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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:The number of live fire exercises they do I am sure they can burn up the old models before they time expire.

    They have enormous stocks of old model missiles used as targets and launch practise... they wont run out any time soon.

    Thats is true. I have read an article few years ago where one Russian PVO general was saying that they now practice more often than even in Soviet times.

    Sadly we never get to hear about such events or its results or anything for that matter. The last one epic in scale that I know off was oborona-2000 or something like

    that and thats it.

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    Post  Austin Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:36 am

    They seem to have just added 2 booster one big fit and the other slender to the THAAD Kill Vehical and claims of increased range of 3x time which in case of THAAD will be 3x200 km , 600 km.

    Why cant they can do such modification to 40N6 missile , add fat booster and increase range to 2x times atleast or to 48NE3 and increase range from 250 km to 500 ?



    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:04 am

    They seem to have just added 2 booster one big fit and the other slender to the THAAD Kill Vehical and claims of increased range of 3x time which in case of THAAD will be 3x200 km , 600 km.

    Why cant they can do such modification to 40N6 missile , add fat booster and increase range to 2x times atleast or to 48NE3 and increase range from 250 km to 500 ?

    Not the same class. But they have the 40N6 which has 400 Km range.

    S-500 will be ABM while S-400 is for airdefence against Aircraft and have some ABM capabilities. The range against Ballistic missiles of an S-300 for exemple is more like 40km than 300 Km. For S-400 it's like 60 Km not 400 km. That's probably because they use radars adaptated for aerodynamic targets not ballistic.
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    Post  Austin Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:09 am

    Isos wrote:
    They seem to have just added 2 booster one big fit and the other slender to the THAAD Kill Vehical and claims of increased range of 3x time which in case of THAAD will be 3x200 km , 600 km.

    Why cant they can do such modification to 40N6 missile , add fat booster and increase range to 2x times atleast or to 48NE3 and increase range from 250 km to 500 ?

    Not the same class. But they have the 40N6 which has 400 Km range.

    S-500 will be ABM while S-400 is for airdefence against Aircraft and have some ABM capabilities. The range against Ballistic missiles of an S-300 for exemple is more like 40km than 300 Km. For S-400 it's like 60 Km not 400 km. That's probably because they use radars adaptated for aerodynamic targets not ballistic.

    40n6 basic range is 400 km but modify it and add a fat booster you can double or triple the range

    Disadvantage is as long as booster does not get ejected it cannot manover a disadvantage in dealing with air breathing target but not ballistic one where more cross range the better , they can have dedicate 40n6 for BM defense
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    Post  Arrow Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:36 pm

    40N6 missile propably still isn't service.
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    Post  Viktor Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:11 pm

    Arrow wrote:40N6 missile propably still isn't service.

    Still it was reported that it is. This could very well be S-500 missiles. Its about time it begins its testing and Russians are cheearing Very Happy thus not naming the missile Very Happy
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:03 pm

    For an air defence missile a range of 400km is fine... it vastly exceeds any previous surface to air missile previously deployed by a long margin.

    Why not 500km... why not 1,000km... well 500km range costs more money and 1,000km would cost ridiculous money and it is not necessary.

    Draw a circle with a radius of 400km around an S-400 air defence battery and you get a circle 800km across where it is dangerous for enemy aircraft to enter or operate... why make the system heavier and more expensive and less mobile with larger heavier missiles when the 600km range S-500 is on its way?

    BTW to use that extra range the S-500 needs all new much more powerful radar and support equipment... stuff that is not needed for the shorter ranged S-400 which makes it more affordable to buy and to operate.

    It is cheaper to buy and operate a second S-400 battery than to make its missiles fly twice as far... even at the speed those missiles travel hitting targets at 500km would take several minutes... it makes rather more sense to just deploy a second battery 250km away from the original system whose missiles will hit targets much quicker.

    Don't be so fixated with pure numbers... in real combat very few targets will actually be engaged at 400km because if they can detect the launch all they have to do is turn around and fly away and by the time the missile gets there they will be at 450km range or more and so the missile would be wasted.
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    Post  Austin Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:32 am

    GarryB wrote:For an air defence missile a range of 400km is fine... it vastly exceeds any previous surface to air missile previously deployed by a long margin.

