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    State Armament Program 2018-2027

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    Vote (multiple choice allowed) for the type of material that in your opinion will remain in the Russian Armed Forces after the end of 2025, and leave without vote the material that will be totally out of the Russian Armed Forces, including of the reserve:

    [ 5 ]
    6% [6%] 
    [ 7 ]
    9% [9%] 
    [ 7 ]
    9% [9%] 
    [ 9 ]
    12% [12%] 
    [ 9 ]
    12% [12%] 
    [ 3 ]
    4% [4%] 
    [ 10 ]
    13% [13%] 
    [ 5 ]
    6% [6%] 
    [ 6 ]
    8% [8%] 
    [ 17 ]
    21% [21%] 

    Total Votes: 78

    marcellogo

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  marcellogo on Wed May 16, 2018 1:27 am

    [quote="marcellogo"]
    dino00 wrote:Is the Mig 41 going forward or didnt make SAP 2018-2027?

    Given that even the production Su-57 with objekt 30 would commence in the (very beginning of) SAP 2021-2030, just not.

    But there is not anything worrisome in that as to have anything new inserted in the SAP 2018-2027 you would need to have it ready for serial production in year 2020 at last, otherwise its production  will fall into SAP 2021-2030.
    Damage was already done/absorbed by the slipping the SAP beginning from 2016 to 2018, production of the item comprised in SAP  2011-2020 is the more the less on schedule (almost for what the air force is concerned), so the final result would be to have the SAP 2018-2027 quite empty with many of the projects it would have envisaged before the Ukraina crisis skipped in the 2021-2030 one.
    In practical terms the levels (of available military hardware) that should have been reached in 2025 would be shifted to 2027 but almost all that would have been produced for 2030 would be on schedule on that date.

    Austin

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  Austin on Wed May 16, 2018 7:52 am

    Russia’s New State Armament Programme Implications for the Russian Armed Forces and Military Capabilities to 2027

    https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2018-05-10-russia-state-armament-programme-connolly-boulegue.pdf
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    eehnie

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  eehnie on Wed May 16, 2018 9:46 am

    marcellogo wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Is the Mig 41 going forward or didnt make SAP 2018-2027?

    Given that even the production Su-57 with objekt 30 would commence in the (very beginning of) SAP 2021-2030, just not.

    But there is not anything worrisome in that as to have anything new inserted in the SAP 2018-2027 you would need to have it ready for serial production in year 2020 at last, otherwise its production  will fall into SAP 2021-2030.
    Damage was already done/absorbed in the slipping the SAP beginning from 2015 to 2017, production of the item comprised in SAP  2011-2020 is the more the less on schedule, so the final result would be to have the SAP 2017-2028 quite empty with many of the projects it would have envisaged before the Ukraina crisis skipped in the 2021-2030 one.
    In practical terms the levels (of available military hardware) that should have been reached in 2025 would be shifted to 2027 but almost all that would have been produced for 2030 would be on schedule on that date.

    Not sure of what you mean but to include the MiG-41 in the State Armamet Program 2018-2027 is necessary to continue its development. First fly by 2025 is realistic. And serial production by the end of the 2020s too. But for it, the development of the project must continue and this only can be done with the project included in the State Armament Program 2018-2027. And there is not doubt  that the development will continue under the State Armament Program 2018-2027.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201712201159-ipn8.htm
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftvzvezda.ru%2Fnews%2Fopk%2Fcontent%2F201712201159-ipn8.htm

    The Russian interceptor MiG-41 will become the fastest fighter in the world
    Vadim Kolesnikov 12:04 12/12/2017
    The head of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security, Viktor Bondarev, said that the new long-range intercept aircraft complex will be represented.
    Российский перехватчик МиГ-41 станет самым быстрым истребителем в мире
    Photo: Alexey Ivanov / TRK Zvezda
    The MiG-41, a long-range long-range intercept aircraft complex - PAC DP, will be the fastest fighter in the world and will be able to deal with hypersonic missiles, Senator Viktor Bondarev told Interfax.

    "It is assumed that the MiG-41 will be the fastest in the world, the most invisible for radars. It will be able to withstand not only standard low-maneuverable threats like cruise missiles, bombers, drones, but also threats from hypersonic missiles, "said the former commander of the Russian Air Force.

    According to him, the range of PAK DP is laid in the range from 700 to 1500 kilometers. The armament will be the R-37 air-to-air missile, as well as the next-generation missiles.

