Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Share
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17226
    Points : 17832
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:06 am

    Interesting that the guy to the left of the guy in front also has a PKP but has a normal mag...

    Perhaps the guy with the normal mag represents the replacement for the RPK-74 in being more mobile, while the guy with the back pack feed system is the PKM replacement for sustained fire power?

    I personally would like to see the RP-16 make it in there...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 318
    Points : 348
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:41 am

    Well the man on the right that has the backpack feed has what apears to be a night sight usualy seen on heavy and tripod mounted MGs so this seems to support Garrys theory that the backpack is meant for fire support.



    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2269
    Points : 2436
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:24 am

    GarryB wrote:Nice.... a PKP with a backpack feed.

    So it's been accepted for service?

    ---

    Here's another novelty...Pecheneg-SP....comes with a silencer





    More here (in Russian)
    Arrow http://zonwar.ru/pulemet/Pesheneg-SP.html

    .
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17226
    Points : 17832
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:11 am

    Or it could just be that that guy got a hold of one and is allowed to use it for testing purposes...

    Those new pictures of the new PKP is interesting... they seem to have moved the bipod back to the gas tube.... in fact looking at the site you got those photos from these images look more like the older PKM when you look at the photos of the PKP.

    These images look larger and heavier while the PKP photos make it look more like a light machine gun.

    For ages the Americans have claimed the bipod on the muzzle improves accuracy, but of course means shooting at moving targets or changing targets is not so easy.

    And the obvious problem that if you have a MG with removable barrels if you carry a spare barrel you also carry a spare bipod whereas the bipod on the gas cylinder on the PKM meant one bipod with the gun and lighter spare barrels...

    To be honest these new photos seem to suggest they have gone back to a removable barrel with a mid mounted bipod.

    BTW the folding buttstock is interesting... especially in the backpack feed arrangement for a compact but full power MG fire power package...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1857
    Points : 1855
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:15 pm

    https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 318
    Points : 348
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:25 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.

    So the AEK-971/A-545 and AK-12 will be adopted.

    Exelent news no plastic guns! Yet another day free of polymer and carbon fiber and all of the asociated garbage.

    A great victory has been won metal is once more victorious.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 1234
    Points : 1232
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:17 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.

    What's wrong with the Ak-74 that they need a replacement ?

    I just saw details for those new rifles and they are very similar, what makes them want both if they share the same parameters ? Are the rifles so different that they need both ?
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 318
    Points : 348
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:47 pm

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.

    What's wrong with the Ak-74 that they need a replacement ?

    I just saw details for those new rifles and they are very similar, what makes them want both if they share the same parameters ? Are the rifles so different that they need both ?

    The AK-74M provides insatisfactory levels of tacticality and thus needs a replacement.

    And the AEK has a counterbalance recoil system aswell as a higher fire rate or 900 mounds per minute two very clear advantages.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1857
    Points : 1855
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:51 pm

    Ak-74M was rather fine, especially it has a lot of upgrade options to it like the tt1000 rail and the other attachments. But AK-12 offers all that pre built into the system, more ergonomic (apparently) and has a lot better recoil management system to it. It's based off of the AK-400 apparently.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 1234
    Points : 1232
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:46 pm

    And the AEK has a counterbalance recoil system aswell as a higher fire rate or 900 mounds per minute two very clear advantages.

    Do you really see the difference when you have only 30 rounds ready to fire ? It's not an anti air machine gun. Most of time they will fire 1, 2 or 3 rounds. After that every weapon become unprecise and I don't think soldiers fires full auto. I m not really interested in small arms, that's why I ask. I know nothing about that.

    If the soldiers are trained well they don't need better arms specially if it is almost the same like the previous one.
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 318
    Points : 348
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:50 pm

    Isos wrote:
    And the AEK has a counterbalance recoil system aswell as a higher fire rate or 900 mounds per minute two very clear advantages.

    Do you really see the difference when you have only 30 rounds ready to fire ? It's not an anti air machine gun. Most of time they will fire 1, 2 or 3 rounds. After that every weapon become unprecise and I don't think soldiers fires full auto. I m not really interested in small arms, that's why I ask. I know nothing about that.

    If the soldiers are trained well they don't need better arms specially if it is almost the same like the previous one.

