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    BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

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    Austin

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  Austin on Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:20 am

    Nice Video of Kamaz Triumf

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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:06 am

    Very nice.

    That armour seems pretty interesting.

    With the door open you can see it an outer plate spaced away from the next layer that seems to be quite thick though it might be ceramic rather than conventional metal.

    This might be capable of stopping 50 cal standard ball rounds from 300-500m or so.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:22 pm

    @ 1:27 in the video. The 2 vehicles have different front ends.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:33 am

    Good spotting.

    My guess is that the vehicle with the more pointed nose is better protected... the engine seems to be fitted behind the cab with a door and short tunnel on one side to allow access from the crew cabin to the rear.

    This means the different nose shape can only either be to improve protection, improve aerodynamics, or improve performance in water/fording or swimming.

    Anyone who speaks Russian understand what the guy is saying... perhaps he mentions the differences and the reasons for the differences.
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    medo

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  medo on Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:33 am

    Excellent vehicle this new Kamaz Triumph. It is now more an APC (BTR), than armored truck. I hope similar model of Ural will be on the same level.

    Austin

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:20 pm

    Looking at Typhon Truck underbelly it does not have a V shape blast deflector to protect against mine ? any reason what it was not made so when it is standard these days ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:26 pm

    I would expect that the underneath of the vehicle has been designed to deflect blast waves out sideways away from the vehicle.

    The V shape doesn't need to be obvious like on a South African Buffel... you just need to not have a flat underneath.

    Also most mine explosions occur under the wheels and so the wheel wells generally deflect the blast away from the vehicle anyway.

    People go on about the BTR not having a proper belly design and it not... on paper... being very good at surviving mines, but experience in Afghanistan showed repeatedly that the BTR could roll over a mine and lose a wheel or two and still drive around unscathed. A tracked vehicle on the other hand often lost a track and became immobilised.

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  Austin on Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:42 am

    If not the V shape , they must have figured out a way to deflect blast from the underside of vehical.

    I wanted to know what will be the use of Taifun vehical, will it replace the normal truck that carry troops to frontline or is this some specialised vechical for some specialised task
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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:00 am

    The Russian Army doesn't really use trucks a lot for that... they had plenty of BTRs for that role (on roads... BMPs for cross country or where the extra protection or firepower was required.)

    Teh V shape doesn't need to be clearly obvious to have an effect... it just needs a bottom surface that is not flat... think in terms of swimming where using a flat or even a cupped hand it is easier to push the water to move yourself in one direction or another.

    In the case of a vehicle a flat bottom means the upward rapidly moving gas is applied evenly to the bottom of the vehicle which means it is lifted and then dropped more efficiently, which is very damaging to the troops inside.

    With an under surface that redirects the blast sideways away from the vehicle to the open air rather than back down into the ground to lift the vehicle the effect on the vehicle is reduced.

    Remember when you are actually talking about wheeled vehicles and landmines the vehicle generally sets the mine off by driving over it with a wheel so rather than exploding under the belly (where a V shaped hull would do the most good) the mines will normally explode under the wheel and the blast will naturally be redirected away from the vehicle by the wheel arch... so most vehicles are naturally protected from mines, but not from remote detonated IEDs.

    The thing is that whatever vehicle you use... the bad guys are generally not idiots so if you start using mine protected vehicles they will simply make bigger IEDs and quite frankly if they are prepared to put in the effort of making it really big there is not much you can actually do to save your soldiers except give them a truck each and keep them separated.

    During the Vietnam war a standard VC trick was to wire up dud USAF bombs as boobytraps. Even just a 500lb bomb would result in an entire platoon disappearing in the explosion, but it was a case of a guerilla force using what it could get its hands on, and the USAF was delivering bombs in enormous numbers.

    I suspect its use will be centred around perhaps special forces and police and paramilitary use rather than Army.

    Remember the Taifun is the Kamaz product, the Typhoon is being developed by the makers of the BMP as the standard chassis for the light brigades and will be a 4 and 6 wheeled armoured vehicle for troop transport and air defence and artillery and "tank"/gun platform.

    The Taifun is an armoured truck... and look carefully at this picture... especially the shape of the floor at the base of the seats... I rather suspect the hull is largely V shaped:

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    TheArmenian

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:I suspect its use will be centred around perhaps special forces and police and paramilitary use rather than Army.