    "The MiG-41 is under development. About his admission to the troops to speak prematurely, but most likely it will not be until 2025, "added Bondarev.

    It is assumed that the MiG-41 should replace the MiG-31 interceptor, whose service life expires in 2028.

    Recall, in mid-December, the general designer of the United Aircraft Corporation Sergei Korotkov said that the work on the establishment of PAK DP may begin as early as next year.

    At the moment there is a process of discussing the technical assignment for the aircraft between the developer of RAC "MiG" and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. It is not excluded that the future interceptor will be able to perform tasks in near space . ■

    Viktor Nikolaevich Bondarev
    (Russian: Виктор Николаевич Бондарев; born December 7, 1959, in Voronezh, USSR) is a Colonel General[1] and former Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces (1 August 2015 - 26 September 2017)


    Last edited by eehnie on Wed May 16, 2018 3:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed May 16, 2018 3:21 pm

    Mig-41 did not make the 18-27 SAP,

    No official confirmation has ever been seen, Ilya Tarasenko said who is mig head, said the first unit would be produced in 2025.

    However this guy doesn't speak for the Government, I have not seen any official Russian Defense official said the Mig-41 is happening in that time frame, so as of now, the answer is no.

    Perhaps that may change in the future but that isn't the case now.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed May 16, 2018 3:27 pm

    It's mostly a private initiative. Currently, a replacement isn't much needed as MiG-31's still have life in them. Initial R&D is happening but we won't see or hear much till we get closer to 2030. My guess. By then, various technologies in Russia would have matured, new materials and ultimately new visions. They may skip it and just use an improved Su-57 variant in the future. Or maybe they will use a drone concept?

    I would say, for sake of Mikoyan and the fact that the MiG-31 is a solid jet, is to build a new variant, using a lot of new technologies from today - new radar, modernized engines, more composites, etc etc. But all is acessments right now.
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    eehnie

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  eehnie on Wed May 16, 2018 3:49 pm

    I edited my previous message to include the content of the link posted, and a reference about Viktor Bondarev. The article is of December 2017. Also there is other article of April 2018 in the same line.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t3335p175-mig-41-new-interceptor#225356
    https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/aviaciya/mig-41/
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmilitaryarms.ru%2Fvoennaya-texnika%2Faviaciya%2Fmig-41%2F

    ...
    05/04/2018
    ...
    Earlier this year, Vice President of the Russian United Aircraft Corporation Sergei Korotkov told reporters that work on the creation of a new MiG-41 fighter was continuing.  According to him, this will be a new generation machine that will replace the MiG-31 high-altitude fighter interceptor developed in the mid-1970s.  Also Korotkov said that in the creation of a new car, not only designers OKB im.  Mikoyan, but also representatives of other enterprises of the national defense industry.

    Developments are carried out in accordance with the assignment that was prepared by the Russian Ministry of Defense, that is, no work is initiated on initiative (and it has often happened in the past) it is not. The military really needs a new aircraft to replace the deserved MiG-31. No additional information, which at least slightly opened the veil of secrecy over the prospective fighter, the official did not tell reporters.

    The traslation is not very good, but is clear enough.
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    LMFS

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  LMFS on Wed May 16, 2018 10:10 pm

    Link to a research paper on GPV 2027:

    Russia’s New State Armament Programme
    Implications for the Russian Armed Forces and Military Capabilities to 2027

    https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2018-05-10-russia-state-armament-programme-connolly-boulegue.pdf

    Posted by user Austin in Keypub forum, don't know if it is the same Austin posting here also...
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed May 16, 2018 11:15 pm

    It's same Austin. He also posted same thing here already. It's from a British organization. So don't have any faith in it.
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    LMFS

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  LMFS on Wed May 16, 2018 11:33 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:It's same Austin. He also posted same thing here already. It's from a British organization. So don't have any faith in it.
    Ok, thanks!
    I would prefer Russian sources but the language is a BIG limitation finding and understanding them properly. Will take what makes sense from the paper and that's it
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 17, 2018 5:22 am

    Its speculations as foreign entities, especially those who are hostile to Russia, wont provide either a full picture or they do not have access to sensitive info.
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    George1

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  George1 on Thu May 17, 2018 7:54 am

    Vladimir Putin discussed the problems of rearmament of the Navy

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3201649.html
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    ZoA

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  ZoA on Sat May 19, 2018 8:08 pm

    George1 wrote:Vladimir Putin discussed the problems of rearmament of the Navy

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3201649.html

    Frankly i dont know what is there to talk about. This is the issue for FSB that should be rounding up management of shipyards and subcontractors for some badly needed interrogations.

