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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:16 am

    collegeboy16 wrote:question: how much does the most common s-300/400 missile cost? are we talking a million dollars a piece or less?

    What do you mean by "cost"?

    How do you define "cost" in this context?

    eridan

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  eridan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:31 pm

    Cost could be defined as contracted value for missile production. Like MoD pays xxx million for production and delivery of xx missiles this year.

    Large and complex missiles like these cost several million dollars in the west. While surely a bit cheaper in Russia, i'd still guesstimate a single 48n6 missile to cost upward of a million dollars, possibly even two million. For comparison purposes, 9m55 rockets (smerch mlrs) were sold to the likes of Algeria and India for about a million dollars apiece. 48n6 missiles are likely to be more complex and more expensive.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:00 pm

    Going east - well during 2014, 3 S-400 regiments are scheduled for deployment

    S-400 Air Defense Systems to Protect Russia's Kamchatka
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:07 pm

    zg18 wrote:S-400 factory , many ask about missile in the foreground? S-500 , S-400 large missile?

    I should mention that this question had been answered more than a year ago on this site.

    It's a missile from the S-75 system, without its wings, interstage, and first stage, maybe undergoing conversion to a drone.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:28 am

    Great news guys, new versions of the S-400 TEL will be 25% cheaper to produce, and 35% more fuel efficient thumbsup :

    "Aviation" modernized transport machine S-400

    Specifications are improved, and the cost decreased by 25%



    Scientific-Production Enterprise "Start" to them. AI Yaskina, part of the holding "Aviation" , has successfully completed testing of a new modification of the transport vehicle (TM) for the transport of missiles anti-aircraft missile system S-400.

    Thanks to new technological solutions NPP "Start" managed to reduce the cost of new TM 5T58-2 vers. 5 25% - from 11.6 million rubles to 8.7 million rubles, as well as a 35% cut in fuel consumption.

    An important advantage of 5T58-2 vers. 5 compared with the previous modifications - halving the load on the axle, which enables the system to the S-400 to move freely on all roads, including over rough terrain. The modernization of the tractor "BAZ" and semi "MWTP" Bryansk and plants Minsk, respectively, were replaced by similar machines that are produced at the plant "Ural" and ChMZAP. New equipment will reduce production costs 5T58-2 vers. 5 due to the difference in price and reduce transport costs, since NPP "Start" and factories - manufacturers of components are concentrated in the Urals Federal District.

    Thanks to technological solutions Ural designers managed to reduce operating costs and reduce by 35% in fuel consumption. Manufacturer "Ural" has a more developed service network in Russia, which increases efficiency with operators. Moreover, the production capacity of the plant will be able to provide timely delivery trucks in the right amount, which should have a positive impact on the execution of orders for the Defense Ministry already in production volumes.

    Now being coordinated construction documentation, and then transport the machine will be accepted for service and the "Start" to receive permission for its serial production. In the near future, new transport vehicles will start arriving in the Russian Army.

    Modernization 5T58-2 vers. 5 was carried out in 2013 at the expense of its own funds.

    http://rostec.ru/news/4513688
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    RTN

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  RTN on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:43 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Great news guys, new versions of the S-400 TEL will be 25% cheaper to produce, and 35% more fuel efficient thumbsup :

    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    The major question however will be whether the S 500 can intercept an ICBM like Topol or Minuteman III ?
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    Werewolf

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:40 pm

    RTN wrote:

    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    The West and especially USA tends to overprice their equipment, like Abrams tanks more expensive than Leopard 2 tanks but are not even on par with them.
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    Mike E

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:32 am

    RTN wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Great news guys, new versions of the S-400 TEL will be 25% cheaper to produce, and 35% more fuel efficient thumbsup :

    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    The major question however will be whether the S 500 can intercept an ICBM like Topol or Minuteman III ?

    Minuteman 3? That thing dates all the way back to the 60s. 

    It can't perform advanced maneuvers, and can only deploy decoys, chaff etc.

    More advanced ICBMs, like the RS-24 and Topol-M, would prove a much more "competitive" adversary. Those are Russian missiles, so unless they fire upon themselves...

    That being said, the only way to find out is wait and see the final product.

    Vann7

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:59 am



    Russia advantage is that they have very modern state of the art Air and space defenses like S-400 and S-500 ,but also very modern
    and state of the art ICBMs .that only have months in service. So they can test their own air defenses with their own ballictic manuevarable warheads. Russia also have Kinetic projectiles with a small nuclear warhead in case their first defenses fail. So any Minuteman 3 launched from a submarine will need to bypass hundreds of S-400s or S-500s missiles attacks. And probably EMP attacks too that Russia have. before reach moscow and their nuclear defenses activate.
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:35 am

    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    Much much cheaper, because there are no western analogs.

