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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:34 pm

    lycantrop wrote:Russia should go "full retard" and fire salvos of Iskander missiles on every HQ/warehouse... of this subanimals, dont know why they are so reluctant.
    That sounds a bit of a "full retard" suggestion to me. Ever thought through the implications of some of the things you say?
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Isos on Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:41 pm


    Those are two s-25 rockets. It would be intersting to know if they are upgraded to be guided by laser. Anyway it don t need really guidance because it has a range of 3km and a warhead of 190kg so it won t miss the target.

    But it is worth noting that they fired two in the same time so two at a same target. Such rocket could destroy any target with one fire. Why use two at one target ??

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-25_(rocket)
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:24 pm


    Fake fortunately. Still, amount of fuckups has grown exponentially during last several weeks. They should get their crap together.

    Moscow Denies Allegations Daesh Captured Two Russian Servicemen in Syria

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201709281057782235-russia-daesh-servicemen-captured-fake/

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  lycantrop on Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:19 pm

    russians also dont fight them with 100% effectivness, are they afraid of uncle sam or what?

    for example:

    Each time they send an T-95 bear from russia, who fly through Iran/Iraq all the way down to syria air, is carrying only 1-2 K-101 cruise missiles.
    What the hell are they doing? Its a waste of ressources/time/effectivness....
    T-95 Bear can carry up to 12 missiles of this type!
    They are sending a T-95 from far away only to blow up 1-2 targets, what a waste!
    I dont believe they cant determine 5-10 targets and blow them up in one route.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  lycantrop on Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:06 pm

    worth reading

    Signals Intel treachery targeted Russian general killed in Deir-Ezzor

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/09/26/signals-intelligence-targeted-russian-general-killed-in-deir-ezzor/
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    auslander

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  auslander on Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:41 pm

    lycantrop wrote:russians also dont fight them with 100% effectivness, are they afraid of uncle sam or what?

    for example:

    Each time they send an T-95 bear from russia, who fly through Iran/Iraq all the way down to syria air, is carrying only 1-2 K-101 cruise missiles.
    What the hell are they doing? Its a waste of ressources/time/effectivness....
    T-95 Bear can carry up to 12 missiles of this type!
    They are sending a T-95 from far away only to blow up 1-2 targets, what a waste!
    I dont believe they cant determine 5-10 targets and blow them up in one route.

    In your adolescent pontifications did you ever take in to consideration the fact that all the heavy bomber crews are getting some stick and shooting time in? They, like the various lighter aircraft crews, are being rotated in and out of the AO as are the ground and support units and Navy. This is called 'blooding the units'.

    Nice to see you back, by the by.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:55 pm

    auslander wrote:
    lycantrop wrote:russians also dont fight them with 100% effectivness, are they afraid of uncle sam or what?

    for example:

    Each time they send an T-95 bear from russia, who fly through Iran/Iraq all the way down to syria air, is carrying only 1-2 K-101 cruise missiles.
    What the hell are they doing? Its a waste of ressources/time/effectivness....
    T-95 Bear can carry up to 12 missiles of this type!
    They are sending a T-95 from far away only to blow up 1-2 targets, what a waste!
    I dont believe they cant determine 5-10 targets and blow them up in one route.

    In your adolescent pontifications did you ever take in to consideration the fact that all the heavy bomber crews are getting some stick and shooting time in? They, like the various lighter aircraft crews, are being rotated in and out of the AO as are the ground and support units and Navy. This is called 'blooding the units'.

    Nice to see you back, by the by.
    And just to be picky, they didn't carry 1-2 missiles, it was double that load - 4.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:37 am

    Also, what is this weapon?

    That is an S-25 unguided rocket.

    It is like a super RPG-7... it is a 266mm rocket pod with one tube.

    It comes with two different rocket types... the S-25-O which has a 420mm warhead weighing 150kgs, and the S-25-OFM with a 340mm warhead weighing about the same.

    They are very powerful rockets that are pretty similar to a direct fire 2-3km range 150kg HE bomb.

    There are laser guided variants, but these seem to be the unguided models that are pretty accurate over short ranges anyway.

    Sort of the replacement for the older S-24 which is a 240mm calibre rocket that is launched from a pylon and carries a 125kg warhead.

    But it is worth noting that they fired two in the same time so two at a same target. Such rocket could destroy any target with one fire. Why use two at one target ??

    Balance.

    Plus the detonation of two rockets near a target are vastly more effective than one detonation.

    Each time they send an T-95 bear from russia, who fly through Iran/Iraq all the way down to syria air, is carrying only 1-2 K-101 cruise missiles.
    What the hell are they doing? Its a waste of ressources/time/effectivness....
    T-95 Bear can carry up to 12 missiles of this type!
    They are sending a T-95 from far away only to blow up 1-2 targets, what a waste!
    I dont believe they cant determine 5-10 targets and blow them up in one route.

