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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

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    Tolstoy

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Tolstoy on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:43 am

    GarryB wrote:High speed in a vacuum is easy... the problem is manouvering in a vacuum, because physical control surfaces like fins have no effect as there is no slipstream for them to work in.

    Interception does not require speed even though speed is useful to an interceptor.

    Rocket engines work by action and reaction and push rockets forward simply by expelling their exhaust in the opposite direction at high speed, and can therefore work in the vacuum of space. But do these intercept missiles also have an engine like a rocket ?

    T-47

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  T-47 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:A batsman playing cricket is standing in front of the target so he does not need to move nearly as much as the bowler does the ball.

    By positioning himself in front of the target he may have to move his bat a little to stop the ball hitting the wicket... the problem is how much is the ball moving in flight and how well does the batter position the bat in front of the path of the ball.

    How many people will understand the cricket example Garry? Razz
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:14 am

    But do these intercept missiles also have an engine like a rocket ?

    To more precisely answer your original question they are already moving at very high speed when they enter empty space.

    How many people will understand the cricket example Garry?

    You don't have to understand cricket to understand a person trying to get a ball past a bat to hit a stick in the ground and a person with a bat trying to stop that ball from hitting that stick using his stick only to do so.


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    Arrow

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Arrow on Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:33 am

    So where is S-500 on Army 2017 ? Laughing

    eridan

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  eridan on Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:20 pm

    Does anyone know of a document that mentions any sort of air to ground mode for the S300 missile family? I am especially interested in naval, F (or FM) variant. Since US SM2/6 missiles are usually talked about as having a secondary mode that has them used in an antishipping missions, is there anything of sort that was ever mentioned for S300F?


    ATLASCUB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:01 am

    Arrow wrote:So where is S-500 on Army 2017 ? Laughing

    Private show... not for us plebs.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:14 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Arrow wrote:So where is S-500 on Army 2017 ? Laughing

    Private show... not for us plebs.

    this piece of shit retard for whatever reason, since the mods are incompetent to deal with these trolls, even acknowledged in last page that it is for closed viewing.  Which closed viewing has existed for years at these events (Buk-M3 was one of them in the recent past).  But of course, trolling is what he does.  He should actually be gone from these forums, but you know how shit this forums have become.

    What these retarded people like Arrow reminds me of, are the same dumbasses who thought PAK FA never existed. For years they said it didn't exist, till one day, it flew. I know those idiots were red in the face. Now they (Arrow) moved onto S-500. Yeah, of course one of the most powerful and wealthy defense companies cannot make it. Russians are incompetent. They don't know how to make one. Blah blah blah.

    Fuck Arrow.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:59 am

    eridan wrote:Does anyone know of a document that mentions any sort of air to ground mode for the S300 missile family? I am especially interested in naval, F (or FM) variant. Since US SM2/6 missiles are usually talked about as having a secondary mode that has them used in an antishipping missions, is there anything of sort that was ever mentioned for S300F?


    It would probably be something like Radar operator saying to the missiles fly this altitude and in this direction so that the missile goes onto the ship. I don't think it could track a ship with the same radars as for air target. If I'm not wrong air defence systems have difficulties to follow low speed air targets so a ship moving at 20 km/h will not be seen by the system.

    For ground Attack it obviously can't as it doesn't have the needed electronics. However S-200 had nuk wareheads and could be used against an invasion force.

    eridan

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  eridan on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:10 am

    Isos wrote:
    It would probably be something like Radar operator saying to the missiles fly this altitude and in this direction so that the missile goes onto the ship. I don't think it could track a ship with the same radars as for air target. If I'm not wrong air defence systems have difficulties to follow low speed air targets so a ship moving at 20 km/h will not be seen by the system.

    For ground Attack it obviously can't as it doesn't have the needed electronics. However S-200 had nuk wareheads and could be used against an invasion force.

    We can all guess here, but is there any document, any source mentioning this possibility?

    I mean, I guess in theory there shouldn't be a problem, with missile just given the command to go to this and this coordinate and then hope the proximity fuze will do the rest. I don't think radar would have much difficulty as it might be similar to engaging a large, hovering helicopter. There should be enough rotating stuff on the enemy ship to get some sort of return, just like with rotor on a helicopter. Especially since it's a ship in the ocean, it basically sticks out like a sore thumb.