    Why not 500km... why not 1,000km... well 500km range costs more money and 1,000km would cost ridiculous money and it is not necessary.

    Draw a circle with a radius of 400km around an S-400 air defence battery and you get a circle 800km across where it is dangerous for enemy aircraft to enter or operate... why make the system heavier and more expensive and less mobile with larger heavier missiles when the 600km range S-500 is on its way?

    BTW to use that extra range the S-500 needs all new much more powerful radar and support equipment... stuff that is not needed for the shorter ranged S-400 which makes it more affordable to buy and to operate.

    It is cheaper to buy and operate a second S-400 battery than to make its missiles fly twice as far... even at the speed those missiles travel hitting targets at 500km would take several minutes... it makes rather more sense to just deploy a second battery 250km away from the original system whose missiles will hit targets much quicker.

    Don't be so fixated with pure numbers... in real combat very few targets will actually be engaged at 400km because if they can detect the launch all they have to do is turn around and fly away and by the time the missile gets there they will be at 450km range or more and so the missile would be wasted.

    That thing can still work fine for air defence missile but I can also argue and say I would rather fire a 700 km range missile when the target is at 400 km and use the extra energy to work in my favour so that I dont end up coasting and loosing energy as I approach the target.

    Having said that I would still argue using a fat booster for 48N6E3 and 40N6 missile , these two are more oriented towards ABM goals the former has range of 250 km and latter 400 km.

    Now if THAAD can just add a fat booster and increase its range 3x means from 200 km to 600 km they can add a fat booster to 48N6E3 and 40N6 missile and increase range from 250 to 500 km and 400 to 800 km ( I am just counting 2x increase in range not 3 x )

    Now with that range you can to high atmospheric interception and use the fat booster energy to throw your missile up in the atmosphere and use the 2nd part of the missile or 2nd stage to fly futher and intercept the target.

    Longer range also afford you to defend a larger area else whats the point in having 40N6 with range of 400 km ?
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    Post  Isos Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:04 am

    Both THAAD and S-400 won't have problem hiting old missiles with huge RCS. The problem is that stealth is accessible to more and more countries, so the systems doesn't neeed longer range but better detection probablility.
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    Post  Arrow Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:53 pm

    Still it was reported that it is.

    40N6 is propably bigger than 48N6DM and it need at bigger contaniner.
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    Post  Austin Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:18 am

    Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:50 am

    Austin wrote:
    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    Why show your cards to the enemy? F&&k the Yankistanis and their Eurotrash minions.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:48 am

    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    Because US and Russia have completely different philosophies when showing strength is concerned.
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:38 am

    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    well, don't know. But countries confirm their ability to shoot down BM with S-300 like Iran did in recent exercises. Why no videos? Who knows.

    If your trying to insinuate that they can't shoot down BM hence why no videos, then your wasting our time.

    Edit: After reviewing videos, there isn't a whole lot of videos really depicting at what the S-300/400's are shooting at other than some of them mentioning target drones.
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    Post  Austin Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:58 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    well, don't know. But countries confirm their ability to shoot down BM with S-300 like Iran did in recent exercises. Why no videos? Who knows.

    If your trying to insinuate that they can't shoot down BM hence why no videos, then your wasting our time.

    Edit: After reviewing videos, there isn't a whole lot of videos really depicting at what the S-300/400's are shooting at other than some of them mentioning target drones.

    Yes I wonder why , I am sure they must have tested it with BM test , There was Almaz Antey report of 2011 which mentioned BM targets were used.

    May be they have very good reason to keep that closed chapter ........ AFAIK even S-300PMU2 are capable to hitting BM Target for MRBM class missile

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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:02 am

    Austin wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    well, don't know. But countries confirm their ability to shoot down BM with S-300 like Iran did in recent exercises. Why no videos? Who knows.

    If your trying to insinuate that they can't shoot down BM hence why no videos, then your wasting our time.

