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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:46 am

    If the global hawk knows there are S-400s present and remains at 500km range then S-500 might be the only interception option.

    Or if the S-500s are operating on their own, perhaps with TOR and Pantsir-S1 defending them primarily against ballistic threats and an F-22 is detected at 200km range then of course it will be worth a shot.

    Indeed if a B-2 is detected it will also be worth a shot too.


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    Mike E

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:If the global hawk knows there are S-400s present and remains at 500km range then S-500 might be the only interception option.

    Or if the S-500s are operating on their own, perhaps with TOR and Pantsir-S1 defending them primarily against ballistic threats and an F-22 is detected at 200km range then of course it will be worth a shot.

    Indeed if a B-2 is detected it will also be worth a shot too.
    I can agree with that...

    Same.

    B-2 should always be a "high priority" target, at least until its replacement arrives.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Viktor on Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:35 am

    Now this post is very important  Very Happy 

    as it makes a direct confirmation of what I have found and reported 5 months ago and concerns engagement channels of the S-400 system

    Remember this The Triumf system is more than two times more effective that previous systems.     Each system can attack 10 targets with up to 20 missiles. post ....

    and now look at this Karpenkovs post from "nevskii-bastion" blog LINK where he reports about S-400 system from "Engineering Technologies - 2014" in Zhukovsky.

    well here we go:  Very Happy 



    The performance characteristics:

    The affected area in range, km "aerodynamic targets"  - 3-380
    ballistic targets                                                     - 5-60

    Min. / Max. Height destroys targets, km
    "Aerodynamic targets"                                             - 0.01 / 30
    ballistic targets                                                      - 2/25

    Number of simultaneously tracked trails purposes pcs.   - 300

    Number of simultaneously engaged targets AAMS, pcs.   - 80 *

    Number of simultaneously induced missiles AAMS, pcs.    - 160 *


    * At full strength air defense system


    And oh yea two more important things:

    1. Each regimental composition in its full streingh consists of 8 (not 6 as in previous modes) S-400 batteries



    COMPOSITION:
    "Tools 30K6E "Up to 8 anti-aircraft missiles 98ZH6E


    2. Im sure you noticed the range of the system ... and is now 380km for aerodynamic targets  russia  russia 


    Is it me or did 91N6 just got nastier looks





    As if that is not enough regimental command post just got more goodies as it is now able to do all these things which previously required brigade lvl command post and the brigade lvl command post also got lvl up for an order of magnitude



    SU 30K6E designed to control the combat work:

    - SAM system 98ZH6E 40R6E
    - "S-300PMU2"
    - "AAMS S-300PMU1
    - "air defense system" Favorite "(S-300PMU2) through SU 83M6E2, S-300PMU1 through SU 83M6E
    - "AAMS" Tor-M1 "through the battery command post (BCP)" ranked-M "(subject to finalization )
    - "ZRPK" Armour-S "
    - "Additionally imparted RFCs 91N6E
    - "en-route radar output type VZV 96L6E," Enemy-GE "," Gamma-DE "
    - "AAMS customer - with more work on information technology pairing SU 30K6E radar:


    Now this is just too damn brutal thing to comprehend (number of engagement channels has grown by 40%, number of missile channels has also grown by 40%, number of

    batteries in missille regiment has grown by 25% and regimental command post itself has grown to the previous brigade lvl command post)

    and if we multiply all that meaning:

    Effectiveness of S-400 in comparison with S-300Favorit: = 1.4 x 1.4 x 1.25 = 2.45 TIMES !!!!!

    and Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov said

    The system “is about 2-2.5 times better than existing systems in terms of cost efficiency”, he added

     Very Happy  Very Happy 

    of course this is rough numbers because many more factors arises from much more capable post that would up this number by few more points too but that analysis is beyond our means
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    Mike E

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:08 am

    I'm overwhelmed with all of this good news!  russia  russia  russia  

    Now all we need is some more good news on the S-500.......
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    medo

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  medo on Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:05 pm

    So, S-400 is now equipped with big missile to have 380 km range. Excellent.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Viktor on Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:17 pm

    Now we know where first regiment will go Very Happy

    The first regiment of the newest system S-500 will cover the center of Moscow and Russia

    and in few months another S-400 regiment will start guarding the Moscow sky

    One more regiment in Moscow region to adopt S-400 systems this autumn

    after proving its worth

    S-400 systems down 3 ballistic missiles during exercises in Astrakhan region


    and size does matter Very Happy


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:28 am

    Viktor wrote:and size does matter Very Happy



    That's what she said! See the woman's fixation of the size of the tube? Chicks dig the big and long missile, especially if they're tipped with an expanding rod! Wink
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:32 am

    Oh my....

