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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  kvs on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:34 pm

    auslander wrote:There's only one problem with the US end of this saga. Story is they attacked to protect their 'allies' during an attack by Syrian forces. Here's the list, from the horse's mouth, of what they used in this sudden counterattack 'from the air'. Tell me what's wrong with this picture.

    F-15, AH-64, MQ-9, AC-130 gunships, AH-64 Apaches, B-52.

    LOL.   They scrambled a strategic bomber from a remote location to respond to a tactical situation.     The B-52 proves that the Yankeestanis are lying through their teeth.    The turn around time for a B-52 deployment requires fore-knowledge of the attack.

    PS. The above proves that this is a deliberately staged event. The chorus of NATO and 5th column Russian propaganda
    is intended to meddle in Russia's presidential election. The US wants to paint Putin as a liar who is squandering hundreds
    of Russian lives in secret ground forces deployments in Syria. They expect that the poll numbers will sag and pounce on
    this as proof that Putin is not legitimate. (Because 1+1=3 when it comes to Russia).
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:55 pm

    It was Russians who said it was utter bullshit too. Even majority of people. It was the rag tag gossip press that believed it (Novaya Hazeta first pushed it I believe, which should be indication not to believe it. The VG and others. It spread too much that even good news sites were quoting it but with hesitation.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:11 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:So you link fucking Western fake news garbage that Russian MoD confirmed it, but provided no Russian links regarding it?

    This is what was said

    http://tass.com/politics/990166

    Preliminary reports state it's 5. Likely? Probably.

    https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/964129725575843841

    Want my guess? These guys that died may have been volunteers for ISIS hunters since ISIS hunters got hit, and they want blood in retaliation. Wagner group is a lie, but these paramilitary groups are not, since that isn't illegal.


    Get real already. Someone on the ground decided to develop entrepreneurial spirit and to do job on the side for some local businessmen. SAA elements and some Wagner creatives grew egos and tried to make some cash without clearing it with Russian Military.

    Russian Military has long track record of not tolerating random clowns going rogue and doing things on their own so they ditched them as usual. It's not the first time this happened if you remember SAA's legendary solo push on Raqqa.

    You think someone would have learned the rules by now but apparently there is no shortage of idiots out there.

    USAF used chance for cheap PR promo and dropped everything and the kitchen sink on them.

    What RU MoD needs to do now is to clearly explain to it's public difference between soldiers and mercenaries. Pentagon failed to do the same back in Iraq so they were stuck "avenging" those Blackwater mercs that got strung up due to public pressure.

    We already have family members of those mercenaries going on "Radio Free Europe" demanding Russian Military to "avenge" those clowns. Bullshit.

    Vengeance is for soldiers. If there mercenaries wanted right to vengeance they should have served in the Military. But military does not pay as much does it?

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:21 pm

    I still hold that they are not Wagner since there is so little details to it and the investigation that Scott did was pretty intense. I think they were more likely as IS IS Hunter paramilitary. Which, if you check out the Russian defence Twitter account, some old photos show up of what clearly is a white guy covering majority his face while wearing ISIS Hunter outfit.

    https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/883293324576206849
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:46 pm



    U.S. Strikes and Russian PMC Casualties in Syria – Fact vs Fiction

    https://russianmilitaryanalysis.wordpress.com/2018/02/14/u-s-strikes-and-russian-pmc-casualties-in-syria-fact-vs-fiction/
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    calm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  calm on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:58 pm

    Detail article with translation of all major stories published in Russian about Russian PMC involvement in clashes with SDF on Euphrates, which ultimately led to US aviation airstrikes. Including a long interview with wife of killed fighter
    https://el-temif-1.livejournal.com/6006.html

    This was a classic ambush by US war criminals. They targeted troops in stationary position, not on the move. That video posted before, shows airstrike on group of people in middle of SAA controlled village. It is obvious that SDF attacked SAA and SAA responded, in the same time out of nowhere all that aviation power appeared, yeah right.


    miketheterrible wrote:So you link fucking Western fake news garbage that Russian MoD confirmed it, but provided no Russian links regarding it?