    Agreed. I doubt Kamaz's Taifun or the equivalent competitor from "Ural" are for the Army. The center of gravity of these vehicles is just to high to enable it to replace vehicles like the BTR-80.

    Special forces, Interior ministry, OMON and other paramilitaries, Yes. The Army, Naval infantry or VDV, No.
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    George1

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:47 pm

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    lorenzopopov

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    Kamaz Triumf

    Post  lorenzopopov on Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:59 am

    George1 wrote:Vladimir Putin Inspects The Kamaz Triumf

    http://russianmilitaryphotos.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/vladimir-putin-inspects-the-kamaz-triumf/

    Is this a MPAR vechile?


    Yes, it is. Several new MPAR's are being tested, including the Ural Typhoon.
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    medo

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:55 pm



    Interesting photo of Kamaz Vystrel 6x6 with army plates.
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    TR1

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:49 am

    BTR-152 strikes back!
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:11 am

    Indeed.
    It looks much better than the 4 wheeled version.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:57 am

    Should make it a more stable weapons platform and enable more weight in the back.

    And it looks good.


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    medo

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  medo on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:50 pm

    For my taste Vystrel 6x6 looks far more battlefield vehicle than Typhoon. It look lower and more stable design and protection is somewhere similar (low angle of armor plates gives Vystrel excellent frontal protection).
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    flamming_python

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:30 pm

    medo wrote:For my taste Vystrel 6x6 looks far more battlefield vehicle than Typhoon. It look lower and more stable design and protection is somewhere similar (low angle of armor plates gives Vystrel excellent frontal protection).

    The Typhoon is just an armoured truck, it's not an armed combat or patrol vehicle like the Vistrel is. It looks like a truck and has all the functionality and features of a truck.. because it is one; just a well-armoured one but even then the focus on armour is not enough to make compromises on certain that make trucks good for transporting cargo around the clock; like for example - standard windows. The Typhoon and Triumf are going to be very useful for the Interior Ministry and FSB troops in places like Ingushetia and Dagestan, where roadside bombs and ambushes are a constant threat and even some ordinary non-combat transport of men or military cargo from one place to another requires an well-armoured vehicle. Wouldn't expect them to be used in the regular army though, at least not the units concerned with conventional warfare. That's where something like the Vystrel, and of course the BTRs and BMPs come in.

    One thing I'm confused about though, is the whole situation with the light vehicles; there are too many of them.
    - Truck, minibus, etc... role in the Russian army is going to be fulfilled by the usual kaleidoscope; Kamaz, Ural, Gaz and maybe ZiL too in the future with their light truck models (their fire trucks are starting to be bought again, in any case)
    - We can safely assume that one of either the Ural Typhoon or Kamaz Triumf is going to be selected for the armoured truck tender; they are probably going to be employed with the Interior Troops and FSB, maybe some of the new Mountain infantry or whatever it is they are planning to set up too.
    - We know that the Kamaz Vystrel is already in use by the Border Guards and now it seems that they are making a version for use by the regular army too (?)
    - We have the regular UAZ Jeep in service (latest version being the UAZ Hunter model I believe). Now, what is the bog-standard venerable UAZ Jeep that is used for driving officers or whoever around, going to be replaced by? The Tigr, Skorpion-2M, Iveco Lynx??
    - It's my understanding that the armoured, armed UAZ Jeep (UAZ Hussar), is on its way out. Again, replaced by what? Tigr, Volk, Iveco Lynx, Skorpion-LTA-B?
    - MRAP vehicle; what's it going to be? SPM-3? A version of the Kamaz Vystrel?
    - BRDM-2, now just what the hell is supposed to be replacing that? Kamaz Vystrel again? A lighter scout car of some kind?

    Now the funny thing about this, is that I'm sure I missed a good few ones out. Like the French Panhard that was looked over by the Russian MoD. I vaguely remember that there was a very light scout car being assessed too (could be the Skorpion-2M I am thinking of). We have the new ZiL prototype 'Karatelia' too. And I probably missed one or two more.