    Those missiles are not cheap and they need to be sure of the targets... the odds on 12 targets being worth hitting at one time is very low, so you might get hit all 12 targets but only 2-3 of them might be at an optimum time to get the most bad guys.

    Delaying attacks until you have 12 confirmed targets is stupid and unlikely to be more cost effective.

    Also these are subsonic missiles... reports of one attack might get the targets to move from postions in case they are hit too... if you are ready for an attack you are more likely to survive... artillery attacks are generally most effective in the first 30 seconds... after that most people who are able have taken cover and are much harder to injure or kill.



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    lycantrop

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  lycantrop on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:05 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Each time they send an T-95 bear from russia, who fly through Iran/Iraq all the way down to syria air, is carrying only 1-2 K-101 cruise missiles.
    What the hell are they doing? Its a waste of ressources/time/effectivness....
    T-95 Bear can carry up to 12 missiles of this type!
    They are sending a T-95 from far away only to blow up 1-2 targets, what a waste!
    I dont believe they cant determine 5-10 targets and blow them up in one route.

    Those missiles are not cheap and they need to be sure of the targets... the odds on 12 targets being worth hitting at one time is very low, so you might get hit all 12 targets but only 2-3 of them might be at an optimum time to get the most bad guys.

    Delaying attacks until you have 12 confirmed targets is stupid and unlikely to be more cost effective.

    Also these are subsonic missiles... reports of one attack might get the targets to move from postions in case they are hit too... if you are ready for an attack you are more likely to survive... artillery attacks are generally most effective in the first 30 seconds... after that most people who are able have taken cover and are much harder to injure or kill.


    thanks for clarifying, one question, you wrote:

    "the odds on 12 targets being worth hitting at one time is very low, so you might get hit all 12 targets but only 2-3 of them might be at an optimum time to get the most bad guys."

    about the optimum time to hit this rats.

    I suspect each time a T-95 bear is leaving russian border its already tracked by the us.
    As we know US sharing informations with IS, so we can suppose US sharing data in advance to IS that T-95 is coming.
    Im not expert, but possible that they also can track the cruise missile once its dropped, they track the flightpath of the missile.
    data is constantly shared with IS on ground.
    is it possible that russia cant bomb IS "in optimal time" because we can be 100% sure US alarming IS in advance?
    Russia cant "surprise" the rats on ground?
    maybe also they evacuate or hide in underground bases till T-95 is leaving syria?
    this is hypothetical, im just thinking, but I am 100% sure US sees T-95 in advance and can share informations with rats on the ground.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:39 pm

    lycantrop wrote:

    thanks for clarifying, one question, you wrote:

    "the odds on 12 targets being worth hitting at one time is very low, so you might get hit all 12 targets but only 2-3 of them might be at an optimum time to get the most bad guys."

    about the optimum time to hit this rats.

    I suspect each time a T-95 bear is leaving russian border its already tracked by the us.
    As we know US sharing informations with IS, so we can suppose US sharing data in advance to IS that T-95 is coming.
    Im not expert, but possible that they also can track the cruise missile once its dropped, they track the flightpath of the missile.
    data is constantly shared with IS on ground.
    is it possible that russia cant bomb IS "in optimal time" because we can be 100% sure US alarming IS in advance?
    Russia cant "surprise" the rats on ground?
    maybe also they evacuate or hide in underground bases till T-95 is leaving syria?
    this is hypothetical, im just thinking, but I am 100% sure US sees T-95 in advance and can share informations with rats on the ground.
    Unless the US has some kind of database of potential targets for the RuAF, the ability to track aircraft and then missiles is not a lot of use unless there is an obvious target on the track, which might not be the actual target.

    Then there is the possibility that the cruise missile is zig zagging and/or, perhaps less likely, that there is some comms jamming underway.

    I think you are placing too much ability onto both the equipment and ability of terrorists in Syria whilst combining them into one group.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  par far on Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:14 pm

    lycantrop wrote:worth reading

    Signals Intel treachery targeted Russian general killed in Deir-Ezzor

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/09/26/signals-intelligence-targeted-russian-general-killed-in-deir-ezzor/



    What I want to know is, does Russia have the capabilities to track high ranking officers, like it happened in this case?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  lycantrop on Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:16 pm

    par far wrote:
    lycantrop wrote:worth reading

    Signals Intel treachery targeted Russian general killed in Deir-Ezzor

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/09/26/signals-intelligence-targeted-russian-general-killed-in-deir-ezzor/



    What I want to know is, does Russia have the capabilities to track high ranking officers, like it happened in this case?