    Those tubes sure are big, are those for an S-300V system of some sort? They look too big to be the regular S-400 or S-300.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Viktor on Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:21 am

    Mike E wrote:Oh my....

    Those tubes sure are big, are those for an S-300V system of some sort? They look too big to be the regular S-400 or S-300.

    Actually these are tubes of both systems (S-400 (in front) and S-300V4 in the back).
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:44 am

    I never knew that the standard S-400 had such large missile tubes.... They absolutely dwarf those people!

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:14 am

    I was about to post that picture.. LOL  but Viktor came first..  Smile 
    I was wondering so big difference between S-300 and S-400 in Physical size.. how much larger and bigger
    the S-500s will be.. anyone have seen any diagrams comparing S-400 tubes vs S-500 tubes side by side?
    S-500s size have to be enormous wondering how they will fit on a Destroyer or Cruiser.. perhaps launched at 45 degress to the horizon?
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:42 am

    Large SAMs have always been big... it is not a coincidence that US pilots in Vietnam used to call incoming SA-2s Flying telegraph poles...

    I was wondering so big difference between S-300 and S-400 in Physical size..

    Actually the S-300 and S-400 are about the same size... in the photo below the S-300V are the two at the very back with one line of four missiles and two very large missiles.

    The smaller missiles in one row of four tubes is slightly smaller than S-300/S-400 and the bigger S-300V missiles are slightly bigger than the S-300/S-400 missile tubes.

    In Russian terminology the four tubes in two rows of two are the S-400 and S-300P missiles used by the Air Force (VVS) and Air Defence Forces (PVO).

    the S-300V with tracked vehicles and two missile types are the rear missiles in the twin and quad launcher types.

    the S-300P is called SA-10 in the west, The S-300V is called SA-12A and SA-12B in the west and the S-400 is called SA-20 in the west.

    In terms of depth perception the rearmost missiles look the smallest because they actually are the smallest, but the second most distant (twin missiles) look bigger than the third most distant which is the same size as the missiles at the front.

    If they were all lined up the same distance from the camera they would be middle, middle, biggest, smallest.

    They are big because they carry a heavy HE payload to destroy a range of targets including heavy bombers.

    The S-500 on the other hand likely has a relatively light compact payload that might expand just before impact to increase hit probability but likely also uses side thruster rockets to get it as close to the target being intercepted in the shortest possible time.

    this means the S-500 could be much smaller and lighter than the S-400... and S-300V... but it could be any size...


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:24 pm

    True, but I didn't know they were that big!
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:48 am

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/746166

    Production of S-300 is going to be stopped in 2015 in favour of S-400. Nonetheless, the sub-components of S-300 will be still manufactured for export. Export of S-400 will begin from 2016.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:05 pm

    Think how big that makes the Kirov class cruisers as their front deck has 20 angled tubes for Granit, plus rotary launchers for Rif-M which is the S-300F or the S-300/S-400 sized tubes mounted under the deck...


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:Think how big that makes the Kirov class cruisers as their front deck has 20 angled tubes for Granit, plus rotary launchers for Rif-M which is the S-300F or the S-300/S-400 sized tubes mounted under the deck...

    Yeah, and that Granit is no small missile either... - That is a testament to how large Kirov really is.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:56 pm

    Production of S-300 missiles in Russia to be stopped within year — source
    MOSCOW, August 22. /ITAR-TASS/. Production of Russia’s S-300 missile systems will be fully stopped next year, a high-ranking source in the Russian military-industrial complex told ITAR-TASS.
    This also concerns export versions, he added. “I want to stress that the production of components for S-300 will continue and will even grow in the coming years,” he said.
    The source said S-300 missiles would be replaced with a number of new generation systems. “S-400 becomes the main system for our Armed Forces. S-300 missiles remain in operation, and their production will not be halted in a moment,” he said.

    Russia's latest air defense system S-400 licensed for export

    The source said the marketing policy of Russian producers of air defense systems is now aimed at advancing S-400 to foreign markets.
    “We have had a more efficient system for several years, I mean S-400. What is the point in producing things that don’t meet today’s demands of a customer?” he asked, saying S-400 supplies abroad would begin no earlier than in 2016.
    Redirecting deliveries
    S-300 Favorite missile systems destined for Syria may be delivered to Egypt, a Russian high-ranking defense industry source told ITAR-TASS on Friday.
    Egyptian partners have expressed interest in S-300 purchases. The system may be re-equipped for Egypt in a short period of time, the source added.

