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    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

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    miketheterrible

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    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:26 pm

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/14/russia-launch-government-tests-17-amb-17-rifles-2018/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

    Russia to Launch Government Tests of AM-17 and AMB-17 Rifles in 2018



    Video of the rifle
    https://kalashnikov.media/media/videolibrary/4516418


    In one of its recent news releases, Kalashnikov Concern has announced that the Russian government will start testing the new AM-17 and AMB-17 compact assault rifles in 2018. Several Russian special service agencies including the Federal Protective Service (FSO) and Federal Security Service (FSB) as well as the Russian National Guard have expressed a high interest in these two firearms.

    Once the tests are finished, the Kalashnikov Concern will start mass production of both rifles. The AM-17 will most likely replace the AKS-74U (a.k.a Krinkov). Dimensions wise the AM-17 is comparable to the AKS-74U. It has an advantage of being slightly lighter weight – 2.5 kg compared to 2.7 kg of Krinkov. BCGs of these rifles ride on a top chassis allowing them to have most of the receiver parts made of polymer material thus making them lighter. This layout was pioneered by Yevgeny Dragunov in his MA compact rifle design which ironically was AKS-74U’s competitor in the trials. The suppressed version (AMB-17) will probably be considered for replacing firearms like AS VAL or VSS Vintorez.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:37 am

    Ground Troops Day@ Patriot,1Oct.Recon company of 27th OGvMSBr.Note:SVDM(6V11),VSSM(6P29M) & ASM(6P30M).©️Vitaly Kuzmin



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    George1

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:23 pm

    Russian SAW: Tokar-2 5.45x39mm Belt Fed Light Machine Gun Showed Off at National Guard Open House 2017 russia

    The elusive Tokar-2 5.45mm belt-fed machine gun made an appearance at the recent Rosgvardia Open House event late last month. The event demonstrated weapons and equipment being used by the Russian National Guard (Rosgvardia), and was open to the public. Russian media outlet Armytex posted pictures of the event to their page on the social media site VK.com, including photos of the Tokar-2:


    The Tokar-2 firing fully automatically from a standard AK-74 pattern magazine.


    Tokar-2 light machine gun firing fully automatically from a non-disintegrating belt.

    The Tokar-2 is a belt-fed small caliber (5.45mm) light machine gun developed at the request of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD). Originally called “Kord-5.45”, the new machine gun is being procured for the VV Internal Troops, which were the special operations forces of the Ministry until 2016, when they were reorganized under the new National Guard of Russia. It’s not clear how the reorganization has affected the development of the Tokar-2, although – as evidenced by the photos – the program apparently still continues. Although Kalashnikov Concern seems to have produced a weapon for this solicitation, the weapon in the photos is evidently Degtyarev’s design.

    Technically, the Tokar-2 is a very similar weapon to the Western Minimi (in US service called the M249 SAW/LMG). Like the Minimi, it is belt-fed, with an alternate magazine-feed system; however the belt links for the Tokar-2 are non-disintegrating similar to the Russian PKM machine gun. The weapon in the photos at Rosgvardia Open House is equipped with what appears to be a detachable combination moderator/flash hider, as well.

    With the development of the Kalashnikov 96-round drum for the new RPK-16, it is unclear whether the heavier, more complex, and harder to operate Tokar-2 offers any substantial improvement over more conventional magazine-fed weapons. With the USMC and possibly even US Army moving away from belt-fed 5.56mm weapons, it seems plausible that the Russian National Guard may also choose a simpler weapon like the RPK-16 to fill the role, instead of the more-expensive Tokar-2. However, that remains to be seen.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/16/russian-saw-tokar-2-5-45x39mm-belt-fed-light-machine-gun-showed-off-national-guard-open-house-2017/

    https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2057324.html


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:36 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian SAW: Tokar-2 5.45x39mm Belt Fed Light Machine Gun Showed Off at National Guard Open House 2017  russia

    The elusive Tokar-2 5.45mm belt-fed machine gun made an appearance at the recent Rosgvardia Open House event late last month.