    The major question however will be whether the S 500 can intercept an ICBM like Topol or Minuteman III ?

    It should be able to intercept standard MIRV warheads (from no matter what the missile it is launched/delivered from). It will have problems intercepting MARV warheads designed to evade ABM systems... which the S-500 is.

    BTW the Abrams uses a standard length German 120mm gun, a Belgian coaxial MG (FN MAG), and British designed armour... although a very heavy user of fuel, and a bit of a heavyweight vehicle it is a very good tank for the US and its needs and it generally does an excellent job at killing the enemy and protecting its crew.


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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    Much much cheaper, because there are no western analogs.
    .

    Especially considering what you could potentially lose if you don't have a modern and advanced IAD, the costs of such losses are orders of magnitude greater.
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    collegeboy16

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:54 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Russia advantage is that they have very modern state of the art  Air and space defenses like S-400 and S-500 ,but also very modern
    and state of the art ICBMs .that only have months in service. So they can test their own air defenses with their own ballictic manuevarable warheads. Russia also have Kinetic projectiles with a small nuclear warhead in case their first defenses fail.  So any Minuteman 3 launched from a submarine will need to bypass hundreds of S-400s or S-500s missiles attacks. And probably EMP attacks too that Russia have. before reach moscow and their nuclear defenses activate.
    dont forget s-300v4. they have iskander to test against it, so its the best of its class.
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    dino00

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  dino00 on Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:11 am

    Russia successfully test-launches long-range interceptor missile able to hit up to ten ballistic targets


    Russia has successfully test-launched a long-range interceptor missile which will be brought into service of a promising air defense missile system S-500, ITAR-TASS reports on Monday.

    "Test-launches were made in late June. All goals and tasks set within this event were fulfilled completely," the source noted.
    He noted that air defense system-producing concern Almaz-Antey was developing an air defense missile system of new generation S-500 fully in line with the deadlines set in the state-funded armament program until 2020.
    According to open sources, S-500 will be able to detect and hit simultaneously up to ten ballistic targets flying with a speed of up to seven kilometers per second and warheads of hypersound cruise missiles.
    Air defense missile system S-500 combat capabilities are planned to surpass air defense missile system S-400 Triumf currently in combat service and its US rival - a defense missile system RAS-3, the latest model of air defense missile system Patriot.

    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_07_07/Russia-successfully-test-launches-long-range-interceptor-missile-able-to-hit-up-to-ten-ballistic-targets-1363/
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:56 pm

    dino00 wrote:Russia successfully test-launches long-range interceptor missile able to hit up to ten ballistic targets


    Russia has successfully test-launched a long-range interceptor missile which will be brought into service of a promising air defense missile system S-500, ITAR-TASS reports on Monday.

    "Test-launches were made in late June. All goals and tasks set within this event were fulfilled completely," the source noted.
    He noted that air defense system-producing concern Almaz-Antey was developing an air defense missile system of new generation S-500 fully in line with the deadlines set in the state-funded armament program until 2020.
    According to open sources, S-500 will be able to detect and hit simultaneously up to ten ballistic targets flying with a speed of up to seven kilometers per second and warheads of hypersound cruise missiles.
    Air defense missile system S-500 combat capabilities are planned to surpass air defense missile system S-400 Triumf currently in combat service and its US rival - a defense missile system RAS-3, the latest model of air defense missile system Patriot.

    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_07_07/Russia-successfully-test-launches-long-range-interceptor-missile-able-to-hit-up-to-ten-ballistic-targets-1363/

    So it's official, S-500 can now intercept war heads flying at Mach 20.57, up to 10 at a time...the real question is that per TEL or per Battery. If it's per battery that's great, if it's per TEL that's simply amazing! I'm leaning more that it's per battery.

    I'm guessing that S-500 missile warheads were either HE or Kinetic which is excellent, a nuclear tipped version would definitely have even superior performance than those conventional warheads, but of course Russia signed the nuclear testing ban treaty so testing those warheads aren't really an option.
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    medo

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:47 pm

    dino00 wrote:Russia successfully test-launches long-range interceptor missile able to hit up to ten ballistic targets


    Russia has successfully test-launched a long-range interceptor missile which will be brought into service of a promising air defense missile system S-500, ITAR-TASS reports on Monday.

    "Test-launches were made in late June. All goals and tasks set within this event were fulfilled completely," the source noted.
    He noted that air defense system-producing concern Almaz-Antey was developing an air defense missile system of new generation S-500 fully in line with the deadlines set in the state-funded armament program until 2020.
    According to open sources, S-500 will be able to detect and hit simultaneously up to ten ballistic targets flying with a speed of up to seven kilometers per second and warheads of hypersound cruise missiles.
    Air defense missile system S-500 combat capabilities are planned to surpass air defense missile system S-400 Triumf currently in combat service and its US rival - a defense missile system RAS-3, the latest model of air defense missile system Patriot.