    Calm down.

    kvs wrote:

    I am still to see a single cell phone image of a dead Russian merc.  It is clear that this story is being manipulated to meddle in
    the Russian presidential election.  

    Yea, like Putin can lose. He will get 82% of votes instead of 83% because of this, get real.


    Also, we should keep in mid that there were some people from ukraina and other places, not just Russia. So Whole number may be around 5 Russian, it can easily be around 10/15 PMC guys. And that number of 100 dead Russians is classis disinformation spread by media, they just counted all SAA and other militias casualties in that numbers/s.

    This
    PapaDragon wrote:

    U.S. Strikes and Russian PMC Casualties in Syria – Fact vs Fiction

    https://russianmilitaryanalysis.wordpress.com/2018/02/14/u-s-strikes-and-russian-pmc-casualties-in-syria-fact-vs-fiction/


    @edit by calm
    Actual casualties among PMCs in this episode are likely somewhere on the order of 13-15 dead and a relatively equal number wounded. Closer to a dozen than dozens. The casualties  from this strike are spread between a Syrian unit known as ISIS Hunters (~20 KIA) and the bulk among SAA units which seemed to include some percentage of local fighters from the area (these numbers might be around 40). There is word of a Syrian brigadier killed as well along with the SAA soldiers. More than likely this was an element of Syria’s 5th Assault Corps supported by PMCs. The 13-15 PMC casualties are also not all necessarily Russian, but thus far all the confirmed dead are. A good number seem to be Cossacks, and many are fighters who previously were part of separatist formations in the Donbas, either directly on behalf of DNR or under contract as mercs.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:38 pm

    Wasn't really directed at you calm. Just that I think it's best not to use Western press.

    Anyway, the government state it was 5. And it's still not verified itself as they don't know for sure. I guess as Papa said about that if your a mercenary doing this, you are on your own.

    We have that rule in Canada. We have mercs everywhere and plenty of Canadians get caught and imprisoned for mercenary work and effectively the government states "you are on your own based upon your own choice of work".

    par far

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  par far on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:39 pm

    Would it make sense to send the S 400 to Deir ez-Zor? Clear out the desert area(which is already happening), take out the terrorists cells in and out around Deir ez-Zor, make security around Deir ez-Zor tight and send the S 400 system. Would this work?
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  kvs on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:10 pm

    par far wrote:Would it make sense to send the S 400 to Deir ez-Zor? Clear out the desert area(which is already happening), take out the terrorists cells in and out around Deir ez-Zor, make security around Deir ez-Zor tight and send the S 400 system. Would this work?

    They need a full on campaign against the "SDF-ISIS" freedom fighters. It seems that the SAA is focused on the western side of the country to remove the jihadi pockets. I expect that later the SAA will focus its attention on the eastern side of the Euphrates. Probably Russia will give them more assistance than many expect.

    par far

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  par far on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:37 pm

    kvs wrote:
    par far wrote:Would it make sense to send the S 400 to Deir ez-Zor? Clear out the desert area(which is already happening), take out the terrorists cells in and out around Deir ez-Zor, make security around Deir ez-Zor tight and send the S 400 system. Would this work?

    They need a full on campaign against the "SDF-ISIS" freedom fighters.   It seems that the SAA is focused on the western side of the country to remove the jihadi pockets.   I expect that later the SAA will focus its attention on the eastern side of the Euphrates.    Probably Russia will give them more assistance than many expect.

    Would this not bring Russia into direct conflict against the US?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:40 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:......

    We have that rule in Canada. We have mercs everywhere and plenty of Canadians get caught and imprisoned for mercenary work and effectively the government states "you are on your own based upon your own choice of work".

    Same thing here. We had one killed year ago in Syria and couple of years before that two got killed somewhere in South America (Bolivia or Columbia can't remember exactly).

    And every time reaction is pretty much "well it sucks but whaddya gonna do, it happens..."

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:45 pm

    par far wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    par far wrote:Would it make sense to send the S 400 to Deir ez-Zor? Clear out the desert area(which is already happening), take out the terrorists cells in and out around Deir ez-Zor, make security around Deir ez-Zor tight and send the S 400 system. Would this work?

