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    Russian Ground Forces: News #2

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:32 am

    Doesn't look like a military vehicle, its clearly civvie. Probably developed to improve key roads in Russian regions (where conditions on unsealed roads can be atrocious due to poor weather).
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:54 am



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    Anonymous Fighter

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    Russian Army Fail...

    Post  Anonymous Fighter on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:10 pm

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:55 am

    HAahahaha.... it is a bit ironic that the fail is not a fail...

    Two trucks with jet engines mounted on their rear intended to rapidly generate a smoke screen when one of the jet engines fails explosively... and puts out black smoke instead of white smoke...

    Even when Russian smoke generators fail they still get the job done.... how patriotic is that?

    Perhaps that vehicle was driven by Russian Hackers?


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    franco

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  franco on Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:34 pm

    MOSCOW, Nov. 17 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry will maintain 122-mm self-propelled howitzers 2C1 "Gvozdika" and modernize them, equipping an automated management system, the Izvestia newspaper reported on Friday.

    "The military department is discussing the modernization of the" Gvozdik "with the representatives of industry.The decision to modernize is taken in light of the successful use of self-propelled howitzers in almost all armed conflicts of recent times, including in Syria." Carnations "kept mobility in a highly rugged terrain, where heavier self-propelled guns could not pass, "the article says.

    It notes that after a thorough modernization the crew will only have to press the button, so that the system itself made the calculations, put the gun on the target at the given coordinates and determined the necessary number and type of ammunition. Howitzers will also receive shells of increased power and accuracy.

    "The military department in the near future must finally decide on the tactical and technical task for the modernization of self-propelled howitzers, the number of artillery installations to be converted and, consequently, the price of the issue." It is expected that one of the enterprises of NPK Uralvagonzavod, - the report says.

    According to the publication, "the highlight of the updated self-propelled artillery systems (SAU) will be an automated guidance and fire control system that will minimize crew participation and increase fire efficiency." The self-propelled guns should receive a more advanced ballistic calculator of the sighting complex, new sights and, possibly, a new chassis domestic production. "


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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  eehnie on Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:18 am

    franco wrote:MOSCOW, Nov. 17 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry will maintain 122-mm self-propelled howitzers 2C1 "Gvozdika" and modernize them, equipping an automated management system, the Izvestia newspaper reported on Friday.

    "The military department is discussing the modernization of the" Gvozdik "with the representatives of industry.The decision to modernize is taken in light of the successful use of self-propelled howitzers in almost all armed conflicts of recent times, including in Syria." Carnations "kept mobility in a highly rugged terrain, where heavier self-propelled guns could not pass, "the article says.

    It notes that after a thorough modernization the crew will only have to press the button, so that the system itself made the calculations, put the gun on the target at the given coordinates and determined the necessary number and type of ammunition. Howitzers will also receive shells of increased power and accuracy.

    "The military department in the near future must finally decide on the tactical and technical task for the modernization of self-propelled howitzers, the number of artillery installations to be converted and, consequently, the price of the issue." It is expected that one of the enterprises of NPK Uralvagonzavod, - the report says.

    According to the publication, "the highlight of the updated self-propelled artillery systems (SAU) will be an automated guidance and fire control system that will minimize crew participation and increase fire efficiency." The self-propelled guns should receive a more advanced ballistic calculator of the sighting complex, new sights and, possibly, a new chassis domestic production. "

    Good news for Russia.

    Self propelled artillery is to stay long.

    Heavy towed artillery wil go before.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:09 am

    Well that is interesting.

    Are they actually retaining the 122mm guns or will they follow through with the plan to change to 120mm gun/mortars?

    Sounds like they want to keep their 122mm howitzers.


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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  eehnie on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:49 am

    The rythm of updating from 2S1 to 2S34 never has been enough for a total replacement.

    It is clear that the 122mm caliber will survive around 25 years more. I explained it here. Even the 122mm ammunition remains in production (unlike the 73mm ammunition).

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:18 pm

    They would hardly shift from one calibre to another without serious testing and use in exercises.


    They have a lot of 2S1 vehicles and previously they wanted to streamline their different types of artillery so in theory removing one calibre while still being able to use all those vehicles they have would have been a good thing.

    Experience has clearly shown how valuable these vehicles can be if they are accurate enough...

