets much better than either could on their own.

    A SAM has a restricted range but is always there defending.

    A fighter is much more flexible but its operational costs in terms of training and the weapons it launches would make it more expensive to have than a SAM battery that can use old near expired missiles for testing and training.


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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos on Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:52 am

    GarryB wrote:Just having fighters or just having SAMs makes you vulnerable... having both makes a much more difficult task to defeat for your enemy.

    A fighter plane can fly outside of your territory to inspect an incoming threat and determine if it is hostile or innocent.

    A fighter and a SAM can work together to find and engage multiple targets much better than either could on their own.

    A SAM has a restricted range but is always there defending.

    A fighter is much more flexible but its operational costs in terms of training and the weapons it launches would make it more expensive to have than a SAM battery that can use old near expired missiles for testing and training.

    I totaly disagree with the last part. S-400 missiles are much more expensive than a R-60/73 or R27/77.

    Russia doesn't have enough modern fighters right now. Old Su-27 and Mig-29 SMT, even modernized, will be in big trouble against F-35 or last variants of Rafale, Typhoon. They should spend less for air defence and more for Su-35 and Pak Fa.

    And it's not like if they were buying stuff from foreign countries, they produce their own fighter so the money goes to Russians again, the higher cost is not a big problem, specially during war when you don't care about the cost because the factories are in Russia.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  rambo54 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:38 pm

    Interesting ... a 5P85S2 launcher from the 590th AD RGT (S-400 unit) was seen in the Novosibirsk area loaded with 5V55 instead of 48N6...
    5V55 is usually deployed with S-300PS and early S-300PM.



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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:55 pm

    Isos wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Just having fighters or just having SAMs makes you vulnerable... having both makes a much more difficult task to defeat for your enemy.

    A fighter plane can fly outside of your territory to inspect an incoming threat and determine if it is hostile or innocent.

    A fighter and a SAM can work together to find and engage multiple targets much better than either could on their own.

    A SAM has a restricted range but is always there defending.

    A fighter is much more flexible but its operational costs in terms of training and the weapons it launches would make it more expensive to have than a SAM battery that can use old near expired missiles for testing and training.

    I totaly disagree with the last part. S-400 missiles are much more expensive than a R-60/73 or R27/77.

    Russia doesn't have enough modern fighters right now. Old Su-27 and Mig-29 SMT, even modernized, will be in big trouble against F-35 or last variants of Rafale, Typhoon. They should spend less for air defence and more for Su-35 and Pak Fa.

    And it's not like if they were buying stuff from foreign countries, they produce their own fighter so the money goes to Russians again, the higher cost is not a big problem, specially during war when you don't care about the cost because the factories are in Russia.

    the missiles may be expensive but the method is a long term cheapness. A lot of these AD systems are automated and controlled by a central station so it can be unmanned for a huge part of it. As well, training for pilots are expensive. Their method is a long term solution of a mixture of keeping businesses alive and steady supply of equipment. Su-27 still have upgrade potentials that will make it competitive against the other 4++ gen aircraft, plus they have a relatively decent sized air force as is. While I agree they need more, it will take time for that
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    franco

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  franco on Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:42 pm

    rambo54 wrote:Interesting ... a 5P85S2 launcher from the 590th AD RGT (S-400 unit) was seen in the Novosibirsk area loaded with 5V55 instead of 48N6...
    5V55 is usually deployed with S-300PS and early S-300PM.




    The 5V55U although smaller then the 48N6 had the same range of 150 km so "waste not, want not". There have been reports that all PM systems have been or soon will be upgraded to PMU1/2 level, which has some compatibility with the 400 and lately even that some of the PS systems were being upgraded to ?? standards. So perhaps this missile and some conversion of later model 300PS TEL's to carry 300PM missiles is what has occurred. Another 50-100 TEL's and 1,000 missiles would I'm sure be useful... hypothetically speaking. Smile
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:52 pm

    franco wrote:
    rambo54 wrote:Interesting ... a 5P85S2 launcher from the 590th AD RGT (S-400 unit) was seen in the Novosibirsk area loaded with 5V55 instead of 48N6...
    5V55 is usually deployed with S-300PS and early S-300PM.




    The 5V55U although smaller then the 48N6 had the same range of 150 km so "waste not, want not". There have been reports that all PM systems have been or soon will be upgraded to PMU1/2 level, which has some compatibility with the 400 and lately even that some of the PS systems were being upgraded to ?? standards. So perhaps this missile and some conversion of later model 300PS TEL's to carry 300PM missiles is what has occurred. Another 50-100 TEL's and 1,000 missiles would I'm sure be useful... hypothetically speaking.   Smile

    extremely useful imo. Anything considered to be compromised would be older systems sensors and comm structure like the radar. All that can be changed with the radar systems that are new working with the older missiles, and the older missiles undergoing some upgrades/tweaks of their sensors to remove any comrpormise, which would rather be cheap and give the AD system that much more importance.

    Anyway, I'm excited for S-350.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:20 pm

    S-400 SAM system regiment to be on "active duty" from Feb 2017 in Sevastopol

    https://t.co/lkHcPrs02z


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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:03 am

    I totaly disagree with the last part. S-400 missiles are much more expensive than a R-60/73 or R27/77.

    To purchase, yes, but to operate you are talking about millions of dollars in trained people to fly and operate those aircraft and all the support aircraft and air fields they need to operate from.

    Certainly a Fighter aircraft is much more flexible than a SAM system, but in terms of bang per buck a major SAM system can use UAVs and extensive ground radar coverage to support their operations and yet there is no risk of your SAMs being shot down intercepting enemy fighters.

    On the other hand an enemy could launch an attack of UAVs or fighters to lure your fighters to respond and then try to take out all your fighters.

    ARH AAMs are not cheap and you need to keep your planes flying to keep them effective.

    SAM batteries can train using previous generation missiles and old missiles as they time expire much more cheaply.


    Russia doesn't have enough modern fighters right now. Old Su-27 and Mig-29 SMT, even modernized, will be in big trouble against F-35 or last variants of Rafale, Typhoon. They should spend less for air defence and more for Su-35 and Pak Fa.

    I don't agree... SMT and SM3 models of Flankers and Fulcrums, when supported by SAMs will fully be able to blunt any NATO attack into Russia.

    They have plenty of options including mass cruise missile attacks against NATO airfields... NATO would be in serious trouble very quickly... despite their shiny over priced toys.

    When was the last time any of them came up against a competent well equipped enemy?

    And it's not like if they were buying stuff from foreign countries, they produce their own fighter so the money goes to Russians again, the higher cost is not a big problem, specially during war when you don't care about the cost because the factories are in Russia.

    The point I was trying to make was that just having fighters or just having SAMs limits flexibility and capability.

    Having them both means they can work together and it enhances the benefits of both systems while minimising their negative aspects.

    Su-27 still have upgrade potentials that will make it competitive against the other 4++ gen aircraft, plus they have a relatively decent sized air force as is. While I agree they need more, it will take time for that

    Not every NATO aircraft is a Typhoon or Rafale or F-35, in fact just looking for and shooting down enemy cruise missiles would be more valuable than the longest range SAM.

    On the flat Steppe even SA-3 can shoot down UAVs and UCAVs and cruise missiles efficiently... it is just a question of being aware of what sensors and weapons are connected to the IADS and using weapons and sensors efficiently...


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