    They need a full on campaign against the "SDF-ISIS" freedom fighters.   It seems that the SAA is focused on the western side of the country to remove the jihadi pockets.   I expect that later the SAA will focus its attention on the eastern side of the Euphrates.    Probably Russia will give them more assistance than many expect.

    Would this not bring Russia into direct conflict against the US?

    why? that's called a proxy war isn't it?

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:46 pm

    The real Story here.. is that americans and NATO are committed to kill Russian soldiers , in Syria
    and Putin the weak President is committed to do nothing about it. No

    US airforce goes bombs Russia military base in Syria... yes you heard that right..
    using drones , they provided to terrorist in IDLIB and then they helped to guide.. and then
    Putin did nothing to retaliate.. No warning ... and basically did nothing to dissuade its enemies
    to continue threatening the security of Russia military and its special forces.

    I will not be surprised if Russia lost military in Syria consequence of Putin weakness
    into counter US military in Syria illegally violating Syria airspace ,aiding ISIS and bombing
    the syrian army and its advisors aiding them.

    If i was a politician of any country ..and i saw this.. how weak is Russia ,is protecting
    its allies.. or stopping United States ,then this will be a major reason to not seek any alliance
    or open cooperation with Russia ,so to not be targeted.. SO effectively.. this proof my point..
    PUTIN's weakness ,insecurity and lack of leadership , is what makes Russia to be disrespected so much
    in the world ,and what makes Russia to be without allies in Syria.. among the developed nations
    in the world. Not even Belarus ,Kazakistan or CHina sent a single jet to help Russia.. While Americans
    that everyone knows is aiding ISIS.. have a 40 nations coalition.  No  

    IT shows Russia influence in the world is very low.. and only rejected nations like IRAN ,CUba support it.
    Hopefully Russia already warned its "Western partners" in private of major military response of any other attack
    on their soldiers and base..  if not.. then it will be a matter of time for more Russian soldiers/citizens killed in "self defense" or by "mistake".


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  MechanizedOne on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:58 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    US airforce goes bombs Russia military base in Syria...

    Do you have an actual source for this?

    Also why all the Putin bashing? If he was half as weak as you claim that he is Russia would be utterly screwed, instead it is stable. Without him Russia would be, as par far said before, a "McDonalds for Jewish Oligarchs".

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:17 am

    MechanizedOne wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:

    US airforce goes bombs Russia military base in Syria...

    Do you have an actual source for this?

    Also why all the Putin bashing? If he was half as weak as you claim that he is Russia would be utterly screwed, instead it is stable. Without him Russia would be, as par far said before, a "McDonalds for Jewish Oligarchs".

    The mortar attack in december on Russia military base.. killed 2 soldiers, and was done by
    terrorist that Erdogan and Americans provide weapons..

    The kamikazi drones armed with bombs ,that attacked that same military base days later , it was using GPS
    advanced  inertial navigation system and and corrected its trajectory with an American spy plane that flew over the
    Russian base and Putin allowed them to fly over there.  No

    So Americans not even hide their attacks on Russia military now.. and Putin look to the other side..

    Now we have this major attack on Syrian army ,that for sure Putin knew there was Private contractors near /advisors..
    and what Putin did ? Nothing...  

    When Turkey shot down Russian plane... that by the way also did nothing to Turkey , the rescue team was attacked
    by terrorist armed with American TOW missiles..

    The attack on the mobile hospital with precision mortar artillery in aleppo ,again coordinated by GPS... with major precision killed Russian doctors and Russian nurses.. and what Putin DID ? Nothing.

    Putin weakness in Syria cause major security problems to Russian citizens/soldiers/pilots in Syria..

    On top sending close support planes to dangerous mission without any protection.. which only shows an incredible
    irresponsibility from Russian leadership.. It appears as if they have very little care of the lives of Russians fighting
    in Syria . Probably many things happens behind cameras ,that we are not aware... but whatever Putin is doing..
    is not earning the respect of NATO or any other faction in Syria.