    I remember shortly after russia blow up CIA command centre near Aleppo (retaliation for killing 100 SAA + 7 russian sappers) russia came with statement:

    "We know where all your commend centres alre located", as a warning.

    So yes, I think russia has very good intel about whats going on on ground...

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  lycantrop on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:20 pm

    im curiouse if this baby is secretly used by russians in Syria, perfect place to test its capabilities:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh9zWweFu7E


    The Listva, a remotely operated mine clearance vehicle capable of detecting and blowing up mines up to 100 meters away, is one such weapon.

    An armored vehicle equipped with a UHF emitter moves in front of a mobile missile system. It detects radio-controlled landmines planted along and away from the road using ground-penetrating radar and then uses ultra-high-frequency rays to neutralize them.

    This is a novel technique, which had never been used before.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  franco on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:24 pm

    lycantrop wrote:im curiouse if this baby is secretly used by russians in Syria, perfect place to test its capabilities:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh9zWweFu7E


    The Listva, a remotely operated mine clearance vehicle capable of detecting and blowing up mines up to 100 meters away, is one such weapon.

    An armored vehicle equipped with a UHF emitter moves in front of a mobile missile system. It detects radio-controlled landmines planted along and away from the road using ground-penetrating radar and then uses ultra-high-frequency rays to neutralize them.

    This is a novel technique, which had never been used before.

    It would make sense but I have not seen any. It is my understanding that the first units were just delivered this year.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:38 pm

    par far wrote:
    lycantrop wrote:worth reading

    Signals Intel treachery targeted Russian general killed in Deir-Ezzor

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/09/26/signals-intelligence-targeted-russian-general-killed-in-deir-ezzor/



    What I want to know is, does Russia have the capabilities to track high ranking officers, like it happened in this case?
    Doubt that there are many if any in Syria now.

    But yes, you track them by their data traffic and voice signature, but most is digital now so pretty difficult.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  franco on Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:01 pm

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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  eehnie on Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:54 am

    lycantrop wrote:
    par far wrote:
    lycantrop wrote:worth reading

    Signals Intel treachery targeted Russian general killed in Deir-Ezzor

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/09/26/signals-intelligence-targeted-russian-general-killed-in-deir-ezzor/



    What I want to know is, does Russia have the capabilities to track high ranking officers, like it happened in this case?

    I remember shortly after russia blow up CIA command centre near Aleppo (retaliation for killing 100 SAA + 7 russian sappers) russia came with statement:

    "We know where all your commend centres alre located", as a warning.

    So yes, I think russia has very good intel about whats going on on ground...

    Surely in the recent bombing campaign this kind of centers have been seriously attacked.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:34 am

    optimum situation for dealing with ISIS... like I've said for several years now... would be to have a very long endurance aircraft armed with a large number of glide bombs.

    you could have 1-2 of these on station, on call 24 hours in the sky. and simply drop ordnance on targets as intel comes in real time.


    the way daesh operates, they learnt the lessons of dealing with intense air bombardment and enemy air supremacy well. its a lesson they learned in 1991 and adjusted their operating procedures to deal with it.. (do remember the isis leadership is all ex-saddami military).

    so they always operate as 1-2 vehicle formations, only "joining" into larger groups at the point of attack... which they leave unclear until the last second. this way they can minimise the chance of being targeted.

    the TU-95s would need to fly out of Syria, fully loaded with fuel and cruise around the skies of ISIS land and pick off targets in real time... using cheap guided ordnance (GLONASS guided small bombs and rockets).

    iraqis began using their AN-32V in such a role as the F-16 / L-159 / SU-25 simply don't have the legs to hang around long enough to actually find something worthwhile to shoot at (except a few fixed targets which daesh try to keep minimal in size and spread around).
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:40 am

    Radio traffic alone... whether it is digital or analog, whether it is encrypted or coded in glaswegian , will locate and identify comms centres and HQs as being such.

    Locating bomb making factories and ammo storage locations would be harder to spot but with special forces operating behind enemy lines looking for targets for air power you will likely find they can detect all sorts of things to attack.

    Sometimes they will need to deal with targets and other times they will wait until a specific time to hit a target.

    For instance an enemy HQ is always a good target but if you spot several high ranking officials entering the building a strike makes more sense sooner rather than later.

    Conversely an ammo storage bunker can be hit just before the enemy is about to go on an offensive to hinder their ability to move and operate.