    S-300 system Russia made for Syria may be offered to other customer

    If an agreement is reached, software and some units and systems of "Syrian" S-300s will be changed, he said.
    Cairo bought about $400 million worth of ammunition from Moscow over the past ten years. A considerable volume of the military enginery bought from the Soviet Union is still in service in Egypt, the source said.
    Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates may provide substantial financial aid for Egypt, he added.


    Hopefully this will mean that Russia can put more focus on the S-350, S-400, and S-500! (Missiles)

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:16 am

    IF Russia does not deliver S-300's to Syria it will be bad.. it will be they not honoring their word again..
    as they did with IRAN.. Syria paid since 2008 for S-300s missiles and still have not yet received them only
    empty promises.  Neutral 

    This is totally stupid. Even Syria ordered 12 Mig-29 in 2008.. and still have not delivered them.. And this is paid
    in advance. Russia foreign policy is at times totally ludicrous . How Russia expect to be taken seriously and countries to seek their independence if they do not support their historical allies when more they need it.

    http://en.ria.ru/world/20130809/182673359/No-Russian-S-300-Systems-for-Syria-Until-2014--Paper.html

    Syria paid for the S-300s missiles long time ago.. and now Russia is saying will not deliver them at all.. perhaps
    for fear of not annoying their "partners" in the west. this is so unprofessional that Syria have the right to demand in a court their money back with a fine.. Basically the same Russia did to IRAN ,is what they doing to Syria. Unless Russia supplied the missiles in secret , i cannot imagine how can they justify breaching their contract again.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:04 am

    Production of S-300 is going to be stopped in 2015 in favour of S-400. Nonetheless, the sub-components of S-300 will be still manufactured for export. Export of S-400 will begin from 2016.

    So for clarity the S-300P will stop production in 2015, while the S-300V4 will continue in production for the Russian Army, and the S-350 and S-400 will be produced for the Air Force.


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  medo on Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:51 am

    Vann7 wrote:IF Russia does not deliver S-300's to Syria it will be bad.. it will be they not honoring their word again..
    as they did with IRAN.. Syria paid since 2008 for S-300s missiles and still have not yet received them only
    empty promises.  Neutral 

    This is totally stupid. Even Syria ordered 12 Mig-29 in 2008.. and still have not delivered them.. And this is paid
    in advance. Russia foreign policy is at times totally ludicrous . How Russia expect to be taken seriously and countries to seek their independence if they do not support their historical allies when more they need it.

    http://en.ria.ru/world/20130809/182673359/No-Russian-S-300-Systems-for-Syria-Until-2014--Paper.html

    Syria paid for the S-300s missiles long time ago.. and now Russia is saying will not deliver them at all.. perhaps
    for fear of not annoying their "partners" in the west. this is so unprofessional that Syria have the right to demand in a court their money back with a fine.. Basically the same Russia did to IRAN ,is what they doing to Syria.  Unless Russia supplied the missiles in secret , i cannot imagine how can they justify breaching their contract again.

    It's true, that Syria order and pay for them, but Russia and Assad are in close connections, so it could as well be a deal, that Russia instead of new S-300, which they could not use against FSA and Caliphate units and few MiGs, they send spare parts and ammo for their air force and for tanks and other equipment as well as for additional ammo, food, fuel, medicines etc. Syrian air force is still very active and they now often use PGMs, which are also not cheap. After 3 years of intensive war, Syrian army could not survive against NATO supplied rebels without Russian supplies. In time of war Russia overhaul all Syrian Su-24, which are a backbone of Syrian air force now. War simply change priorities.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Austin on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:51 pm

    Andrei Demin: Sky strictly controlled

    http://www.redstar.ru/index.php/2011-07-25-15-55-32/item/17955-andrej-demin-nebo-pod-neusypnym-kontrolem


    - As is the case with the re-equipment of troops command in the run-up to create a unified air defense system, defense of the country? 

    - It is planned that the new anti-aircraft missile system S-500 will be the main tool to create strategic air defense systems, missile defense. We look forward to her admission to the troops. I hope that the first copy of the standard anti-aircraft missile system S-500 will go just to equip the troops entrusted to me. 

    The system of non-strategic missile defense in Moscow, which will be integrated in the air defense system, defense of the country, is constantly improving. Being overhauled and tests were armed missiles "Gazelle" and future missile defenses. 

    - Do you expect entry into service of new sets of S-400 and ZRPK "Armour-S"? 