    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_07_07/Russia-successfully-test-launches-long-range-interceptor-missile-able-to-hit-up-to-ten-ballistic-targets-1363/

    Excellent. So now is S-500 missile officially in testing. I wonder, when they will show the prototype of S-500.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:08 pm

    medo wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Russia successfully test-launches long-range interceptor missile able to hit up to ten ballistic targets


    Russia has successfully test-launched a long-range interceptor missile which will be brought into service of a promising air defense missile system S-500, ITAR-TASS reports on Monday.

    "Test-launches were made in late June. All goals and tasks set within this event were fulfilled completely," the source noted.
    He noted that air defense system-producing concern Almaz-Antey was developing an air defense missile system of new generation S-500 fully in line with the deadlines set in the state-funded armament program until 2020.
    According to open sources, S-500 will be able to detect and hit simultaneously up to ten ballistic targets flying with a speed of up to seven kilometers per second and warheads of hypersound cruise missiles.
    Air defense missile system S-500 combat capabilities are planned to surpass air defense missile system S-400 Triumf currently in combat service and its US rival - a defense missile system RAS-3, the latest model of air defense missile system Patriot.

    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_07_07/Russia-successfully-test-launches-long-range-interceptor-missile-able-to-hit-up-to-ten-ballistic-targets-1363/

    Excellent. So now is S-500 missile officially in testing. I wonder, when they will show the prototype of S-500.

    How many Russian SAM's are capable of intercepting ballistic targets? Here's the ones I know off the top of my head: The new Pantsir being developed is capable of intercepting ballistic targets (on the lower envelopes of hypersonic speed), Buk-M3 will be able to intercept ballistic targets flying at 3 km/s or Mach 8.8, the S-400 is capable of engaging targets flying at 5 km/s or Mach 14.7, and now finally S-500 is capable of intercepting ballistic targets flying at 7 km/s or Mach 20.6...that's pretty damn amazing! Is there any others that I forgot to mention?
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    medo

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:52 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    medo wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Russia successfully test-launches long-range interceptor missile able to hit up to ten ballistic targets


    Russia has successfully test-launched a long-range interceptor missile which will be brought into service of a promising air defense missile system S-500, ITAR-TASS reports on Monday.

    "Test-launches were made in late June. All goals and tasks set within this event were fulfilled completely," the source noted.
    He noted that air defense system-producing concern Almaz-Antey was developing an air defense missile system of new generation S-500 fully in line with the deadlines set in the state-funded armament program until 2020.
    According to open sources, S-500 will be able to detect and hit simultaneously up to ten ballistic targets flying with a speed of up to seven kilometers per second and warheads of hypersound cruise missiles.
    Air defense missile system S-500 combat capabilities are planned to surpass air defense missile system S-400 Triumf currently in combat service and its US rival - a defense missile system RAS-3, the latest model of air defense missile system Patriot.

    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_07_07/Russia-successfully-test-launches-long-range-interceptor-missile-able-to-hit-up-to-ten-ballistic-targets-1363/

    Excellent. So now is S-500 missile officially in testing. I wonder, when they will show the prototype of S-500.

    How many Russian SAM's are capable of intercepting ballistic targets? Here's the ones I know off the top of my head: The new Pantsir being developed is capable of intercepting ballistic targets (on the lower envelopes of hypersonic speed), Buk-M3 will be able to intercept ballistic targets flying at 3 km/s or Mach 8.8, the S-400 is capable of engaging targets flying at 5 km/s or Mach 14.7, and now finally S-500 is capable of intercepting ballistic targets flying at 7 km/s or Mach 20.6...that's pretty damn amazing! Is there any others that I forgot to mention?

    There are different ballistic targets, from Grad rocket to ICBM. Pantsir and Tor could intercept small ballistic targets. Buk-M1-2 and M2 could intercept ballistic targets with speed to 1,5 km/s, S-300V and S-300PMU2 could intercept ballistic targets with speed to 3 km/s, S-300V4 and S-400 could intercept ballistic targets to speed 4,8 km/s and S-500 to speed 7 km/s. We will see, what capabilities will have S-350, but I think S-350 could have at least same capabilities like S-300PMU2 with 3 km/s. but could as well 4,8 km/s as S-400, considering S-400 also use those missiles. Depend on radar and its limitations.
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    TR1

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:48 pm

    Yeah I don't see what little Pantsir would do to any serious sized ballistic weapon. Not with the current missile.

    I am guessing the capability is more aimed at intercepting MLRS precision munitions or the like.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:16 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:So it's official, S-500 can now intercept war heads flying at Mach 20.57, up to 10 at a time...the real question is that per TEL or per Battery. If it's per battery that's great, if it's per TEL that's simply amazing! I'm leaning more that it's per battery.