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  franco on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:11 pm

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  ultimatewarrior on Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:38 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:optimum situation for dealing with ISIS... like I've said for several years now... would be to have a very long endurance aircraft armed with a large number of glide bombs.

    you could have 1-2 of these on station, on call 24 hours in the sky. and simply drop ordnance on targets as intel comes in real time.


    the way daesh operates, they learnt the lessons of dealing with intense air bombardment and enemy air supremacy well. its a lesson they learned in 1991 and adjusted their operating procedures to deal with it.. (do remember the isis leadership is all ex-saddami military).

    so they always operate as 1-2 vehicle formations, only "joining" into larger groups at the point of attack... which they leave unclear until the last second. this way they can minimise the chance of being targeted.

    the TU-95s would need to fly out of Syria, fully loaded with fuel and cruise around the skies of ISIS land and pick off targets in real time... using cheap guided ordnance (GLONASS guided small bombs and rockets).

    iraqis began using their AN-32V in such a role as the F-16 / L-159 / SU-25 simply don't have the legs to hang around long enough to actually find something worthwhile to shoot at (except a few fixed targets which daesh try to keep minimal in size and spread around).

    Meh. The whole place is only 100 km long. Mi-28N can locate and destroy pickup trucks using radars.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:04 am

    Russia deployed the second division of the S-400 surface-to-air missile system in Syria

    According to the magazine "Jane's Defense Weekly" in the article Sean O'Connor, Jeremy Binnie "Second Russian S-400 in Syria confirmed", publishing the space image made on July 2, 2017, in Syria, the Russian side deployed the second division of the S-400 surface-to-air missile system . According to the photo, the positions of the second Russian-deployed S-400 SAM in Syria are located 13 km northwest of the Syrian city of Masjaf (Hama province). According to the publication, the S-400 division was delivered there between April and July 2017.


    Dated July 2, 2017 space image of the second deployed in Syria Russian division of the S-400 surface-to-air missile system in 13 km northwest of the Syrian city of Masjaf (Hama province) (c) CNES / Airbus Defense and Space (via Jane's)

    According to the publication, in November 2016, it was from this position that the Russian side launched the launches of 3M55 Onis missiles on the coastal mobile anti-ship missile system Bastion-P for ground targets in Syria. The "Bastion-P" complex, which was delivered to Syria, is also currently in this position, but all of its vehicles are housed in shelters. Earlier at this position, the S-200VE S-200VE air defense division was stationed in Syria.

    The first S-400 SAM battalion was delivered by the Russian side to Syria in late November 2015 and placed at the airbase of Khmeimim. Like the first division in Humeim, the new second division at Masjaf has a reduced composition of the fire battery, which includes only four self-propelled launchers 5P85SM2-01 on the old special wheeled chassis MZKT-543M. Also, each of the S-400 divisions deployed in Syria includes one 92N6 and 96L6 radar.

    In addition, according to the satellite image, at least one anti-aircraft missile and gun system "Pantsir-S" was deployed at the position of the S-400 SAM battalion at Masjaf. It should be noted that according to the information released by the recent 3-rd International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017", the "Pantsir-S" missile system "in the area of ​​Masjaf" was shot down on March 23, 2017, "on May 4, mini-UAV ", and on July 6 - UAV" type Heron ".

    In the publication "Jane's" it is noted that the position of the second deployed Syrian SAM battalion S-400 is on the coastal mountain range and allows, on the one hand, to provide a significant survey of the division's radar, and on the other hand to block the "shading" of the radar field provided by this ridge Division S-400 from Khmeimim.

    Also in the publication it is noted that, despite the presence of the S-400 SAM battalion at Masyaf, the Russian side did not prevent the Israeli Air Force from attacking Syrian targets in the area of ​​this city, inflicted on September 7.

    The photo published by the magazine is made by the SPOT satellite of the company Airbus Defense and Space (directly received by the French National Center for Space Research - Center National d'Etudes Spatiales - CNES).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2874698.html


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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:40 pm

    One of the dead along with the General. He certainly looked like a Marine that you would want on your side. RIP

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:57 pm

    George1 wrote:

       The first S-400 SAM battalion was delivered by the Russian side to Syria in late November 2015 and placed at the airbase of Khmeimim. Like the first division in Humeim, the new second division at Masjaf has a reduced composition of the fire battery, which includes only four self-propelled launchers 5P85SM2-01 on the old special wheeled chassis MZKT-543M. Also, each of the S-400 divisions deployed in Syria includes one 92N6 and 96L6 radar.

       In addition, according to the satellite image, at least one anti-aircraft missile and gun system "Pantsir-S" was deployed at the position of the S-400 SAM battalion at Masjaf. It should be noted that according to the information released by the recent 3-rd International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017", the "Pantsir-S" missile system "in the area of ​​Masjaf" was shot down on March 23, 2017, "on May 4, mini-UAV ", and on July 6 - UAV" type Heron ".

    Bigger zoom of the launchers, confirms 16 tubes. I would have thought that they would have spaced them out for safety. Obviously this is Russia making a statement and not actually expecting any incoming.

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    George1

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #12

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:12 am

    Russian sapper NW of D.Ezzor, Syria.



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