    - Armed with anti-aircraft missile forces Air Defense Command-PRO already has three anti-aircraft missile system S-400, which are equipped with three anti-aircraft missile regiment. Each shelf has anti-aircraft missile and artillery battalion, equipped with a set of "Armour-S", intended for direct cover of S-400, the command post and other objects of the enemy precision weapons. Until the end, another anti-aircraft missile regiment of our command to rearm for S-400 and after the initial firings at the Kapustin Yar intercede on combat duty in the defense of Moscow. 

    - Until 2020, will create a ring radar horizon detection "Container-Z" air defense system. How are the tests of the first samples HFZ "container"? 

    - December 2, 2013, my first participation radar HFZ "Container-W" in Kolylkine (Republic Mordovia) put on an experimental combat duty. Today, it can be argued that inherent in it the possibility of using one hundred percent. The station sees all airborne targets at a distance of 3,000 km and is one of the means of intelligence and prevention of air-space attack the enemy. Our station is a few minutes recognizes the characteristics of military aircraft, dangerous for our country, even when they are on the runway in the border with the Russian states. 

    Today, technology, close to the radar HFZ "Container", owned by seven countries. But unlike their Western counterparts, our network radar HFZ will be placed not along the border and in the interior of the country, which ensures its vitality. And this arrangement characteristics of the station "Container-W" in Kovylkino allow you to control the West, and in the future strategic direction of the South. Thus increase the chances of radio station troops who control the airspace within Russia, a few hundred kilometers. 

    - How to organize pairing forces and means of air and missile defense? 

    - Armed with the command post of our association, which is now called the Air Defense Command Control Center-PRO consist of automated management tools "Bastion-FOR" and "Universal-1." They directly drive the combat use of a compound of air defense, have the opportunity to interact with the information system of missile defense. 

    - In the press coined the term "missile artillery." Can you tell us about the purpose of these weapons? 

    - On this the first time I heard the term. But I can say that the active protection systems, which are capable of destroying an aerial target for a few hundred meters from her approaching the object being developed. This new weapons designed to protect against missiles "air-to-ground." It will add all the current views and air defense.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Hachimoto on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:56 pm

    The last point means APS for artillery ?
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:13 am

    That is what it seems like... If so, it will be a great innovation.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:08 am

    Austin wrote: 

     - In the press coined the term "missile artillery."  Can you tell us about the purpose of these weapons? 

     - On this the first time I heard the term.  But I can say that the active protection systems, which are capable of destroying an aerial target for a few hundred meters from her approaching the object being developed.  This new weapons designed to protect against missiles "air-to-ground."  It will add all the current views and air defense.


    ...Wow is this an in-direct confirmation that Morfey will be used as an Active Protection System? Even though he doesn't publicly state that the advanced APS is Morfey, but for an APS to shoot down aerial targets  such as aerial launched ATGM's a few hundred meters away sounds very like Morfey and unlike any traditional APS, as Morfey will be capable of engaging targets at a maximum distance of 5 km. I remember asking the very question if Morfey would be capable of being used for the purpose of an advanced active proctection system (APS) as I suspected that a possible application could be that of a APS of a higher caliber.

    Mofey will need some kind of radar, which works perfectly with the fact that the Armata platform will be acquiring the T-50 PAK-FA's X-Band AESA radar, and it's quite possible the Armata based Koalition vehicle could have it and may'be even Koalition's Armata based logistic and supply vehicles may even have them (if it's practical and worth the extra cost). With a battery of Armata vehicles with PAK-FA X-Band AESA radars, with secure coded satellite uplinks it could act as a miniature IAD, but the real question is how will Morfey be applied to said vehicles? It seems highly unlikely for a Morfey system to be directly attached to the vehicle itself, and it seems more realistic that it will come as a trailer that could be hitched behind the Armata platform. Morfey will have a extreme short range of 5 km, so it will be a small compact missile that could be carried in numbers, I would prefer a trailer that would be capable of carrying 100 Morfey missiles in 4 tiers of 5X5 rows witch amounts to 25 Morfey missiles per tier. The top layered tier will obviously be the layer where the firing mechanism is placed, the bottom piece of the tube in the top tier will act as a retractable heat shield if Morfey turns out to be a hot-launched missile, but in all likeliness will most likely be a cold-launched missile to minimize the Infrared emissions as much as possible, making the need for the bottom retractable piece (of the top tier tube) being capable of acting like a heat shield less of a necessity. There would also be a need for a missile elevating mechanism.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Mike E on Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:10 am

    Funny, I've been thinking about the same thing... Morfey, based on its intended role, could probably be used as an "extended range" APS system. - I thought the maximum range was 10 km, but I could be ill-informed.

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