    In fact this entire shit show of sabotage and wrecking that is Russian shipbuilding industry remands me of this:
    https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/ezhov080439eng.html
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    eehnie

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  eehnie on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:55 pm

    The comment opening the topic has been updated to inclued a more complete preview about the likely decommissions, taking into account the likely needs of the allies of Russia.
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    franco

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:45 am

    Interview with Pukhov concerning the State Arms Program for 2018-2027.


    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3257269.html

    In case you missed it, former Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin appointed head of Roskosmos, and ex-Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov became vice-premier in charge of the "defense industry."
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:30 am

    Pessimistic it seems.  Mostly makes comments that makes no sense about exchange rate of Ruble compared to USD thus dropping the GPV 2020 by half with new one.  How does that make any sense? I am surprised someone in such a position has absolutely no idea about the economic aspect of it all.  Procurement is in rubles, not USD.  That also doesnt mean that Su-35 increased by double.

    I think with such stupid comment, guy should be fired or forced to take a basics in economics.  Fucking idiot.

    Inflation was 16% at worst, so in theory, cost for military equipment would have gone up by a portion of that 16%.  Not double.

    This must be all about deception.  Unless this guy truly believes such nonsense. And if he is correct, then either 100% of the equipment made in Russia is imported or their own manufacturers are fucking them horribly.

    Edit: After reading it through a couple more times, he doesn't mention anything about cost of systems. Just that due to inflation the GPV is reduced compared to before even if both are 20T Rubles, and that value of it dropped by half. Which is still wrong in the sense since everything is priced in Rubles, but because internationally it is compared in USD, I guess I can see what he is saying.

    But he seems to be very pessimistic of Ilyushin, shipbuilding industry. But has hopes for airforce and army overall.
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    franco

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:29 am

    It does explain some of the slow developments... obviously not all due to Ukraine.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:10 am

    not really no.

    Exactly how does it explain? I would like to know if they import everything or not? If not, then how come exchange rates matter?

    I think honestly? This guy is talking bollocks. All he said was "there are some problems due to issue with production facilities.

    That doesn't say fuck all.
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    LMFS

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  LMFS on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:19 am

    @franco: great interview, thanks!

    @miketheterrible: I am not sure he is meaning it that way. If you take inflation rates of RF from 2011 till today you have a huge devaluation of value in constant rubles. Considering an average inflation of 7,5%, 20 trillion of 2018 would be 12 trillion of 2011. So almost half the value. But in any case I would not take it too literally.


    source: tradingeconomics.com

    I am surprised by how candidly some questions were answered  Shocked

    Among sovereign countries there are very poor, for example, Cuba or North Korea. And among the states that do not have sovereignty, there are very rich countries like Germany or Japan

    The relationship between the customer and the executor, between the Ministry of Defense and the defense industry, at the time of his appointment to the post in 2012 was to the extreme extent of a conflict. They spoke different languages. Moreover, it was the relationship of two different and hostile worlds.

    Those freed up as a result of the renunciation of naval gigantomania and projections should be invested in control, reconnaissance and communication systems, drones and new armored platforms. By the way, land travelers and paratroopers will have to solve the problem with the Kiev junta or the Baltic Nazis if they rely on NATO and want to check our defense

    There is, I repeat, a serious lag in Russia in the field of unmanned aircraft. In fact, here we are lagging behind the US for about 25 years, while at the stage of creating long-range medium-altitude unmanned aircraft class Predator.
    Seriously roasting Il and shipbuilding industry:
    The big question is whether the structure, which is supposed to entrust the restoration of the production of the An-124, is able to do this. Let's look at the success of the Ilyushinsky firm over the past ten years. The contract for the supply of 38 military transport aircraft to China is broken. The delivery of two Il-76MFs to Jordan was made with a significant delay from the schedule. The Il-214 / MTA project is a failure. The program to restore the production of IL-76 came out of all possible schedules and estimates. The only aircraft in the test operation shows very low operational reliability. There are very strong concerns about the success of developing the IL-112V. If the company has not been able to restore its IL-76 production for ten years, what are the chances for the success of the recovery of the more complex and foreign AN-124, for which there is also no engine?