    Actualy 900 rounds per minute is more controllable because the higher rate of fire gives it smoother less jackhammer like recoil and it has a counterbalance system.
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2822
    Points : 2860
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  franco on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:07 pm

    The newest RPK-16 machine gun goes to the troops

    The concern Kalashnikov and the Defense Ministry signed a contract for the supply of the newest RPK-16 machine guns, the company's general director Alexei Krivoruchko said.

    "There are", - said Krivoruchko, answering the question about the conclusion of the contract, TASS reports.

    In March 2017 it was reported that the serial production of the RPK-16 machine guns is planned for 2018.

    The light machine gun Kalashnikov RPK-16 caliber 5.45 mm was created on the basis of the experience of modern armed conflicts. He was presented at the arms exhibition "Army-2016". Thanks to the possibility of replacing the barrel, the weapon can be used both as a manual machine gun and as an assault rifle.

    Specially for the machine gun developed a new disk store of increased capacity - 96 rounds. It can also be used for Kalashnikov assault rifles.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 11077
    Points : 11554
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:24 am

    franco wrote:The newest RPK-16 machine gun goes to the troops

    The concern Kalashnikov and the Defense Ministry signed a contract for the supply of the newest RPK-16 machine guns, the company's general director Alexei Krivoruchko said.

    "There are", - said Krivoruchko, answering the question about the conclusion of the contract, TASS reports.

    In March 2017 it was reported that the serial production of the RPK-16 machine guns is planned for 2018.

    The light machine gun Kalashnikov RPK-16 caliber 5.45 mm was created on the basis of the experience of modern armed conflicts. He was presented at the arms exhibition "Army-2016". Thanks to the possibility of replacing the barrel, the weapon can be used both as a manual machine gun and as an assault rifle.

    Specially for the machine gun developed a new disk store of increased capacity - 96 rounds. It can also be used for Kalashnikov assault rifles.

    Obviously RPK-16 will replace RPK-74 as the squad ligh machine gun in Russian Army russia


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2822
    Points : 2860
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  franco on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:36 pm

    Don't see too many of them (RPK-74) any more in the Military photos and videos being used by the troops.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5705
    Points : 5746
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  Militarov on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:40 pm

    franco wrote:Don't see too many of them (RPK-74) any more in the Military photos and videos being used by the troops.

    Havent seen one for years myself tbh. Saw it in hands of border guards recently somewhere.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 11077
    Points : 11554
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:39 pm

    The Ministry of Defense of Russia has concluded a contract for the supply of new manual machine guns RPK-16

    JSC "Concern" Kalashnikov "in the extended press release stated that" the beginning of 2018 turned out to be rich in news. First, in the last days of January, AK-12 and AK-15 assault rifles were announced, and on February 6, in an interview with TASS, the general director of the Kalashnikov concern Aleksey Yurievich Krivoruchko told that the concern and the Ministry of Defense of Russia had signed a contract for the supply of new manual RPK-16 machine guns."

    Short TTX RPK-16:

    Caliber: 5.45x39mm
    Weight: 4.5 kg (with a short barrel, without an optical sight, bipods and a store)
    Barrel length: 415 or 580 mm
    Length of the weapon (with a barrel 415 mm): 840-900 mm in combat position, 650 mm with a folded butt
    Capacity of shops: 30, 45 or 95 cartridges
    Rate of fire: 700 rounds per minute





    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3086559.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17226
    Points : 17832
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:33 am

    It was my understanding that the PKP was replacing the RPK-74 as the light machinegun... a bit heavy for a LMG, but with better power and range than any LMG available anywhere.

    It seems that the RPK-16 trades range and power for weight being lighter and having lighter ammo, while remaining effective out to useful ranges.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 318
    Points : 348
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:It was my understanding that the PKP was replacing the RPK-74 as the light machinegun... a bit heavy for a LMG, but with better power and range than any LMG available anywhere.

    It seems that the RPK-16 trades range and power for weight being lighter and having lighter ammo, while remaining effective out to useful ranges.

    The RPK is an SAW not an LMG.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17226
    Points : 17832
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:13 am

    Says who?

    Technically it is an assault rifle with a heavy barrel and a larger magazine.

    And so far the PKM is a SAW too in the sense that it is carried in squads and is an automatic weapon, but lets ignore stupid modern western terms shall we?