    Tokaryev is Tula, Tula's governor is Dyumin. They will buy this gun, thy will buy Smile

    BTW 6x49mm died for good and Russians will return to 7,62x54 ?
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:42 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russian SAW: Tokar-2 5.45x39mm Belt Fed Light Machine Gun Showed Off at National Guard Open House 2017  russia

    The elusive Tokar-2 5.45mm belt-fed machine gun made an appearance at the recent Rosgvardia Open House event late last month.

    Tokaryev is Tula, Tula's governor is Dyumin. They will buy this gun,  thy will buy Smile

    BTW 6x49mm died for good and Russians will return to 7,62x54 ?

    It does make sense for Russia to procure different types of small arms, competing ones as well - for its different service branches.

    They can have Tokars for the National Guard, RPK-16s for the army, maybe something else for the VDV/Marines and the SSO and other Spetsnaz will just pick whatever they want including foreign weapons; if those are the best for the job.

    Then in terms of pistols - the police can favour one type, the military another, the national guard another one and the special forces and FSO just whatever works best.

    They all use common ammo types already in service, and parts for small arms are not exactly an issue. Even if a weapon requires its own special calibre; it's still not an issue if it's just confined to a narrow field.

    So why not pick whatever model fits the requirements of the state organ/srvice branch/organization best - and then these weapons can be trialed and used in parallel, various arms makers get orders, and afterwards notes can be compared as to which ones work better under what conditions in practice

    Older models such as RPK-74s/RPK-74Ms can be given away to Russian allies of limited means such as the DNR/LNR, Abkhazia, S. Ossetia, Transdniestr or Syria.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:50 pm

    With the USMC and possibly even US Army moving away from belt-fed 5.56mm weapons, it seems plausible that the Russian National Guard may also choose a simpler weapon like the RPK-16 to fill the role, instead of the more-expensive Tokar-2. However, that remains to be seen.

    WTF does the USMC choice in weapons have to do with Russian weapon procurement?

    The US might have adopted a light machine gun that could feed from belts or magazines... the Soviets did that in 1946 with the RP46 and they didn't keep it.

    It was replaced by the RPD belt fed only weapon and then the RPK family of box feed weapons.

    BTW 6x49mm died for good and Russians will return to 7,62x54 ?

    I hope the reason we have not seen 6x49mm calibre weapons is because they are working on something even better to replace the old cartridge.

    Caseless or plastic cased?

    Eventually I suspect the Army will get a family of weapons with some parts interchangable and related, but that might be some time away...

    Would love to see them standardise on the 9x21mm round and drop the 9x18 and 9x19 rounds they currently use.


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    George1

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:04 am

    AN-94 with Picatinny rail, Dedal-NV collimator type sight, bi-pod and mounted sound suppressor. Image via Moskit at Otvaga2004



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    George1

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:48 pm

    Modernized assault rifle ASM Val 6P30M







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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:30 am

    Nice, but the only obvious changes from the original AS are the picatinny mounts on the top and front handguard and the 30 round magazine instead of the 20 round mag...


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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:24 am

    GarryB wrote:Nice, but the only obvious changes from the original AS are the picatinny mounts on the top and front handguard and the 30 round magazine instead of the 20 round mag...

    Yep. I think they've just dolled it up a bit to correspond to current tastes...definately looks better aesthetically
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:58 am

    In which case I would prefer the SR-3Ms as just looking a bit cooler.

    Actually it is amusing but the main criticism of the AKS-74U is that its short barrel means the 5.45mm round is not as accurate as in longer barrel versions like the AK-74 and other longer barrel models (even the carbine AK-105).

    A 9 x 39mm round does not need a long barrel for accuracy and neither does the 7.62 x 39mm round so a short barrel carbine in either of those two calibres should be the best option for a very short barrel carbine design.


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