    So upgrading them with systems to make them easier to use and more accurate and rapid use of their features means a crew can effectively rapidly be given a job and complete that job with little effort with most of the work being done automatically for them.

    The question remains of course is can that same job be done with a 120mm gun/mortar with all those upgrades.

    Weapons with variable charges (like howitzers and mortars) tend to be rather more accurate in indirect fire than guns.

    A gun is a high velocity weapon often used in direct fire that has a relatively flat trajectory and a fixed propellent load.

    This often means they have lighter shells but their velocity normally makes them rather useful for a range of tasks including counter battery fire because of their range.

    When shooting at close range targets that are not in the direct line of sight most cannot hit some targets because they don't elevate high enough to lob shells at them and even if they did the fixed propellent would fire the shells very high up meaning a long flight time for the projectile during which its path will be seriously effected by various winds at different altitudes and at different directions.

    A howitzer or Mortar on the other hand can use their minimum charge and launch their projectiles on a steep but much shorter path.

    It also means the round comes down at a very steep angle which is good for effect on target as most of the shell fragments come from the walls of the shell rather than the nose or tail.

    They likely replaced the KS-19 AA guns for avalanche control because ammo is likely becoming more scarce and more expensive. The advantage of the KS-19 is that it has a mount that allows it to be turned 360 degrees to engage targets from any direction rapidly without having to dig the weapon out and dig it back into place.

    The D-30 has the same advantage so it would be useful in that role.

    This suggests to me that its use by the civilian agency does not immediately mean it is to be retired... it is still a very useful weapon.


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:10 am

    For shelling IGIL/Talibs on outskirts of former Soviet Union you do not need anything better.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:45 am

    The real question however is can the 120mm gun/mortar do a good enough job in the place of the 122mm gun?

    If it can then you could eliminate an entire calibre from the inventory without losing a capability/resource.

    the 120mm gun/mortar can fire Russian and western 120mm mortar rounds and also 120mm shells with variable bagged charges and of course the 120mm gran guided missile and the 122mm Kitilov guided missile too.

    As a single mobile vehicle able to at the press of a button engage targets within its range automatically with the press of a button, then it becomes a rather interesting vehicle... with good communications they could scatter and attack point targets from different positions and then move rapidly to another fire position....


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:The real question however is can the 120mm gun/mortar do a good enough job in the place of the 122mm gun?

    If it can then you could eliminate an entire calibre from the inventory without losing a capability/resource.

    the 120mm gun/mortar can fire Russian and western 120mm mortar rounds and also 120mm shells with variable bagged charges and of course the 120mm gran guided missile and the 122mm Kitilov guided missile too.

    As a single mobile vehicle able to at the press of a button engage targets within its range automatically with the press of a button, then it becomes a rather interesting vehicle... with good communications they could scatter and attack point targets from different positions and then move rapidly to another fire position....

    Maybe the time factor? Recently Russia decided to refurbish heavy nuke capable mortars too ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:24 am

    The 122mm and 120mm weapons are now pretty much in the light to medium weigh range, while the 240m mortars and 203mm guns they are overhauling and keeping in reserve are more of the very heavy range.

    I very much doubt they are keeping those super heavy vehicles for their nuclear delivery potential... they would more likely use Iskander or Tochka for that.

    In terms of small mobile vehicles with very good fire power a 2S1 is hard to beat as long as it uses guided shells, though as I mentioned even the standard D-30 has very good accuracy for artillery.

    It is hard to say what lessons they have learned from experience in Syria and Ukraine and what their options are.

    They seem to have a lot of 2S1 vehicles in good condition and presumably lots of ammo for those vehicles too.

    An upgrade to make them rather more potent would make a lot of sense, and down the track there is the potential to change the weapon to a different type if needs be.

    Part of the logic behind the 2S34 Hosta upgrade was to upgrade all the electronics and systems to greatly improve performance... the change in calibre was a slight downgrade in max range performance, but the unification of calibres would save a lot of money and simplify the logistics by quite a bit too... instead of carrying x thousand rounds of 120mm gun and x thousand rounds of mortar bombs in 120mm calibre and x thousand rounds of 122mm gun shells, they could just have more 120mm shells and bombs.

    A less obvious advantage is that this would eliminate 122mm tube ammo so only 122mm rocket ammo remains...


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