    ...But the construction of the main classes of surface ships is in constant crisis. And this I'm talking about ships of relatively small displacement - a class of corvette-frigate. It's terrible to think about what means will be required and how long it will take to build the "monster-shaped" destroyers "Leader" or the giant aircraft carrier "Storm".

    A tendency to promote technologies convenient for power projection getting clearer by the day:
    The military operation confirmed other obvious shortcomings. First of all in the field of reconnaissance and target designation. For example, the lack of long-range unmanned aircraft. It is necessary to quickly adopt long-range unmanned vehicles and the duration of the flight, including reconnaissance and strike operations, improve the capabilities of aerial and space reconnaissance, and saturate Russia's high-precision guided weapons.

    Navy should not expect their big dreams to come true short term:
    In the new LG, it seems that excessive lean towards spending on the Navy has been eliminated, and the construction of the most expensive large surface ships is wisely transferred to the future. The frigates will remain the largest under construction ships.

    But I liked this one the most:
    But for sovereignty it is necessary to pay, sovereignty is expensive.

    So to summarize we should expect:

    > Frigates and submarines to the navy
    > Refill with modernized planes for the air force, no PAK-DA until 2030-35. S-500 and long range missiles for S-400
    > Armatas & co. to the army. New command and control systems.
    > Sarmat, Avangard, Rubezh, hypersonic weapons and cruise missiles
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:22 am

    Standard inflation doesn't affect mic of Russia as it would to US simply because it's state run institutes. Their profit margin is very low. Hence why each Su-35 costs Russia 60B Rubles for 50 of them.

    MiC also makes compromises.
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    franco

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:37 pm

    Shoigu told about the rearmament of the troops

    On Friday, during the Single Day of Accepting Military Goods, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu reported, that for the second quarter of 2018, the Russian military-industrial complex put more than 600 new military and special equipment units in the army.

    In particular, according to him, 11 planes of different class, 5 helicopters (Mi-8MTV-5, delivered ahead of schedule), 36 radars of different modifications and three ships, including the reconnaissance ship Ivan Hurs and the Vyshniy Volochek .

    In addition, the units routinely received automobile and engineering equipment, aviation armament, ammunition and communications.

    The Minister noted that most modern weapons will be shown at the International Forum "Army-2018", where everyone can get acquainted with their technical and combat capabilities.

    As for capital construction, in the first half of the year 1281 buildings and structures were commissioned, which is twice as much as in the same period of 2017.

    In turn, the director of the Kazan Helicopter Plant, Yuri Pustovgarov, said that the next batch of Mi-8MTV-5-1 has already passed all the tests stipulated by the contract and is ready for transfer to the military department. He noted that these machines installed a new system of creating passive jamming, as well as places for the installation of airborne defense complexes.

    It is also reported that the specialists of PJSC "VASO" and PJSC "IL" started working off the on-board systems of the first prototype Il-112V aircraft. Upon completion of these works, the aircraft will be handed over for "terrestrial frequency tests and a cycle of aerodrome excavations".

    EDIT: more details https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12186822@egNews
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    franco

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:47 pm

    Supplies of equipment and weapons in the second quarter of 2018

    Land forces and Airborne Forces received:

    - 62 new and 70 repaired armored vehicles and equipment;

    - 537 new and 214 vehicles that have been repaired;

    - 937 units of communication equipment;

    - 218 missiles to surface-to-air missile systems;

    - 22 anti-tank missile systems "Shturm-S" that were repaired;

    - more than 3,000 units of parachute landing aids;

    The aerospace forces received:

    - 11 new and 21 refurbished aircraft;

    - 5 new and 19 repaired helicopters;

    - 1 repaired air defense complex S-300;

    - 36 new and 9 modernized radar stations;

    - more than 30 thousand aircraft means of destruction;

    The Navy received:

    - 3 new and 1 repaired battleship;

    - 2 supply vessels;

    - Coastal missile system "Bastion";

    - 49 cruise missiles of operational-tactical designation "Caliber" and 4 anti-ship missiles;

    Strategic Missile Forces received:

    - 7 intercontinental ballistic missiles;

    - 4 stand-alone launchers;

    - 17 machines providing combat duty.

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    Re: State Armament Program 2018-2027

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