Again missile shot it down from the front it hit MH17 dead on. the only way the SU-25 could have done that was if it was at the same height and fired from the front, Russia at that time claimed. It attacked from the rear, they dropped this story and changed it. Don't try and argue this you are looking silly. The story was a lie.
Funny, you are an expert in BUK medium range SAMs but clearly don't know shit about Air to Air missiles.
The R-60MK is not a tail chaser, it tries to lead the target.... in laymens terms it tries to fly towards where the aircraft will be instead of where the aircraft currently is.
Flying towards where a target currently is means a tail chaser that hits the target up the tail pipe. AA-2s did that and tended to hit the targets tail pipe... which made them rather less effective. Newer missiles like the R-60MK had an algorythm to lead the target and intercept it instead of just tail chase it... of course that is only possible with the R-60M and later models with all aspect homing capacity that might have homed in on the sun glinting off the cockpit transparency.
The missile could have been fired from 4-5km below the altitude of the airliner BTW...
With new information we know it was hit by a much more powerful missile, but the suggestion that a Ukrainian pilot might have shot the plane down in error or on purpose is not as silly as you are suggesting... if you want silly try the Russians driving a missile from their territory into rebel held area to shoot down a plane of no importance to Russia at all and then drive back to Russia without any actual evidence of it ever happening... but also managing to source a local BUK missile while in rebel held territory for the shot... that is silly.
For fucks sake, this is why I find talking to you a chore. Did I say the Russian army deployed mass forces in Ukraine, no I didn't STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I said they have advisors which THEY DO. advisors don't mean front line, shock troops.
Of course, invisible advisors with a direct phone link to Putins office that no one has seen or captured... they move freely on moonless nights.... called Chimera...
or more accurately bullshit...
Why do these Ukrainians need Russian advisors? The Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, it had conscription... most of the local men were army trained... but they could only have Russian advisors to save them... Now if Auslander decided to go and assist could we say that the US military is also supporting the Rebels?
What a headline that would be... imagine the CNN or BBC reporters talking to their man on the ground about the situation and the American accent is right but the things he is saying just seem not right.... is he on the same side as Kiev? What do you mean no, you don't support those f'ing Nazis... but but but... we have to go to a commercial break right now...
First off a BUK isn't a hard system to use. MH17 had no countermeasures was slow, not realizing it was locked. All the rebels had to do was get a lock and hit free that's NOT HARD. Don't try and playoff doing this is some super hard thing, The rebels had more than enough time to learn how to use the BUK. A BUK isn't an S-400, your point here is nothing but desperation.
Oh, dear god... yeah, you just put the engine in neutral, and turn on the radar screen... look there are all the planes in the air space at the moment... oh... that is a big one... lets shoot it down... you are telling me you are through with me?
I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but suggesting anyone can get into a BUK system light it up and open fire and successfully hit an aircraft with it...
Tell me, because the story was that they captured a TEL but it didn't say they captured the entire battery... I could understand them trying to shoot down a Flanker or Frogfoot attacking them, but why a high flying civilian airliner.... and don't try to tell me they didn't know what it was... they are FUCKING EXPERTS. Putin hand picked these guys...
A Russian aircraft in Ukranian airspace, Russia never sent a single jet into Ukraine's Airspace lol! Okay buttercup, get real. Again I explained this to you three times, they thought it was a military cargo plane from Ukraine. Civilian aircraft aren't allowed over active warzones where even the remote risk of AA is.
Buttercup is it? ...OK, the Russian and Ukrainian air traffic controllers continued to cooperate and planes were flying over that area continuously... they only stopped when this plane was shot down... and you have given your own perfect counter example... if Civilian aircraft aren't allowed over active warzones where even the remote risk of AA is then why was this and the hundreds of other aircraft before it diverted into this airspace? sugarplum?
Yes, they do fly at that height, it depends. Why fire now? who knows maybe because they decided to. Go ask the rebels I am not a dam mind reader. Chances are they only had limited shots, Russia wouldn't supply the Rebels with long-range AA missiles. I doubt they would have captured many spares.
You are the one claiming they did it, they said they didn't do it... the burden of proof is on the accuser and those that believe.
Naw buddy you just blinded by your emotions, You just can't accept the truth and are coming up with bogus excuses to defend it. the Rebels downed it, I really don't care if you want to sit there and whine. The facts are facts.
The facts that prove what weapon did this prove the Ukrainian military did it. The evidence on the ground or more precisely proves it was a Ukrainian military BUK model missile... we really don't know what manouvers the missile was performing for the intercept, the angle of the fragments tell us nothing about where the missile came from... in the same way that the last few manouvers of a car tell us where the driver originally came from.
Congratulations Garry it was indeed a Ukrainian missile. I'm slow clapping right now for you in person, in a sarcastic sense. It was a missile the rebels captured from Ukraine. Which I had been saying this entire time, I have no IDEA why you keep trying to tell me "It wasn't a Russian missile but a Ukarian one". You jackass, I never said or claimed it was.
Now I am a jackass. Because you moron, you and the Ukrainians are saying the rebels stole a ukrainian missile... learned to use a BUK air defence missile system and then for no good reason or for reasons very counter to their cause shot down a civilian airliner.
What I am saying is that a much easier explanation is that a Ukrainian BUK battery fired the missile. The rebels would benefit nothing by killing people flying past this war crime of a war. The Ukrainians need attention... they need international attention because they are beggars living off scraps and donations and blaming the rebels for killing some dutch people and some aussies is good for them... it is not like they are not already murdering innocent civilians with air strikes and artillery shells and sniper bullets anyway.
This conversation is done, maybe when you grow up and can look past your bias we can continue but for now, this will go nowhere.
Typical whiny westerner... tens of thousands of people have died in that region over the last half decade and all you give a shit about are less than 300 people on their holidays... you are not interested in what really happened... it was all Putins fault... more sanctions on Russia.
2) The perforations on the cockpit hull pieces is consistent with bullet strafing. If a Buk warhead full of shaped metal
pieces went off in the proximity it would have shredded the hull to the point of falling into pieces. The density of
holes per unit area would have been much higher and would not look like linear 30 mm bullet strafing patterns. The holes
would be essentially randomly distributed. (See earlier in the threads for the image of the MH17 cockpit section).
AFAIK the aircraft did break into several pieces, but the fragments inside the aircraft and the crew show it was a BUK missile.
And it was no accident. You just have to look at the coordinated media campaign launched five seconds after the plane was brought down.
The aircraft was directed by Ukrainian ATC, so they put the plane there themselves... and now the ATC in question is still on holiday...