    But does S300 even have an option to be independently commanded to go to predetermined coordinate? Or is it only a part of an automated engagement process, where computer gives out the coordinates as it sees fit, so they match the target location as seen as engagement radar?

    Also, shouldn't SARH guidance basically enable S300 missile to fly wherever the illumination from the radar hits? Since TVM guidance is basically a form of SARH, it should still work, no?
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:33 pm

    this piece of shit retard for whatever reason, since the mods are incompetent to deal with these trolls, even acknowledged in last page that it is for closed viewing.

    Mike needs to calm down.

    I am not going to ban someone for being a dick... do you really want a forum of yes men Putin worshippers that have their rose coloured sunglasses on all the time and no criticism is acceptable.

    Sounds pretty damn boring to me.

    The S-500 is a mobile ABM system with a 600km range able to engage a range of targets from near sea level up out into space including cruise missiles and satellites in low earth orbit.

    It is a fantastic system that would never have been possible if the Americans had not been so stupid as to tear up the ABM treaty.

    Now Russia will have a system that can be used to create genuine safe zones anywhere they want in the worlds most comprehensive layered integrated air defence network...

    Of course he is upset.

    And Rif and Rif-M both have secondary anti surface roles for which there were reportedly nuclear warheads.

    Even BUK has a secondary surface to surface role.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:29 pm

    yeah Garry, there is a difference between being an idiot and outright troll. If you contradict yourself within a page, then clearly the guy is trolling, not "disagreeing" or "showing a different opinion".
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:36 am

    You call it trolling, I call it being a dick.

    You say Potato I say Potato...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:You call it trolling, I call it being a dick.

    You say Potato I say Potato...

    Forget the trolls, let's ban the dicks Twisted Evil

    ... and potato-heads too

    Edit:

    And here is our new tagline


    eridan

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  eridan on Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:03 pm

    So... you're basically promoting a lesbian-only forum? Laughing
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    kvs

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:51 pm

    @miketheterrible

    Same pathetic racist drivel as in "the Kerch Strait bridge can't be built by Russians". Two bit broken record losers
    pooping their pants with hate.

    I think such bleating is trolling by definition and contributes negative value to this forum. So it is most certainly banworthy.

    In case it is not clear enough. At the present time the US has no clear advantage in missile design and manufacture
    capability over Russia. This applies to the fanacy-shmancy ABM missiles that makes American politicians think they
    can win WWIII.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:13 pm

    Funny thing about ABM system THAAD, is that NK launched a scud like missile over Japan. Was it intercepted? No. Even though they were threatened it would be. Some say "oh we knew it would fly over" but not only is that not the point, it also puts into question their fears in recent past about the "missiles just dropping cause they are junk" narrative.

    I imagine this ordeal made many in US and Japan red in the face.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:25 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Funny thing about ABM system THAAD, is that NK launched a scud like missile over Japan. Was it intercepted? No. Even though they were threatened it would be. Some say "oh we knew it would fly over" but not only is that not the point, it also puts into question their fears in recent past about the "missiles just dropping cause they are junk" narrative.

    I imagine this ordeal made many in US and Japan red in the face.

    They calculated the trajectory and saw that it would fly over a sparsely populated part of Japan and into the sea. Thus the decision was made not to intercept it.

    Smart move.

    Imagine if they tried to intercept it and failed. How much would that strengthen NK's hand? Even if there was a low chance of non-interception, the price for failure would still be humungous. No-one wants to take such a risk unless forced to.
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    kvs

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  kvs on Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:58 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Funny thing about ABM system THAAD, is that NK launched a scud like missile over Japan. Was it intercepted? No. Even though they were threatened it would be. Some say "oh we knew it would fly over" but not only is that not the point, it also puts into question their fears in recent past about the "missiles just dropping cause they are junk" narrative.

    I imagine this ordeal made many in US and Japan red in the face.

    They calculated the trajectory and saw that it would fly over a sparsely populated part of Japan and into the sea. Thus the decision was made not to intercept it.

    Smart move.