    My Prediction is ,Russia will lose soldiers in the next week ,bombed by Americans and Putin again will do nothing.
    Why i believe this? Because US is at war with Russia already and their only role in Syria is to sabotage Russia
    operations and Syrian army fight against isis and to partition Syria. So US military have to be planning their next
    attack on Russia ,to embarrass again Russia and damage Putin image in the next election..

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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Regular on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:24 am

    So now you are making it sound like Russian PMC didn't fight for Russian cause in Syria? They are more flexible then military in this fluid conflict. Yes, their job carries risks, but you can be that cynical, they are fighting for the same cause as people in uniform.

    Russia should bring tons of equipment to Syria and wipe US advisors and their pets from Syria with overhelming strikes. Other option is for Russia to submit and try to avoid confrontation with much stronger opponent.

    Karl Haushofer

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:44 am

    Reuters:
    More than 300 Russian mercenary soldiers died or were injured in US attack in Syria: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-casualtie/russian-toll-in-syria-battle-was-300-killed-and-wounded-sources-idUSKCN1FZ2DZ

    About 300 men working for a Kremlin-linked Russian private military firm were either killed or injured in Syria last week, according to three sources familiar with the matter.

    A Russian military doctor said around 100 had been killed, and a source who knows several of the fighters said the death toll was in excess of 80 men.

    wrote:

    The military doctor, who works in a Moscow military hospital and was directly involved in the treatment of wounded men evacuated from Syria, said that as of Saturday evening there were more than 50 such patients in his hospital, of which around 30 percent were seriously wounded. wrote:

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:45 am

    Yevgeny Shabayev, leader of a local chapter of a paramilitary Cossack organization who has ties to Russian military contractors, said he had visited acquaintances injured in Syria at the defense ministry’s Central Hospital in Khimki, on the outskirts of Moscow, on Wednesday.

    He said the wounded men had told him that the two units of Russian contractors involved in the battle near Deir al-Zor numbered 550 men. Of those, there are now about 200 who are not either dead or wounded, the wounded men had told him.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:50 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Reuters:
    More than 300 Russian mercenary soldiers died or were injured in US attack in Syria: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-casualtie/russian-toll-in-syria-battle-was-300-killed-and-wounded-sources-idUSKCN1FZ2DZ






    Here are the problems with this article.

    1. Unnamed sources

    2. The doctor stated he wasn't allowed to talk...but he talked to the press in this day and age people will know if you talked to the press when you weren't supposed to. so if he didn't wanted to be identified that doesn't matter the guys who he tried to hide from will be aware he talked also if no name is given why should the information be considered credible.

    Let alone a freaking military doctor he would be under watch at that point.


    Therefor this is bogus. To much "No names" crap going on for this to be serious. I happen to know it's bs btw, I know the Forward Air Traffic Controller who marked them for airstrikes.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Yevgeny Shabayev, leader of a local chapter of a paramilitary Cossack organization who has ties to Russian military contractors, said he had visited acquaintances injured in Syria at the defense ministry’s Central Hospital in Khimki, on the outskirts of Moscow, on Wednesday.

    He said the wounded men had told him that the two units of Russian contractors involved in the battle near Deir al-Zor numbered 550 men. Of those, there are now about 200 who are not either dead or wounded, the wounded men had told him.

    Hey buttercup.....that guy doesn't exist......There is no cossack leader with ties to a russian pMC by that name.

    so yeah that aticle is 100 percent fake.

    Karl Haushofer

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:08 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:Yevgeny Shabayev, leader of a local chapter of a paramilitary Cossack organization who has ties to Russian military contractors, said he had visited acquaintances injured in Syria at the defense ministry’s Central Hospital in Khimki, on the outskirts of Moscow, on Wednesday.

    He said the wounded men had told him that the two units of Russian contractors involved in the battle near Deir al-Zor numbered 550 men. Of those, there are now about 200 who are not either dead or wounded, the wounded men had told him.

    Hey buttercup.....that guy doesn't exist......There is no cossack leader with ties to a russian pMC by that name.

    so yeah that aticle is 100 percent fake.
    How do you know there is not a cossack leader with that name?