    Edit: After reviewing videos, there isn't a whole lot of videos really depicting at what the S-300/400's are shooting at other than some of them mentioning target drones.

    Yes I wonder why , I am sure they must have tested it with BM test , There was Almaz Antey report of 2011 which mentioned BM targets were used.

    May be they have very good reason to keep that closed chapter ........ AFAIK even S-300PMU2 are capable to hitting BM Target for MRBM class missile


    Iran tested theirs against ballistic missiles as well: https://www.rt.com/news/379427-iran-tests-russian-s300/
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    Post  Austin Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:23 am

    Nice Point , S-300PMU2 is a very capable sytem
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:49 pm

    Austin - http://tass.com/defense/935588

    They will be testing the use of their radar and satellites to track ICBM launches. At end of article, they state they will also be doing live tests of anti-ICBM rolls. Don't expect videos but they are continuously testing their systems.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:13 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Austin - http://tass.com/defense/935588

    They will be testing the use of their radar and satellites to track ICBM launches.  At end of article, they state they will also be doing live tests of anti-ICBM rolls.  Don't expect videos but they are continuously testing their systems.

    Seriously, like we never even seen A-235 drills ever, but they go on often enough.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:04 am

    Actually I remember in the 1990s a lot of western magazines criticising the Russians for their tests at airshows in the middle east and asia where real ballistic targets simulating Honest John and MRLS rockets were shot down by S-300 systems to show they work as advertised.

    Most of the criticism centred around the cost of such displays with each SAM launched costing quite a bit of money.

    The main problem with such video is that an incoming ballistic warhead is tiny and would not be very visible from the launch site.

    I rather suspect these days with UAVs used for filming exercises and drills these days that flying it to near the impact point of the incoming ballistic weapon that it could be used to film an interception... but I don't know why they would release such a video to the public as it would reveal such details as terminal interception accuracy and performance.

    Ie if side thruster rockets are used in the terminal phase or the performance of a directed blast warhead...
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    Post  A1RMAN Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:52 pm

    Russian army is gonna start getting S-500 system in 2018. (C) Borisov

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201704061453-qmzl.htm
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:29 pm

    S-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space
    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/92260/

    Anti-aircraft missile system s-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space. This was reported by the commander of the air and missile defense Lieutenant General Victor gumenny.
    "Of course, maybe today is the deadline for development work, we recently adopted a new rocket that will allow us to work including in near space, at great distances and at great speeds," he said, commenting on the possibility of destruction of objects in near space by means of systems s-400.
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    Post  kvs Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:48 am

    miketheterrible wrote:S-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space
    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/92260/

    Anti-aircraft missile system s-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space. This was reported by the commander of the air and missile defense Lieutenant General Victor gumenny.
    "Of course, maybe today is the deadline for development work, we recently adopted a new rocket that will allow us to work including in near space, at great distances and at great speeds," he said, commenting on the possibility of destruction of objects in near space by means of systems s-400.

    That's the beauty of these systems. Now the S-400 can, together with the S-500, create a real ABM shield for Russia. It looks
    like development of the missile was given top priority and would be deployed regardless of the S-500 delivery schedule.

    One hopes the nutjobs running the lunatic asylum called NATO get the message. But that may be wishful thinking.
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    Post  Austin Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:48 am

    Defense Ministry: S-400 system is able to shoot down the target in near space

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4166388


    MOSCOW, April 8. / TASS /. Anti-aircraft missile system S-400 began to get adopted missiles capable of destroying targets in near space, said Saturday on the radio station " Echo of Moscow " the commander of the air and missile defense - Deputy Chief of the Russian VKS Lieutenant-General Viktor Gumennyy.

    "Of course, maybe today finishes development work, we have recently accepted a new rocket that will enable us to work even in near space, at long distances and at high speeds," - he said, commenting on the possibility of destroying objects at these altitudes using S-400 systems.

    S-400 "Triumph" - anti-aircraft missile system of long-range, put into service in 2007. It is designed to destroy aircraft, cruise and ballistic missiles, including medium-range, and can be used against ground targets.
    modern weaponry

    Victor Gumennyy also said that the share of modern weapons and military equipment forces air and missile defense Russia to January 1, 2018 will amount to almost 70%.

