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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:57 am

    Trumps' main goal in Ukraine as of now is to expose Joe Bidens' and their families shady businesses, including the firing of the prosecutor who was investigating Joe's son.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:05 am

    All the details coming from the Gas negotiations with Ukraine read like rape - considering all that has happened.

    But it's to be expected of Russian deal-making. Americans don't even have to be involved in the room to get the Russians to bend over - European sweet talk is the magic grease. Ohh well. I'll love the spin.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:58 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:All the details coming from the Gas negotiations with Ukraine read like rape - considering all that has happened.

    But it's to be expected of Russian deal-making. Americans don't even have to be involved in the room to get the Russians to bend over - European sweet talk is the magic grease. Ohh well. I'll love the spin.
    What are you even going about? Stop hyperventilating before you pass out. No contracts signed, no legal biding, no gas for Ukraine. Promises don't mean shit in Europolitik remember the promises about no eastern expansion of NATO or ABM's are only for Iran? Besides, the EU basically killed any leverage of getting to a renewed contract with Ukraine by curtailing Nord Stream 2 to 50% capacity. Because the Euroshits set obstacles elsewhere they made it clear not to negotiate with them on normalized terms.
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    Post  kvs on Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:33 pm

    NATO and Ukraine are so squeaky clean. Russia so corrupt.

    Projective delusional "logic" of the west. It is no wonder that western invaders always have their asses handed to them on a plate.
    Too much arrogant imbecility, too little informed IQ.

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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:02 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:So it begins...

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 40 SSBfy3FZ?format=jpg&name=800x419


    Biden is finished, it will be either Warren or Sanders

    Basically Dems are going full communists thanks to Hilldog stirring up shit because she lost

    It's hilarious lol1



    Poll: Elizabeth Warren Takes Commanding Lead in California, Biden Drops to Third

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/23/poll-elizabeth-warren-takes-commanding-lead-in-california-biden-drops-to-third/

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:21 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:So it begins...

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 40 SSBfy3FZ?format=jpg&name=800x419


    Biden is finished, it will be either Warren or Sanders

    Basically Dems are going full communists thanks to Hilldog stirring up shit because she lost

    It's hilarious  lol1



    Poll: Elizabeth Warren Takes Commanding Lead in California, Biden Drops to Third

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/23/poll-elizabeth-warren-takes-commanding-lead-in-california-biden-drops-to-third/

    The Democrats are really desperate, in their panic they're trying to organize an impeachment process over the withholding of Ukraine aid as a basis. As far as nepotism and corruption goes, this is a literal open-and-shut case against Biden. From hear Trump could coerce Zelensky (of which Orange man is withholding military aid) to publicly address this scandal and have an international arrest warrant for Biden's son. The sacked Ukrainian prosecutor could be brought in as an expert witness and drag this on for more than a year (if Joe Dirt is still leading the polls). Unlike the fake Russiagate scandal, this has legs, even video footage of Joe Bidden bragging about it:




    ....There's also another aspect, Joe Biden's son was in the Donbass. He was trying to buy discount coal and natural resources from the DNR/LPR, but he was rebuked by them and sent packing. If video footage surfaces of those meetings, Joe Biden's presidential run is absolutely finished!
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:27 pm

    It may not be the only scandal around Joe's son (Hunter Biden). Apparently he (Hunter) crashed a rental car, while on Meth:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 40 R3NSRp
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:34 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:It may not be the only scandal around Joe's son (Hunter Biden). Apparently he (Hunter) crashed a rental car, while on Meth...

    He is millionaire and he smokes meth?

    He could have at least went for cocaine if he wanted to get high, not like he couldn't afford it

    I guess you can take white trash out of trailer park but you can't take the trailer park out of white trash... No

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:21 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:It may not be the only scandal around Joe's son (Hunter Biden). Apparently he (Hunter) crashed a rental car, while on Meth...

    He is millionaire and he smokes meth?