    Imagine if they tried to intercept it and failed. How much would that strengthen NK's hand? Even if there was a low chance of non-interception, the price for failure would still be humungous. No-one wants to take such a risk unless forced to.

    Real world performance of ABM systems (both US and Israeli) has been underwhelming. Let's ignore the fact that NK is not violating any laws by passing missiles above any foreign state as long as they are high enough. Suppose all the drivel about tough messages had to be actually followed through. Then there is nothing smart about this move. It makes the vaunted ABM system look like a fraud. And there is every indication that they are essentially a fraud with hyped up performance. But US politicians are rabid in their belief that they will be able to neutralize Russia's nuclear ICBMs with their ABM systems.

    http://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows-iron-dome-not-working7318
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:03 am

    If we don't hear the whining... usually about slipping deadlines, then we wont be reminded that much of the west is butthurt about what Russia is doing...

    As I mentioned previously on another threat often BS is repeated so often and not questioned that even intelligent respected people can believe bullshit.

    Franco believed... along with many, no doubt, that liquid fuelled Russian ICBMs needed to be fuelled before use because so many western sources mention it.

    Obviously without investigating that you might believe that would be true, but then what about liquid fuelled SLBMs... do they keep the missiles and the fuel separate for their three month operational missions only to fuel the missiles before launching them?

    If they can't be stored in the missiles where can they be stored?

    Lots of obvious questions, but if you find the claim in many sites why question it?

    So having people making claims here are useful to remind people of the false claims the west often makes... whether it is on purpose like Arrow to wind people up, or because they didn't know better... either way I would prefer a chance to refute stupidity.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    JohninMK

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:41 pm

    Does this layout etc look like a S-400 site?

    Samir‏ @obretix 2h2 hours ago
    Replying to @obretix

    new satellite image of suspected Russian air defense missile installation near Masyaf (2017-08-28) http://wikimapia.org/#lat=35.165240&lon=36.262740&z=17&m=b …



    rambo54

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  rambo54 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:14 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Does this layout etc look like a S-400 site?

    Samir‏ @obretix 2h2 hours ago
    Replying to @obretix

    new satellite image of suspected Russian air defense missile installation near Masyaf (2017-08-28) http://wikimapia.org/#lat=35.165240&lon=36.262740&z=17&m=b …



    Yes! This is the second Russian battery (each 4 5P85S2). Right at the site where they have some Bastion-P TELs since last October.
    Ironically just 13km from the facility which was attacked by IAF on Sept 7th 2017!
    Regarding the US cruise missile attack this is the second time that S-400 did not show force...



    Austin

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Austin on Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:23 pm

    Air Defense of Russia - Prospects and Challenges

    http://arsenal-otechestva.ru/article/903-pvo-rossii-perspektivy-i-vyzovy
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:39 pm

    @Rambo

    We already explained why. Due to system limitations, and politics, little the s-400 can do. The Israeli jet fired its AGM from around ~400km in Lebanese airspace. 48N6DM has roughly ~250KM range. Plus Russia and Syria doesn't have any agreements with Lebanon to protect its airspace. And well, there are mountains too, that Israel used to fly low. Hence why Lebanese complaint about damaged Windows.

    If you expect it to shoot down a AGM, good luck. It would have to be flying towards the site in order to shoot it down, much like last explanation for US cruise missiles which a graphic was even shown.

    But I imagine you don't care about technical details. You only care about fallacies and imaginations on capabilities of a system.

    The Russian base has its uses, but you need proper layered defense. And the AD systems are meant to protect key points. Pantsir systems would have worked, if it was at the site itself.

    I mean, if you want to see the system in action, ask Israel to attack the Russian base.

    rambo54

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  rambo54 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:03 pm

    "But I imagine you don't care about technical details. You only care about fallacies and imaginations on capabilities of a system."

    No need to get rude.
    I know all the arguments and I follow this thread.
    Cheers

    T-47

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  T-47 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:01 pm

    rambo54 wrote:"But I imagine you don't care about technical details. You only care about fallacies and imaginations on capabilities of a system."

    No need to get rude.
    I know all the arguments and I follow this thread.
    Cheers

    Thats actually important for mike.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

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