    MechanizedOne

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  MechanizedOne on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:26 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    The mortar attack in december on Russia military base.. killed 2 soldiers, and was done by
    terrorist that Erdogan and Americans provide weapons..

    The kamikazi drones armed with bombs ,that attacked that same military base days later , it was using GPS
    advanced  inertial navigation system and and corrected its trajectory with an American spy plane that flew over the
    Russian base and Putin allowed them to fly over there.  No

    So Americans not even hide their attacks on Russia military now.. and Putin look to the other side..

    Now we have this major attack on Syrian army ,that for sure Putin knew there was Private contractors near /advisors..
    and what Putin did ? Nothing...  

    When Turkey shot down Russian plane... that by the way also did nothing to Turkey , the rescue team was attacked
    by terrorist armed with American TOW missiles..

    The attack on the mobile hospital with precision mortar artillery in aleppo ,again coordinated by GPS... with major precision killed Russian doctors and Russian nurses.. and what Putin DID ? Nothing.

    Putin weakness in Syria cause major security problems to Russian citizens/soldiers/pilots in Syria..

    On top sending close support planes to dangerous mission without any protection.. which only shows an incredible
    irresponsibility from Russian leadership.. It appears as if they have very little care of the lives of Russians fighting
    in Syria . Probably many things happens behind cameras ,that we are not aware... but whatever Putin is doing..
    is not earning the respect of NATO or any other faction in Syria.

    My Prediction is ,Russia will lose soldiers in the next week ,bombed by Americans and Putin again will do nothing.
    Why i believe this? Because US is at war with Russia already and their only role in Syria is to sabotage Russia
    operations and Syrian army fight against isis and to partition Syria. So US military have to be planning their next
    attack on Russia ,to embarrass again Russia and damage Putin image in the next election..


    Ah I didn't realize that you were referring to the attack in December. The way you said it made it sound like it had happened along with the Russian PMC attack, which is why I asked for a source.

    As others have mentioned it looks like NATO/US is trying to provoke Russia into a response which would let them justify some sort of direct, serious action against Russia aside from economic sanctions and "blacklists". Whether this action is an all-out war against Russia (doubtful because it would eventually turn nuclear and destroy the world that the US hopes to rule over) or some sort of direct intervention against Russian forces in Syria I cannot say.

    This puts Russia in an extremely difficult position. Do nothing (overtly) and let the Americans keep bombing their PMCs and allies, or take action and give NATO/US the justification that it needs and possibly cause a nuclear war? I think that the former is the best option. I think that Putin believes this as well, so it is good that he is being cautious.

    You are correct in pointing out that we have no idea what is going on "behind closed doors" (i.e in the covert spy world) so hopefully Russia is retaliating there as much as it can to make the US think twice before they keep doing stuff like this.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:39 am

    How would 300 russian guys be in the same place in syria and no one knows that ?
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:57 am

    Isos wrote:How would 300 russian guys be in the same place in syria and no one knows that ?

    Its a BS lie, nothing but agitprop, probably in an attempt to cause agitation within Russia to cause problems for Putin leading into the election. Only a fuckwit would put any faith in reports from Reuters or any of our presstitute MSM whores.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:36 pm

    As others have mentioned it looks like NATO/US is trying to provoke Russia into a response which would let them justify some sort of direct, serious action against Russia aside from economic sanctions and "blacklists". Whether this action is an all-out war against Russia (doubtful because it would eventually turn nuclear and destroy the world that the US hopes to rule over) or some sort of direct intervention against Russian forces in Syria I cannot say.

    Nothing like that IMHO, medials war,economical on higher level  yes, proxy war? too but as ling as Russian nukes can reach Fashington DC no direct intervention takes place.



    You are correct in pointing out that we have no idea what is going on "behind closed doors" (i.e in the covert spy world) so hopefully Russia is retaliating there as much as it can to make the US think twice before they keep doing stuff like this.

    Again proxy war -Syria's territory, once western Syria is cleaned time to possibly repeat "Israeli scenario" with AAD salvos.

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