    And even when we get into the heavier vehicles, the confusion doesn't lessen much. Just what the hell is Russia doing with the Italian Centuaro? If it's to assess technologies then fine, but we made the same assessments with the Iveco and now we are buying it in numbers. Other than that, we have a whole family of APC/IFV models on new chassis on the way anyway, and if we really needed a better stop-gap than the BTR-82/BMP-3, we can probably introduce the BTR-90 or whatever.

    In short - just what the hell is Russia doing??
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    TR1

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:28 am

    medo wrote:For my taste Vystrel 6x6 looks far more battlefield vehicle than Typhoon. It look lower and more stable design and protection is somewhere similar (low angle of armor plates gives Vystrel excellent frontal protection).

    Typhoon is supposed to have 14.5mm protection all around.

    I HIGHLY doubt Vystrel provides that much. I really am not a fan of that vehicle.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:43 am

    Vystrel is a BPM, or armoured patrol vehicle.

    Of course the problem with armour is that anyone can come up with a solution...

    Lets face it... cheap light RPGs are more of a threat than 14.5mm HMGs or 50 cal rifles.

    Even old weapons like M72 LAW and RPG-22 would be a much more common threat to light armoured vehicles than anti armour rifles and HMGs.

    Armour all your vehicles to stop 14.5mm AP ammo and I could produce a new anti material rifle that uses the 14.5mm calibre ammo but because my weapon is a dedicated anti armour weapon I will have a smoothbore barrel and will have a SLAP round specially made for the rifle... standard ammo would not be accurate enough anyway, so special sub calibre ammo with a DU projectile with stabilising fins and a hot propellent load and the armour will no longer be sufficient.

    Obviously it will take a lot of money to get the new weapon into widespread service and the ammo will not be cheap either, but it really doesn't matter what level of initial protection a vehicle has because over time it will need to be increased.

    In fact perhaps instead of a 14.5mm calibre barrel I could change to a 23mm calibre smooth bore barrel with a 23 x 114mm calibre weapon... the larger calibre will allow more energy so even though I will still use the same sized penetrator in a sabot I can pack more propellent and get a higher velocity and better penetration...

    BTW the lighter vehicle you mentioned was the French PVP which might have the Skorpian as its competition.

    In the case of the Mistral I felt that there was no proven and ready Russian alternative and that it was just quicker to buy from France.

    In the case of armoured vehicles however, the Russian demands for amphibious capability should limit the usefulness of vehicles like the Centuaro, so I think that will just be as a yardstick to measure the Russian equivalents by rather than a serious contender.

    AFAIK the Iveco is being purchased for non military use, specifically for Sochi 2014... which I think is kinda weird as it failed in the snow, so why buy it for a winter olympics...

    To be honest I largely blame the media for running with comments obviously taken out of context, and likely largely intended to stir the MIC into action.

    The Russian military didn't really start demanding MRAP type vehicles till after 2008 and there was very little funding offered to support the development of such vehicles. Just threats to buy foreign stuff.

    BTW 2 I suspect the Vystrel will be a potential replacement for the BRDM-2 in FSB and MVD units but will not replace MRAP type vehicles.

    The Vystrel is more of an FSB/MVD type vehicle than an Army vehicle... the Army will likely choose four and six wheel models of Boomerang-10 ultimately for replacing the BRDM-2 in light brigades.

    Remember the scout vehicle in a heavy brigade will be Armata based... though a UAV might perform the actual mission it will likely be controlled from an Armata based vehicle.


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    medo

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  medo on Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:32 pm

    Vystrel is also based on standard Kamaz truck, so its production is also quite cheap. Vystrel was designed for FSB border guard units as armored patrol vehicle based on standard truck for easier maintenance. As I know Russian army also use them as recce vehicle with Zala-421-08 UAVs. The vehicle itself is maybe not that fancy, but is for sure quite useful for all MVD, FSB and Army.
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    medo

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  medo on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:01 pm

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18660/

    Kamaz Vystrel 6x6was received by Russian Police in Sakhalin.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:07 am

    I like the look of it.

    Sort of a BTR-152 feel to it...


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    medo

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  medo on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:23 am

    http://www.ria.ru/arms_mm/20120823/729457063.html

    Bulat (Vystrel 6 x 6) is tested in Caucasus region by police and it seems it is meant for MVD units.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BPM-97 "Vystrel" APC

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:19 am

    Nice looking vehicle, and if it is based on a standard truck chassis it should be cheap to operate.


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