    He could have at least went for cocaine if he wanted to get high, not like he couldn't afford it

    I guess you can take white trash out of trailer park but you can't take the trailer park out of white trash...  No

    Hunter Biden was also kicked out of the US Navy because he tested positive for cocaine.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:49 pm

    Neither Warren nor Sanders are communists. Not any more than any of the self proclaimed democratic socialists that have run the EU for decades. Equating their policies that intend to try to rein in the corruption and theft within the U.S in the private for profit Universities, Health Care and Wallstreet to communism is ignorance at its best. The issues in these sectors are unique more or less to the U.S - in the degree to which the rape, corruption and graft is allowed. Whatever policies they're able to implement, IF elected, BIG IF, it will be to rein in and bring those sectors more in line with EU countries in some ways.... has nothing to do with USSR central planning. That's is of course, if the machine doesn't run through them, and there are billions upon billions of dollars ready to do just that.

    Biden never had a chance against Trump, with or without a scandal. He's the plug-in establishment candidate of the Democratic party to make sure candidates like Sanders or Warren in a Sanders/Warren ticket do not get the party nomination - and they're failing at that (A re-run of the GOP in 2016). The Democratic party prefers to lose to Trump (guaranteed with Biden) than allow a candidate with a shot that could shake not only the direction of the Democratic party forever, but if placed into office, major economic sectors of the country. Trillions of dollars are at risk in a shake up... that's a lot of pockets with vested interest who they've declared war on. The Party nomination is the 2nd line of defense - after media smearing/congressional election opponents fail to take them out. The 3rd line of defense is the Trump treatment once he got into office - obstruction by the uniparty, scandals etc to try to box the candidate in on key issues and derail their campaign agenda (Bureaucratic stranglehold/personal sabotage). The 4th is impeachment if the 3rd fails. If the 4th is unable to be exercised or fails then the 5th - death/elimination. Trump is at stage 3 with varied degrees of success in a give and take with the threat of 4th floated in.

    As for Ukraine... we've gone from cutting the feed/supply once NordStream II comes online - as all the chest beating Russia str0nk fanboys were sure would happen (or wanted - and who could not sympathize after all that has happened?), to now an almost guaranteed deal (aka a lifeline to the nazis/U.S/Poland agenda in Ukraine). Merkel can still squeeze Putin - clearly. 10 year deal floated by the EU mediators with Ukrainian agreement (how kind of them). Russia offering 25% discount on what they pay now... etc.... willing to extend the supply momentarily if no agreements after current deal expires etc.

    One thing is constant - a deal with be made. And it will be made because Russia fears NordStream II getting fucked if they cross the Germans on the agreement to supply Ukraine with Gas as a condition - that has become crystal clear. And no one in Russia's elite circles is willing to give NordStream II up because Putin failed to make a concession on Ukraine. The elites will bend Putin over twice on Sundays - which is why Putin has said several times, he's open to the deal, insinuating to such or saying to the effect. Saying fuck you to the EU because of such a pre-condition in such a case will leave Russia at the mercy of China and other Asian markets and leave lots of billions on the table. Not to mention give a free gift to U.S suppliers - which the Americans can, unlike Russia, actually leverage geopolitically right now (for the Americans have the tools, and willingness).

    Thus that's NO-NO for the Russian elite, obvious to any observer. Politics come second, as does national security. Although there is a grey area where the two intersect and one could make a case that it's smart policy to concede on Ukraine for the greater hold of the EU market. Still, the bottom-line is that Ukraine is an irritant and is holding Russia hostage in many respects. In that regard, the Americans fvcking Ukraine continue to play geopolitical dividends. A forward thinking shot at its rival.

    The fact is Russia is a supplier of cocaine in (currently) a buyers market (and you would think something like Gas would be just the opposite). Russia has a long ways to go in turning their cocaine business, a sellers market. Wherein they dictate as they please, and squeeze the Europeans in geopolitical fights. It's currently the other way around more or less. The U.S, Poland, and Merkel have made sure of that. Who's to blame for the current predicament?? well... the list is infinite. Decades of getting outplayed in the geopolitical chessboard lands you in this disadvantaged environment. Lack of foresight, poor strategic planning, political will, smarts etc.... it's not a Putin issue solely per say... but a bunched up carryover. He's doing better than his predecessors in some respects but Ukraine is his BABY. Allowing the Orange Revolution and then the Maiden after the Orange Revolution.....that however, is inexcusable and completely on him. And it wasn't a surprise. It was a complete foreign policy failure. Outsmarted, outplayed.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:44 am

    Russia should cancel Nord Stream II and just pump gas to Turkey using the two South Stream pipes... if that does not meet Europes needs then they can pay more for LNG... whether from Russia or the US... who cares... the financial cost of paying three or four times more for energy, plus the added bonus of potential for delays in delivery should make Russian industry rather more competitive with Europe, and with liquification Russia can pretty much deliver their product anywhere they want without worrying about ownership of pipes or other such BS.