    The RPK-74 is a LMG, as is an RPK-16 and a PKP.... because they are all with fixed barrels and are not intended for sustained fire. (OK you can change the barrel on the RPK-16 but you will have a short and long barrels, not several replacements of each for sustained fire)

    A PKM is a general purpose machine gun or medium machine gun.

    Kord is a heavy MG.

    Do the new bayonettes have edges for cutting wood... that would be their only SAW.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 318
    Points : 348
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:10 am

    GarryB wrote:Says who?

    Technically it is an assault rifle with a heavy barrel and a larger magazine.

    but lets ignore stupid modern western terms shall we?

    Well its not as bad as the question of why some idiot decided that the term APC should not apply to a troop carrier with slightly better armament and armor.

    But wait the Russians did the same BTR and BMP oh well.

    GarryB wrote:The RPK-74 is a LMG, as is an RPK-16 and a PKP.... because they are all with fixed barrels and are not intended for sustained fire. (OK you can change the barrel on the RPK-16 but you will have a short and long barrels, not several replacements of each for sustained fire)

    A PKM is a general purpose machine gun or medium machine gun.

    Kord is a heavy MG.

    No the PKS is the tripod mounted medium machinegun used to complicate logistics the PKM is the LMG and the PKP is an improved PKM

    The reason the west uses SAWs is because thier soldiers are a bunch of usless panzies who cannot even comprehend the idea of using a fully automatic weapon chambered in a full power rifle round.

    The reason Russia uses RPKs is that it uses the same ammunition as the AK-74.

    GarryB wrote:Do the new bayonettes have edges for cutting wood... that would be their only SAW.

    Best quote I have seen on this forum so far.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1470
    Points : 1469
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:22 pm

    Is Russia lacking proper sniper rifles?

    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1857
    Points : 1855
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:43 pm

    The Dragunov to this day is probably the best fielded sniper rifle for an infantry unit. High power, good range, good accuracy, etc. With modern technologies, they managed to reduce the weight, increase ergnonomics, and increase options for scopes and attachments. As reported in the video, they are still more or less figuring out the high caliber rifles. There has been some interesting work of course in it.

    Peŕrier

    Posts : 220
    Points : 220
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Post  Peŕrier on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:00 pm

    Actually, a SAW should be intended as an automatic weapon able to operate along infantrymen while an LMG should be operated from behind them, even if deployed at the squad level.

    Of course there is no clear boundary between one or another.

    At least, a SAW should not have too great recoil and should be possible to move it around just like an assault rifle, so having a closed fire cycle, while an LMG could be either heavier with less felt recoil, or on opposite have a stronger recoil with around the same weight, could even have an open fire cycle, but should anyway be mostly used from a prone position.

    Think of the two extremes: RPK and PKM, both of them deployable at the squad level, but the first being more suited to actually going along the advanced elements of a squad, while the latter would find a more natural role into providing them fire support from a little behind.


    Last edited by Peŕrier on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

    par far

    Posts : 1530
    Points : 1693
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  par far on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:12 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Is Russia lacking proper sniper rifles?




    After watching that video, it is very apparent, that Russia is lacking proper sniper rifles and it is behind the US in sniper rifles.

    The experience in Syria will really help Russian engineers build the correct sniper rifles, Russia has the know how to build very good sniper rifles, Lobaev arms proves this.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1857
    Points : 1855
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:47 pm

    par far wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Is Russia lacking proper sniper rifles?




    After watching that video, it is very apparent, that Russia is lacking proper sniper rifles and it is behind the US in sniper rifles.

    The experience in Syria will really help Russian engineers build the correct sniper rifles, Russia has the know how to build very good sniper rifles, Lobaev arms proves this.

    How so? Please explain.

    I'll start - Dragunov is still used widely and very popular due to it's well roundedness. US is constantly trying to field a new sniper.

    T-5000 is becoming rather very popular world wide due to it's quality. It's rather better than most other bolt action rifle. Except the price. It's very expensive.

    Don't bother with SV-98, they are not really being fielded at all.

    You don't need dozens of different sniper rifles. Instead, having the few you need is that is. Except that the 12.7MM rifles seem to rather taken a back seat. Hopefully they change that with new development.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:17 pm