    First: Only missile was tested not the whole system but nevertheless very important event took place today

    Second: Smallest operational unit is battery so whenever you hear that something guides x missiles on y targets it it is referred to battery or or even bigger regiment even in case
               TELAR within battery can search and guide missiles on their own they are still talking about battery unless specially specified.



    magnumcromagnon wrote:I'm guessing that S-500 missile warheads were either HE or Kinetic which is excellent, a nuclear tipped version would definitely have even superior performance than those conventional warheads, but of course Russia signed the nuclear testing ban treaty so testing those warheads aren't really an option.

    about 400 nuclear tipped surface to air missiles exists today within Russian PVO Very Happy as I read and those warheads are really an excellent option mainly for breaking up

    huge ECM and huge enemy fighter formations.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Arrow on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:37 pm

    So it was a test a new 77N6 missile ?
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:58 pm

    Chinese state television confirms S-500's stellar performance:

    Chinese media: Russian S-500 anti-missile system is well above the Patriot

    According to the Chinese television network CCTV, in 2020 Russia will have a weapon whose parameters all have passed all the latest developments in U.S. missile defense. This is the S-500 missiles capable of shooting down hypersonic system.

    Under heavy U.S. pressure, which does not cease to develop new missile systems, Russia has also accelerated the development and adoption of anti-aircraft systems, the most promising of which is the S-500, whose tests were successfully concluded in late June, recalls the recent report of CCTV . features really impact system. Russian media say that the S-500 exceeds in all respects to the latest Patriot anti-missile systems 3 and THAAD Americans, being able to easily shoot down the U.S. new hypersonic missiles the project Prompt Global Strike (Fast Global or PGS attack, for its acronym in English). According to Itar-Tass , the missile system S-500 may be adopted by the Russian Army before 2020. The S-500 is a system surface-to-air new generation designed to intercept intercontinental ballistic missile systems, airborne early warning and control and electronic warfare systems such as the Boeing EA-18G Growler. With a wide range of missiles 600 km range, the S-500 could separately detect and destroy ballistic and cruise missiles and low-orbit satellites and hypersonic missile warheads (with speed of over Mach 5) in the end of his career. The system is equipped with a new type of high powered AESA radar. The detection range of the radar ranges between 800 and 900 kilometers, which is 150-200 kilometers which the S-400, currently in service . Furthermore, the S-500 radar can simultaneously follow targets 10 hypersonic flying at a speed of 7 km / s, just the speed of hypersonic cruise missile Boeing X-51, the speed range varies from 1 to 7 miles per second.

    Complete text en: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/133513-china-antimisiles-s500-patriot-rusia?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

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    Werewolf

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:18 pm

    Really?

    S-300 is already superior to any Patriot system, not even counting S-400.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:42 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Really?

    S-300 is already superior to any Patriot system, not even counting S-400.

    I got a chuckle when they compared the S-500 to the Patriot System. What? Are we gonna start comparing Lamborghini's and Ferrari's with Yugo's and Ford Pinto's lol?!?! Not to mention they're not even in the same class lol!
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    Mike E

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:17 pm

    "Yes, they can." Maybe in your dream world. Yes, computers can be made MORE secure, but not perfectly secure. Like I mentioned earlier; it simply isn't true.
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    Mike E

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:37 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:A computer can be 100% secure... simply keep it locked up in a steel safe and let no one else have access to it and keep it under 24 hour guard.

    not very useful however.

    Network access makes the computers vulnerable, but also most useful.

    Back doors like wireless connections and blue tooth add threat dimensions, but at the end of the day no network is totally secure and to make it so will slow it down and limit it to the point where it will not be useful.

    I have a question Garry, it's not related to viruses but with the creation of Zirconium scramjet cruise missile, what's the likeliness that scramjets find their way on to S-400/S-500 SAM missiles? Will it allow the missiles to have increased speed and range but with smaller dimensions, or is this just pure fantasy and not applicable to SAM missile fundamental properties?

    Funny you mention that. I've been thinking about the same thing, S-400/S-500 like missiles with either Ramjets or Scramjets. As with other missiles, throwing out the Solid rocket would increase range, possibly increase speed, and definitely shrink the size (all depending on the design).

    Scramjets characteristics are still relatively unknown, so Ramjets would be the safer bet. Ramjets also allow for the missile to throttle down to around Mach 1, which could improve range dramatically.

    As for size, look at the MBDA Meteor. It has an air-launched range of over 320 km, and weighs only ~400 lb. (For comparison, the RVV-SD weighs about the same, but can only travel 110 km, albeit at a slightly higher speed.) 

    The K-77ME will have a Ramjet, and possibly a Scramjet in the future. (It has an air-launched range of around 250 km.)

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