    The Ukraine might want to improve its relationship with Russia, but it needs to make the first move because they initiated the split... it should not be concessions by Russia that start the mending of relations...
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:33 am

    A clip to make you smile re the current 'Trump is bad' crap going on in the US re Ukraine.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TrollasaurusRx/status/1176678282739245057
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    Post  flamming_python on Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:46 am

    GarryB wrote:Russia should cancel Nord Stream II and just pump gas to Turkey using the two South Stream pipes... if that does not meet Europes needs then they can pay more for LNG... whether from Russia or the US... who cares... the financial cost of paying three or four times more for energy, plus the added bonus of potential for delays in delivery should make Russian industry rather more competitive with Europe, and with liquification Russia can pretty much deliver their product anywhere they want without worrying about ownership of pipes or other such BS.

    The Ukraine might want to improve its relationship with Russia, but it needs to make the first move because they initiated the split... it should not be concessions by Russia that start the mending of relations...

    Putin won't go for that.

    He's already made clear that he will accept every concession that the Europeans demand. The latest seemingly being to only use half of Nord Steam II's capacity, as the connecting pipeline on land would be limited to that.

    And only Putin alone knows what's the right course for the country, and everyone else must keep in line.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:30 pm

    Well, without knowing what he has planned it is difficult to judge...

    At the end of the day actually cutting the Ukraine off from all gas transit and supply might be very satisfying and in many ways justice for all the years of bullshit it has caused... where ukrainian criminal action is blamed on russia.

    But at the end of the day the Ukraine is not going anywhere, and if they can actually improve relations and create some good will, then selling them some gas for a reasonable price is only a rather small cost for better relations with a country that cannot move away, so you are stuck with them through thick or thin.

    Personally I would tell the EU as a collective organisation to go fuck itself, and that its sanctions on Russia are blatant hypocrisy, and that normal relations are not possible until they are all removed.

    I would also leave PACE and all the european institutions until they can become more impartial and fair... and honestly less political.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:00 pm

    Allowing some gas through Ukraine, at least for a while, is a very good move as far as Russia's customers in central/south Europe are concerned. The EU is very much in favour primarily due to pressure from those countries.

    The north to south pipeline capacity from the NordStreams is very limited and the south to north capacity from TurkStream is not yet in place. Also Ukraine itself needs gas.

    Bear in mind the very rarely mentioned oil pipeline through Ukraine. Russia's only such pipeline heading West, without which it would have to use tankers, lots of them. So a pretty vital strategic asset.

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:01 am

    Personally I have trouble blaming the Ukraine for the shit that has happened... after all it is the US and the EU that created this situation with their colour revolutions to break countries that don't conform to their liberal western way of thinking...

    If Russia has to send gas or oil to Europe by tanker then they can do that... it means they will need a fleet of tankers but once they have those tankers then they can deliver their product anywhere around the world which is actually good for Russia.

    It will also mean the EU is spending more for energy which is good for Russia too because they are not really very friendly and actually a serious rival in many situations and cases, so making their economy suffer is probably just rewards for all the bullshit they have been trying to impose on Russia.

    There are plenty of people in the Ukraine who didn't actively support the anti Russia hysteria that the west and the US tried to amplify as much as they could, so while they didn't defend Russia, they are not really the targets of the problems between these neighbours... selling them gas or oil is just a customer seller relationship... Russia actively fights the terrorists Saudi Arabia and America supports in Syria, but Russia still sells Be-200 fire fighting aircraft to the US and offers to sell all sorts of things to Saudi Arabia.

    Obviously with the Ukraine being a neighbour it would be better to have much better relations, but they need to be clear that the problem was created by the west and not by Russia.

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