    "Today on the anti-aircraft missile troops, we have about 55% (of modern weapons - approx Tass.), On radio engineering troops - around 53%, to (the target level - approx Tass.) January 1, 2018 there are very few we believe. that under the state defense order for 100% on January 1, 2018 in our anti-aircraft missile troops and radio-technical troops share of modern weapons and military equipment close to 70%, that is, we go even ahead of schedule, "- he said.


    The general said that in radio engineering troops share of modern weapons and military equipment will be at 66%, and anti-aircraft missile troops - 68%.

    "By 1 January 2021, ie at the end of 2020, of course, we will carry out the decision of the Supreme Commander and the Minister of Defense and in the Army air and missile defense share of modern weapons is not less than 70%", - said Gumennyy.

    According to him, combat ready by this date will be 95-97% of all equipment.

    Flying over Moscow


    Lieutenant-General noted that aerospace forces of the Russian Federation are able to track the aircraft over the Russian capital at the height of 100 or more.

    "If earlier we radar field in the Moscow area of ​​responsibility of air defense the border was at the level of 400-600 meters, while today we have established a continuous radar field - 100 and even below 100 meters," - said the general.


    According to him, the experience gained will be used in other regions of the country.

    "Keys to Heaven"

    Gumennyy also said that six foreign teams will participate in this year's competition in the defense, "Keys to Heaven."

    "This year we connected Algeria, Iran, and Armenia, so it will be much more difficult," - he told reporters.
    In addition, the competition will be attended by teams from China, Belarus, Kazakhstan.


    The general said that now the army is preparing for the All-Army stage of the competition "The keys to the sky", which will determine the best Russian combat crews of anti-aircraft missile systems S-400, S-300PM, S-300PS,
    armored anti-aircraft missile and gun complexes "Pantsir- FROM". They will represent our country at the international competition "The keys to the sky-2017".

    "We took into account the peculiarities of the competition in 2016, and I promise that this year it will be more dynamic and spectacular," - said the general.


    Aerospace defense

    According Gumenny, videoconferencing Russia must be prepared not only for defensive, but also offensive to defend the air space of the country.

    "The specifics of Russia's geostrategic position is that the main threat to its military security are groups of air and space attack foreign countries. The experience of military conflicts of the last decades shows that a defensive war problems can not be solved. It is typical for the aerospace sphere of armed struggle "- Gumennyy said.

    According to him, in connection with the Russian aerospace defense must be an active, mobile and carry the offensive nature. "This means that you need not only to destroy the means of aerospace attack during the flight, but also hit the aircraft on the ground, destroying carriers enemy precision weapons, including surface ships and submarines, to suppress enemy air control system, reduce the effectiveness of the constellation cosmic enemy units, "- said Lieutenant General.

    He recalled that FSI is a branch of the armed forces, able to conduct both a defensive and offensive actions. "In this case, under the unified leadership to solve a wide range of tasks for the protection of our country against attack from the air and space, the defeat of enemy targets, launch and management of military spacecraft," - said Gumennyy.

    S-500 Systems

    Deputy Commander of the Russian VKS told reporters that anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM), S-500 entered service in the aerospace forces of the Russian Federation in the near future.

    "Air Defense Forces carried out a massive re-equip troops with new air defense system. It is already widely known not only in our country but also abroad complexes" Carapace-C "and C-400. And in the near future is expected inflow anti-aircraft missile systems S-350 "Hero" and S-500, a number of promising radar "- Gumennyy said.


    According to him, all the complexes and radars designed on modern element base, with maximum automation of all processes and operations of fighting work and, consequently, high combat effectiveness, combined with ease of use and maintenance.
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    Post  Viktor Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:20 pm

    Enjoy   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

    Everything we wanted to know about S-400 summed up

    http://s400.tass.ru/tipy-ispolzuemyh-raket/

    - 16 9M96 class missiles per launcher each 120km in range and 40km in altitude.
    - 40N6 four per launcher - 400km range

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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2 - Page 36 Empty Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

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